The Thing Most Sabbath Keepers Do not Talk About.

[Hentenza]

Just your words sadly, against the plain Scripture, nothing new under the sun.

And yet you are still to post a single post crucifixion verse that teaches that the Christian is required to keep the 4th commandment. If the scriptures are so plain to you then it should not be a problem. Also, how about a verse in the NT that repeats the 4th commandment as being part of Jesus two love commandments as He did for the other nine commandments.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

3. The new covenant does not include the old 4th commandment.

That’s for God to decide. Not something you will find Him saying, I guess thats why you quoted “you“. God said He wrote His laws, in the hearts of His new covenant believers why the Sabbath is all over the NC- instead of being deleted. Same God, same laws, just written on a better surface if we cooperate Deut4:13 Psa89:34 2Cor3:3 Heb8:10 Mat5:19-30 , He changes not.

 

[Hentenza]

That’s for God to decide.

He already did.

Not something you will find Him saying, I guess thats why you quoted “you“. God said He wrote His laws, in the hearts of His new covenant believers why the Sabbath is all over the NC- instead of being deleted. Same God, same laws Deut4:13 Psa89:34 2Cor3:3 Heb8:10 Mat5:19-30 , He changes not.

He did change in purpose by sending His beloved Son to die for our sins and ushering the new covenant. You can’t continue to ignore the terms of God’s new covenant.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

He already did.

Not according to Him. Only the location changed not the words as God promised Psa89:34 Mat5:18-19. It’s impossible for God to lie. Heb6:18

He did change in purpose by sending His beloved Son to die for our sins and ushering the new covenant. You can’t continue to ignore the terms of God’s new covenant.

Heb8:6,Heb8:10 2Cor3:3 clearly. Defined by God, not us.

Taking away God’s sanctification Eze 20:12 is not a better promise, its a death sentence trying to do that ourselves Isaiah66:17
What God blessed Exo20:11 Isa59:2 man cannot reverse Numbers 23:20 because we are not God, nor ever will be.

Psa 119:2 Blessed are those who keep His testimonies, Who seek Him with the whole heart!

Psa 106:3 Blessed are those who keep justice, And he who does righteousness at all times!

IIsa:56:1 Thus says the Lord:
Keep justice, and do righteousness,
For My salvation is about to come,
And My righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man who does this, (not something God does, something man does)
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,

Doing righteousness and justice is the foundation of His throne Psa89:14 Exo31:18 Rev15:5 What God deems as righteous does not change Psa119:142

I guess we will find out soon enough.

Be well.

 

[HIM]

You wrote it yourself, but it's hardly original.

You might as well said nothing. All you done was make a subjective comment about the post without addressing the facts stated. Why bother?

 

[Hentenza]

Not according to Him. Only the location changed not the words as God promised Psa89:34 Mat5:18-19

Yes according to Him. Your interpretation of the verses you cite is what is in error. If you interpret Matt. 5:18-19 to mean that we are to follow commandments of the the law then Jesus sacrifice was for not. The commandments of God have been summarized in Jesus two love commandments except for the 4th commandment which He fulfilled in His person specifically by becoming the Lord of the sabbath and giving us His rest. So you see, Matt. 5:18-19 is perfectly correct.

Heb8:6,Heb8:10 2Cor3:3 clearly. Defined by God, not us.

Right. And again your interpretation fails. Rest in Jesus not in the Jewish sabbath.

Taking away God’s sanctification Eze 20:12 is not a better promise, its a death sentence trying to do that ourselves Isaiah66:17
What God blessed Exo20:11 Isa59:2 man cannot reverse Numbers 23:20 because we are not God, nor ever will we be.

All verses relating the sabbath ONLY to Israel not to the Christian.

 

[timewerx]

The Sabbath sits right there in the Ten Commandments. In fact, it has become the icon of the Law for many Sabbatarians. It is the punchline of many moralistic arguments and the centerpiece of Sabbatarian doctrine. To them, it is to be kept just as strictly as any of the other nine commandments. Yet the others carry natural, immediate consequences when violated. For example, if I kill someone, I may be killed myself or imprisoned for the rest of my life. If I covet my neighbor’s wife, I may end up in the hospital or the morgue. Sabbath breaking, however, has no such visible consequence. That creates a battleground where Christians often cross swords.

What fascinates me most is how people use the broad platitude “keep the Sabbath,” even to the point of wearing the label “Sabbath Keeper.” It certainly comes with the temptation to look down on those not “discerning enough” to agree with Sabbath keeping, and it can be an ego boost for those who enjoy a sense of spiritual superiority. Not all are like that, of course. There are many sincere Sabbath keepers who do so with humility and love, considering themselves no better than anyone else.

Yet for most who carry the label, the one thing they rarely address is the specifics of true Sabbath keeping. The moment one asks “How should it actually be practiced?” disagreements erupt. The Sabbath-keeping community is deeply divided over what is appropriate and what is not. It is far easier to remain in the comfort of the broad label than to open the can of worms and define the boundaries. Still, if Sabbath keeping is truly salvific, should the precise observance of it not be extremely important? One would hate to wear the label all their life only to discover they had been doing it wrong.

I could give examples, but for now, I will leave the worms in that can a little longer.

Jesus broke the Sabbath. These verses can't be explained away.

John 5:16-18

16 So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jewish leaders began to persecute him. 17 In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” 18 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

I'm with Jesus here.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Jesus broke the Sabbath. These verses can't be explained away.

John 5:16-18

16 So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jewish leaders began to persecute him. 17 In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” 18 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

I'm with Jesus here.

This is one of the saddest teaching people try to make, its basically crucifying Jesus all over again.

Jesus never broke God's Sabbath, He broke the man-made sabbath that the Jews made up. Adding their own man-made rules when we are clearly told not to add to or subtract from Deut4:2 Pro30:5-6

It was never a sin to help someone who was sick or in need of help on the Sabbath. His accusers were not from God. John8:44-47

Jesus in His own words said He never sinned

John 8: 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”

Jesus kept all of the commandments and tells us to as well

John15: 10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

 

[Servus]

You might as well said nothing. All you done was make a subjective comment about the post without addressing the facts stated. Why bother?

Very well.

The Bible has the answers.

Exodus 20:8-11 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

• Remember
• Keep it holy
• Work six days
• Rest the seventh day

Nehemiah 10:31 And if the people of the land bring ware or any victuals on the sabbath day to sell, that we would not buy it of them on the sabbath, or on the holy day: and that we would leave the seventh year, and the exaction of every debt.

• Do not buy or sell

Nehemiah 13:19 And it came to pass, that when the gates of Jerusalem began to be dark before the sabbath, I commanded that the gates should be shut, and charged that they should not be opened till after the sabbath: and some of my servants set I at the gates, that there should no burden be brought in on the sabbath day.

• Do not work

Isaiah 58:13-14 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: Then shalt thou delight thyself in the Lord; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.

• Do not travel
• Do not do your own ways
• Do not find your own pleasure
• Do not speak your own words

Conclusion: The answer is no on all points, because you're doing your own ways, buying/selling, finding your own pleasure or doing work. If you need a fire for heat then make a fire. If you're doing it for the pleasure of it, I would refrain from it on the Sabbath. If you shouldn't do your own ways/pleasure on the Sabbath or speak your own words, then what is it you should do and speak? What pleases God, what glorifies Him. "Remember to keep it holy." Also: Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

1 Corinthians 10:31 says "So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God".

 

[Carl Emerson]

Regarding John 5:18

18 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

John, the author of the gospel, said Jesus was breaking the Sabbath - that is good enough for me.

I couldn't find any translation that disagreed with this.

He did this while being sinless because He was seeing What the Father was doing and being obedient to His higher 'Law of the Spirit'.

The Law served a purpose but was not able to specify righteousness in every circumstance.

Another good example of this was His refusal to comply with the Law and have the adulterous woman stoned.

Jesus obeyed the will of the Father in the Power of the Spirit.

Galatians 5:18
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

 

[Servus]

Regarding John 5:18

John, the author of the gospel, said Jesus was breaking the Sabbath - that is good enough for me.

I couldn't find any translation that disagreed with this.

The sabbath was being broken when Jesus and his disciples were out gathering wheat on the sabbath. Matthew 12:1-2

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Regarding John 5:18

18 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

John, the author of the gospel, said Jesus was breaking the Sabbath - that is good enough for me.

I couldn't find any translation that disagreed with this.

He did this while being sinless because He was seeing What the Father was doing and being obedient to His higher 'Law of the Spirit'.

The Law served a purpose but was not able to specify righteousness in every circumstance.

Another good example of this was His refusal to comply with the Law and have the adulterous woman stoned.

Jesus obeyed the will of the father in the Power of the Spirit.

Jesus said it was Lawful to do good on the Sabbath. Mat12:12 healing people who were sick on the Sabbath is and never was a sin, it was a law of the Jews, not a law of God.


If you are believing the accusations of the Pharisees over what Jesus said, than it means Jesus deserved the death penalty, could not be our Savior and was not God.


We can't pick and choose which accusation you agree with and which one you do not. If you believe the accusation of Him breaking God's Sabbath was true, also means the accusation of Him not being equal to God was true too.

Sad teachings. Its really an attack on the character of Jesus and not believing Him at His own Words.


John 8: 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”

1 Peter 2:21 For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for [e]us, leaving [f]us an example, that you should follow His steps:

22 “Who committed no sin,
Nor was deceit found in His mouth”;

Galatians 5:18
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

And if you read the next verses under the law doesn't mean not keeping the law. Paul went on to say those who break it will not inherit the Kingdom of God. Just as Jesus said 1John3:4 James2:11-12 Heb10:26-30 Mat7:21-23 Rev22:14-15

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Very well.


1 Corinthians 10:31 says "So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God".

Do you apply this to the commandment not to commit adultery as well?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The sabbath was being broken when Jesus and his disciples were out gathering wheat on the sabbath. Matthew 12:1-2

They were not gathering wheat they were eating the heads of grain because they were hungry. Its not a sin to eat on the Sabbath, no different than picking a piece of fruit in the garden and eating. Sadly this is a misunderstanding and misrepresentation of God.

Mat 12:1 At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. And His disciples were hungry, and began to pluck heads of grain and to eat.

Jesus said they were guiltless, but I find it interesting people would condemn them and take the side of the Pharisees when Jesus did not. Mat12:7

Jesus is not a hypocrite either. Holding the Pharisees to a higher standard than He held Himself or His apostles.

Jesus condemned the Pharisees for breaking the laws from the same unit - breaking one you break them all James 2:11 so no Jesus did not bend the rules for Him and His apostles Mat15:1-14 Mark7:7-13 while condemning others. Its just a very sad misunderstanding of the Scriptures and the charachter of God.

 

[Servus]

Do you apply this to the commandment not to commit adultery as well?

It applies to whatever one does as stated.

Conclusion: The answer is no on all points, because you're doing your own ways, buying/selling, finding your own pleasure or doing work. If you need a fire for heat then make a fire. If you're doing it for the pleasure of it, I would refrain from it on the Sabbath. If you shouldn't do your own ways/pleasure on the Sabbath or speak your own words, then what is it you should do and speak? What pleases God, what glorifies Him. "Remember to keep it holy." Also: Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

"Whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God". This means whatever you do 24/7.

 

[Servus]

They were not gathering wheat they were eating the heads of grain because they were hungry. Its not a sin to eat on the Sabbath, no different than picking a piece of fruit in the garden and eating. Sadly this is a misunderstanding and misrepresentation of God.

Mat 12:1 At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. And His disciples were hungry, and began to pluck heads of grain and to eat.

Jesus said they were guiltless, but I find it interesting people would condemn them and take the side of the Pharisees when Jesus did not. Mat12:7

Jesus is not a hypocrite either. Holding the Pharisees to a higher standard than He held Himself or His apostles.

Jesus condemned the Pharisees for breaking the laws from the same unit - breaking one you break them all James 2:11 so no Jesus did not bend the rules for Him and His apostles Mat15:1-14 Mark7:7-13 while condemning others. Its just a very sad misunderstanding of the Scriptures and the charachter of God.

Nope, they were gathering grain the same as the man who was gathering sticks Numbers 15:32-36

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Nope, they were gathering grain the same as the man who was gathering sticks Numbers 15:32-36

Do you understand the difference between gathering and picking? Gathering is harvesting, working, it was never a sin to eat on the Sabbath. Why Jesus said they were guiltless

Can you show me where it says they were gathering in this verse please?


Mat 12:1 At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. And His disciples were hungry, and began to pluck heads of grain and to eat.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

It applies to whatever one does as stated.

"Whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God". This means whatever you do 24/7.

So we can worship other gods and break the first commandment and all is good.

Guess we shall see how that works out.

 

[Servus]

Do you understand the difference between gathering and picking? Gathering is harvesting, working, it was never a sin to eat on the Sabbath. Why Jesus said they were guiltless

Can you show me where it says they were gathering in this verse please?


Mat 12:1 At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. And His disciples were hungry, and began to pluck heads of grain and to eat.

Picking up sticks, picking heads of wheat. Both are labor.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Picking up sticks, picking heads of wheat. Both are labor.

No, its not.

Its never been a sin to eat on the Sabbath.

Its a sin to labor on the Sabbath. They were not laboring, they were walking with Jesus hungry eating the tops of grain, no different than eating a berry on the Sabbath. Its a misunderstanding of the Sabbath and God. You will not find one verse in the Bible that its a sin to eat on the Sabbath.

Why Jesus said His apostles were guiltless, not because He let sinning slide, but because they were not guilty of what the Pharisees were accusing them of, breaking their man-made sabbath.