Zions New Children

[Guojing]

I will answer that there are no tribes who rule, just those who have been washed in Living Waters through Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
I do hope you understand.
Blessings.

So what did Jesus meant in Matthew 19:28?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

So what did Jesus meant in Matthew 19:28?

Those who follow Him will judge the 12 tribes.

 

[Guojing]

Those who follow Him will judge the 12 tribes.

Oh, so to you, that promise is not just to the 12, but anyone that follows Jesus, including us?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Oh, so to you, that promise is not just to the 12, but anyone that follows Jesus, including us?

Of course.

 

[Guojing]

Of course.

Interesting, thanks for sharing.

 

[keras]

Rebuilding some temple in the middle east would be a blasphemy!

Bible Prophecy clearly says there will be a new Temple in Jerusalem.
It will be built by people coming from far away and a world leader will desecrate it.

Denying these plainly stated Words, is to directly oppose Bible truths. You are the one in Lala land.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Don't negate the promise to Abraham of the "seed" which will never die which means ethnic Jews (biological descendants of Abraham). We don't replace Israel, as Paul says, we gentiles are grafted in. The original branches are still there and will always be.

Have you never read these verses...

Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ....

Galatians 3:29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[Delvianna]

Have you never read these verses...

Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ....

Galatians 3:29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Yes, but 1 the context is biological because of the promise and the 2nd the context is a concept based on spiritual. It's not the same context.

I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies, - Genesis 22:17

Descendants = seed but that is exactly why God established Isaac. And what did he say about Isaac?

Then God said: “No, Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac; I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his descendants after him. - Genesis 17:19

If the entire meaning was spiritual only, then that verse holds no purpose.

 

[Guojing]

Don't negate the promise to Abraham of the "seed" which will never die which means ethnic Jews (biological descendants of Abraham). We don't replace Israel, as Paul says, we gentiles are grafted in. The original branches are still there and will always be.

Abraham has physical descendants as well as spiritual descendants, so you are correct.

Abraham had 2 seed, spiritual and physical, while Jacob only has one seed, that is physical

God promised numerous descendants to Abraham in a number of places in Genesis

Genesis 12: 2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

Genesis 15 (our favourite passage): 5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.

6 And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

Genesis 17:4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.

5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

Genesis 22: 17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;

Notice how God specified to Abraham that his seed will be of 2 groups:

-Stars of the heaven
-Sand upon the sea shore.

While for Jacob, it was found in Genesis 28

12 And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it.

13 And, behold, the Lord stood above it, and said, I am the Lord God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed;

14 And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.

Here is the critical alteration in the promise of numerous descendants to Jacob can be found. While Abraham was promised seed that will be the stars of heaven, Jacob had no promise of that.

Instead, God promised Jacob specifically that his seed shall be as the dust of the earth

It is Jacob's seed that became Israel, which is also Abraham's physical seed.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Yes, but 1 the context is biological because of the promise and the 2nd the context is a concept based on spiritual. It's not the same context.


Descendants = seed but that is exactly why God established Isaac. And what did he say about Isaac?

If the entire meaning was spiritual only, then that verse holds no purpose.

I have no idea of what you're saying. Just because the meaning is spiritual doesn't mean it holds no purpose. That makes no sense. Why not just accept what the New Testament teaches about these things?

As for Isaac, have you never read this...

Galatians 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.

 

[Delvianna]

I have no idea of what you're saying. Just because the meaning is spiritual, doesn't mean it holds no purpose. That makes no sense. Why not just accept what the New Testament teaches about these things?

As for Isaac, have you never read this...

Galatians 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.

I'm saying the promise is not just spiritual but includes biological too but if it was only spiritual then you would have to disregard the verse I offered. NT = 50% of the info (spiritual Israel) OT = 50% of the info (biological Israeli's).

 

[Delvianna]

Abraham has physical descendants as well as spiritual descendants, so you are correct.

Abraham had 2 seed, spiritual and physical, while Jacob only has one seed, that is physical

God promised numerous descendants to Abraham in a number of places in Genesis

Genesis 12: 2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

Genesis 15 (our favourite passage): 5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.

6 And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

Genesis 17:4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.

5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

Genesis 22: 17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;

Notice how God specified to Abraham that his seed will be of 2 groups:

-Stars of the heaven
-Sand upon the sea shore.

While for Jacob, it was found in Genesis 28

12 And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it.

13 And, behold, the Lord stood above it, and said, I am the Lord God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed;

14 And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.

Here is the critical alteration in the promise of numerous descendants to Jacob can be found. While Abraham was promised seed that will be the stars of heaven, Jacob had no promise of that.

Instead, God promised Jacob specifically that his seed shall be as the dust of the earth

It is Jacob's seed that became Israel, which is also Abraham's physical seed.

I'll have to look into what you're saying, I'll get back to you at some point, I am way too brain dead right now to research lol but thank you for your thought out reply.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

I'm saying the promise is not just spiritual but includes biological too but if it was only spiritual then you would have to disregard the verse I offered. NT = 50% of the info (spiritual Israel) OT = 50% of the info (biological Israeli's).

I trust that Paul knew what he was talking about and am not going to insist that he left something out when talking about who the seed of Abraham are. Paul knew the OT much better than any of us do, but did not ever say anything like what you are saying.

 

[keras]

The absolute fact is that there is only ONE people of God. Who are His faithful Christian peoples by natural and Spiritual descent. John 17:20-23, +

Natural; by the fact of everyone living today, has some of Abrahams genes.
Spiritual; By accepting the Salvation offered by Jesus.

The truth of ‘born again’ Christians being the only People of God is summed up in a single sentence: Christ called a people together made up of Jews and Gentiles which would be one, not according to the flesh, but in the Spirit, and they would be the people of God.

Jesus Christ has made his followers into the whole People of God. The ministry of Jesus was to bring into existence a renewed people, in continuity with the Israel of old. Paul calls this new community ‘the Israel of God’. Galatians 6:16
Jesus symbolized his intention to do this by choosing the Twelve, Matthew 10:1-8, as representatives of the twelve tribes of Israel and as the foundation members of a renewed and mission minded community.

Christ called a people together made up from people of every tribe, race, nation and language, Revelation 5:9-10, who would be one, not according to the flesh, but in the Spirit, and they are now the Christian people of God. Seen by John in Revelation 7:9
This expanded People of God are bonded together by the sacrifice of the life of Jesus and the gift of his Spirit in their hearts, re-creating, directing, activating and motivating them from within. Paul’s letter to Titus speaks clearly of the influence of the Holy Spirit given at the rite of baptism, the first sacrament of Christian initiation:

Titus 3:5-7 From the goodness and loving kindness of God; our Saviour appeared and He saved us, not because of any works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit. This Spirit he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Saviour, so that, having been justified by his grace, we would become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

The clearest expression of the identity of the People of God of the New Covenant is found in 1 Peter 2:9-10 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s own people, in order that you may proclaim the mighty acts of him who called you out of darkness into his marvellous light. Once you were not a people, but now you are God’s people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.
Romans 9:24-26 We [Christians] are the recipients of God’s mercy, whom He has called from among the Jews and Gentiles, for as Hosea says: Those who were not My people, I will call My people…..sons of the Living God.

 

[Delvianna]

The absolute fact is that there is only ONE people of God. Who are His faithful Christian peoples by natural and Spiritual descent. John 17:20-23, +

Natural; by the fact of everyone living today, has some of Abrahams genes.
Spiritual; By accepting the Salvation offered by Jesus.

The truth of ‘born again’ Christians being the only People of God is summed up in a single sentence: Christ called a people together made up of Jews and Gentiles which would be one, not according to the flesh, but in the Spirit, and they would be the people of God.

Jesus Christ has made his followers into the whole People of God. The ministry of Jesus was to bring into existence a renewed people, in continuity with the Israel of old. Paul calls this new community ‘the Israel of God’. Galatians 6:16
Jesus symbolized his intention to do this by choosing the Twelve, Matthew 10:1-8, as representatives of the twelve tribes of Israel and as the foundation members of a renewed and mission minded community.

Christ called a people together made up from people of every tribe, race, nation and language, Revelation 5:9-10, who would be one, not according to the flesh, but in the Spirit, and they are now the Christian people of God. Seen by John in Revelation 7:9
This expanded People of God are bonded together by the sacrifice of the life of Jesus and the gift of his Spirit in their hearts, re-creating, directing, activating and motivating them from within. Paul’s letter to Titus speaks clearly of the influence of the Holy Spirit given at the rite of baptism, the first sacrament of Christian initiation:

Titus 3:5-7 From the goodness and loving kindness of God; our Saviour appeared and He saved us, not because of any works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit. This Spirit he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Saviour, so that, having been justified by his grace, we would become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

The clearest expression of the identity of the People of God of the New Covenant is found in 1 Peter 2:9-10 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s own people, in order that you may proclaim the mighty acts of him who called you out of darkness into his marvellous light. Once you were not a people, but now you are God’s people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.
Romans 9:24-26 We [Christians] are the recipients of God’s mercy, whom He has called from among the Jews and Gentiles, for as Hosea says: Those who were not My people, I will call My people…..sons of the Living God.

Agreed and even today you have biological Jews apart of the kingdom.

 

[keras]

Agreed and even today you have biological Jews apart of the kingdom.

Who are the Jewish State of Israel today. They face Judgment/punishment and only a Christian remnant will survive to join with their brethren, Jeremiah 50:4-6

 

[keras]

Zion, the Promised Land
Isaiah 49:14-23 Zion says: The Lord has forsaken me. The Lord says: Can a woman forget her child? I shall never forget you. I have inscribed you on the palms of My hands. Your dwellings are always before My eyes.

Your people will hasten back, while your enemies depart. Look around, your children gather and come to you. They will be as ornaments in the Land.

Once the Land was desolate. Your enemies are now far away. The children born while the Land was occupied by foreigners will now say: This place is too small for us. Zion will say; who bore these children, when I was deserted, where did they come from?

The Lord says; I shall signal to the nations, they will carefully transport My people to their Promised Land. Kings will be your sponsors and great people will serve and honour you. You will know that I am the Lord, none who trust in Me will be disappointed.

Zion: The holy Land, forsaken and desolate, Jeremiah 22:6-7, Hosea 4:3, that is how it will be after the next prophesied event: The Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath, an explosion of the sun, directed at the Middle East that will clear and cleanse the entire area. Currently most of the holy Land is occupied by atheists or false religion worshippers. The Jews will be judged, Zechariah 13:7-9, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Hosea 4:3, Zephaniah 1:18, 2 Peter 3:7

‘the enemies depart, they are now far away’: Psalms 83 and Micah 4:11 tell us how the surrounding nations and entities all hate Israel and want to ‘wipe them off the map’. Those attackers will all be killed, some by their own weapons; Psalms 7:12-16, and the rest of the inhabitants will flee. Jeremiah 49:4-5 & 35-37

‘Your people will hasten back’: A part of Judah has returned, but very few are true believers and Judah now faces judgement. Only a remnant will survive in Jerusalem after the Lord cleanses all of the holy Land of every wicked and ungodly person. Isaiah 6:13, Isaiah 66:15-17, Romans 9:27 All true Christians are the Lord’s people, His elect: Romans 9:24-26, Psalms 24:3-5, Malachi 3:16-17

‘The Lord’s people, all those who put their trust in Him’: Christians from every race, nation and language, will be gathered and transported to all the area from the Nile to the Euphrates. Isaiah 66:18b-20, Psalms 107, Jer. 23:3-4, Zechariah 9:16 On that Day their God will save them, they will sparkle like jewels in the Land.

‘The Promised Land’: will be regenerated and become fruitful. Joel 2:21-24, Psalms 126:1-5

Ezekiel 36:8-12 You, mountains of Israel, put forth your branches and bear fruit, for the homecoming of your people is near. Isaiah 51:3

Isaiah 35:1-10 Let the desert be glad, let it flower and rejoice!...Be strong, My people, fear not: your God comes to save you with His vengeance and retribution. Then; understanding will be given to all who couldn’t see or comprehend the Prophetic Word.

A highway will appear and by that road, the Lord’s redeemed people will travel into their heritage. His holy people, set free will enter Zion with shouts of praise for their Redeemer. Gladness and joy will come upon them and suffering and sorrow will be gone.

Psalms 48:11-14 The hills of Zion rejoice, Judah’s cities are glad. Walk about the holy Land, count the towers. Note the fortifications and buildings, so that you can tell about them to the coming generations. For this God is our God, our guide and protector, now and forever.

Psalms 69:35-36 For God will deliver Zion and rebuild the cities of Judah. The children of those who serve Him will inherit the Land and those who love His Name will dwell there.

Isaiah 55:11-13 You will go out with joy and be led forth in peace....the Land will rejoice at your coming.
Reference: Revised English Bible, some verses abridged.

That all this happens before the Return of Jesus in His glory, is made clear by Isaiah 49:23,
‘you will know that I am the Lord’’. First, His people will gather and settle in all of the holy Land. Those who serve the Lord will inherit the Land. Psalms 126:1-5
All this is prophesied to happen as all the faithful Christian peoples from every tribe, race, nation and language, prepare for the glorious Return and Millennial reign of Jesus.

 

[keras]

“2020 AD + 9.5 = 2029.5 AD Exactly 2000 years for the present Church age” -
The Day of the Lord is at Hand for all the Nations

Subtract the AOD’s 3.5 years = AOD Jan next year!

I have never said I was infallible. I have said that the 3 1/2 years of world control by the 'beast', cannot be counted as part of the 2000 years of mankind's rule in this Christian era. This puts the glorious Return - to circa 2034.

It is evident from the tone and accusations of your posts, that you get some kind of gratification from knocking over soft targets. An Aussie trait.
What would be far more benefit to all concerned, would be positive comments and your idea of what will happen next.

This thread points out the many Prophesies about how the Christian believers will gather and live in all of the Holy Land. Before Jesus Returns.
A good Prophecy of this happening is in Psalms 107:1-43......Whoever is wise, let him take these things to heart.....

 

[Strong in Him]

Jesus said that Gods secrets are hidden from the wise and learned - Matthew 11:25
This fact is proved by how 'expert theologians' fail to agree amongst themselves.

Whereas everyone seems to disagree with you.

 

[keras]

Whereas everyone seems to disagree with you.

The people disagreed with the ancient Prophets too.
I promote what they said, so that is what I expect as well.

Does anyone really think that the Prophesies as Written in our Bibles, will never come to pass?
Who will actually occupy the Holy Land?
Psalms 37:29 The righteous peoples will possess the [Holy] land and will live there forever. Does anyone reject this?

The Prophetic Word is clear; the Holy peoples of God will be present in all of the Holy Land, BEFORE Jesus Returns. Revelation 7:9