More (sincere) questions about Orthodoxy

Welcome to TAW Humbleman.

I haven't been around these forums in a while so I'll allow someone else to answer your questions. But, first I would recommend that you read The Orthodox Church by Bishop Kallistos (Timothy Ware). Its a great introductory book on the Orthodox church and its history. I would also strongly recommend that you have a meeting with a priest...he can answer these questions SO much better than any of us. And there's not obligation

1. What is the relationship between holiness and charity? A lot of churches seem to place an inordinate amount of attention on one or the other, but don’t, IMO, find a true balance.

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See Matthew 25. Giving alms/charity is required to the best of our ability.

2. Is there confession between a person and the priest? If so, is it mandatory/does it affect your state of grace?

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Yes, yes, and yes. More detail is needed here, but I'm in a rush.

3. What are icons and why venerate them?

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http://philthompson.net/ Check out FAQ #14

4. Are there opportunities to serve in the mission field short term or without being ordained?

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Absolutely. http://www.ocmc.org/teams.php

5. Which councils do you recognize?

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The first seven

I'll write more later.

Caveat: I am in no way an authority on anything. I don't speak for the Orthodox Church, for TAW, or anybody but me. And I don't even represent me that well.

But, the issue with charity is one close to my heart, because like you I haven't seen many churches address it in what I would consider a balanced way. What I saw most in my upbringing (mainline Protestant) was a big swing in the direction of the church as a service organization. My denomination fed people, but didn't tell them about Christ. In fact, they would've considered it tacky to do so. I'm not saying you should withhold food unless someone joins your church, but I am saying you should probably mention Christ occasionally to the people you're ostensibly helping. There's a quote from one of my favorite Orthodox thinkers, Fr. Seraphim Rose, that says:

"Christ did not come to feed the hungry, but to save the souls of all, hungry or replete."

Now of course, Christ told us to feed the hungry, and we should do it, but that's not the Gospel. It also bugs me when talk of charity, and thus the human beings on the receiving end of charity, as a means to their own salvation. Like, "Sorry, Johnny Homeless, this isn't about you or your soul. It's about me. Your suffering exists so that I might alleviate it, and therefore score holiness points. For myself, of course." Does that make sense? I find it terribly de-personalizing, as if the poor aren't really people, just a means to my salvation.

All of that being said, my current Orthodox parish does tons of charity work, more than most people in the community (or even within the parish) realize.

PrincessMommy said:

...But, first I would recommend that you read The Orthodox Church by Bishop Kallistos (Timothy Ware). ....

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You can read an older edition for free here:

http://www.intratext.com/X/ENG0804.HTM

I will take a quick stab at it, but you will find this superficial at best. Orthodoxy has to be experieced.


1. What is the relationship between holiness and charity?
- Charity (alms giving) is an important part of fasting. Orthdoxy stress the importance of fasting, not necessarily because of the acts themselves but because this brings you closer to God. It's personal, and private, between you and God - so no grandstanding. But very definate guidelines are given.

2. Is there confession between a person and the priest? If so, is it mandatory/does it affect your state of grace?
- Confession is between you and God. The priest is present to witness and assist. Frequencey is highly variable depending on the situation and the priest.

3. What are icons and why venerate them?
- Icons are not art, per se. Icons are icons - whatever that means. Since we are visual, icons stimualte the visual aspect of worship. Veneration is simply showing your respect.

4. Are there opportunities to serve in the mission field short term or without being ordained?
- Yes, many.

5. Which councils do you recognize?
- All Ecumenical Councils (1-7), other local councils and synods, too many to list.

I agree with others that reading "The Orthodox Church" will answer most of your questions. Meeting with a priest would be even better. If distance is an issue, you could contact one by phone or email.
I am just a recent convert, laymen so nothing I say is "official". It is just what I understand (or misunderstand).

"1. What is the relationship between holiness and charity? A lot of churches seem to place an inordinate amount of attention on one or the other, but don’t, IMO, find a true balance."

I've come from a Southern Baptist background so I think I know what you are talking about. In my experience, in Orthodoxy, people focus more on their own holiness/sanctification/theosis rather than judging their fellow parishioners. I find that very refreshing.

"2. Is there confession between a person and the priest? If so, is it mandatory/does it affect your state of grace?"

The Orthodox Church does practice confession to Christ in the presence of a priest. It also allows and even encourages private confession directly to Christ in the absence of a priest. Exactly how the things you've already confessed privately relate to the things you confess in the presence of the priest is worked out with your confessor (the priest). In my experience, little daily things often are not repeated by significant or recurring sins are.

"3. What are icons and why venerate them?"
Saint John of Damascus did an excellent job of answering this question. You can read his explanation at:
http://www.balamand.edu.lb/theology/Joicons.htm

4. Are there opportunities to serve in the mission field short term or without being ordained?
The earlier posting about the OCMC is a good place to start. You might also as a priest about other opportunities.

5. Which councils do you recognize?
There are seven recognized as universal.
You can read them at: http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf214.html
Registration is required to download.

HumbleMan said:

I'm still in the relatively early stages of exploring Orthodoxy.

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To tell you the truth we are all in relatively early stages - and always shall be.

Now, welcome to TAW.

Many years.

HumbleMan said:

I'm still in the relatively early stages of exploring Orthodoxy. I would like to attend a DL one Sunday, but will probably have trouble convincing my wife. She tends to like that high powered evangelical type sermon and worship music that we have been getting at the baptist church.

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Perhaps attending a Vespers would be better for her. Its usually a bit shorter (unless it includes Orthos and Matins) and full of scripture. Its a very gentle way of introducing Orthodox worship.

I came from a more Charismatic/contemporary worship style too. Its an adjustment for sure.

PrincessMommy said:

Perhaps attending a Vespers would be better for her. Its usually a bit shorter (unless it includes Orthos and Matins) and full of scripture. Its a very gentle way of introducing Orthodox worship.

I came from a more Charismatic/contemporary worship style too. Its an adjustment for sure.

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I concur with PM's suggestion - Vespers is a "smaller bite". Also - at least in my Parish - there are fewer people there, so it can be easier to approach the priest to introduce yourself/ask questions.

I hope this goes well for you

HumbleMan said:

Thank you for the suggestions and help. Another question is this:

There are two Orthodox churches in my area, one is OCA and one is Greek. The Greek one has a website, and I did a little exploring. I noticed that the service was done with everyone standing (except for certain cases). This would present a problem as my wife also has a medical condition that bars her from sranding for any length of time. Is this a universal Ortho practice, or ony in some churches?

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I attend a Greek parish. My husband has a back condition, and has been scolded by priests for standing anyway

I think most Orthodox stand for much of the service -- you may want to check. Some stand for the entire service, others for most. Hint; look for pews.

cobweb said:

You can read an older edition for free here:

http://www.intratext.com/X/ENG0804.HTM

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Thanks for this! I've always wanted to read this!

Welcome to TAW.

I had a difficult pregnancy last year and spent more than 5 months in bed, fighting for my twins' lives. (They are fine, thank God.) But the extended bedrest left me very weak and my muscles as squishy as raw pizza dough, even 10 months later. It will probably be years before I'm physically back to normal, if ever. I often sit during the service, as often as I need to. Anyone with physical or health issues is welcome to do so. We stand out of respect to the King - but it's not a legalistic thing, either. Most churches have some pews along the sides, or some chairs scattered along the sides, for just that purpose.

HumbleMan said:

I would like to attend a DL one Sunday, but will probably have trouble convincing my wife. She tends to like that high powered evangelical type sermon and worship music that we have been getting at the baptist church.

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I hope this doesn't come across the wrong way.
When I was an evangelical protestant I always enjoyed the sermon and got right into the music, but after many years I found that I was still falling into the same sins I did before, having made very little, if any progress. Since becoming Orthodox, I have come to a realisation that my former experience was big on theory with regards to holiness and becoming holy, but gave very little in practical terms. This may not be everyone's experience but it was certainly mine, so I have been very pleased to find that the Orthodox Church doesn't just give us the theory, it also gives us the tools to put it into practice.

HumbleMan said:

Thank you for the suggestions and help. Another question is this:

There are two Orthodox churches in my area, one is OCA and one is Greek. The Greek one has a website, and I did a little exploring. I noticed that the service was done with everyone standing (except for certain cases). This would present a problem as my wife also has a medical condition that bars her from sranding for any length of time. Is this a universal Ortho practice, or ony in some churches?

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I would check to see which one does most/all of their services in English. This may make a big difference, especially with your wife.

yes, Orthodox mostly stand for worship because we are praying a good deal of the time. Even churches without pews will have chairs scattered around the edges for those that need them. It should be fine if your wife needs to sit. That said, there will probably be some interested Baba who will feel the "need" to let you know whats, what . Just explain it's your first time.

There are a few times during the service when it is proper to be standing, such as: Whenever you see the priest (not the Deacon) coming out of the doors, During the Gospel Reading, during the Lord's Prayer (unless its a weekday and they may kneel), Cherubic Hymn, the Epiclesis (sp?), and Creed. Most of these will only be done during a Divine Liturgy. There's probably a few others I have forgotten, but I think these are the main ones.