Who then can be saved?

[Dan1988]

I’ve never refuted predestination at all. We are chosen according to God’s foreknowledge, according to His prognosis. The word predestined means to choose or appoint beforehand, to preordain. I’ve never refuted that at all. We were chosen according to His foreknowledge before the foundation of the world and written in the book of life. How is that not predestination?

Wow, it's taken you a long time to come out of the closet and admit that God predestined people to salvation before He created the earth. He wrote the names of every single one of His elect in the book of life.
Then you would also believe that no names can be taken out of His book, nor can any names be added. So His chosen were decided before time began.

If you believe all that, then many will label you a hyper Calvinist, how do you feel about that.

 

[Dan1988]

Then by all means please do provide an accurate interpretation of the passage.

Genesis 6:5-6 emphasizes that humanity's "imaginations" were continuously and wholly evil, a result of a deeply corrupted human heart that grieved God.
This passage is not evidence that God changes His mind or that His creation was a mistake, but it's an expression of God's sorrow over sin and its destructive effects. God's "regret" is a human-like expression of His pain at the rebellion and perversion of what He had made.

 

[Dan1988]

So then what do you do with the passages that say that Noah, Job, Abraham, Lot, and Zachariah were righteous men?

Those men were exactly the same as myself, we are all born again Christians, who God quickened out of our state of death in sin and He regenerated us, gave us the gift of faith and the rest is History.

The only difference between myself and those men, is that they placed their God given faith in the coming Messiah and I place my faith in the Messiah who has come and is to return, but He is One and the same Saviour and Redeemer.

John 17:9 "I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours".

Notice how Jesus doesn't even pray for the world at all, He only prays for those whom the Father gave Him. In other words He only prays for the elect of God.
This idea that Jesus attempted to save every single person is false, if that's what He set out to do then He's a loser, who failed in His mission.

Don't try to use John 3:16 tom say that God tried and failed to save the whole world. That verse was confirming that God is not only going to save the Jews, but He will save people from every tribe and tongue, in other words (people from all over the world) Not every single person in thew world. We know that Jesus is going to cast many professing Christians into hell, so He certainly didn't die for them.

 

[fhansen]

Sorry, but the Bible does not support your view that "we must do this or that, in order to be saved". The Bible never ever says this anywhere.

No, you’ve simply summarily rejected any passage that says otherwise.

 

[BNR32FAN]

What's with the false accusations, where did you get the notion that I follow some 16th century theologians. I'd be interested to know, who lied to you and why you believe what slanderers say.

Yeah, it’s called Calvinism and reformed theology for a reason, because they didn’t exist before the 16th century. So how is that a false accusation? I mean unload you can show a church that taught it before the 16th century.

 

[BNR32FAN]

You presented no evidence, I don't believe in those men you follow. I only follow the Lord Jesus, you can have those wise guys all to yourself

No you said that free will came from Gnosticism.

Man has no free will, that's something the Gnostics conjured up, but there's nothing in the bible to support such a silly idea.

So show us where you got that information from?

And you claim that I didn’t provide any evidence of what the early church taught when I quoted an early church theologian who was a disciple of Polycarp who was a disciple of John. I don’t know maybe you’re confusing the definition of evidence with the definition of proof but they’re not the same thing.

 

[BNR32FAN]

That's right, Genesis 6:5-6 doesn't say any such silly thing. Why are you obsessed with making stuff up. Don't you know that those who add or take away from Gods Word will suffer all of the plagues described in the book of Revelation. Yes that includes the lake of fire.

Where does it say that "God doesn't desire for man to sin",,,, answer NOWHERE!!!

Yet it says that God was grieved in His heart. Not only that but you also have Ezekiel 33:11 where God Himself says that He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked and wants them to repent and live.

“Say to them, ‘As I live!’ declares the Lord God, ‘I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn back, turn back from your evil ways! Why then will you die, O house of Israel?’”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭33‬:‭11‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

So you can ignore these verses but the fact remains that they are scripture whether you accept them or not v

 

[BNR32FAN]

Wow, it's taken you a long time to come out of the closet and admit that God predestined people to salvation before He created the earth. He wrote the names of every single one of His elect in the book of life.
Then you would also believe that no names can be taken out of His book, nor can any names be added. So His chosen were decided before time began.

If you believe all that, then many will label you a hyper Calvinist, how do you feel about that.

Lol that’s hilarious, you completely overlooked the fact the He chose them according to His foreknowledge. That a very important factor the keep in mind. So what did God foreknow that influenced His decision on choosing them? Well for one thing we have to abide in Christ and endure to the end. So I’d say that is what He foreknew that influenced His decision. That’s my theory, what’s your’s?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Genesis 6:5-6 emphasizes that humanity's "imaginations" were continuously and wholly evil, a result of a deeply corrupted human heart that grieved God.
This passage is not evidence that God changes His mind or that His creation was a mistake, but it's an expression of God's sorrow over sin and its destructive effects. God's "regret" is a human-like expression of His pain at the rebellion and perversion of what He had made.

I never said He changed His mind about anything. The passage says that God grieved in His heart because man was so evil. That automatically tells us that God did not want man to sin. To say otherwise is just downright illogical.

 

[Dan1988]

No, you’ve simply summarily rejected any passage that says otherwise.

No, your rejecting the truth and you can't find a single scripture to support your Arminian "saved by works" version of the gospel.
I have asked you to find a single verse to support it, but you have consistently failed to find any. It's not good enough to claim that such scriptures exist and then refuse to identify them. That doesn't help your cause at all, it actually does great damage to it

 

[Dan1988]

Yeah, it’s called Calvinism and reformed theology for a reason, because they didn’t exist before the 16th century. So how is that a false accusation? I mean unload you can show a church that taught it before the 16th century.

Yes, I'm aware that John Calvin and the Reformers lived in the 16th century. What's so amazing about that, nobody is suggesting that they possessed immortality, so your point is mute.

You are a false accuser, because I never claimed to follow any men. I know you have placed your faith in man made religion, but you have no evidence that I do.

Jesus Himself taught "predestination to salvation", yes He taught the exact same gospel as the Reformers. So that destroys your accusation right there.
I will denounce my faith in Christ, and join your religion, if you find any evidence that Jesus didn't teach "election, and predestination to salvation" and God chose His elect before He created the earth.

Now you need to either find evidence to support your accusation, or you should repent

 

[Dan1988]

No you said that free will came from Gnosticism.


So show us where you got that information from?

And you claim that I didn’t provide any evidence of what the early church taught when I quoted an early church theologian who was a disciple of Polycarp who was a disciple of John. I don’t know maybe you’re confusing the definition of evidence with the definition of proof but they’re not the same thing.

I asked you for some evidence to support your "free will" and "free choice" theories. You provided no credible evidence, I don't accept the opinion of some obscure 2nd century Gnostic, self proclaimed Theologian.

I made it clear to you that, I don't believe that the opinions of fallen men are not the final authority. I believe God is the final authority, especially when those men you follow contradict everything that God has said.

 

[Dan1988]

Yet it says that God was grieved in His heart. Not only that but you also have Ezekiel 33:11 where God Himself says that He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked and wants them to repent and live.

“Say to them, ‘As I live!’ declares the Lord God, ‘I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn back, turn back from your evil ways! Why then will you die, O house of Israel?’”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭33‬:‭11‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

So you can ignore these verses but the fact remains that they are scripture whether you accept them or not v

You have failed to find a single verse to support your opinion once more. There's no point in referring to unrelated verses which say nothing of the sort and trying to twist their meaning to force them to say what they are not saying.

You would get more respect if you just admitted that, no such verse exists and that theory was based on your religions denominational bias.

The latest stats show there are 49,000 Christian Denominations in 2025, many of these hold to radically opposing theological views, and interpretations of the Bible. Your Denomination is one of those 49,000 so don't worry too much about it. They can't all be right while they remain vehemently opposed to each other.

 

[Dan1988]

Lol that’s hilarious, you completely overlooked the fact the He chose them according to His foreknowledge. That a very important factor the keep in mind. So what did God foreknow that influenced His decision on choosing them? Well for one thing we have to abide in Christ and endure to the end. So I’d say that is what He foreknew that influenced His decision. That’s my theory, what’s your’s?

Yours sounds like a wonderful philosophy, but it doesn't pass the lightness test when we shine the light of the Bible on it.
Here's why, you hinge your view on "Gods foreknowledge" as if God looked down the corridors of time and saw Johnny helping the old lady cross the street, and decided right there and then that Johnny is a good boy so he deserves to be saved.

The Bible doesn't support this view, because God's election is not a response to His foreknowledge of who will believe, but rather an act of His sovereign will.
God doesn't merely foresee a future choice by humans; instead, He graciously and proactively chooses those He will save, and His election is the cause of their saving faith, not a result of it.
God is the ultimate "chooser," while your view makes man the ultimate chooser, which is to undermine God's sovereignty and grace.

When God set His love upon certain individuals, it wasn't because He simply knew the future outcome of human free will, but it was an active, loving choice before the world began.

Salvation is God's initiative, not man's response. If election were based on foreseen faith, then God would be responding to man's choice rather than initiating salvation himself. The Bible consistently presents election as being grounded in God's purpose and grace, not human action.

God's election is the cause of a person's faith, not the other way around. Because of God's sovereign choice, the Holy Spirit regenerates the individual, making them "alive" to God and enabling them to believe. Without this divine enablement, people are considered spiritually dead and unable to choose Christ on their own.

I could have included a long list of Bible verses to support the Bible doctrine of "election and predestination to salivation", but the reply would be too long to fit here. If you would like the list, I can spread it over a few separate posts.

 

[Dan1988]

I never said He changed His mind about anything. The passage says that God grieved in His heart because man was so evil. That automatically tells us that God did not want man to sin. To say otherwise is just downright illogical.

This brings us back to the fact that Gods ways are mysterious and beyond finding out. We can't process or figure out how God is able to remain Sovereign over all things and allow evil to exist at the same time.

I'm won't be able to give you an answer which you can take in bite size pieces and digest, because God has hidden many things from us and that is one of them. The Bible warns us not to presume upon the Lord, you would agree this means that we should not fll in the blanks in those areas where God has not revealed His way to us.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Yes, I'm aware that John Calvin and the Reformers lived in the 16th century. What's so amazing about that, nobody is suggesting that they possessed immortality, so your point is mute.

You are a false accuser, because I never claimed to follow any men. I know you have placed your faith in man made religion, but you have no evidence that I do.

Jesus Himself taught "predestination to salvation", yes He taught the exact same gospel as the Reformers. So that destroys your accusation right there.
I will denounce my faith in Christ, and join your religion, if you find any evidence that Jesus didn't teach "election, and predestination to salvation" and God chose His elect before He created the earth.

Now you need to either find evidence to support your accusation, or you should repent

You did specifically refer to yourself as a Calvinist.

To the contrary, us Calvinists are free in Christ, whilst your Armenians are on Satan's short leash and you hate us because God saved us and not you guys. It's true, jealousy is a curse, but thankfully your jealousy towards the Elect Saints of God like me, is harmless to us. It only condemns you to the lake of fire, I have already inherited eternal life in paradise. So dogs can bark all they like, nothing can change the facts.

So my claim that you follow 16th century theologians is in fact true according to your own words.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Yes, I'm aware that John Calvin and the Reformers lived in the 16th century. What's so amazing about that, nobody is suggesting that they possessed immortality, so your point is mute.

You are a false accuser, because I never claimed to follow any men. I know you have placed your faith in man made religion, but you have no evidence that I do.

Jesus Himself taught "predestination to salvation", yes He taught the exact same gospel as the Reformers. So that destroys your accusation right there.
I will denounce my faith in Christ, and join your religion, if you find any evidence that Jesus didn't teach "election, and predestination to salvation" and God chose His elect before He created the earth.

Now you need to either find evidence to support your accusation, or you should repent

And I’ve already told you that I believe in predestination. But what Jesus and the apostles never taught is 4 of the 5 Tulip doctrines, with the exception of predestination. All 4 of them can be refuted with the following passages.

“What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭9‬:‭22‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

God has patience with the vessels of destruction.

“Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2‬:‭4‬-‭5‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

God’s patience with the unrepentant is leading them to repentance.

“Say to them, ‘As I live!’ declares the Lord God, ‘I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn back, turn back from your evil ways! Why then will you die, O house of Israel?’”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭33‬:‭11‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Again God doesn’t want the wicked to die, He wants them to repent.

“The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3‬:‭9‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Again God doesn’t want anyone to perish, He wants all to repent.

These passages contradict the first 4 doctrines of Tulip.

 

[BNR32FAN]

You have failed to find a single verse to support your opinion once more. There's no point in referring to unrelated verses which say nothing of the sort and trying to twist their meaning to force them to say what they are not saying.

You would get more respect if you just admitted that, no such verse exists and that theory was based on your religions denominational bias.

The latest stats show there are 49,000 Christian Denominations in 2025, many of these hold to radically opposing theological views, and interpretations of the Bible. Your Denomination is one of those 49,000 so don't worry too much about it. They can't all be right while they remain vehemently opposed to each other.

So again you just ignored scripture. Not surprising. I quoted Ezekiel 33:11 and you just ignore it.

“Say to them, ‘As I live!’ declares the Lord God, ‘I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn back, turn back from your evil ways! Why then will you die, O house of Israel?’”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭33‬:‭11‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

You claim that this verse doesn’t refute your theology but you refuse to explain how it doesn’t contradict your theology because you can’t. So you just ignore it so that you don’t have to go thru the trouble of trying to explain something that you can’t explain.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Yours sounds like a wonderful philosophy, but it doesn't pass the lightness test when we shine the light of the Bible on it.
Here's why, you hinge your view on "Gods foreknowledge" as if God looked down the corridors of time and saw Johnny helping the old lady cross the street, and decided right there and then that Johnny is a good boy so he deserves to be saved.

The Bible doesn't support this view, because God's election is not a response to His foreknowledge of who will believe, but rather an act of His sovereign will.
God doesn't merely foresee a future choice by humans; instead, He graciously and proactively chooses those He will save, and His election is the cause of their saving faith, not a result of it.
God is the ultimate "chooser," while your view makes man the ultimate chooser, which is to undermine God's sovereignty and grace.

When God set His love upon certain individuals, it wasn't because He simply knew the future outcome of human free will, but it was an active, loving choice before the world began.

Salvation is God's initiative, not man's response. If election were based on foreseen faith, then God would be responding to man's choice rather than initiating salvation himself. The Bible consistently presents election as being grounded in God's purpose and grace, not human action.

God's election is the cause of a person's faith, not the other way around. Because of God's sovereign choice, the Holy Spirit regenerates the individual, making them "alive" to God and enabling them to believe. Without this divine enablement, people are considered spiritually dead and unable to choose Christ on their own.

I could have included a long list of Bible verses to support the Bible doctrine of "election and predestination to salivation", but the reply would be too long to fit here. If you would like the list, I can spread it over a few separate posts.

Oh, maybe you’re not familiar with 1 Peter 1:1-2?

“Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭1‬:‭1‬-‭2‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

 

[BNR32FAN]

This brings us back to the fact that Gods ways are mysterious and beyond finding out. We can't process or figure out how God is able to remain Sovereign over all things and allow evil to exist at the same time.

I'm won't be able to give you an answer which you can take in bite size pieces and digest, because God has hidden many things from us and that is one of them. The Bible warns us not to presume upon the Lord, you would agree this means that we should not fll in the blanks in those areas where God has not revealed His way to us.

No, the reality is that YOU CAN’T UNDERSTAND IT, not me. I have no problem understanding it at all because in my theology man is responsible for his disobedience. In your theology God is responsible for it. That’s why you can’t explain Genesis 6:5-6 and Ezekiel 33:11, because you’d have to set aside your doctrines in order to understand them but you’re not willing to do that because the scriptures take a backseat to your doctrines. Your doctrines are dictating your interpretation of scripture instead of the scriptures dictating your doctrines.