• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

RFK Adjusts Hepatitis B Vaccine Recommendations; Democrats Lose Their Minds

probinson

Legend
Aug 16, 2005
24,720
4,648
48
PA
✟216,975.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I'm by no means an expert on VAERS, but health care professionals didn't ignore the VAERS reports on the COVID vaccine, as you are claiming they did. They go out and collect more data and determine if the reports are legitimate. The vast majority of those reports were no doubt determined to be not related to the vaccine. And this determination was made by health care professionals who go out and look at actual evidence.

I really wish that were true.

Also - COVID was a highly politicized pandemic.

Boy, was it ever!

It was also the most widespread pandemic to take place in the age of the internet - an age where false information spreads very rapidly. With those factors in mind, it is very much believable that we would see a spike in false/inaccurate reports in the VAERS system like had never been seem before. It was a global event unlike anything we have seen in recent history.

COVID vaccines should NEVER have been mandated. Even overlooking the physical harms that occurred, the cost of the loss of trust in public health was immense and may take decades to restore.
 
Upvote 0

probinson

Legend
Aug 16, 2005
24,720
4,648
48
PA
✟216,975.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Oops. The only ones politicizing it were the leftists.


I saw this story yesterday at The Atlantic. The headline is clearly meant to be attention-grabbing. But WOW, what an admission! If you had suggested that a child could have died from the COVID vaccine just a few years ago, you would have been accused of spreading misinformation and censored. That the mainstream media now readily admits that children died from the COVID vaccine is honesty quite astounding. If COVID taught us anything, it's that the only thing that separates conspiracy and "misinformation" from truth is often just time.

But the blasé way that the article approaches this very serious issue is kind of like (my paraphrase)...

Well of course some children died. Them's the breaks. You win some, you lose some. Ah well. Hoory for mRNA!

Absent from that article is any mea culpa or retrospection that, hmm, maybe mandating vaccines for children to attend school was ill-advised, given that children were at an infinitesimal risk from COVID. It's almost like we just have to accept that mandating interventions absent evidence means that, yeah, sure, we're going to lose a child here and there. But SCIENCE!

It would be laughable if it weren't so sad. But the thing that concerns me the most is the lack of concern and the blind trust that so many people still have in the industry and those funded by them. They still truly believe that this is about public health. They can easily spot when Joe Schmo is grifting and making a buck or two on false claims from vaccines, but they are completely, utterly, and I believe in many cases willfully blind to the IMMENSE financial incentives driving our public health "recommendations".
 
  • Like
Reactions: BasedLutheran
Upvote 0

loveofourlord

Newbie
Feb 15, 2014
9,139
5,095
✟326,571.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Why even have VAERS if the reaction is always to just discard it completely? You say it's to "track trends", but clearly you don't believe that since you say it can't be used as "proof of anything".

VAERS exists so that public health agencies can say we have a system for tracking vaccine injuries while summarily dismissing everything it contains.
it isn't proof, nor can it be used as proof, it's a, "Hmmmm okay suddenly an upshot of people having this kind of complication, lets see if related." and thats when you find out oh it isn't. Self reporting is unreliable as a source on it's own.
 
Upvote 0

MarkSB

Member
May 5, 2006
922
716
✟94,744.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I really wish that were true.

And you have evidence which shows that incidents reported in the VAERS system aren't being investigated at all, I suppose?

Boy, was it ever!

I recall conservative Christians being one of the groups who most staunchly refused to wear masks, because it was their "right" not to do so. I suppose that's not politicizing in your book, though. No, that's not putting politics over the love or your neighbor at all, is it?

COVID vaccines should NEVER have been mandated. Even overlooking the physical harms that occurred, the cost of the loss of trust in public health was immense and may take decades to restore.

And what physical harms are those? Where is your evidence? I'm not saying that no harms occurred, but the only thing that has been presented are unvetted reports in VAERS. Anyone who cares about data integrity is going to consider that to be an unreliable source.
 
  • Optimistic
Reactions: DaisyDay
Upvote 0

MarkSB

Member
May 5, 2006
922
716
✟94,744.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Oops. The only ones politicizing it were the leftists.


Do you have evidence of child deaths occurring from the COVID vaccine? Or just an article that says it "may" have happened?

I can't read the full article, because apparently I've read too many free articles from The Atlantic - but every other source says that no evidence of deaths was presented.
 
Upvote 0

LizaMarie

Newbie
Jan 17, 2015
1,495
1,239
✟214,843.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Fear not. The health insurance companies are more than happy to continue covering this vaccine dose, despite there being no evidence of benefit to low-risk children.

Parents will still be able to get the hepatitis B vaccine for their children at no cost even though the US Centers for Disease and Control Prevention’s vaccine advisers recommended a major change to the immunization practice.

You know what I find really odd about this story? They say this:
The revised recommendation calls for mothers who test negative for the virus to consult with a doctor or other health care provider before having their babies vaccinated. This could create confusion and place additional hurdles in front of parents and result in fewer children being immunized.

So the new recommendation is, consult with your physician. Not don't get it. Not, it's harmful. Not any of the other nonsense the media has portrayed. Simply "consult with your physician". Apparently, people believe that consulting with your physician about medical interventions could create "confusion".

That statement is astounding. But it's not really all that surprising. If you've followed COVID and the vaccines that followed, it always made sense to "consult with your physician". But to avoid "confusion", they decided that they should just "recommend" it to everyone.

These recommendations are not evidence-based. They are based on convenience. What a weird place we've arrived at where simply recommending one to consult their physician before making a decision is now deemed "confusing".
Things really went south with COVID, I blame Trump who bungled it at first, to Biden who mandated the COVID vaccines. As someone else upthread said Covid got really politicized on both sides. I don't think the vaccines should have been mandated, and they were rushed out too fast. So while probably generally safe, people could be excused for not trusting them. I have not had a Covid shot or booster in almost 3 years and don't plan to for awhile.
Polio, MMR and DTAP and Hep B vaccines however have years of proven safety records, and are far safer than the diseases they prevent. Of course there are people who can't tolerate vaccines. I have a friend who can't take any vaccines.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: DaisyDay
Upvote 0

probinson

Legend
Aug 16, 2005
24,720
4,648
48
PA
✟216,975.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
And you have evidence which shows that incidents reported in the VAERS system aren't being investigated at all, I suppose?

How would you propose that I prove that someone is NOT doing something?

The evidence is in the way that vaccine injuries are constantly downplayed and marginalized. The evidence is in how the main response to bringing up VAERS as a data source is simply to dismiss it. Is that "proof"? Nope. But again, I don't know how you would expect anyone to provide definitive proof of something that is not happening.

I recall conservative Christians being one of the groups who most staunchly refused to wear masks, because it was their "right" not to do so. I suppose that's not politicizing in your book, though. No, that's not putting politics over the love or your neighbor at all, is it?

:rolleyes:

I honestly can't believe that in 2025, we're STILL talking about masking. There simply is no evidence that masking is efficacious for stopping or slowing respiratory disease spread. Masks were nothing more than a talisman that accomplished little more than giving fearful people a false sense of security.

Medical or surgical masks
Ten studies took place in the community, and two studies in healthcare workers. Compared with wearing no mask in the community studies only, wearing a mask may make little to no difference in how many people caught a flu-like illness/COVID-like illness (9 studies; 276,917 people); and probably makes little or no difference in how many people have flu/COVID confirmed by a laboratory test (6 studies; 13,919 people). Unwanted effects were rarely reported; discomfort was mentioned.
N95/P2 respirators
Four studies were in healthcare workers, and one small study was in the community. Compared with wearing medical or surgical masks, wearing N95/P2 respirators probably makes little to no difference in how many people have confirmed flu (5 studies; 8407 people); and may make little to no difference in how many people catch a flu-like illness (5 studies; 8407 people), or respiratory illness (3 studies; 7799 people). Unwanted effects were not well-reported; discomfort was mentioned.

And what physical harms are those? Where is your evidence? I'm not saying that no harms occurred, but the only thing that has been presented are unvetted reports in VAERS. Anyone who cares about data integrity is going to consider that to be an unreliable source.

I don't think anyone talking about masking in the context of loving ones neighbor cares one whit about "data integrity".
 
Upvote 0

probinson

Legend
Aug 16, 2005
24,720
4,648
48
PA
✟216,975.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Things really went south with COVID, I blame Trump who bungled it at first, to Biden who mandated the COVID vaccines. As someone else upthread said Covid got really politicized on both sides. I don't think the vaccines should have been mandated, and they were rushed out too fast. So while probably generally safe, people could be excused for not trusting them. I have not had a Covid shot or booster in almost 3 years and don't plan to for awhile.

I had to get the COVID shot because my son was selected to perform at Carnegie Hall in February 2022, right at the height of the COVID insanity. Mandates were everywhere. I had very negative reactions to both doses of the COVID shots and I will NEVER get another one.

Polio, MMR and DTAP and Hep B vaccines however have years of proven safety records, and are far safer than the diseases they prevent. Of course there are people who can't tolerate vaccines. I have a friend who can't take any vaccines.

Mandates were ALWAYS going to breed distrust. Even a rank amateur like me could spot that coming a mile away. I said on this forum all the way back in early 2021 that what was at stake was trust in all vaccinations. Trust is key in public health. That trust was violated in spades during COVID.

People got a look behind the curtain at just how much control the pharmaceutical industry has over our healthcare. When booster shots are approved on the basis of increased antibody titers in eight mice and your top two vaccine regulators at the FDA resign in protest, something is very wrong. And then you start to wonder, if they're willing to forego evidence to approve these vaccines, which brought an immense financial windfall to the industry, what else are they willing to do? And if you start digging, you won't like what you find.
 
Upvote 0

DaisyDay

I Did Nothing Wrong!! ~~Team Deep State
Jan 7, 2003
42,877
20,627
Finger Lakes
✟334,437.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Unitarian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Do you have evidence of child deaths occurring from the COVID vaccine?
Not definitively.
Or just an article that says it "may" have happened?
Yes, "may" have happened.
I can't read the full article, because apparently I've read too many free articles from The Atlantic - but every other source says that no evidence of deaths was presented.
From the article:
No public-health authorities deny that COVID shots can have some ill effects. Adverse reactions are possible with all medical interventions. The mRNA-based vaccines produced by Pfizer and Moderna, in particular, are known to cause myocarditis—inflammation of the heart—on rare occasions, especially in teenage boys and young men. The form of myocarditis that occurs after vaccination is typically far less severe than the one caused by viruses; for unclear reasons, mRNA-related cases have largely disappeared in recent years. But this condition can be deadly, and considering the hundreds of millions of mRNA doses that have been administered to Americans, even extraordinarily unlikely outcomes may well be inevitable.​
The article concludes:
The possibility—perhaps the likelihood—that a handful of vaccine-related deaths occurred and were downplayed by medical authorities does not undermine the fact that COVID vaccination, on the whole, has prevented death on a massive scale. Nor does it justify sweeping changes to vaccine regulations. Rather, it suggests the need for some targeted reforms, such as improvements to the country’s vaccine-adverse-event reporting system—and also tells us that a strategy of minimizing tragic outcomes, however rare, may not be the best way to protect a vital instrument of public health.​

There is evidence that the mRNA vaccines can cause myocarditis in young men, but at far lower rates than the infection does. There is new research on the mechanism at play and how it might be mitigated or even prevented.

Myocarditis is a rare but real Covid vaccine side effect. A new study sheds light on what might cause it
Results point to two immune signals, and possible methods to keep them from going awry
“I want to emphasize this is very, very rare. This study is purely to understand why. In those rare cases, what’s going on? People talk about it, and here we provide a mechanism,” said Joe Wu, director of Stanford Cardiovascular Institute and the study’s senior author.​
Billions of doses of mRNA vaccine have been administered worldwide against the SARS-CoV-2 virus, including in countries with large, centralized health systems, such as Canada, England, South Korea, and Israel. Data from those countries and the U.S. allowed researchers to spot cases of chest pain, shortness of breath, and palpitations in some recently vaccinated people. These symptoms, which were mostly mild, appear after about 7 out of every million first vaccine doses. The frequency rises to 31 cases out of every million second doses, and 60 out of every million doses among men under 30.


SARS-CoV-2 infection causes myocarditis at much higher rates than immunization, with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reporting 1,500 cases per million Covid-19 patients. Cases caused by infection also tend to be more severe than those induced by immunization.


While researchers initially hypothesized that vaccine-induced myocarditis might be caused by an allergic response to the shots or autoimmunity, more recent research has pointed to inflammatory proteins.[/url]

I don't know of any deaths caused by mRNA induced myocarditis, but I didn't search for it.
 
Upvote 0

Larniavc

"Larniavc sir, how are you so smart?"
Jul 14, 2015
15,757
9,615
53
✟414,282.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
UK-Liberal-Democrats
Science denialism. We have literally 3 decades of VAERS data showing deaths and other harm from Hep B vaccine
Hold on; I’ve had the Hep B jab. Why am I still alive?
 
Upvote 0

Larniavc

"Larniavc sir, how are you so smart?"
Jul 14, 2015
15,757
9,615
53
✟414,282.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
UK-Liberal-Democrats
The new recommendation aligns with much of the rest of the world, where they also do not vaccinate for Hep B at birth.
It does happen in the UK but only for high risk babies. Otherwise it’s a se of three at 6, 8 and 12 weeks.
 
Upvote 0