A
Airman424
Guest
Does everyone here feel that Ellen White is a prophet? Does anyone struggle with that? Does belief in Ellen White's prophethood make or break one's Seventh Day Adventist faith?
Great question... there has been a couple of threads on here about this but basically there are two schools of thought, usually divided between the traditionalists and the progressives.
Personally, I don't see how you could be an Adventist and not recognize the importance of the message God gave through sister White. Most of what Adventism is, came from her and other pioneers' visions, studies and inspired writings. The misnomer of prophetess can throw people, although I am ok with that title for her when you consider the future events that she spoke of.
The guidance that she has been given for the church is undeniable and, to me, makes understanding the message of Adventism that much easier. Her writings, especially the Conflict of the Ages series have greatly inspired many to come to a closer understanding of the true nature of God's character and the work He has for His last days people.
Personally, I don't see how you could be an Adventist and not recognize the importance of the message God gave through sister White. Most of what Adventism is, came from her and other pioneers' visions, studies and inspired writings. The misnomer of prophetess can throw people, although I am ok with that title for her when you consider the future events that she spoke of.
The guidance that she has been given for the church is undeniable and, to me, makes understanding the message of Adventism that much easier. Her writings, especially the Conflict of the Ages series have greatly inspired many to come to a closer understanding of the true nature of God's character and the work He has for His last days people.
Upvote
0
Byfaithalone1
The gospel is Jesus Christ!
I think ECR is correct. The denomination views it as fundamental that members believe that the writings of Ellen G. White be seen as a continuing and authoritative source of truth.
BFA
Upvote
0
I don't believe she is essential to be an SDA. I was one for years before I fully accepted her. I found my foundation in the bible alone. It was not until recent years that I decided I should really look into Mrs White in depth as there were a few doubts that I had not fully investigated.
I went though my own first, then I went through all the hate sites and investigated all the points they raised one by one until I was convinced. Now when I read her writings they have a lot more meaning for me. Ellen White has been a tremendous blessing.
Though I don't think my walk is for everyone, I do thinks all Adventists, check that all Christians', should go through the process of testing what they profess to believe. For SDA, not only EGW, but every doctrine. If you have a doubt in the shadows you need to get in there with a flashlight and clean out the cobwebs. We don't know how close the time of troubles is but we know it's close, and we will need to be standing on solid ground.
I went though my own first, then I went through all the hate sites and investigated all the points they raised one by one until I was convinced. Now when I read her writings they have a lot more meaning for me. Ellen White has been a tremendous blessing.
Though I don't think my walk is for everyone, I do thinks all Adventists, check that all Christians', should go through the process of testing what they profess to believe. For SDA, not only EGW, but every doctrine. If you have a doubt in the shadows you need to get in there with a flashlight and clean out the cobwebs. We don't know how close the time of troubles is but we know it's close, and we will need to be standing on solid ground.
Upvote
0
Byfaithalone1
The gospel is Jesus Christ!
I agree wholeheartedly. My journey of testing started with me desiring to prove to my brother-in-law that SDAism is correct. Open-minded exploration sometimes takes you in directions you did not anticipate, but a Spirit-led journey is life changing.
Well said.
You and I would probably agree that -- hopefully -- the solid ground on which we're standing is Jesus Christ (and not our own fallible understanding of doctrine).
There certainly is enough hatred to go around whenever this topic is discussed and -- sadly -- there are "hate sites" on both sides of the table.
BFA
Upvote
0
Amen brother.
I've always believed that God has never fully made know the truth. We'll get the full picture when Christ returns for us. There are a time and place for everything and God is committed to meeting us where we are. God comes down to our level, where we are and lifts us up. God never condemned OT patriarchs for many of the things they did, multiple wives as an example. I believe that today we have the greatest treasury of truth available at our fingertips in the bible. Much of it however, must be mined with hard work and diligence. I honestly believe that it is God's will that we find truth through hard work. Some of it is spoon fed to us but we must really dig to get the bigger picture. Hard work is God's way for us to find truth. The worst problem I have is letting my humanity, self-serving nature, pride, stubbornness, get in the way. It's really, really, really hard to let go of self, but it's amazing how much easier it is to see truth when I can, and how impossible it is when I cannot.
Upvote
0
Ok, so ANY denomination should be able to stand on God's Word alone. I believe it was EGW herself, that said if we read our Bibles as we should, her writings would not be necessary. I believe her to have had a special annointing and a gift of prophecy. I don't believe her to be THE Gift of Prophecy, becuase that is not biblical.
Upvote
0
SoldierOfTheKing
Christian Spenglerian
- Jan 6, 2006
- 9,230
- 3,041
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Presbyterian
- Marital Status
- Married
How do we read our Bibles as we should? By reading them as EGW read hers? Was there ever anybody who read the Bible without some kind of preconceived assumptions? How else do different people come to such different conclusions after reading the same Bible?
If you take EGW out of SDA, what do you have left?
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Actually, sister White was only one of many early pioneers that formulated the Adventist doctrine.... yes she expounded upon it and was shown greater insight into the Biblical narrative but was not soley responsible for it.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Right ECR.
SOTK, when you take EGW away, what you have left is the living Word of God, right? What else should anyone need? The messenger is in no way responsible for the message, they just deliver it. We focus way to much on the messenger, believing that messnger to be as great as the message or even the Orginator of the message.
We get different denoms/beliefs, because everyone focusses on certain aspects of the Bible, and then build their doctrine around them.
When we qare indivudals read the Bible, even with the guiding of the HS, our own comprehension and life experiences play a hug part in how er interpret what we are reading, there is no way around it. But I believe this is one way God relates to us as individuals. That is what makes the Bible so wonderful, a living Word, in that it alone can minister to anyone where right where they are. it is just full of stories of God doing exactly that.
now, one thing that might get in the way some of the time is the participation in Organized denoms. they tend to operate from a position that they have already interpreted everything for you and you will come to same conclusions if you we what and how we tell you. So it does set up conflicts when one earnestly serches an does not come to different conclusions. Organized religion doesn't take that to well. Depending on the position of the member questioning words like disfellowship and apostasy come into play. They are definteily not big on "new light".
SOTK, when you take EGW away, what you have left is the living Word of God, right? What else should anyone need? The messenger is in no way responsible for the message, they just deliver it. We focus way to much on the messenger, believing that messnger to be as great as the message or even the Orginator of the message.
We get different denoms/beliefs, because everyone focusses on certain aspects of the Bible, and then build their doctrine around them.
When we qare indivudals read the Bible, even with the guiding of the HS, our own comprehension and life experiences play a hug part in how er interpret what we are reading, there is no way around it. But I believe this is one way God relates to us as individuals. That is what makes the Bible so wonderful, a living Word, in that it alone can minister to anyone where right where they are. it is just full of stories of God doing exactly that.
now, one thing that might get in the way some of the time is the participation in Organized denoms. they tend to operate from a position that they have already interpreted everything for you and you will come to same conclusions if you we what and how we tell you. So it does set up conflicts when one earnestly serches an does not come to different conclusions. Organized religion doesn't take that to well. Depending on the position of the member questioning words like disfellowship and apostasy come into play. They are definteily not big on "new light".
Upvote
0
ricker
Regular Member
In my experience there are many churches that are not even close to being as dogmatic as Adventists are about specific doctrine. The church I go to doesn't seem to really care if you believe that upon death we go to heaven looking down, or are in a state of "being with God" until the reserrection. It doesn't seem to matter if you think creation was in seven literal days, or in an undefined period of time in which God was in control. It doesn't seem to matter if you belive the Sabbath is now celebrated on Sunday,or you believe the Sabbath is a thing ended at the cross. I could go on......
It doesn't mean we don't have core beliefs, it just means we agree on the basics that God loves us enough to send His Son to die on the cross for our sins and we are saved by grace through faith in Him. As such we live lives trying to show the world this love. I would hope Adventism could be this way, too.
Upvote
0
On two of the issues you cited, the state of the dead and time of creation, are to me, fundamental to understand so as to not be deceived.
With the state of the dead, if you understand and believe the majority of Bible text that say death is a sleep and that the dead know not anything, then we cannot be deceived with Satans attack through spiritualism. Believing in dead spirits or messages from loved ones can be used by the deceiver to draw us away from God and what He teaches.
With the creation timeline, the worlds understanding is that evolution is the only way the universe coud have come into existance and sadly alot of the church now believes, at least in part, this line of reasoning. This puts man (science) up against God and just because our finite minds cannot conceive of a lteral 6 day creation we err on the side of 'logic'. I don't know about you but the God I serve can do anything and if He said He spoke the universe into existance in 6 days, then how arrogant would it be for me to say othewise.
Not only this, but faith in science is what causes people to believe without question the wisdom of man eg: that it's global warming that's causing the increase in natural disasters when we know these are signs that Jesus spoke of almost 2000 years ago. Wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that Satan would try and divert our minds from prophesy and focus it on man's ideas?
Upvote
0
Byfaithalone1
The gospel is Jesus Christ!
This is my experience as well.
Although theological bullying can be found in any group, some groups are more suseptible than others. These groups prefer the "my way or the highway" approach.
BFA
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
This is true, BFA. One thing that I noticed, as I began to branch out and watch and listen to other denoms is that some are more likely to refer to you a good Bible-based church, where SDAs will only refer you to your local SDA church. At first I thought to myself, "They are not going to refer them to "their" local church or one that shares the same dcotrinal beliefs?" Then I remembered that all are not set up as the SDA system is, and as I listened more, thought this might be actually a good thing....LOL!!!
Now, all of this was just a shock to my lil' ole' SDA self. As, was stated earlier, it is most difficult to really read the Bible or even move from one's first biblical indoctrination, especially, if like me, you were indoctrinated(taught) from birth, before i could read, etc. i learned that other denoms had doctrines, and endtime doctrines that they actually took seriously as biblically sound. I was basically taught that folks were in those other denoms, because they did not want to keep ALL the commandments(actually meaning the 4th commandment) and they all were bascially false because they were "waundering of the beast" by worshipping on Sunday. And then there were the holy rollers who were only putting on a show unwittingly worshipping satan. Then there were the ones who spoke in tongue, who basically had just doused their gasoline underwear with the final amount of fuel needed to send them straight to hell. LOL!!!
Luckily for me, it was only a mild shock. I didn't grow up in the strictest of SDA homes, but it was consistent. we attended SS and church each and every week, and were active in the church. For the most part followed all SDA doctrines.. However, my uncle was one of the renowned musicians in the gospel circles here in the Bay Area, so we always went to programs, muscials, other churches to visit, etc. My Mom always played gospel greats such as James Cleveland, Mahalia Jackson, Five blind boys, Shirley Ceasar, the Hawkins family(well, let's just say they didn't abandon their Baptist gospel roots when they left St. Johns Baptist church to become SDA LOL!!!), along with SDA favorites like Walter Artise, King's Heralds, etc. My biggest chock we that they actually had biblical doctrines and took them seriously. My bad, but I have since learned better.
The question was asked what would be left if we took EGW out of Adventism. The answer is we should stillahve Adventism, with biblically based doctrine. If we cannot teach our doctrines without teaching EGW then they are not biblically based, they are EGW based with some biblical references........Is that what we are supposed to be doing?
Now, all of this was just a shock to my lil' ole' SDA self. As, was stated earlier, it is most difficult to really read the Bible or even move from one's first biblical indoctrination, especially, if like me, you were indoctrinated(taught) from birth, before i could read, etc. i learned that other denoms had doctrines, and endtime doctrines that they actually took seriously as biblically sound. I was basically taught that folks were in those other denoms, because they did not want to keep ALL the commandments(actually meaning the 4th commandment) and they all were bascially false because they were "waundering of the beast" by worshipping on Sunday. And then there were the holy rollers who were only putting on a show unwittingly worshipping satan. Then there were the ones who spoke in tongue, who basically had just doused their gasoline underwear with the final amount of fuel needed to send them straight to hell. LOL!!!
Luckily for me, it was only a mild shock. I didn't grow up in the strictest of SDA homes, but it was consistent. we attended SS and church each and every week, and were active in the church. For the most part followed all SDA doctrines.. However, my uncle was one of the renowned musicians in the gospel circles here in the Bay Area, so we always went to programs, muscials, other churches to visit, etc. My Mom always played gospel greats such as James Cleveland, Mahalia Jackson, Five blind boys, Shirley Ceasar, the Hawkins family(well, let's just say they didn't abandon their Baptist gospel roots when they left St. Johns Baptist church to become SDA LOL!!!), along with SDA favorites like Walter Artise, King's Heralds, etc. My biggest chock we that they actually had biblical doctrines and took them seriously. My bad, but I have since learned better.
The question was asked what would be left if we took EGW out of Adventism. The answer is we should stillahve Adventism, with biblically based doctrine. If we cannot teach our doctrines without teaching EGW then they are not biblically based, they are EGW based with some biblical references........Is that what we are supposed to be doing?
Upvote
0
ECR,
Matt 21:12-16
12 And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,
13 And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.
14 And the blind and the lame came to him in the temple; and he healed them.
15 And when the chief priests and scribes saw the wonderful things that he did, and the children crying in the temple, and saying, Hosanna to the Son of David; they were sore displeased,
16 And said unto him, Hearest thou what these say? And Jesus saith unto them, Yea; have ye never read, Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise? KJV
Mark 11:15-17
15 And they come to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves;
16 And would not suffer that any man should carry any vessel through the temple.
17 And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves. KJV
Job 42:10
10 And the LORD turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends: also the LORD gave Job twice as much as he had before.KJV
It is better to obey (pray for your enemies) than to sacrifice (worship God in Jesus Christ). Sacrifice is a good beginning. Prayer is a better ending. This prayer is built on the foundation of the worship of the Father in his Son Jesus Christ. This prayer is the sealing of the Spirit.
Yes, the Lord sets the terms of salvation. He gives the grace to fulfill the terms; from the least obedience to the greatest obedience; from worship to ministry. The worship of Jesus Christ is the gate with the sword that turns every which way. Ministry in the newness of the spirit is the tree of life. The worship of Jesus is the gate into the sheepfold of grace and the ministry in the newness of the spirit, wherein are the fruits from the tree of life in the midst of the river and on both sides of the river, as we suffer tribulations in serving and doing good to the family of Jesus.
We worship Jesus and the Father as we are converted into children in the Lord and we are invited to the Lord's table. We minister in the spirit of Jesus when we are converted from children into men and he clothes us with his armor. We are the Lord's workmanship, he brings this work of conversion in his own time, the fullness of time with each of us and with all his Body.
Luke 22:31-32
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren. KJV
Joe
Upvote
0
Joe, can you please offer some expaination of what you were trying to say in this post? Thanx...
Upvote
0
ECR,
First, unfold the significance of the "bully" aspect of God's worship that you stated in your previous post.
Joe
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Similar threads
