Zions New Children

[Maria Billingsley]

So which of the 12 will rule over us in heaven, given Matthew 19:28?

I suppose you will answer "don't know and don't care"?

I will answer that there are no tribes who rule, just those who have been washed in Living Waters through Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
I do hope you understand.
Blessings.

 

[Guojing]

I will answer that there are no tribes who rule, just those who have been washed in Living Waters through Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
I do hope you understand.
Blessings.

So what did Jesus meant in Matthew 19:28?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

So what did Jesus meant in Matthew 19:28?

Those who follow Him will judge the 12 tribes.

 

[Guojing]

Those who follow Him will judge the 12 tribes.

Oh, so to you, that promise is not just to the 12, but anyone that follows Jesus, including us?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Oh, so to you, that promise is not just to the 12, but anyone that follows Jesus, including us?

Of course.

 

[Guojing]

Of course.

Interesting, thanks for sharing.

 

[eclipsenow]

Jesus said that Gods secrets are hidden from the wise and learned - Matthew 11:25

Been there, done that.
Yet no temple.

You asserted you had ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY because you were the special one.
It was like listening to Jake or Elwood.
"We're on a mission from God."

This fact is proved by how 'expert theologians' fail to agree amongst themselves.

And you futurists REALLY agree!
So evident here on these forums.
However, there is say 80% agreement amongst the Amil theologians I read.

Where there's almost 80 to 95% disagreement between your tribe of futurists.

No matter how stridently you assert you are superior to all other futurists.... you're one of them.
A dime a dozen.

Where's the temple?
Your "Timetable" is running out.
Your original "Holy Spirit" inspired one anyway.
That timetable you defended as an ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY as you basically called friends and clients of mine apostate, like the Pharisees.

Also - again you misunderstand most OT prophesies.
Only a FEW are actually about end times events.
Most are about gospel events - or heaven itself.
But in gospel events, they are either about....

The new people of God - the church.
The new river of God - Jesus - the water of life.
The new temple of God - Jesus - as his body crucified and raised again becomes the new temple "built" in 3 days.

All those thousands of hours of debates here, and endless words on your blog.
Wrong.
A waste of time.
Better to stick with the basics of the gospel - and sharing that.

Oh look - I found it! It's in Wonderland - where it should remain.
Jesus is our temple, our prophet, priest and king, our perfect sacrifice, our Moses showing us the new way, our redeemer kinsman, our saviour, our Lord, our brother, our ladder to heaven.

Rebuilding some temple in the middle east would be a blasphemy!

Tick tock buddy.
Your temple is late, late, for a very important date!

 

[keras]

Rebuilding some temple in the middle east would be a blasphemy!

Bible Prophecy clearly says there will be a new Temple in Jerusalem.
It will be built by people coming from far away and a world leader will desecrate it.

Denying these plainly stated Words, is to directly oppose Bible truths. You are the one in Lala land.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Don't negate the promise to Abraham of the "seed" which will never die which means ethnic Jews (biological descendants of Abraham). We don't replace Israel, as Paul says, we gentiles are grafted in. The original branches are still there and will always be.

Have you never read these verses...

Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ....

Galatians 3:29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[Delvianna]

Have you never read these verses...

Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ....

Galatians 3:29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Yes, but 1 the context is biological because of the promise and the 2nd the context is a concept based on spiritual. It's not the same context.

I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies, - Genesis 22:17

Descendants = seed but that is exactly why God established Isaac. And what did he say about Isaac?

Then God said: “No, Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac; I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his descendants after him. - Genesis 17:19

If the entire meaning was spiritual only, then that verse holds no purpose.

 

[Guojing]

Don't negate the promise to Abraham of the "seed" which will never die which means ethnic Jews (biological descendants of Abraham). We don't replace Israel, as Paul says, we gentiles are grafted in. The original branches are still there and will always be.

Abraham has physical descendants as well as spiritual descendants, so you are correct.

Abraham had 2 seed, spiritual and physical, while Jacob only has one seed, that is physical

God promised numerous descendants to Abraham in a number of places in Genesis

Genesis 12: 2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

Genesis 15 (our favourite passage): 5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.

6 And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

Genesis 17:4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.

5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

Genesis 22: 17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;

Notice how God specified to Abraham that his seed will be of 2 groups:

-Stars of the heaven
-Sand upon the sea shore.

While for Jacob, it was found in Genesis 28

12 And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it.

13 And, behold, the Lord stood above it, and said, I am the Lord God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed;

14 And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.

Here is the critical alteration in the promise of numerous descendants to Jacob can be found. While Abraham was promised seed that will be the stars of heaven, Jacob had no promise of that.

Instead, God promised Jacob specifically that his seed shall be as the dust of the earth

It is Jacob's seed that became Israel, which is also Abraham's physical seed.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Yes, but 1 the context is biological because of the promise and the 2nd the context is a concept based on spiritual. It's not the same context.


Descendants = seed but that is exactly why God established Isaac. And what did he say about Isaac?

If the entire meaning was spiritual only, then that verse holds no purpose.

I have no idea of what you're saying. Just because the meaning is spiritual doesn't mean it holds no purpose. That makes no sense. Why not just accept what the New Testament teaches about these things?

As for Isaac, have you never read this...

Galatians 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.

 

[Delvianna]

I have no idea of what you're saying. Just because the meaning is spiritual, doesn't mean it holds no purpose. That makes no sense. Why not just accept what the New Testament teaches about these things?

As for Isaac, have you never read this...

Galatians 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.

I'm saying the promise is not just spiritual but includes biological too but if it was only spiritual then you would have to disregard the verse I offered. NT = 50% of the info (spiritual Israel) OT = 50% of the info (biological Israeli's).

 

[Delvianna]

Abraham has physical descendants as well as spiritual descendants, so you are correct.

Abraham had 2 seed, spiritual and physical, while Jacob only has one seed, that is physical

God promised numerous descendants to Abraham in a number of places in Genesis

Genesis 12: 2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

Genesis 15 (our favourite passage): 5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.

6 And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

Genesis 17:4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.

5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

Genesis 22: 17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;

Notice how God specified to Abraham that his seed will be of 2 groups:

-Stars of the heaven
-Sand upon the sea shore.

While for Jacob, it was found in Genesis 28

12 And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it.

13 And, behold, the Lord stood above it, and said, I am the Lord God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed;

14 And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.

Here is the critical alteration in the promise of numerous descendants to Jacob can be found. While Abraham was promised seed that will be the stars of heaven, Jacob had no promise of that.

Instead, God promised Jacob specifically that his seed shall be as the dust of the earth

It is Jacob's seed that became Israel, which is also Abraham's physical seed.

I'll have to look into what you're saying, I'll get back to you at some point, I am way too brain dead right now to research lol but thank you for your thought out reply.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

I'm saying the promise is not just spiritual but includes biological too but if it was only spiritual then you would have to disregard the verse I offered. NT = 50% of the info (spiritual Israel) OT = 50% of the info (biological Israeli's).

I trust that Paul knew what he was talking about and am not going to insist that he left something out when talking about who the seed of Abraham are. Paul knew the OT much better than any of us do, but did not ever say anything like what you are saying.

 

[keras]

The absolute fact is that there is only ONE people of God. Who are His faithful Christian peoples by natural and Spiritual descent. John 17:20-23, +

Natural; by the fact of everyone living today, has some of Abrahams genes.
Spiritual; By accepting the Salvation offered by Jesus.

The truth of ‘born again’ Christians being the only People of God is summed up in a single sentence: Christ called a people together made up of Jews and Gentiles which would be one, not according to the flesh, but in the Spirit, and they would be the people of God.

Jesus Christ has made his followers into the whole People of God. The ministry of Jesus was to bring into existence a renewed people, in continuity with the Israel of old. Paul calls this new community ‘the Israel of God’. Galatians 6:16
Jesus symbolized his intention to do this by choosing the Twelve, Matthew 10:1-8, as representatives of the twelve tribes of Israel and as the foundation members of a renewed and mission minded community.

Christ called a people together made up from people of every tribe, race, nation and language, Revelation 5:9-10, who would be one, not according to the flesh, but in the Spirit, and they are now the Christian people of God. Seen by John in Revelation 7:9
This expanded People of God are bonded together by the sacrifice of the life of Jesus and the gift of his Spirit in their hearts, re-creating, directing, activating and motivating them from within. Paul’s letter to Titus speaks clearly of the influence of the Holy Spirit given at the rite of baptism, the first sacrament of Christian initiation:

Titus 3:5-7 From the goodness and loving kindness of God; our Saviour appeared and He saved us, not because of any works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit. This Spirit he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Saviour, so that, having been justified by his grace, we would become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

The clearest expression of the identity of the People of God of the New Covenant is found in 1 Peter 2:9-10 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s own people, in order that you may proclaim the mighty acts of him who called you out of darkness into his marvellous light. Once you were not a people, but now you are God’s people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.
Romans 9:24-26 We [Christians] are the recipients of God’s mercy, whom He has called from among the Jews and Gentiles, for as Hosea says: Those who were not My people, I will call My people…..sons of the Living God.