Archangel said:
Hi
Currently I am a pretrib rapture person.
But my question is... 1 Thess 4 says that the rapture and the resurrection happen at the same time. Revelation 20 says the resurrection happens at the second coming. How can a rapture be pretrib if the resurrcetion is post trib, and both happen when Jesus returns which is post trib?
Any advice...comments and please bible to support thank you.
BTW I wud like it if there was no arguing over views or if a rapture happens or not..just your view and thats all thanks!
Jesus return which is post trib? Good question. I agree with you that the resurrection happens at the second coming. I agree with you that the rapture and resurrection happen at the same time. Now as far as the pre-trib.... that is where I think causes the difficulty. If you were for a moment, set aside the pre-tri and leave the rest fall in place as you see them, I think that you will see your problems are solved.
There was a spring harvest of souls with Jesus's first coming.
Matthew 27:53
And came
out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
There will also be a fall harvest of souls that will come with Jesus's second coming.
Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
The fall harvest is established in the Fall feasts, especially the Feast fp Tabernacles, which is known as the feast of ingathering mentioned in Hebrews. It is also called the closing assembly, which means it is the last of the appointed times set by God for dealing with mankind.
Exodus 23:16 And the feast of harvest, the firstfruits of thy labours, which thou hast sown in the field: and
the feast of ingathering, which is in the end of the year, when thou hast gathered in thy labours out of the field.
Leviticus 23:39 Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month,
when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the LORD seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath.
Leviticus 23:33 The LORD said to Moses, 34. "Say to the Israelites: `On the fifteenth day of the seventh month the LORD's Feast of Tabernacles begins, and it lasts for seven days. 35. The first day is a sacred assembly; do no regular work. 36. For seven days present offerings made to the LORD by fire, and on the eighth day hold a sacred assembly and present an offering made to the LORD by fire.
It is the closing assembly; do no regular work.
The Feast of Tabernacles is known as the Final fall harvest of the Land, and on the eighth day will be the final harvest of souls with the Lords Return. The Feast of Tabernacles is in the fall on the Jewish Calendar in the month of Tishri 15-21 which would be September - October depending on the year.
Then come the signs and wonders showing Jesus's soon return.
Mark 13:24 Then shall they see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
When the book of revelation is opened at the voice of the seventh angel, when the mystery of God should be finished.
Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
We are seeing darkly, as through a looking glass, but there will come a time when it will be clearly seen. Does that mean that everyone looking into Revelation is wrong or right? With a glimmer, that people see, they are getting the impression, of the events that will soon transpire. When the book of Revelation is opened for its last present tense, it will be like a curtain going up on a stage, and we will see all the world characters in their true colors as the last act to be preformed as God said it would be.
Maybe that is why you are noticing so many books, studies and comments from believers on the subject of the end of time. The Holy Spirit is moving upon the minds of men to study this subject now more than ever. The Holy Spirit is also inspiring them on the subject in answer to their prayers regarding the last days of earths history.
Since we have clouded and befuddled minds full of this worldly religion, our minds relates everything it understand to what we already believes or have yet to be convicted of. If the conviction goes against what we believe, it takes longer to convert, if conversion will occur. This is where controversy lies. If you have ever found yourself without the peace that passes all understanding, then prayerfully re-examine that which you believe. The Holy Spirit is pressing an important conviction of truth upon you for your salvation. The controversy will end when you stop wrestling with the Word of God to fit what you have already been told. The controversy will end when you allow God to lead you into all truth. Unless you are lucky to be like Paul with a Damascus experience, it will be extremely hard for you to believe that you are fighting God's work. God wants there to be no question in anyones mind when he returns. He is calling every one to come talk with Him now.
Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Sin will be dealt with and we will say Amen.
Rev 12:12 for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time
Even the devil knows that there is a end to this world, do you?
The Feast of Tabernacles (Booths / Sukkot/ Ingathering) began on the 15th day of the 7th month, and, therefore, began 5 days after the Day of Atonement. During those intervening 5 days, the Israelites worked in their fields, harvesting the final crop of the year. At the conclusion of that harvest, and with many of the harvested (in gathered) fruits and crops actually hanging on the walls of their booths (tabernacles / tents), the Feast of Tabernacles began, a feast which lasted 8 days (7 days of the Feast plus the Sacred Assembly which was held on the 8th day, so it is part of the Feast also). It was also called Booths. The Feast of Tabernacles occurred at the end of the fall harvest which concluded ALL of the harvests.
On the Second Coming of Jesus Christ, we are not to know the day or the hour but we can know the season. We do have a promise found in the Feast of Tabernacles which is a promise of His return. This Feast is also called the Feast of In-gathering in Exodus 23:16. It is blessed picture of the Scriptural Harvest! Succoth is the third pilgrim Feast, when Israel was to come before God in Jerusalem. It is important in the last days to keep the Feast of Tabernacles for we know not when the Lord will return but we have His promise to keep His Word. In the Words of the Feast of Tabernacle are found the promises of His return.
Zechariah 14:16-19, "And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left . . . shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. . . .
This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles."
The seventh feast of the Levitical convocations is the Feast of Tabernacles. Tabernacles represents the fullness of the indwelling of God in us. It is God's purpose to dwell (Tabernacle) among His people. God is building His Temple in us, the body of Christ, that He might have a dwelling place in which and through which He can abide among all the nations of the earth.
The seventh Feast of the Feast cycle, is part of the prophetic plan, pointing to the completion of Gods His plan of Salvation, preparing for the time the faithful will enter into the great Sabbath.
John 7:37-40 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried saying,
'If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the Scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.' (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet glorified.) Many of the people therefore, when they heard this saying, said, 'Of a truth this is The Prophet.
God's plan of human redemption to the glory and likeness of His Son will not be completed and finished until the mystery of God is finished.
1 John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.2
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
The Feasts of Tabernacles lasted seven days only, yet at the end of this feast, on the eighth day is a Holy Sabbath. It was a separate feast, a one day festival.
The "booth" in Scripture is a symbol of protection, preservation, and will be where the saints will be when they are fleeing from the wrath of the devil into the wilderness.
Psalm 27:5 For
in the time of trouble he shall hide me in his pavilion: in the secret of his tabernacle shall he hide me; he shall set me up upon a rock.
Psalm 31:20 Thou shalt
hide them in the secret of thy presence from the pride of man: thou shalt
keep them secretly in a pavilion from the strife of tongues.
The eighth day... the great Day
Leviticus 23:36 For seven days (Tabernacles) you shall offer an offering made by fire to God.
On the eighth day you shall have a holy convocation.
1 Thessalonians 4:16
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Eight, as we know, is the number of resurrection, life, and a new beginning. In addition, it represents the commencement of the completion of Jesuss plan of redemption, dealing with the sin of man, which commenced in the Garden of Eden.
Zechariah 14:1-21 A day of Lord is coming when your plunder will be divided among you.
I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city. Then Lord will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights in the day of battle. On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then Lord my God will come, and all the holy ones with him. On that day there will be no light, no cold or frost.
It will be a unique day, without daytime or nighttime--a day known to Lord . When evening comes, there will be light. On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half to the Eastern sea and half to the western sea, in summer and in winter. Lord will be king over the whole earth.
On that day there will be one Lord , and his name the only name. The whole land, from Geba to Rimmon, south of Jerusalem, will become like the Arabah. But Jerusalem will be raised up and remain in its place, from the Benjamin Gate to the site of the First Gate, to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the royal winepresses. It will be inhabited; never again will it be destroyed. Jerusalem will be secure.
This is the plague with which Lord will strike all the nations that fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh will rot while they are still standing on their feet, their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths. On that day men will be stricken by Lord with great panic. Each man will seize the hand of another, and they will attack each other. Judah too will fight at Jerusalem. The wealth of all the surrounding nations will be collected--great quantities of gold and silver and clothing. A similar plague will strike the horses and mules, the camels and donkeys, and all the animals in those camps.
Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, Lord Almighty, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles. If any of the peoples of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, Lord Almighty, they will have no rain. If the Egyptian people do not go up and take part, they will have no rain. Lord will bring on them the plague he inflicts on the nations that did not go up to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles. This will be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles. On that day HOLY TO Lord will be inscribed on the bells of the horses, and the cooking pots in Lord 's house will be like the sacred bowls in front of the altar. Every pot in Jerusalem and Judah will be holy to Lord Almighty, and all who come to sacrifice will take some of the pots and cook in them.
And on that day there will no longer be a Canaanite in the house of Lord Almighty.
