Do you keep the Sabbath? (poll)

[pasifika]

Freth posted, from the Holy God's Inspired Words, that it was "God's" Laws, commandments and Statutes that Abraham obeyed. And that it was the SAME "GOD" that gave Moses, "God's" Laws, Commandments and Statutes, that Abraham Obeyed.

So it seems Freth is speaking about "God's LAWS", God's Statutes, God's commandments. There is only ONE God, Yes?

As to the "LAW" that was ADDED 430 years after Abraham, "because of Transgressions of God's Commandments, Statutes and Laws", that would be the Levitical Priesthood Laws. Levi wasn't even Born yet in Abraham's time, so we know Abraham wasn't under the Levitical Priesthood Law. Therefore he was not required, by "God's Law", to take a goat to a Levite Priest, and kill it, before the remission of his sins could be provided for.

That "LAW" was not ADDED until 430 years after Abraham, and was only to be in force, until the True Lamb of God should come.

It was ADDED after the golden calf, (Transgression) when Moses went up on the mount the 2nd time to receive another Covenant after Israel broke the one God made with them on Mt. Sinai.

Ex. 19: 3 And Moses went up unto God, and the LORD called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel;

4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.

5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:

6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. "These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel".

7 And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him.

8 And "all the people" answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken "we will do". And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.

But the People broke this covenant with the golden calf, (Transgression Paul speaks to) and God was going to wipe them all out and make a great nation out of Moses. But Moses pleaded with God, and God showed them mercy and allowed Moses to go up a 2nd time, and God wrote the same Words that were on the first tablets. (God's Commandments) But HE ADDED a Priesthood Law concerning the remission of Sins that was to be in place until the Prophesied Messiah was to come. (Lev. 4) This is the Law Abraham was not given, as it wasn't "ADDED" until 430 years later.

The Law God gave to Abraham is the law of Faith Not the law given in Sinai which you're promoting. These are different laws. I hope you understand it.
They're both God's law since God gave it.

 

[Studyman]

The Pharisees we're teaching the old covenant law. But their problems is they don't really followed it. Their actions were far from what they taught.

But that isn't what Jesus or Isaiah taught. Please consider;

Matt. 15: 7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, "teaching for doctrines" the commandments of men.

Mark 7: 9 And he said unto them, Full well "ye reject the commandment of God", that ye may keep your own tradition.

Again read Matt 23

...Do what they say, But don't do what they do, for they don't practice what they preach..Matt 23:3

This is what the Pharisees we're promoting.

Yes, lets read what Jesus actually said;

Matt. 23: 1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat (This means they read the Book of Moses to the People) 3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, (They promote the Law of Moses) and do not.

4 For they (Pharisees, not God or Moses) bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and "lay them on men's shoulders"; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

And again;

13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for "ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men": for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them "that are entering to go in". (They persecuted the Church of God)

And again;

15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, "ye make him" twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

I could go on and one.

Jer. 23: 16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and "not out of the mouth of the LORD".

My friend, we have been placed by God in a world in which exists a religious system, just like Jesus and Paul were. In our time, one of the most deceitful and insidious lies ever promoted, that we both have been taught since our youth, is that the Pharisees were "Trying to earn Salvation by obeying God's Laws". Or that the Pharisees were trying to promote God's Laws to the Jews and the Gentiles. It's a horrible lie that has caused many to be deceived.

It is true that they "Professed to know God", and that as God showed us through Jeremiah, "I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied.

And Jesus Himself said to beware of the Leaven of the Pharisees. It was their teaching that led men astray, not God's Laws.

 

[Freth]

What law you talking about? Definitely not the law "given" at Sinai 430years later after God made a covenant with him. Galatians 3.

Do you know what law?

The Ten. God doesn't change. His counsel is immutable.

 

[Studyman]

The Law God gave to Abraham is the law of Faith Not the law given in Sinai which you're promoting. These are different laws. I hope you understand it.
They're both God's law since God gave it.

I know what this world's religious system promotes, I was just hoping you might consider what is actually written in Scriptures. God said Isaac was blessed, "Because" that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

This is the Law of Faith. Taking a goat to a Levite priest for the remission of ones sins is the "Law of Works". Remember what is written, "To obey is better than sacrifice".

But as the Pharisees show us, religious tradition is a powerful, seductive and intoxicating force. A much easier lifestyle than "Yielding oneself to God", and living by every Word of the Christ's Father. And falling on the Christ will break everyone who volunteers to do so. Such a teaching doesn't make for a good religious marketing strategy. That is why, in my understanding, the Path Jesus walked and instructed me to enter, is a narrow path, and few choose to enter it.

Nevertheless, it is my hope that you might consider what the Scriptures actually say, concerning whose LAWS the Pharisees promoted.

As the Pharisees themselves declared, "We have a law, and by our law he ought to die". To imply that God's Laws condemned Jesus to death is absurd. And yet, this is the implication of the philosophy promoted by "Many", who come in Christ's Name, saying that HE is truly the Christ.

 

[HIM]

The Law God gave to Abraham is the law of Faith Not the law given in Sinai which you're promoting. These are different laws. I hope you understand it.

Says nowhere in scripture. But in respect justification it has always been of faith.

 

[pasifika]

But that isn't what Jesus or Isaiah taught. Please consider;

Matt. 15: 7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, "teaching for doctrines" the commandments of men.

Mark 7: 9 And he said unto them, Full well "ye reject the commandment of God", that ye may keep your own tradition.




Yes, lets read what Jesus actually said;

Matt. 23: 1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat (This means they read the Book of Moses to the People) 3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, (They promote the Law of Moses) and do not.

4 For they (Pharisees, not God or Moses) bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and "lay them on men's shoulders"; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

And again;

13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for "ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men": for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them "that are entering to go in". (They persecuted the Church of God)

And again;

15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, "ye make him" twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

I could go on and one.

Jer. 23: 16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and "not out of the mouth of the LORD".

My friend, we have been placed by God in a world in which exists a religious system, just like Jesus and Paul were. In our time, one of the most deceitful and insidious lies ever promoted, that we both have been taught since our youth, is that the Pharisees were "Trying to earn Salvation by obeying God's Laws". Or that the Pharisees were trying to promote God's Laws to the Jews and the Gentiles. It's a horrible lie that has caused many to be deceived.

It is true that they "Professed to know God", and that as God showed us through Jeremiah, "I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied.

And Jesus Himself said to beware of the Leaven of the Pharisees. It was their teaching that led men astray, not God's Laws.

Yes, Jesus and Isaiah teach and promoting the Gospel.

The Pharisees on the other hand were teachers of the law of Moses or old covenant law.

You see the difference of the Gospel and the Law (OC) by comparing Jesus and Isaiah to the Pharisees?

 

[pasifika]

The Ten. God doesn't change. His counsel is immutable.

The 10 C was given later my friend why are you refuse to see it? Read Galatians 3.

The Gospel was always the law from the beginning and to the end Not the 10C. God doesn't change yes. Amen!

 

[pasifika]

Says nowhere in scripture. But in respect justification it has always been of faith.

It's everywhere in Scriptures you just don't see it. In fact Scripture is about Faith!

There is a law which requires Faith (in case of Abraham) and law requires works (OC followers ie Pharisees etc and Sabbatarian ) Romans 3

 

[Studyman]

Yes, Jesus and Isaiah teach and promoting the Gospel.

The Pharisees on the other hand were teachers of the law of Moses or old covenant law.

You see the difference of the Gospel and the Law (OC) by comparing Jesus and Isaiah to the Pharisees?

I know that you are preaching that the Pharisees were promoting the Law of Moses, and that Jesus and Isaiah, and Stephen and many others in the Holy scriptures teach me that they were not promoting the Law of Moses. In fact, the only people in the entire Bible that teaches that the Pharisees were promoting the Law of Moses, was the Pharisees themselves, who Jesus called "children of the devil".

But what else can I say. If you want to promote the teaching that the Pharisees were promoting God's Laws, you are free to do so. I have already shown you what the Jesus "of the bible" teaches about them.

Time for me to move on.

 

[HIM]

God said Isaac was blessed, "Because" that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

The obeying the voice of God is of the hearing of faith that Paul speaks of in Galatians 3. We know this to be true because verse 6 starts with the words “even as” when the spirit speaks of Abraham believing God. And all this is being said in respect to Paul speaking of us being dead but alive, yet not us but the Christ living in us. And the life we now live in the flesh we live by the faith OF the Son of God who gave himself for us. And this Faith is how we are justified. Because we Know that a man is not justified by the works of the law, if not (except) by the faith of Jesus Christ, as verse 2:16 says

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, if not (except) by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Galatians 3:4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
Galatians 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Galatians 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

 

[HIM]

It's everywhere in Scriptures you just don't see it. In fact Scripture is about Faith!

There is a law which requires Faith (in case of Abraham) and law requires works (OC followers ie Pharisees etc and Sabbatarian ) Romans 3

Says nowhere in scripture and you know it. Otherwise you would have posted it and not try to state Rom 3 says it.

 

[pasifika]

I know that you are preaching that the Pharisees were promoting the Law of Moses, and that Jesus and Isaiah, and Stephen and many others in the Holy scriptures teach me that they were not promoting the Law of Moses. In fact, the only people in the entire Bible that teaches that the Pharisees were promoting the Law of Moses, was the Pharisees themselves, who Jesus called "children of the devil".

But what else can I say. If you want to promote the teaching that the Pharisees were promoting God's Laws, you are free to do so. I have already shown you what the Jesus "of the bible" teaches about them.

Time for me to move on.

I can see you also promoting the law of Moses the OC law. I hope the Spirit will take that veil off in order to see the Glory of the Son through the Gospel.

 

[HIM]

I can see you also promoting the law of Moses the OC law. I hope the Spirit will take that veil off in order to see the Glory of the Son through the Gospel.

I see you are not actually addressing his points. Not that he is right or wrong but you haven’t posted anything that is objective that addresses anything he said.
Why post at all?

 

[pasifika]

Says nowhere in scripture and you know it. Otherwise you would have posted it and not try to state Rom 3 says it.

Romans 3:27 for the two laws (Faith & works) and Chapter 4 is regarding Abraham in respect to the two laws (works & Faith)

 

[HIM]

Romans 3:27 for the two laws (Faith & works) and Chapter 4 is regarding Abraham in respect to the two laws (works & Faith)

Not quite

 

[pasifika]

I see you are not actually addressing his points. Not that he is right or wrong but you haven’t posted anything that is objective that addresses anything he said.
Why post at all?

I did address it.

 

[pasifika]

Not quite

That's what I expected.

 

[HIM]

That's what I expected.

What? Show me on this page where you laid out a study that shows what you think. With that in mind, Why should I in respect to your posts? Don’t get me wrong I will a little later when I have a little more time. But please…

 

[Studyman]

The obeying the voice of God is of the hearing of faith that Paul speaks of in Galatians 3. We know this to be true because verse 6 starts with the words “even as” when the spirit speaks of Abraham believing God. And all this is being said in respect to Paul speaking of us being dead but alive, yet not us but the Christ living in us. And the life we now live in the flesh we live by the faith OF the Son of God who gave himself for us. And this Faith is how we are justified. Because we Know that a man is not justified by the works of the law, if not (except) by the faith of Jesus Christ, as verse 2:16 says

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, if not (except) by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

I agree. There was a Temporary LAW that was "ADDED" because of the golden calf, that Abraham didn't have, in which a man that sinned was required to take a goat to an anointed Levite Priest, and "kill it" before the Priest could provide for the remission of his sins. And this Law was to be in place, until the Prophesied "Lamb of God" should come. This added LAW, was to lead men with a repentant heart to Christ, which it did for Zacharias, Simeon and Anna, and untold others throughout history, including David, Shadrack and a host of other examples of Faithful men in the Holy Scriptures.

But the Pharisees, who Paul was contending with, didn't believe Jesus was the Christ, the Prophesied Messiah and even those who believed He was, were still requiring that the New converts should come to them, and adopt their religious traditions which Jesus exposed as commandments and traditions of men, not God.

Paul is explaining to the Gentiles that the Blood of goats and the Priesthood "Works of the Law" is not why they received the Spirit of understanding. It was their obedience to God, as Peter also teaches, which is called "Faith". When the same Gospel was given to the Israelites, most of them didn't believe God, and subsequently didn't "obey Him". Here is what God said about them.

Duet. 32: 15 But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness; then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation. 16 They provoked him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations provoked they him to anger. 17 They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not. 18 Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee.

19 And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, "because" of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters. 20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.

But Abraham believed God which resulted in obedience to Him, even when it meant offering up to God His most precious possession.

To confirm this, one should ask themselves, "When a man sinned, what Law did Moses tell them to engage in"? Did Moses say, "if a man sins, he shall keep the Sabbath holy and His sins are forgiven? No Him, he didn't. Did Moses say, "if a man sins he shall keep the 10 commandments and his sins are forgiven? No Sir, he didn't. None of these things were the "Works of the Law" that the Pharisees were still promoting for the remission of sins.

What did Moses say then, to the common man that sinned?

Lev. 4: 27 And if any one of the common people sin through ignorance, while he doeth somewhat against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and be guilty; 28 Or if his sin, which he hath sinned, come to his knowledge: then he shall bring his offering, a kid of the goats, a female without blemish, for his sin which he hath sinned. 29 And he shall lay his hand upon the head of the sin offering, and slay the sin offering in the place of the burnt offering. 30 And the priest shall take of the blood thereof with his finger, and put it upon the horns of the altar of burnt offering, and shall pour out all the blood thereof at the bottom of the altar. 31 And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat is taken away from off the sacrifice of peace offerings; and the priest shall burn it upon the altar for a sweet savour unto the LORD; and the priest shall make an atonement for him, and it shall be forgiven him.

This is the "Work of the Law", that was "ADDED" 430 years after Abraham, to provide for the remission of sins. And it was to lead the repentant heart to the true Lamb of God.

It was the ONLY LAW that addressed transgressions in the Law and Prophets. Abraham wasn't given this LAW because he made a covenant with God, and Kept it.

Gen. 26: 1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. 2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.

Paul understood that this was only a temporary LAW, that was added after the Golden Calf, (because of transgressions) and in his way explained as much to the Galatians.

Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the "works of the law", or by the hearing of faith?

The Galatians received the spirit because they obeyed God. Act's 1-5 is clear about that. But the Jews were promoting "works of the law" that had already come to an end, as Prophesied.

A Law that Abraham didn't have.

Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Are you so foolish having repented and "Yielded yourself a servant to obey God" from the heart, that you would adopt the traditions and philosophies of a religion that walked after the flesh and not the Spirit?

Galatians 3:4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

You fell on the Christ and were broken, you forsook the religions and traditions of your fathers, like Abraham did. Was this in vain?

Galatians 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Did Paul or Peter teach you to engage in the Old Priesthood "works of the Law" for the remission of your sins? Or by the hearing Faith, "that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.", as did Abraham?

Galatians 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

How do we know Abraham believed God? How does anyone know?

1 John 2: 1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. 3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

Is this not the true test of a man's Faith?

Let me know where you think I'm off the rails, if indeed you do. Thanks for the discussion.