Now I am really asking for Bible verses to be quoted at me. Where and how did Jesus taught that marriage was only and immutably for man and woman?polycarp_fan said:
What Jesus taught about marriage
- Thread starter Freodin
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Where didn't he? You are arguing with a statement someone made. Pick up a Bible and read the red lettered areas. Develope premises to support whatever argument you want to make.
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lawtonfogle
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Someone lied to you. See, Jesus taught about the first man and woman whose birth (creation) names were Adam and Eve (in our tongue, but you can translate if you must), thus Jesus actually taught about marriage only between a man who name in our tongue is Adam and a woman whose name in our tongue is Eve. You know, since my dad's name isn't Adam, it isn't possible for me to have been born from a real marriage. Actually, I would say almost every marriage needs to be annulled because of this.
Of course, most people want to continue living in their sin, so they are going to disagree. To them, I say, read the Bible. It was Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve, not Joe and Jill, not (not Adam) or (not Eve).
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Quite high, I´d say. You forgot the smilie... but those people at FSTDT are prone to ignore such details regardless.
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lawtonfogle
My solace my terror, my terror my solace.
Should see the other quote that got me on there the first time. I was misquoted, others even pointed it out in the comments.
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I guess you mean Matt 19:3-10? If so, then please point out to me where Jesus in these verses states that marriage is only and unchangably for man and woman?
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selfinflikted
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The "red letter" portions of the bible always bothered me. They are supposed to represent when Jesus was talking, versus someone else. Now, it is my understanding that the bible wasn't written until several generations after Jesus' passing. Surely, none of you believe that exact quotes from Jesus survived long enough to make it into the bible, exactly they way he spoke. I mean, it's not like a scribe was following him around recording his words at the time, right?
Be careful what you try to pass off as "Jesus'" or worse yet "God's" words.
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Verv
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Matthew 19:5
and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh' ?
Yeah, and Matthe 19 hammers this home pretty well.
But then you get cats like selfinflicted who think they are oh, so smart to point out that there were no scribes following around Christ...
I think you do not understand oral traditions, and I think furthermore you put far too much doubt in the ability of people to witness something and report back on it.
It's not like these guys are recalling insignificant conversations with a random dude... These guys were recounting the most important stories of their personal savior... Do you really doubt their words that much?
Mark 10 also covers what is said in Matthew 19.
and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh' ?
Yeah, and Matthe 19 hammers this home pretty well.
But then you get cats like selfinflicted who think they are oh, so smart to point out that there were no scribes following around Christ...
I think you do not understand oral traditions, and I think furthermore you put far too much doubt in the ability of people to witness something and report back on it.
It's not like these guys are recalling insignificant conversations with a random dude... These guys were recounting the most important stories of their personal savior... Do you really doubt their words that much?
Mark 10 also covers what is said in Matthew 19.
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Colour me stupid, but I read that verses before and several times again... and I don´t see what you see here.
The question that was asked of Jesus was about divorce: can a husband divorce his wife.
So the situation is already set: we are talking about a standard man/woman marriage.
And Jesus says "No, he should not. If man and woman are married, it is God´s will that they are and that they should stay."
But nowhere does it say "Only man and woman must be married, and no one else can."
The question that was asked of Jesus was about divorce: can a husband divorce his wife.
So the situation is already set: we are talking about a standard man/woman marriage.
And Jesus says "No, he should not. If man and woman are married, it is God´s will that they are and that they should stay."
But nowhere does it say "Only man and woman must be married, and no one else can."
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chingchang
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You are correct. Jesus did not teach that only a man and woman can marry. There would have been no reason for him to teach that. Men weren't trying to marry (or didn't want to marry) other men back then. Marriage was not about love...it was about property rights.
Can you make your point?
Hugs,
CC
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brightmorningstar
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To Freodin,
In fact Jesus refers to Gen 2 where God created woman for man and Jesus quotes the scripture that in the beginning God made them male and feamle; it was for this reason that a man shall leave his father and mother and be united with his wife and the two shall become one flesh.
So the reason God made male and female is to be united.
So as to your question, where could any other combination come in instead of the one God created and the purpose He created it for?
I respect you question but if you dont believe the Bible why would you be concerned whether you think its right or not or what it says?
Why what is the point of what Matthew says if you are only looking for what it doesn't say?
In fact Jesus refers to Gen 2 where God created woman for man and Jesus quotes the scripture that in the beginning God made them male and feamle; it was for this reason that a man shall leave his father and mother and be united with his wife and the two shall become one flesh.
So the reason God made male and female is to be united.
So as to your question, where could any other combination come in instead of the one God created and the purpose He created it for?
I respect you question but if you dont believe the Bible why would you be concerned whether you think its right or not or what it says?
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I simply wonder about the motivation of certain people. They are mightily concerned that something might happen and do everything to prevent it... but when these same motives are questioned or applied to different topics, they... well, disappear.
In this case here, we have people that state that Jesus set marriage as man and woman exclusively and without exception. As you have admitted, this is incorrent. Jesus makes a statement about marriage between man and woman and how such a union should be handled.
Now you go on and state that "God´s purpose" is the combination of man and woman. But that ignores every lifestyle that does not aim at such a union. Not only the religiously motivated ones, but every man and woman who choses not to get married at all. This, too, is against "God´s purpose". But no one cares. There is no Christian initiative to make marriage, according to God´s plan, compulsory. Why not?
In another recent thread, I asked about the toleration of non-christian religions. According to God´s plan, humanity was created to worship him. But no one cares to stop other religions in your country from adhering to their faiths. Why not?
I´d say that all these are not questions of right or wrong at all... these are questions of power. Those who try to legislate their religiously motivated views know quite well how far they can go, and what kind of opposition they would face. So they settle for the fights they are sure they will win.
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OphidiaPhile
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I could not care less what the Christian concept of marriage is, if I get married it will have nothing to do with religion whatsoever.
It would seem to me that if you really cared about the Christian concept of marriage you would much prefer a homosexual marriage of two people that act in accordance with your ideas that two atheists who will never behave in a manner acceptable to you.
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Verv
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I do not know about that...
I do not really want to compare what is better or worst...
It would make me sound... Stupid.
Because you have a right to worship another God; you do not have the right to pervert our social institutions and flip the language we have on top of its head.
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Actually this was precisely the one other time in Western history that men were marrying other men. Roman law recognized certain rights concerning marriage, especially those concerning a spouse's right to inherit property, and in the late Republic and early Empire there were a lot of same-sex marriages.
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Verv
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Well how do you feel about this, Ollie, now that we have provided Bible passages referring to marriage as a union between a man and a woman?
And furthermore, the Jews were resistant to Roman law and in the Jewish tradition homosexuality was punishable by death. I doubt Christ would say He was there to fulfill the Law of Moses if He was allied to Roman law.
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