You are so right!! But it is interesting to see how they justify polygamy. It truly amazes me that they look for justification of the flesh. I agree, men have a hard enough time with one woman.... DebiFiat said:Tyreth and Debi, I think y'all could go round and round on this topic without a definate result. Just one of those things I guess.
Iamsharp......I agree....I wouldn't want to share my husband with another "wife" either. Marriage is a bond between 2 not 3 or more. I don't see why a man would want more than 1 wife, as I think it would be difficult to be in a sharing, loving relationship with more than one woman. Most men have difficulty with living with just one woman, let alone more! But that's just my thought on this.
Christy,imasharp said:I don't have any biblical verses to go for or against polygamy. I will however be very honest. I can tell you now that I am NOT a jealous person. My husband would tell you that. I will say that, I probably would get that way, if he had more than one wife. I can imagine having a terrific day or a horrible day and not sharing it with him. That would make me nuts. The bible does say Be angry and sin not. I tell you now that I don't think I could make that promise. My husband and I try to be one. We have discussed being one and really worked toward this. There is now room for anyone else. So, I am saying in all honesty that I could see it being a huge problem for me. I also think that most women would agree.
Christy
You are so right!! But it is interesting to see how they justify polygamy. It truly amazes me that they look for justification of the flesh. I agree, men have a hard enough time with one woman.... Debi
If there are things in my post inside the quotes you have not said could you please point them out to me?tyreth said:hmm, a few of your quote tags are messed up there.
Like I said I am not a shcolar, but the verse did say that Sarah gave her maidservent. Different than God giving him another. Sarah made the decision and not God. BTW, thanx for the history lesson...all the lineage confuses me sometimestyreth said:I'm not sure what you are saying about Abraham - that because Sarah was barren he was allowed to take a second wife without sinning? Either polygyny is sinful or it isn't. Btw, the children of Israel came from Abraham's son Isaac, who was born to Sarah (later made fertile by God) after Ishmael was born.
Oktyreth said:I personally don't use Moses as an argument for the reasons I stated.
The greek word mia means one or by inferal first and by futher inferal...."a"? Sounds like decay of the language to me, but allright "a" still means singular...tyreth said:Why doesn't it make sense? "husband of a wife" is simply recommending that the leader be married - which to me makes infinitely more sense given the Scriptural and historical background. Not as a definite requirement, but something that is seen as a good thing.
Tyreth, Abraham did not take a 2nd wife. Sarah gave her maidservant to Abraham to fulfill God's promise. No where does the scripture tell us that Abraham took her as his wife. He did not love her, did not want her, did not marry her. His only "sin" was his disbelief in what God promised him and Sarah.tyreth said:Debi, it's so amusing to watch you as you think you've made an amazing point.
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Can you summarise for me your case again that explains clearly that David, Solomon, Abraham, Gideon, Jacob and others were sinning when they took more than one wife? To what Scripture do you point to show that they were wrong?
I agree we could go around in circles, but I'm not bored yet, so I don't mind
It says that Sarah gave her maidservant to Abraham to be his wife - Genesis 16:3. Now it is important to note in vs 5 that the trouble from Sarah was because her maid despised Sarah - it seems because she had been able to give Abraham a child, so she elevated herself above Sarah.Fiat said:Tyreth, Abraham did not take a 2nd wife. Sarah gave her maidservant to Abraham to fulfill God's promise. No where does the scripture tell us that Abraham took her as his wife. He did not love her, did not want her, did not marry her. His only "sin" was his disbelief in what God promised him and Sarah.
Abraham gave Sarah permission to cast her away - Genesis 16:61) If this was a polygamy marriage Sarah would not have been "permitted" to cast her away as the man is in total control of polygamy marriages
No disagreement with this.2) Sarah gave the maidservant as a way to fulfill God's promise
That is not something the Scripture tells us either way - it is entirely possible that Abraham had desired the maidservant for a long time before. It may be that he did not want her and just tried to satisfy Sarah. It may be that he genuinely thought it was the only way for God's promise to come true.3) Abraham did not want the maidservant but only did so to satisfy Sarah
Tyreth, I disagree, let's look at Gen 16:6 where Abraham gives Sarah permission to cast Hagar.tyreth said:I believe that to become a wife, Abraham did all that was necessary. What more did he need?
That is not something the Scripture tells us either way - it is entirely possible that Abraham had desired the maidservant for a long time before. It may be that he did not want her and just tried to satisfy Sarah. It may be that he genuinely thought it was the only way for God's promise to come true.
I'm not stating here that my reasons of supporting a monogamous marriage versus a polygynous marriage. But clearly polygynous marriages were biblical but for a purpose. The purpose was for men to reproduce. I can not see any other reason. I can see more troubles in a polygynous marriage versus that of one wife. Jealous, rivals, etc.....would be a result in such marriage. Do you truly think that this would be of God? God gave marriage as a gift. Marriage was not just for convenience nor was it brought about by any culture, it was insittutded by God and has 3 basic aspects (1) the man leaves his parents and in a public act promises himself to his wife (not wives) (2) the man and woman (not women) are joined together by taking respnsibility for each other's welfare and by loving the mate above all others; (3) the two become one flesh in the intimiacy and commitment of sexual union that is reserved for marriage. IT IS impossible for a man to fulfill what God intended for marriage by being married to several woman. A man can not possibily fulfill ALL of these women's emotional, spiritual and individual needs.On the topic of troubles in polygyny, I find it frivolous to mention the difficulties. There are difficulties in most marriages, monogamous and polygynous. Some polygynous marriages work, some don't. Same for monogamous. So an appeal to the difficulties of polygyny in the bible fails on two grounds:
1. You are saying that polygyny *always* produces troubles, and therefore it is wrong. Because if there's ever an exception, then polygyny is not the cause.
2. Gideon is at least one pious man who had multiple wives, but no mention of any troubles for.
It's really not a useful position. Sure there were troubles - so what? Are you going to tell me that any man who marries one woman only is in for a smooth ride?
Fiat said:The marriage of Abraham and Sarah seems to have been an original love match, and even to have preserved something of that character through life.
Still we find Sarah under the influence of polygamous ideas, presenting Abraham with a concubine.
Yet afterward, when she herself had a son, she induced Abraham to drive out into the wilderness this concubine and her son. Now Abraham was humane and kind, and it is said "The thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight" (
Genesis 21:11). But he was in the toils of polygamy, and it brought him pain and retribution. A Divine direction may be hard to bear.
Althought I do not necessarily agree that this was a truly polygamy marriage because Sarah was the one who cast the maidservant out to the desert (due to jealousy and possibly a raging PMS moment) and not Abraham.
2) Sarah gave the maidservant as a way to fulfill God's promise
3) Abraham did not want the maidservant but only did so to satisfy Sarah
Swordman......you are right, I was in error. Thank you.swordman said:Now you are in error. I have quoted above in verse 12 the words of the Lord to Abraham for HIM to cast Hagar out, not Sarah. Sarah just so happend to want something that was in line with the will of the Lord for the sake of the calling.
Dr. Don Dean
Fiat said:Sorry Tyreth, I think I killed your thread
It was fun....thank you.tyreth said:S'ok After a while it stopped for a few months until it was woken again just recently. I've been doing a lot of reading and thinking about this topic since I started. So for me the benefit of this thread is now mainly for others, not myself.
This is true. It is also true that the Lord gave to David at least two of his already plural wives, so the Lord's own actions give us a good indication that He had no problem with a man having plural wives.water_ripple said:the verse did say that Sarah gave her maidservent. Different than God giving him another. Sarah made the decision and not God.