What's the quick defense?

annaapple · May 23, 2007

The other day I was taking my cousin to the station and in the context of another conversation topic she made the following remark:

"Yeah, that's what bothers me about both Islam and Catholicism: all those rules you have to follow to decide who is in and who is out."

I wanted to defend the Chuch but I let it slide because we were almost at the station and my defense would have taken a long time... going back to the changes wrought by the counter-reformation and demonstrating from examples how her statement is just a typical ill-informed Protestant prejudice (obviously in a more loving way than that, whcih means it would take even longer!).

I just didn't know the quick defense. So you who are more informed: what would you have said if you had just one to two minutes? Who knows, I may get the chance to put her (and my parents...) right about this one. Let's hope, eh?

Thanks!

Carrye · May 23, 2007

I would probably appeal to a broader topic - that of definition. Definition, by its very nature, is inclusive and exclusive ... that's how we know what something means. That is true for every word and group throughout time.

The other approach I would take is to ask for examples. What kinds of "rules" does the person have in mind? And deal with those specifically as they are presented. I would make comparisons with other Christian traditions, if that is a point of commonality/agreement.

stivvy · May 23, 2007

I would have jst laughed, turned to her and said, "The only real rule is that you love each other as He would love you and live as Jesus lived. All the rest are tools to help guide you to do that." And then just smile and stair forward and quickly change the subject. "What beautiful weather God gave us today"

Da_Funkey_Gibbon · May 23, 2007

I would point out that the church lays out the rules, but has no insight into people's souls. I'd also point out that there are a heck of a lot of laws in the bible too.

anawim · May 23, 2007

annaapple said:
"Yeah, that's what bothers me about both Islam and Catholicism: all those rules you have to follow to decide who is in and who is out."

Rules exist to help us, and guide us.

Like a fire in the fire place to keep us warm and give us light. If it is outside of the fireplace, it will burn the house down.

Or the train that only has freedom to go places if it stays on the tracks. Otherwise it derails and comes to a standstill.

Maggie893 · May 23, 2007

My standard reply:

"Rules? What rules?.....you mean you don't like the way the Church encapsulates Scripture and Tradition into viable guidelines so everyone doesn't have to be an educated theologian? Man that's what I love about the Church!!"

annaapple · May 23, 2007

These are great! I wish I'd thought of them - thank you all so much. I look forward to deploying them in the near future. There's a lot of anti-Catholicism in my neck of the woods :sigh:

lionroar0 · May 23, 2007

Every church has rules.

Peace

Brother_Justin · May 23, 2007

Hmmm thats the part I like about the Church lol.

Brother Justin <><

Sandlapper277 · May 23, 2007

Well, we could have tried something else. We could have assumed everyone was one of us. Not much evangelizing happens then, and, in bad times, so do a lot of martyrdoms. Or we could have assumed no one was one of us. That tends to aggravate the out-of-towner. So we made some rules about who is in, and who is out. Doesn't mean those in can't go out, and those out can't come in, but it does help a lot to be able to tell who's who sometimes.

Cosmic Charlie · May 23, 2007

WHAT IS THE QUICK DEFENSE

1.d4 f5 2.e4 fxe4 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5 c6 5.Bxf6 exf6 6.Nxe4 Qb6 7.Qe2 Qxb2 8.Nd6+ Kd8 9.Qe8+ Kc7 10.Qxc8+ Kxd6 11.Rd1 Na6 12.Qxa8 Kc7

Originally played by Steinitz in 1920 this variation on the Dutch Defense is called the quick defense because it requires quick thinking on white's part to avoid 13) Qxa7? and play instead 13) .Rd2 which is a much strong move but not immediately obvious.

Hope this helps

foxsta · May 24, 2007

Haha! Awesome move

Now I also know how to defend my faith and improve my chess (which needs a lot of improvement)! Thanks lol!

gabrielListens · May 24, 2007

All religions have rules about who is "in" and who is "out" but a true follower of Christ learns not to judge others, but to treat their neighbor as they themselves would want to be treated, even if that neighbor is the enemy. "Love your enemies. Do good to those who hate you." - Luke 6:27

Christianity (and Catholicism) is there for ANYONE who wants to believe, and its mission is to overcome its enemies with LOVE.

Praise to you, Lord Jesus Christ.

gabriel

WarriorAngel · May 24, 2007

annaapple said:
The other day I was taking my cousin to the station and in the context of another conversation topic she made the following remark:

"Yeah, that's what bothers me about both Islam and Catholicism: all those rules you have to follow to decide who is in and who is out."

I wanted to defend the Chuch but I let it slide because we were almost at the station and my defense would have taken a long time... going back to the changes wrought by the counter-reformation and demonstrating from examples how her statement is just a typical ill-informed Protestant prejudice (obviously in a more loving way than that, whcih means it would take even longer!).

I just didn't know the quick defense. So you who are more informed: what would you have said if you had just one to two minutes? Who knows, I may get the chance to put her (and my parents...) right about this one. Let's hope, eh?

Thanks!

I find in those moments, that I will say 'Do you wish to discuss this when we have time?'
And then I say.."I will answer that if you have the time later."

That way it will either let her decide if she really wants an answer or not, and you wont have to think fast.

Remind them that context is the most important thing about the Bible.

Who did the Apostles write to and why....then bring up the Spirit staying with the Church...etc.
The Apostles wrote to the men they already taught to remove any heresy of the laity who thought they understaood the OT better. [In cases of the Jews] and those who wanted this or that.

SO we know it was the laity in error and not the ones who were teaching what the Apostles already laid down for them to teach.

Peter said to remember, Paul said to remember...but in the cases of the heresies, then they wrote what was necessary to BACK UP the ordained men. Not over ride what they were already teaching.

Well..... Context is everything.

If someone pulls out the Bible [and always pray for the Spirit to help you] read it from the perspective of the Church, not the laity. I think thats where things got confused.

rizzla · May 24, 2007

ah, that's what bothers me about both Islam and Catholicism: all those rules you have to follow to decide who is in and who is out.

Reply:
You think we’re bad? Just wait ‘till you come across infralapsarian, supralapsarian and Teleological Lapsarianism. Youll long for the days you thought Tulip just meant a flower….

NiteClerk · May 24, 2007

As has been said, point out that all churches have rules. Also point out that since the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ 1,974 years ago we have formal written "rules" about what is allowed and not.

And if the Church has no rules, how can it have any values? Your cousins church sounds like one of those churches that gets together every couple of years and votes on what their faith will be.

What's the quick defense?

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