Stranger Things

[RDKirk]

It reflects a decline in parenting.

No, it reflects errors on both sides.

Parents did not call for teachers to teach "sight reading" instead of phonics, for instance. We could have had the most well-behaved children, but being taught sight reading, there would still be a downtrend in literacy.

 

[Jipsah]

Today, students in USA and Australia are mostly educated (or dis-educated?) with progressive elements -- most of them can't read properly, can't spell and are poor at maths.

Then

No, it reflects errors on both sides.

Parents did not call for teachers to teach "sight reading" instead of phonics, for instance. We could have had the most well-behaved children, but being taught sight reading, there would still be a downtrend in literacy.

ok, fair play, the abandonment of phonics was moronic. But many parents (like my wife and myself), simply taught our kids to read ourselves. All our young ‘uns could read a newspaper when they entered first grade. We also read to them and stuffed the house with books. We considered raising them our primary responsibility, and it turned out quite well despite the sad level of public education.

 

[RDKirk]

ok, fair play, the abandonment of phonics was moronic. But many parents (like my wife and myself), simply taught our kids to read ourselves. All our young ‘uns could read a newspaper when they entered first grade. We also read to them and stuffed the house with books. We considered raising them our primary responsibility, and it turned out quite well despite the sad level of public education.

My grandmother, with an 8th grade education, taught her five children to read before they started school in the 1930s. Then in the 1950s, she taught me to read before I started school.

Schools today have children for 12 years--claiming to be giving them an education--and graduate them still unable to read.

And we're going to lay all the blame on the parents?

 

[Hentenza]

My grandmother, with an 8th grade education, taught her five children to read before they started school in the 1930s. Then in the 1950s, she taught me to read before I started school.

Schools today have children for 12 years--claiming to be giving them an education--and graduate them still unable to read.

And we're going to lay all the blame on the parents?

I would not lay all of the blame on the parents but children were their parents are involved in their lives and education do much better.

“If you could wave a magic wand that would improve the chances of school success for your children as well as their classmates, would you take up that challenge?

For decades, researchers have pointed to one key success factor that transcends nearly all others, such as socioeconomic status, student background or the kind of school a student attends: parental involvement.

The extent to which schools nurture positive relationships with families — and vice versa — makes all the difference, research shows. Students whose parents stay involved in school have better attendance and behavior, get better grades, demonstrate better social skills and adapt better to school.

Early childhood education is a period of learning that occurs after birth until age 5, when a child’s brain is rapidly developing. High-quality early childhood education programs can yield significant lifelong benefitsfor students, according to the National Education Association.

Children who spend their earliest years learning in a positive and productive environment are:

• less likely to repeat a grade;
• more prepared academically for later grades;
• more likely to graduate from high school; and
• higher earners in the workforce.

Family involvement in early childhood education more securely sets these students up to develop a lifelong love of learning, which researchers say is key to long-term success.”

The Role of Parental Involvement in Your Child's Education

Learn how parent involvement in childhood supports education goals and improves student success. Discover examples of parental involvement in schools.

www.aecf.org

 

[RDKirk]

I would not lay all of the blame on the parents but children were their parents are involved in their lives and education do much better.

“If you could wave a magic wand that would improve the chances of school success for your children as well as their classmates, would you take up that challenge?

For decades, researchers have pointed to one key success factor that transcends nearly all others, such as socioeconomic status, student background or the kind of school a student attends: parental involvement.

The extent to which schools nurture positive relationships with families — and vice versa — makes all the difference, research shows. Students whose parents stay involved in school have better attendance and behavior, get better grades, demonstrate better social skills and adapt better to school.

Early childhood education is a period of learning that occurs after birth until age 5, when a child’s brain is rapidly developing. High-quality early childhood education programs can yield significant lifelong benefitsfor students, according to the National Education Association.

Children who spend their earliest years learning in a positive and productive environment are:

• less likely to repeat a grade;
• more prepared academically for later grades;
• more likely to graduate from high school; and
• higher earners in the workforce.

Family involvement in early childhood education more securely sets these students up to develop a lifelong love of learning, which researchers say is key to long-term success.”

The Role of Parental Involvement in Your Child's Education

Learn how parent involvement in childhood supports education goals and improves student success. Discover examples of parental involvement in schools.

www.aecf.org

But, you know, that's never been the general circumstance in the US.

Parents in the US, in general, have never been able to help their children or provide a "positive and productive environment" for learning. That's a fairy tale, gaslighting that the education industry has spun for decades...it's never been the general case in the US. Parents have been poor, parents have had to work, parents have always been strung out in the US. The best they did was to send their children to school and insist that their kids do what their teachers told them.

It is true that since about the 80s there has been a disconnect between parents and the education system. For sure, to "insist that their kids do what their teachers told them" has been a ball that parents have dropped.

As a black man who made the transition in the 60s from segregated Southern schools with deeply caring black faculties to integrated schools with sometimes uncaring (sometimes malicious) white faculties, I can see that as a factor. But the phenomenon wasn't happening only as a result of integration. Something larger was happening across the board so that today there is very little trust between parents and teachers regardless of race.

 

[RDKirk]

What happens if the scores are poor? Do you think this will also be a tool for recruitment?

~bella

Bad ASVAB scores would be a really, really bad indicator of the effectiveness of public education.

The military has practically all the same vocations as the civilian community. A bad ASVAB score across the board would mean the student is not currently prepared for technical training in practically any technical skill even in the civilian community.

I think that's where we actually are, and I think having all students take the ASVAB would clearly identify that fact.

So, if the students who do poorly on the SAT also do poorly on the ASVAB, we would face the tough question of exactly what schools think they're doing.

 

[RDKirk]

There’s a lot of cuts planned for public assistance. Including the programs I mentioned and others related to food, housing and health care. The fallout will be ugly. Not only for minorities but others that fall outside of their ideal.

~bella

This is one of the areas that bolster my opinion that the current administration is fascist (and I'd also argue that the past administration was Marxist).

Social Darwinism is a characteristic of fascism. The fascists themselves promote social Darwinism in their own writings. It's not just that "the other" should be eliminated from society, but also "the weak."

 

[RDKirk]

Not sure what her reason is, but have you seen the kind of math kids have to do today? The process is just silly.

The nation bought green wienies in the 80s for both reading and early mathematics education.

We know about the sight reading fiasco that the education industry hasn't given up yet.

But in the 80s the "new math" concept is also a disaster.

I have to quickly point out that a change from the columnar arithmetic we learned up until the 80s to the relational arithmetic used in most of the rest of the world would have been a good thing. But of course, it's not American to do anything the rest of the world is doing (like the metric system).

So, the education industry promoted an in-house "new math" in the 80s that simply does not work for teaching children how to calculate. And they haven't let go of it yet.

 

[Hentenza]

But, you know, that's never been the general circumstance in the US.

Parents in the US, in general, have never been able to help their children or provide a "positive and productive environment" for learning. That's a fairy tale, gaslighting that the education industry has spun for decades...it's never been the general case in the US. Parents have been poor, parents have had to work, parents have always been strung out in the US. The best they did was to send their children to school and insist that their kids do what their teachers told them.

It is true that since about the 80s there has been a disconnect between parents and the education system. For sure, to "insist that their kids do what their teachers told them" has been a ball that parents have dropped.

As a black man who made the transition in the 60s from segregated Southern schools with deeply caring black faculties to integrated schools with sometimes uncaring (sometimes malicious) white faculties, I can see that as a factor. But the phenomenon wasn't happening only as a result of integration. Something larger was happening across the board so that today there is very little trust between parents and teachers regardless of race.

My memory as I was growing up in the sixties and seventies is one we’re my parents and the parents of my friends were quite involved in our educations but I grew up middle class so not indicative of how it was for the poor. As a parent I spent time with my kids helping them with their homework and reading to them every night. This in turn showed my kids the importance to be part of their kids education and they are involved just as we were. Consequently I started reading at around 4 years old, my kids started reading at about the same age, and so have my grandchildren.

My neighbor, whom I’ve known for about 20 years, taught 6th grade math in public school for 30 years. His school was in a mixed income area ranging from poor to high middle class. His major complain was that those of lower income would not prioritize their children’s education and complain the loudest that the teachers were not doing their jobs. Also their behavior would be much worse because of the lack of attention. It’s sad really.

These are just my observations and are in no way representative. I did find an interesting reading how children’s reading literacy has changed in the last 50 years and there has been advances but no where near enough. In my opinion, if the schools would spend time educating the parents on the importance of being part of their children’s education the outcomes might be better.

Reading Universe | Behind the Numbers: How Is the U.S. Doing in…

Dr. Reardon, a Prof. of Poverty and Inequality in Education at Stanford University, explains how the U.S. is doing in teacher our children how to read.

readinguniverse.org