Why worry about global warming?

mzungu said:

but my Bat eared shenzi dog is better looking and in fact the best looking dog in this quadrant of the universe!

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No argument there!

Grumpy Old Man said:

Also, it wasn't an "apple" that the Eve ate. It was an unspecified fruit.

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Check!

Grumpy Old Man said:

Your dog scares me.

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Yes he does have that effect on people. Perhaps it is his tail colour?

Also, it wasn't an "apple" that the Eve ate. It was an unspecified fruit.

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A fruit none the less. All hell broke loose in heaven over a fruit Must have been some fruit eh!

mzungu said:

Yes he does have that effect on people. Perhaps it is his tail colour?A fruit none the less. All hell broke loose in heaven over a fruit Must have been some fruit eh!

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My understanding was that it was fabulous!

Grumpy Old Man said:

You forgot the millennium bit. Apparently Jesus returns and there is peace on earth for a thousand years, during which time Satan is bound up somewhere. Once the thousand years are over, Satan is released (no one knows why) and tries to start another rebellion against God. But God finally decides he's had enough and then throws Satan into the lake of fire.

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OK. But the question was what happens at the rapture....the 1000 years you might suspect, is after that.

mzungu said:

Dear me! and all this because he gave an apple to a woman

By the way; Cute puppy

but my Bat eared shenzi dog is better looking and in fact the best looking dog in this quadrant of the universe!

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I'm sorry but as a matter of theological fact the American Hairless Terrier is the best looking dog in the universe:



I think if you refer to the appropriate book of the Bible you'll see I'm right. I think it's 1 Thessalowhoosians or one of those...

thaumaturgy said:

I'm sorry but as a matter of theological fact the American Hairless Terrier is the best looking dog in the universe:

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Sorry, Thaum -- mzungu's shenzi for the win --

AV1611VET said:

Sorry, Thaum -- mzungu's shenzi for the win --

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Shenzis can take a hike.

AHT's are God's chosen dog breed.

thaumaturgy said:

I'm sorry but as a matter of theological fact the American Hairless Terrier is the best looking dog in the universe:

I think if you refer to the appropriate book of the Bible you'll see I'm right. I think it's 1 Thessalowhoosians or one of those...

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HEY PUPPY




WANNA JOIN FORCES? WE CAN TAKE THIS 4 LEGGED SPOTTED OWL ANY DAY

When the 4 legged spotted owl comes your way, who you gonna call?

THE PUPPY ARMY!

GW Its definitely not caused by man at all its all natural its the planets cooling and warming cycle that has been going on for millenniums.

Greatcloud said:

GW Its definitely not caused by man at all its all natural its the planets cooling and warming cycle that has been going on for millenniums.

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Even if we agree that it's not caused by man, can we agree that it can be aggravated (or mitigated) by man's actions?

Consider -- an errant bolt of lightning triggers a forest fire. Just because man didn't start the fire doesn't mean they are powerless to do anything about it... or that they couldn't possibly make it worse.

Consider -- an errant bolt of lightning triggers a forest fire. Just because man didn't start the fire doesn't mean they are powerless to do anything about it... or that they couldn't possibly make it worse.

Excellent metaphor, well I would want those actions we use to combat GW to be slow and considered not fast and rash. Cap and trade is scary how about we go to hybrid and eletric cars instead ?

Greatcloud said:

Consider -- an errant bolt of lightning triggers a forest fire. Just because man didn't start the fire doesn't mean they are powerless to do anything about it... or that they couldn't possibly make it worse.

Excellent metaphor, well I would want those actions we use to combat GW to be slow and considered not fast and rash. Cap and trade is scary how about we go to hybrid and eletric cars instead ?

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Continuing with the metaphor -- the fire won't wait, so how about fast and considered action?

Greatcloud said:

Excellent metaphor, well I would want those actions we use to combat GW to be slow and considered not fast and rash. Cap and trade is scary how about we go to hybrid and eletric cars instead ?

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Cap and trade is only scary to oil and coal executives. Why would you care about them?

Chalnoth said:

Cap and trade is only scary to oil and coal executives. Why would you care about them?

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There's a certain naivety to people who embrace trickle-down economics based on the belief (hope, really) that it will eventually trickle down to them.

Nathan Poe said:

There's a certain naivety to people who embrace trickle-down economics based on the belief (hope, really) that it will eventually trickle down to them.

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Yup. The whole thing is based on the idea that economics isn't a zero-sum game (which is true), which means that it is conceivably the case that if the rich earn more money, it is actually possible for everybody to be better-off (which is true). But the problem is that in practice, when the rich are made better-off, overall economic progress slows and those who aren't rich are, therefore, made significantly worse-off.

It is rather likely that engaging in strong carbon regulation right now would actually be a significant boost to the economy, as it would require a lot of investment by firms to change their business models. And a boost in private sector spending is exactly what we need right now.

Chalnoth cap and trade affects everybody. Cap and trade is not the best idea to come down the road in a while.

...................fast and considered action. Sounds great but what about a new idea we can all stand behind.

I want to embrace any new broad minded idea that is not just giving in to green politics. What about mandating all new cars be electric within 10 years. Housewives and college age people and your average joe in the streets would all be affected and could make a choice weather to buy a new car or maintain their old car. Take money from big car companies. Probably even out in the end.

Greatcloud said:

Chalnoth cap and trade affects everybody. Cap and trade is not the best idea to come down the road in a while.

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Cap and trade would boost private investment which would boost employment. It would make a few goods and services slightly more expensive, but right now boosting employment would do far, far better for far more people.

Greatcloud said:

...................fast and considered action. Sounds great but what about a new idea we can all stand behind.

I want to embrace any new broad minded idea that is not just giving in to green politics. What about mandating all new cars be electric within 10 years. Housewives and college age people and your average joe in the streets would all be affected and could make a choice weather to buy a new car or maintain their old car. Take money from big car companies. Probably even out in the end.

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Yes, well, car regulations are moving in that direction, and that's a good thing. But cars are only a small fraction of the total CO2 emissions (If I recall, all transportation put together amounts to something like 8% or so of CO2 emissions).

There is the problem that electric cars aren't useful for many things we use cars for, so it would be better to have *mostly* electric cars with the use of biofuels for the remainder.

Chalnoth said:

Cap and trade would boost private investment which would boost employment. It would make a few goods and services slightly more expensive, but right now boosting employment would do far, far better for far more people. Yes I agree about employment and new jobs still.....................not enough jobs. Also as long as the Republicans own the house it won't happen.


Yes, well, car regulations are moving in that direction, and that's a good thing. But cars are only a small fraction of the total CO2 emissions (If I recall, all transportation put together amounts to something like 8% or so of CO2 emissions). What percentage is the biggest culprit ? Off the top of your head.

There is the problem that electric cars aren't useful for many things we use cars for, so it would be better to have *mostly* electric cars with the use of biofuels for the remainder.

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I don't understand what you mean by this not useful for many things we use cars for.

Do you mean like ambulances and trucks and police cars is that what you mean by that ^ statement ?

Greatcloud said:

I don't understand what you mean by this not useful for many things we use cars for.

Do you mean like ambulances and trucks and police cars is that what you mean by that ^ statement ?

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I mean long-distance travel. Most freight transport, for example, simply couldn't use electric motors. Neither would they be good for family trips, or for workers who sometimes have to drive hours in a day. They wouldn't be useful for farm equipment, either.

But we can still eliminate the CO2 emissions through the use of biofuels, making it most definitely within our best interests to heavily subsidize the research and implementation of algal biofuels (the only biofuels that don't have significant land use offsets).

We should also stop subsidizing oil and coal. If we did that, technologies like solar and wind would be far more competitive.

Finally, if you don't think it would create enough jobs, sure, I'd agree with that. But any jobs created would be good.