Ethics in dating: Pursuing someone already in a relationship(non-marriage)?

far out. (only read the first page)
but id say stay away from any one with a boy friend, especially as it seems your going out with them, and none of them are lasting. if i totally thought a grl was the one then maybe wait for them to brake up, but other wise?!

Here's a lesson that applies in both christian and secular worlds...

If someone will leave their boyfriend/girlfriend to date you, they will do the same thing to you.

I agree with Princess Pea - monitor the situation and wait until they break up.

Macrina said:

Mrkguy, I think you have a valid point about people getting too emotionally close in dating relationships. For what it's worth, I don't think it's the end of the world if you inquire about whether they're exclusive or not -- just so long as if the answer is yes, you back off and respect that. It's a boundary thing, I guess -- pushing at someone else's self-defined boundaries just doesn't feel right to me, even if I don't think their choice is a good one.

So from the perspective of the "third party" wanting to "cut in," I'd have to recommend erring on the side of respecting the relationship and backing off.

But if you look at it from a different angle, the perspective of the person in the relationship, I would recommend not making a commitment that didn't hold meaning for you. You are right that there can be pressure to make something serious even if you just aren't there yet. But that's for the people inside the relationship to figure out.

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Please remember that people are not possessions! If two individuals want to date, and they're single, then they should feel free to do so.

I am neither suggesting pushing boundaries, nor pursuing anyone against their will. In fact, I've recommended against that sort of thing.

Essentially, I'm allowing for the 'nice guy' to pursue a 'nice girl' that wants out, but happens to be stuck with an abusive jerk. Unfortunately, nice guys are supposed to respect jerks (which is what you seem to recommend... and I recommended for a long time), while jerks aren't expected to respect nice guys. If anything, it should be the other way around. I'm not sure if there is a parallel with women... which may explain why guys appear to be more open to this POV.

That said, maybe this will help explain just what I'm getting at: Think of the movie "Titanic". As much as I disagree with the gratuitous sex scene etc., my position is the one that sides with Leonardo DeCaprio's character. Remember the jerk Rose was with? Would Leo have been a better man by not pursuing her? Would Rose have been happier with the jerk? I dont think so.

Now, I don't remember if that was an arranged marriage or not, but societal pressures can have a similar effect on some people. If folks would only communicate more, and be less intimidated by jerks and assumptions, then I think there would be less heartache.

um... if a girl is with an abusive guy why would you even want to push for a romantic relationship with her right away? There's a lot of emotional issues a girl like that needs to deal with before even being able to handle a healthy relationship

little_tigress said:

um... if a girl is with an abusive guy why would you even want to push for a romantic relationship with her right away? There's a lot of emotional issues a girl like that needs to deal with before even being able to handle a healthy relationship

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I'd rather not blame the victim. The man is usually the stronger half of the couple, so it's his responsibility to not abuse the woman.

Besides, I'm not recommending that people 'push' for anything.




Some of you insist on making this personal, but that's barking up the wrong tree:
As mentioned earlier in this thread, I'd rather date women that haven't dated in years, or simply haven't been in a relationship (just like me). Somebody asked for input, and I suggested that I don't see anything wrong with pursuing interested single women that aren't in mutually committed relationships. I used to think there was something wrong with it, but what I've observed over the years has lead me to revise opinion. That doesn't mean I'm going to change my own dating habits (or lack thereof).

I'd rather not blame the victim. The man is usually the stronger half of the couple, so it's his responsibility to not abuse the woman.

Besides, I'm not recommending that people 'push' for anything.

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who said anything about blaming the victim?

I've known people who have been in abusive relationships and I know how long it can take for them to heal enough to be able to actually handle being in a real and healthy relationship with someone.

If you're hoping to use a romantic relationship to get a girl out of an abusive one, that is pushing for a relationship

I would consider it incredibly dishonest to pursue someone in a relationship. If the girl calls the guy she's with her boyfriend, then that person is off limits (same goes for a guy).

If a person has been on one date with someone, then maybe there's some leeway there, but not if there's an established relationship.

Wow. There are a lot of posts on this topic. Personally, I think that "what goes around comes around", to use an overworn expression. If you win over a girl who was in a relationship with another guy, then what's going to stop this same girl from getting won away from you by another guy? I wouldn't want to date a girl who could be distracted so easily.

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence (to quote another overused expression). If two people are not happy in a dating relationship, and cannot resolve the issue(s) at hand, then break up for those reasons. Don't break up just because there is someone "better" waiting in the wings....because there will always be someone better...nicer, richer, more handsome, pretty, and so on...no matter who you are going out with at the time.

When I'm interested in a girl, I like to concentrate on getting to know her better, without showing interest in other girls. It's only fair. You've gotta give things a chance. At the same time, I also respect girls who are in relationships with other guys. I don't normally talk to them, and I certainly don't flirt with them, to keep from being a distraction from the relationship.

So anyway, if a guy was hitting on my girl, I'd consider that to be kinda disrespectful, and annoying. And I wouldn't do that to someone else.

little_tigress said:

who said anything about blaming the victim?

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It seemed as though you were suggesting that the victims have themselves to blame for the abuse. If not, then I stand corrected.

little_tigress said:

I've known people who have been in abusive relationships and I know how long it can take for them to heal enough to be able to actually handle being in a real and healthy relationship with someone.

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What kind of abuse? Some abusive relationships can lead to what you describe... especially when the abuse is severe and/or life-threatening.

Personally, I consider cheating, lying, verbal attacks etc. to be forms of abuse as well. These situations are somewhat more common than the severe abuse you're probably thinking of.

little_tigress said:

If you're hoping to use a romantic relationship to get a girl out of an abusive one, that is pushing for a relationship

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Since when is this about me?

FYI, I NEVER suggested that the girl should do anything against her will. In fact, I've said quite the opposite!

"Most of my relationships are very serious and very committed"

That is quite hilarious when you really read it. 'Most', meaning 'more than one'.

Thanks for the laughs.

"I don’t just move on to the next one, and I am sure there are other guys like me. You assume a lot just because women like to date me."

Actually, I have no idea if women really do like to date you or not. You could just be some kid trying to be a ladies man on a website for all I know.

I can only take your word for it really. I'll humor you though, you already made me laugh once tonight.

Achichem said:

I must say I sense much hostility from you, do you just mean to be forward or do I offend you?(You have called me a player, a term I find very offensive, so if “my type” offends you I encourage you to lay it down)

Now, you’ve laughed that I have had more than one relationship that I consider serious, which is fair enough. I came here for advise after all, so please if you find fault in what I have said lay your case[in full], I may need to hear it after all[all I have seen you do so far is give me a warning, which frankly seemed quite personal]. If you believe your case is too obvious to present, than I am simply sorry my friend, and am glad I could give you some humor and I hope such jovial displays are not drenched in the pain of pride and jealousy[not at me] as I so suspect at the moment.

I’ll tell you strait up, I believe in the process of dating[more than one person] and in compatibility not soul mates. Is nothing serious expect marriage? That makes me laugh seriousness and commitment is a dynamic in a relationship not an eternal bond, marriage is not just serious commitment, it a convenent. The only way I see my phase as “foolish” is when it taken out of the context of the claim “she is unloyal by nature”.

In summary: Pardon my ignorance, but you care to put more detail in that?


I sorry phrase it any other way you like. My point and question…do you think any person who has a variety of relationships that do not lead to marriage and appreciates them[as they are] is a player?


Peace,

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I don't know what to say man, I already gave my opinion.

I'm good like that.

Peace.

What kind of abuse? Some abusive relationships can lead to what you describe... especially when the abuse is severe and/or life-threatening.

Personally, I consider cheating, lying, verbal attacks etc. to be forms of abuse as well. These situations are somewhat more common than the severe abuse you're probably thinking of.

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actually I'm thinking both of physically abusive as well as emotionally abusive relationships. both take a lot of time to recover from.

Since when is this about me?

FYI, I NEVER suggested that the girl should do anything against her will. In fact, I've said quite the opposite!

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believe me, I wasn't trying to suggest that you would try to force a girl into anything. I apologise if it came across that way

But the fact remains that if you are pursuing a romantic relationship with said girl your are pushing for a relationship. Whether she's willing or to be in the relationship or not is really a moot point until she's actually in a place where she has recovered enough from what she has gone through to actually be able to handle a healthy relationship. Otherwise you're going to see her carry a lot of her emotional baggage into your relationship which in the end is going to cause a lot of problems.

mrkguy75 said:

Please remember that people are not possessions! If two individuals want to date, and they're single, then they should feel free to do so.

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Abolutely, people aren't possessions. That's not at all what I'm saying.

Okay, from my personal perspective (I can't speak for all women, but perhaps the feelings of one woman will help) -- Personally, if I am in an exclusive relationship, that means that I want to give it a chance. I'm not his possession, no, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that I have chosen to put my energies into seeing if this relationship works for the long term.

Therefore, if someone else, knowing that I'm in an exclusive relationship, chooses to court me, I feel that he is disrespecting my decision, and therefore disrespecting me. It's not a matter of "ownership," but rather a matter of honoring the decisions that I have made. He may think I'm making a poor choice, but that doesn't give him the right to try to sabotage what I'm doing in building a relationship.

And if I'm in an abusive relationship, then he as a friend may try to talk to me about it and help me out of the situation, but offering himself as a romantic alternative is not an appropriate technique. For one thing, that makes me question his motives, and makes it harder for me to see that he actually has a valid point about my boyfriend. It makes it easier to write off what he is saying if I think it's motivated just by wanting to date me rather than concern about my well-being; it may very well be both, but to someone in an abusive relationship, one motivation may serve to complicate the other.

The only point I'm trying to make in this thread, what it all boils down to, is that if I'm in an exclusive relationship, it's my decision, and that a man who didn't respect that decision would lessen his attractiveness in my eyes.

Macrina said:

The only point I'm trying to make in this thread, what it all boils down to, is that if I'm in an exclusive relationship, it's my decision, and that a man who didn't respect that decision would lessen his attractiveness in my eyes.

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Yes, it's your decision. If you're not attracted to the guy you're supposedly an 'item' with, you're single, and are interested someone else, then there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to go out with the other person instead.

I've never suggested that anyone try to break up a happy couple, or whatever it is that you think I mean. The feedback I'm getting seems inconsistent with the argument.


(It should probably be noted that my argument in this thread is somewhat different that what's suggested in the OP. At the time, I was kind of confused as to what he meant.)

mrkguy75 said:

Yes, it's your decision. If you're not attracted to the guy you're supposedly an 'item' with, you're single, and are interested someone else, then there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to go out with the other person instead.

I've never suggested that anyone try to break up a happy couple, or whatever it is that you think I mean. The feedback I'm getting seems inconsistent with the argument.


(It should probably be noted that my argument in this thread is somewhat different that what's suggested in the OP. At the time, I was kind of confused as to what he meant.)

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Yes, I realize now that you are speaking from a different perspective than the OP. It confused me when I disagreed with him and you disputed what I had to say -- naturally, it made me think you were arguing his point of view. My problem is with someone actively trying to break up an exclusive relationship. That's all.

Macrina said:

Yes, I realize now that you are speaking from a different perspective than the OP. It confused me when I disagreed with him and you disputed what I had to say -- naturally, it made me think you were arguing his point of view.

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Sorry about that . My mistake. Hope you can forgive me. I should have read the OP and your post more thoroughly. It was wrong of my to jump in with something that was on my mind (and seemed similar to the topic at hand), but apparently wasn't close enough. I just painted myself into a corner, pressed to defend something that I don't believe.

Macrina said:

My problem is with someone actively
trying to break up an exclusive relationship. That's all.

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I have a problem with that too, so we agree.

My argument is dependent on one member of a casually dating couple actively wanting to break up despite external pressures, and having an interest in dating somebody else. It has to do with a situation that I was on my mind, involving people I know, not myself (except for how I might act in that particular situation, in the unlikely event that I find myself facing a similar predicament... which I now realize is probably too convoluted and off-topic for this thread).