How old is the Earth

consol said:

As I said, if you've had a lot of religion pumped into you, you will chant what you have been told to chant,
and you will do it even if it's complete and utter garbage.

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Ramon96 said:

Same as Atheism?

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Please tell me exactly who is telling me to chant something. First I've heard of it.

faster_jackrabbit said:

Only when you stone someone.

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Well, YHWH can arrange that also

Ezekiel 38:22 "And I will bring him to judgment with pestilence and bloodshed; I will rain down on him, on his troops, and on the many peoples who with him, flooding rain, great hailstones, fire, and brimstone. [Revelation 16:21 and 20:9]

Reve 16:21and hail, great as talent weight is descending out of the heaven up the men and blaspheme the men the God out of the stripes of the hail, that great is the stripe/blow of her, tremendous.

consol said:

But Atheist are Atheists only because they have had NOTHING pumped into them.

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But many Atheists go to great length trying prove God does not exist........So you have something "pumped" into you as well......you were told that God cannot exist, so you chant what you have been told to chant.....

faster_jackrabbit said:

What part are you disputing?

Does hell occur after you are dead or not?

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You have not answer the questions. Who say that a parent punishes at the time of the offense? Your reasoning does not make sense since many times parents punishes there child[ren] after the crime is committed!. Suppose a kid did something bad in school, and his parents found out a couple of days later, and once they found out, they punish there son. Well he is getting punish for a crime he committed a couple of days ago! And who said God "merely threatens punishment and does not actually punish until it is too late to correct behavior"? God always give chances for people to repent and he is merciful; it seems that you have some views on God not shared by Christianity.

faster_jackrabbit said:

Burning for trillions of trillions of years is a just punishment for one act of unmarried sex?

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Who said that? Of course God is merciful, love and just. Who instantly died after one act of unmarried sex? You response is based upon the assumption that this person died instantly after he had sex and because he/she merely committed one act of sin [your reasoning also assumes the person never sin up to this point or if he was a Christian, he was forgiven for all his past sins], he/she were banished to hell [your reasoning does not make sense].........Seems you have an incorrect view on Christianity and Scriptures altogether.....

With all due respect, Your post is based on fallacy arguments [weak arguments or circular arguments], illogical reasoning, and a incorrect view on Christianity and Scriptures altogether.

Blessings,
Ramon

Ramon96 said:

You have answer the question......
Who said that?

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Umm, Jesus?

Matthew 13:40 Even as then is together-collected the darnels and to fire is burned up, thus it shall be in the togheter-finish of the Age 41 The Son of Man shall be commissioning His messengers, and they shall be together-collecting out of His kingdom all the snares/stumblings, and the doers of the lawlessness,
42 and they shall be casting them into the furnace of the fire, there shall be the wailing and the gnashing of the teeth.

LittleLambofJesus said:

Umm, Jesus?

Matthew 13:40 Even as then is together-collected the darnels and to fire is burned up, thus it shall be in the togheter-finish of the Age 41 The Son of Man shall be commissioning His messengers, and they shall be together-collecting out of His kingdom all the snares/stumblings, and the doers of the lawlessness,
42 and they shall be casting them into the furnace of the fire, there shall be the wailing and the gnashing of the teeth.

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Yes I know, but my point is that everybody are given a chance to repent, and one is not judge on merely one sin. Sex before marriage is a sin, but God is merciful, lovely, and Just. If one repents, then he is forgiven. And besides who instantly dies once they have sex before marriage?

Ramon96 said:

Yes I know, but my point is that everybody are given a chance to repent, and one is not judge on merely one sin. Sex before marriage is a sin, but God is merciful, lovely, and Just.

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Yes, of course He is.

Revelation 14:10 And/also he is drinking out of the wind of the fury of the God of the having been blended undiluted in the drink cup of the wrath of him and he shall be being tormented in fire and sulfur in sight of the messengers, holy-ones, and in view of the lambkin.
11 And the smoke of the tormenting of them into ages of ages is ascending, and not they are having rest of day and of night the ones worshipping the wild beast and the image of it and if anyone is getting the image of the name of it.

AV1611VET said:

Then simply look at it this way:

• Science can take a hike.
• Nature can take a hike.

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So, God's Creation can take a hike.

Is this correct?

LittleLambofJesus said:

Thanks for that post and I haven't seen any YEC's post yet.

Are there any statistics on how many Christians are YECs or what denominations/sects within it claim to be YEC's?

[Looks like this is just as much a problem with Christianty as there is between "Trintrarians" and "non-Trinitrarians."]

http://home.entouch.net/dmd/gstory.htm

............Thus, as a young Christian, when I was presented with the view that Christians must believe in a young-earth and global flood, I went along willingly. I knew there were problems but I thought I was going to solve them. When I graduated from college with a physics degree, physicists were unemployable since NASA had just laid a bunch of them off. I did graduate work in philosophy and then decided to leave school to support my growing family. Even after a year, physicists were still unemployable. After six months of looking, I finally found work as a geophysicist working for a seismic company. Within a year, I was processing seismic data for Atlantic Richfield...........

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I was convinced as a young new Christian that YEC was needed to be a Christian too and I took some science courses in college and did a great deal of reading to come up with better arguments than I was being given. It was then I found out what a sham YEC was and that it was not necessary at all. It caused me some trouble and grief, but I got over my YEC beliefs.

YEC seems to be mostly a U.S. phenomenon in educated societies, there is a little bleed over, but not much. Even in the U.S., most are only loosely YEC, and that is just because their preacher holds the idea or a visiting speaker told them of the idea, not because of any scientific or theological study.

I think that all it would take to get rid of most of the YECs out there would be a few key preachers speaking in a pro-science way. It would be much like what happened to the U.S.'s religious stand against the science behind global warming. Many pastors use to rail against the idea, then a few key pastors stood up and said it really was a problem, not some satanic or atheistic conspiracy and suddenly everyone who was badmouthing the problem and the scientists warning us about the problem fell silent. Some now claim that they were never against the science behind global warming even though you can easily find the recordings of them accusing the scientists of working for Satan just the month before.

You will never reach the hard core YEC with anything, much like the hard core flat earthers, they will just have to die off.

I just hope the Church gets off this anti-science, anti-education kick soon, before they drag the U.S. down to the level of a second or third world country again.

faster_jackrabbit said:

What part are you disputing?

Does hell occur after you are dead or not?

Burning for trillions of trillions of years is a just punishment for one act of unmarried sex?

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What most Christians believe is worse. That you get an eternity of punishment if you have done nothing wrong but did not believe in God. If you did not buy into God's egotripping, eternity in hell is your fate.

Ramon96 said:

But many Atheists go to great length trying prove God does not exist........So you have something "pumped" into you as well......you were told that God cannot exist, so you chant what you have been told to chant.....

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You are 'clutching at straws' now Ramon, we all know the best form of defence is attack,
but you are saying Atheists are trying to do something that you don't even know exists in the first place,
how would an Atheist go about disproving something that can't even be proven to exist?
talk about trying to prove a negative, you are asking the impossible.

You are the one who's been indoctrinated with religion, not the Atheist,
unless the Atheist managed somehow to escape from the clutches of a religion,
which you should do at the earliest opportunity, but you won't, because you seem to have been well and truly captured.

If you stop thinking about God, God will disappear, God will be no more.
because God is a figment of your imagination, nothing more,
and you can forget Satan as well, because Satan is from the same place, your imagination,
it won't be easy, but you can do it if you try.
(who am I trying to kid? you're captured, sad case.)

Ramon96 said:

You have not answer the questions. Who say that a parent punishes at the time of the offense? Your reasoning does not make sense since many times parents punishes there child[ren] after the crime is committed!. Suppose a kid did something bad in school, and his parents found out a couple of days later, and once they found out, they punish there son. Well he is getting punish for a crime he committed a couple of days ago!

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It is still in time to correct behavior. Your god's punishment does not correct behavior. If behavior is corrected, it is the threat of punishment, not the punishment itself.

And who said God "merely threatens punishment and does not actually punish until it is too late to correct behavior"? God always give chances for people to repent and he is merciful;

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This does not dispute what I said. The actual punishment is still not administered until after it is to late to correct behavior. What you are saying now is that the person is able to circumvent punishment entirely by buying his way out of it.

it seems that you have some views on God

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My view on your god is that he does not exist.

not shared by Christianity.

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That would be a valid point if christianity agreed with itself.

Who said that? Of course God is merciful, love and just. Who instantly died after one act of unmarried sex?

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Ever hear of heart attacks? Old guys can have unmarried sex too. I do it all the time.

You response is based upon the assumption that this person died instantly after he had sex and because he/she merely committed one act of sin [your reasoning also assumes the person never sin up to this point or if he was a Christian, he was forgiven for all his past sins],

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So you are saying it is impossible for a christian to be forgiven all past sins, have unmarried sex, and die?

he/she were banished to hell

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In that scenario, would he be? Yes or no?

Seems you have an incorrect view on Christianity and Scriptures altogether.....

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That's what happens with so many christians saying different things.

With all due respect, Your post is based on fallacy arguments [weak arguments or circular arguments], illogical reasoning, and a incorrect view on Christianity and Scriptures altogether.

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Do you even know what circular reasoning means? Or is it a buzzword you throw around because you heard it somewhere? Circular reasoning means that you have two or more premises that depend on each other.

For instance:

1. god exists because the bible says so
2. the bible is true because it is the word of god

Now that you get the idea, please list the premises that I made that depend on each other.

Ramon96 said:

Yes I know, but my point is that everybody are given a chance to repent, and one is not judge on merely one sin. Sex before marriage is a sin, but God is merciful, lovely, and Just. If one repents, then he is forgiven. And besides who instantly dies once they have sex before marriage?

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I said unmarried sex, not sex before marriage. If one is not married and has sex, that is unmarried sex. It could be after marriage as well, as in my case.

Ramon96 said:

But many Atheists go to great length trying prove God does not exist........So you have something "pumped" into you as well......you were told that God cannot exist, so you chant what you have been told to chant.....

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I repeat, told by who?

Tomk80 said:

What most Christians believe is worse. That you get an eternity of punishment if you have done nothing wrong but did not believe in God. If you did not buy into God's egotripping, eternity in hell is your fate.

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But then there are some Christians who do not believe in that.

I took a picture out of my siggy awhile back because it offended some non-Christians. Then one complains about the ones I have now and this poster believes in Hellfire!!!

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7238619

Originally Posted by um hamza some one falls, fire, rhe devil, no I don't like that at all, by the way the picture too is awaful please change it why don't you put a signautre that have no blood , fire and devil
thanx

My Response: "Why should I? The Christian Bible mentions both doesn't it? Doesn't Islam believe in a "Hellfire" also and some type of "devil guy" that is suppose to come in the future "

LittleLambofJesus said:

But then there are some Christians who do not believe in that.

I took a picture out of my siggy awhile back because it offended some non-Christians. Then one complains about the ones I have now and this poster believes in Hellfire!!!

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7238619

Originally Posted by um hamza some one falls, fire, rhe devil, no I don't like that at all, by the way the picture too is awaful please change it why don't you put a signautre that have no blood , fire and devil
thanx

My Response: "Why should I? The Christian Bible mentions both doesn't it? Doesn't Islam believe in a "Hellfire" also and some type of "devil guy" that is suppose to come in the future "

http://www.shariahprogram.ca/article...cription.shtml
Descriptions of Hell in Islam
The Creation of Hell-Fire

"Fear the fire, which is prepared for the disbelievers."
[Ali'-Imran, 3: 131]
"Truly Hell is lying in wait- a destination for the transgressors."
[an-Naba, 78: 21-22]
​

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God is love. God really, really loves you. In fact He loves you so much that He will submit you to eternal agony if you don't believe in Him and behave exactly as He says you should.

What is wrong with this picture?

Frumious Bandersnatch said:

God is love. God really, really loves you. In fact He loves you so much that He will submit you to eternal agony if you don't believe in Him and behave exactly as He says you should.

What is wrong with this picture?

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Well, I would go with the Jew's view of Hell, which is not how most of Christianity or Islam views it.

Btw, I would like to ask if there is any way of knowing how far back the heritage of Native Indians go back.

I ran across this interesting prayer at this site and I'll be darn if it doesn't come close to this passage in Ezekiel 37:9. I would also wonder what their concept was of an eternal "hellfire" is/was. Thoughts?

Ezekiel 37:9 And He is saying to me, "Prophesy! to the breath. Prophesy! son of 'Adam, and thou say to the breath, 'Thus He says my Lord YHWH: "From Four of Winds, come! the Breath, and breathe/blow in the ones slain, these and they shall live." '

http://www.indians.org/welker/greatspi.htm

"Oh, Great Spirit, whose voice I hear in the wind, Whose Breath gives life to all the world. Hear me; I need your strength and wisdom.

O Great Spirit of the North, who gives wings to the waters of the air and rolls the thick snowstorm before Thee,
O Great Spirit of the East, the land of the rising Sun, Who holds in Your right hand the years of our lives
O Great Spirit of the South, whose warm breath of compassion melts the ice that gathers round our hearts,
O Great Spirit of the West, the land of the setting Sun, with Your soaring mountains and free,

LittleLambofJesus said:

Btw, I would like to ask if there is any way of knowing how far back the heritage of Native Indians go back.

I ran across this interesting prayer at this site and I'll be darn if it doesn't come close to this passage in Ezekiel 37:9. I would also wonder what their concept was of an eternal "hellfire" is/was. Thoughts?

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As with the bible, you can thank the translators, they are the ones who decided which words should be used, not God,
(of course, you could always say that God was working through them, that would cover all angles then)
so you would be foolish to hang onto EVERY word.

consol said:

As with the bible, you can thank the translators, they are the ones who decided which words should be used, not God,
(of course, you could always say that God was working through them, that would cover all angles then)
so you would be foolish to hang onto EVERY word.

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But of course. Those are the Jews/Hebrews Scriptures anyway.

So have any YEC's shown up? Was hoping to hear some arguement from them.

Isaiah 65:17 That behold! Creating Heavens New-ones and-Land New and-not they-shall-be-remembered the-former-ones and-not they-shall-come-up on heart. [REVELATION 21:1]

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a-Heaven, New, and a-Land, New, for the first heaven and the first land pass-away/parhlqen <3928> (5627)......[ISAIAH 65:17]

What, not a single proponent of option #1 so far?

Oh well, anyway. #2 here.