Pre Tribulation Rapture and a majority of Christians being mislead

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JesusServant

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I know this has been talked about at some point but I'm new...  What has been on my heart lately is a concern for true believers that all this fiction as of late and the temporal blessing lovers (TV evangelists) on TV are preparing Christians wrongly.

Why is this important?  It's not a salvation point right?  Correct, however... imagine that you believe with all your heart in a rapture before the great tribulation and as you see the great tribulation unfold, you're still here.  You have accepted Jesus as your saviour and you live your life in a manner befitting the commandments and examples set forth by Jesus Christ.  But here you are, "left behind".  That is EXACTLY where satan wants us.  To feel "left behind" and to question God's acceptance of us through his Son and His love for us.  This deception is very dangerous.  "Pre-tribbers" say things like, "what, you expect God to put some protective 'bubble' around us and keep us from the harm of the great tribulation?"  And to that I wonder if they've ever read Daniel and the story of Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego when God allowed them to be thrown in the fire but preserved them in it.  Yes, this is symbolic of the "valley of life" or "trials of fire", but it also happened and I believe it. 

Here are scripture pre-tribbers can't explain OR they make up such things as a second rapture or a second (which would actually be a third) return of Christ.  And it gets thicker and thicker as they try to explain it away...

In my signature is Jesus Himself talking about his return in Matt: 24 so I won't repost it in the post, but this is VERY important to debunk the pre-trib fairy tale that tells the flesh what it wants to hear...

Also, pre-tribbers say that the Church (body of Christ - not a building) is not mentioned after the letters to the churches by Jesus, after Revelation 3... oh yes it is...  who are the "saints" in the next passage, if not the true believers in Christ Jesus...

Rev 13:4     And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?  And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty two months.


Rev 13:6     And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. Oh, and BTW... who is John warning about the "mark of the beast"?  If we're not here to deny it, no one will deny it.  I don't pretend to know everything about the Bible, in fact, the more I learn the more I realize I do not know or will understand in this lifetime.  I would love to believe in the pre-trib fantasy as well, but there is no proof of such an event in the Bible PRIOR to the tribulation.  When Jesus comes back THAT begins the millennial reign.  If Jesus takes us away when he returns then explain this...

Rev 22:12  And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.


His reward is with Him, so why would we leave?


God bless
 

AndOne

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I also do not agree with the concept of a pre-trib - or mid-trib rapture.

Your concerns seem to voice that of many of those who do not agree with the rapture. Personally I do not think it is something that needs to be too cumbersome - and I have no issue with a brother in Christ who chooses to believe in this "fairy tale" (as you put it).

I honestly don't think that those who are truly believers will be deceived - I believe the Holy Spirit will convict the true believer when the right time comes that the rapture was a part of someone's imagination.

I've always contended that if there is a rapture - then great! - I was wrong - but I know in my heart to expect the worst.

Concernging the doctrine - I believe there is some scriptural merit to it - but it is so vague that it is very possible that the rapture can easily be a misinterpretation. That is why I choose not to accept it. I believe that such an event would be explicitly defined in the prophecies and not open for interpretation. Granted - most of Daniel/Revelation is symbolic and hard to pinpoint - but a mass disappearance of believers would be easy to spot - in my opinion.
 
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BigEd

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I am too very skeptical about a pre-trib rature...
for two reason as i see.
one, There is tribulation already happening in indonesia, in china and in the "muslim" world, Christians are dieing for the faith (more Christian have been killed for their faith in the last hundred years then all the rest of christinan history combined).
second, the on going pattern through the bible is that God delivers his people through tribulation and trials , Not from them.
 
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JesusServant

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And I expected to get attacked, this is refreshing indeed :)  One way I think we'll know when Christ comes back and not the "false prophet" spoken of in Revelation is...

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the <B>twinkling</B> of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

We will be "changed".&nbsp; If I'm still the same then I know Jesus hasn't come.&nbsp; I also agree with you guys, the Holy Spirit is the only thing that would keep us from being deceived by others.&nbsp; It is easy to twist scripture and with technology, someone could make the "sign of the Son of man" in the heavens appear with satellite or in other ways, which I would think that sign would be the cross.&nbsp; So, as for the world today, we could easily be deceived if not for the Holy Spirit itself, because people can twist scripture and have.

God bless you all...
 
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jenlu

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Originally posted by Behe's Boy


I've always contended that if there is a rapture - then great! - I was wrong - but I know in my heart to expect the worst.&nbsp;


Don't expect the worse.&nbsp; Your Savior and Lord is Jesus Christ.&nbsp; He is King of Kings and Lord of Lords.&nbsp; The Master and Ruler of the universe is on YOUR side.&nbsp; Expect the BEST!!!
 
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rollinTHUNDER

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Mathew 24 is mostly referring to the tribulation, not the rapture that you post-tribbers like to combine with the second coming. In Matt. 24:3 the disciples didn't question Jesus about being "caught up", but rather about His second coming. The coming has signs, but them being caught up will come upon then suddenly, like a thief in the night. Also, they asked this question before the mystery of the rapture had even been revealed to them, so at the time, they had no knowledge of the rapture whatsoever. It was Paul that revealed to them this mystery, but Paul wasn't even a believer at this time. Paul did not believe until after Christ had already ascended to heaven. But the disciples asked Jesus this question before Christ was even crucified. They didn't even know that He was going to die for the sins of the world, even after Jesus repeatedly warned them. So, they could have only been talking about the second coming then, and not the rapture that you pre-tribbers like to combine with the second coming. There now, that kinda sheds a different light on the subject doesn't it??
So it will still remain a mystery. Cheers!!
 
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Wildfire

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I agree; the "Left behind" series will be damaging to those who do not know the truth, but remember what the disciples told us: we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against SPIRITUAL WICKEDNESS IN HIGH PLACES.

Many saints will live THROUGH the tribulation. Keep your garments! Put on your whole armour! This is a spiritual message for the saints (us) to remain righteous, to avert our eyes from evil, to stay on the right path with God during this time of darkness. (spiritual darkness) Keep your lamps burning. God is searching Jerusalem (not the country! but those who keep the testimony of Christ) with "candles". He is looking for his people. There are many chapters in the book of Revelation that express this, but we must look beneath the words to understand their true meaning.

Someone mentioned the mark of the beast. It is not literal, not a microchip, or the numerology of A man. But MAN. By Gods own wisdom we can learn that the forehead is our mindset. Our thoughts. When we are loyal and faithful to God, our MIND is filled with the word of God, or the testiment of Jesus Christ. This rules or decisions and our life. This is the SEAL or MARK of Gods chosen, because our forehead is where our spiritual lights shine.

However, when we worship or follow after something that is not from God, spiritual DARKNESS dwells in our mind. This is the SEAL or MARK of the beast, because our thoughts are filled with worldly, earthly, sensual things. The beast is the opposite or anti- of God.

This also applies to the right hand, which is dominant in most people. The right hand rules our actions; we write with it, we react with it, we build, we work, we choose with it, and we sin by it. (if your right hands offends thee, cut it off!) The hand and the mind work together; this is why it is portrayed in the book of Revelation as being a powerful, seducing strong MARK, because it CAUSETH man to worship the beast (world) and turn from God. It is not forced.

Love not the world or the things in it, Jesus warns. The choice is up to all of us.
 
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rollinTHUNDER

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Wow!! It is so sad to see the total lack of faith. So many are already deceived, even before the great "falling away". This forum used to be filled with people of faith, but now, it appears to be mostly scoffers. No doubt it is the Preterists who started this, and I wouyldn't be a bit surprised to findout that all these scoffers are really secret preterists carrying out another evil plan. As you can tell, I don't spend too much time here anymore. There's just too many doubters and humanists. I'm outta here!! This is depressing. I got to move on to higher ground. See ya
 
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JesusServant

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Originally posted by rollinTHUNDER
Wow!! It is so sad to see the total lack of faith. So many are already deceived, even before the great "falling away". This forum used to be filled with people of faith, but now, it appears to be mostly scoffers. No doubt it is the Preterists who started this, and I wouyldn't be a bit surprised to findout that all these scoffers are really secret preterists carrying out another evil plan. As you can tell, I don't spend too much time here anymore. There's just too many doubters and humanists. I'm outta here!! This is depressing. I got to move on to higher ground. See ya

?&nbsp; I'm so confused...
 
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JesusServant

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rollinthunder, I hope I haven't offended you.&nbsp; I just giving some scripture and why I don't think we'll be raptured as early as people today believe, and that's dangerous, in MY opinion.&nbsp; We need all the God loving people we can get to sort this stuff out.&nbsp; Please don't leave :(
 
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new2calvin

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So what happens if there is no rapture? That will rock your beliefs to the core. I think if you don't believe in the rapture, it's a win, win situation. If the rapture doesn't occur, well your not suprised. Although if it does happen, which I believe it won't, since I'm a believer I'll be saved.
 
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BigEd

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Well I am Not a preterist .. I am a post-trib futurist.

Still, said and done, I feel all the current views of escatology have there problems ( including post-trib, but by far post-trib has the least). I still try to remain open minded about escatology. I will wait on and trust the Lord run history.
 
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Steffie

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What I do not understand is how is a pre tribber deceived if the rapture does not happen when they believed?&nbsp;

How many times does a christian get "stuck" on a "belief" about certain biblical issues....lets say baptism, and does not believe how others wish them to?&nbsp; Say that it is GOD's TRUTH that baptism is NOT required to be saved, but someone believed that is was?&nbsp; Will that hender their WHOLE belief in Jesus because they had "a/some" thing wrong?

No one can claim to know the TOTAL truth of the bible, cover to cover.&nbsp; We all are still in the learning process and many will be FAR from knowing ALOT of the truth, but one thing I do know, the HS convicts us and shows us the way,even if He has to wait for us, He guides us down the road and we learn more each time.&nbsp;

Just some thoughts :)

Steffie

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JesusServant

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Originally posted by Evee
Would someone tell me what a preterist is?

I probably should know. :o&nbsp;

&nbsp;I don't though.&nbsp; Evee

A preterist, I believe, is someone who thinks the book of Revelation already took place.&nbsp; They believe there is no apocalypse coming.
 
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