God gives us the power to choose

[BNR32FAN]

If we can't change our hearts, control our thoughts, impulses, or affections, or make ourselves pure and ready for His service, what EXACTLY are we choosing?

Nowhere does the Bible say that we cannot humble ourselves to God and repent.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The problem with your private opinions is, they are not supported by the Bible. You twisted Romans 3:10-12 way out of it's intended context, to the point that you make it say something completely different.

No that’s incorrect, my interpretation is supported by the scriptures.

“See, I have set before you today life and prosperity, and death and adversity; in that I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in His ways and to keep His commandments and His statutes and His judgments, that you may live and multiply, and that the Lord your God may bless you in the land where you are entering to possess it. But if your heart turns away and you will not obey, but are drawn away and worship other gods and serve them, I declare to you today that you shall surely perish. You will not prolong your days in the land where you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess it. I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,”

‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30‬:‭15‬-‭19‬ ‭NASB1995

In the passage above God Himself makes is absolutely clear that we have the ability to choose either life or death, either blessing or curse. He Himself has placed the choice before us. So you can’t say that my interpretation is not supported anywhere in the scriptures because it is supported right here. ‬‬

Romans 3:10-12 is a quote from Psalms 14:1-3 and Psalms 53:1-3 which are proverbial passages. Let’s examine them and determine whether or not they are intended to be taken literally or if they are intended to be proverbial shall we?

Heres verse 4 the very next verse after the portion Paul quoted.

“Do all the workers of wickedness not know, Who eat up my people as they eat bread, And do not call upon the Lord?”
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭14‬:‭4‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Is the author talking about cannibals? Are all wicked people cannibals? Is that statement intended to be taken literally?

The same statement is made in Psalms 53:4. It’s a proverbial saying that is not intended to be taken literally. If verses 1-3 were intended to be taken literally then they would include Paul and every single person who ever lived.

No one is righteous
No one understands
No one does good
No one seeks God
They have all become useless

These statements include everyone in the present tense which would include Paul, the rest of the apostles and everyone. The scriptures specifically state that some men were righteous. Noah, Job, Abraham, are a few examples.

You’re formulating a doctrine based on proverbial poetry from the Psalms that is not intended to be taken literally and should be obvious to someone such as yourself who knows that there are passages that contradict the literal reading of these verses.

If you’re going to read the Psalms as literal passages you’re going to have a hard time reconciling Psalms 37:23 with Romans 3:10-12.

“The steps of a man are established by the Lord, And He delights in his way.”
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭37‬:‭23‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Does God delight in the wicked? If all are wicked as Romans 3:10-12 says and their steps are established by God and He delights in their way then that is a lot of contradiction going on there.

Did Jesus take Psalms 14:1-3 and Psalms 53:1-3 literally?

“The good man brings out of his good treasure what is good; and the evil man brings out of his evil treasure what is evil.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭12‬:‭35‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

What good man? According to the Psalms there are no good men.

“And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭10‬:‭18‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Is Jesus contradicting Himself here? No He’s not, man can do good only when he cooperates with God.

Barnabas was said to be a good man.

“The news about them reached the ears of the church at Jerusalem, and they sent Barnabas off to Antioch. Then when he arrived and witnessed the grace of God, he rejoiced and began to encourage them all with resolute heart to remain true to the Lord; for he was a good man, and full of the Holy Spirit and of faith. And considerable numbers were brought to the Lord.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭11‬:‭22‬-‭24‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

He was a good man because he was filled with the Holy Spirit and he acted in cooperation with Him. Barnabas didn’t spend his time grieving the Holy Spirit, he spent his time serving Him. He had the same choice as everyone else, he had to choose to serve the Holy Spirit, it doesn’t come automatically otherwise we wouldn’t be able to grieve the Holy Spirit and we would never sin. The passage you’re reading in Romans 3:10-12 is not intended to be taken literally and there is an abundance of evidence in the scriptures that prove this.

 

[BNR32FAN]

So, please don't insult my intelligence by trying to pull the wool over my eyes. The scriptures clearly says, "for all have sinned", it doesn't say "for most have sinned".

I never said otherwise. There’s a huge difference between saying that we are able to repent and saying that some people never sinned. Those statements are completely unassociated with one another. They’re two completely different statements.

 

[Mercy Shown]

If we can't change our hearts, control our thoughts, impulses, or affections, or make ourselves pure and ready for His service, what EXACTLY are we choosing?

The choice is to either resist or submit. God grants us either, but one way leads to eternal destruction while the other to eternal life. If you claim that there is nothing we can do to be saved, then the opposite is also true; there is nothing you can do to be damned. You are just a toy to be batted around. Calvinists cannot justify the obvious implications of their beliefs. All they can do is cry out, "That's not what we are saying." even though it is exactly what they are saying.

If I am dying and lost on a mountainside, but I can get a signal on my phone. I can choose to call for help, I cannot engender myself, or I can ignore the phone and die.

Even then, God revealed to me the knowledge of my condition and gave me the power to choose. But the choice is mine. The paraplegic man at the pool was told to take up his bed and walk. Jesus did not carry him around for the rest of his life. The man still could have remained at the pool, not walking because now he had a choice, whereas before, he did not.

 

[HarleyER]

The choice is to either resist or submit. God grants us either, but one way leads to eternal destruction while the other to eternal life. If you claim that there is nothing we can do to be saved, then the opposite is also true; there is nothing you can do to be damned. You are just a toy to be batted around. Calvinists cannot justify the obvious implications of their beliefs. All they can do is cry out, "That's not what we are saying." even though it is exactly what they are saying.

If I am dying and lost on a mountainside, but I can get a signal on my phone. I can choose to call for help, I cannot engender myself, or I can ignore the phone and die.

Even then, God revealed to me the knowledge of my condition and gave me the power to choose. But the choice is mine. The paraplegic man at the pool was told to take up his bed and walk. Jesus did not carry him around for the rest of his life. The man still could have remained at the pool, not walking because now he had a choice, whereas before, he did not.

"God grants us either, but one way leads to eternal destruction while the other to eternal life. "

Just a thought...

I would suggest that you're starting from a neutral point. Fact of the matter is that everyone of us is wicked and damned to begin with. There are none who does what is righteous. God is on a rescue mission to save His elect.

If your choice is to "resist" or "submit", what are you resisting and submitting to? Are you resisting God or Satan? Are you submitting to God or to Satan? I'm not clear on what you're saying.

"You are just a toy to be batted around. Calvinists cannot justify the obvious implications of their beliefs. All they can do is cry out, "That's not what we are saying." even though it is exactly what they are saying."

I'm not sure what you're talking about here.

"The paraplegic man at the pool was told to take up his bed and walk. Jesus did not carry him around for the rest of his life. " John 5

1) There were many at the pool that day. Jesus only went up to one person and told him to take up his bed and walk.​

2) Jesus gave him a choice ("Do you want to get well?" John 5:6). The man's response wasn't, "Sure, that sounds great." Instead, the man's response was that there was no one to help him go into the pool.​

3) Without being asked to do anything by the man, Jesus just commands to pick up the pallet and walk. There was no choice, only compassion for this man.​

This is the way salvation is for all of God's sheep. There isn't a choice. Jesus commands. It happens.

People would be better served if they would carefully read the text apart from preconceived notions. The goal is to understand God and what He is telling us.

 

[Dan1988]

Can a dead man eat? Can a dead man drink? Can a dead man speak? Can a dead man walk around? Can a dead man do anything at all other than lay there and decompose? This same exact term is often used in prison in reference to people who have a death sentence. They’re called dead man walking. Again it’s a proverbial saying. It doesn’t mean they’re literally dead, it means that they’re not going to receive eternal life.

So you think God lied when He said "on the day you eat of it you shall surely die".

I don't agree with you, because I know God is not a liar so Adam must have died on the day when He sinned against God. You don't believe it because you only believe what you see, you don't even believe that the spiritual realm exists, because you're obviously a carnal person.

Those of us who have been born again, know that God is Spirit and we worship Him in Spirit. A spirit is not visible, so you'll never see one and you will remain in your state of unbelief.

I guess there's no point in trying to convince you that God is not a liar, you know that Adam didn't die that day and he went on to live to around 950 years of age so, in your estimation God lied, but to those of us who believe in God he died on the day that he sinned. So you can believe whatever makes you happy, but you can't claim to believe in God while you don't believe in Him at all.

 

[Dan1988]

You had to cooperate with God before any of that could happen which is what Iranaeus was writing about. God gave us the knowledge of both good and evil and the ability to choose to do either of the two.

It is true that mankind knows both good and evil, but it's a lie to say that God gave it to us. If you ever studied the book of Genesis, you would know that it was Satan, who gave us the knowledge of good and evil. We got the knowledge, in exchange for our soul. We sold our soul to to learn about evil and we became Satan's slaves, so every single person who was ever born is born as a slave to Satan.

You don't even know that you were born into slavery to Satan, His slaves don't even know that they're His slaves, because He keeps them blinded to the truth so they remain dead in their trespasses and sin.

God said you are dead but you say God is a liar and your actually alive, so one of you is lying. I know God, but I don't know you so I must reject you and follow my Master.

 

[Dan1988]

They don’t believe in the word of God, they think it’s all fiction.

OK, that's different. I thought you meant, they're closet Christians who don't have the courage to come out and admit it like the LGBT people come out of the closet and reveal it to the whole world and they even have pride marches because they are so proud of who they are, while these lame Christians remain ashamed of who they are for their entire life and they never come out of the closet.

 

[Dan1988]

Whoever we obey is who we serve

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

It‘s our choice who we obey. Jesus says when we keep our traditions/commandments of men over obeying the commandments of God and He quoted directly from the Ten Commandments Mat 15:3-14 our hearts are far from Him, so we are serving another.

It’s really important to obey God the way He wrote and spoke Exo 32:16 Exo 31:18 as no one has the Authority over God to change anything. Psa 89:34 Mat 5:18-19 so are we serving the God who has the power of Creation Exo 20:11 the same God of Judgement Rev 14:7 or are we serving another and perhaps not even realizing it.

You do realize that the commandments were given as a curse, right?. You do realize that every single person, who ever lived broke all of them right???. God gave us the commandments to show us how wicked we are, He gave them to show us that it's not possible for anyone to keep any of them, right????

Now, knowing this truth, why do you foolishly make the commandments a condition for salvation. You know that nobody can keep a single commandment but you go ahead and impose them as conditions and requirements to receive salvation.

Can you please name a single person in all of history who kept a single one of Gods commandments,????? Yes that's right, you can't name a single person who ever kept a single commandment, because no such person has ever existed.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You do realize that the commandments were given as a curse, right?. You do realize that every single person, who ever lived broke all of them right???. God gave us the commandments to show us how wicked we are, He gave them to show us that it's not possible for anyone to keep any of them, right????

Now, knowing this truth, why do you foolishly make the commandments a condition for salvation. You know that nobody can keep a single commandment but you go ahead and impose them as conditions and requirements to receive salvation.

Can you please name a single person in all of history who kept a single one of Gods commandments,????? Yes that's right, you can't name a single person who ever kept a single commandment, because no such person has ever existed.

You missed the main point of my post and went straight into an illogical argument obeying God is a curse when scriptures teach the opposite.

You asked does God give us the power to choose and the answer is found in our bibles that whoever we obey is who we serve Rom 6:16 so yes we choose through our obedience. We might not realize the side we are taking until it's too late but every decision we make has a consequence.

Obeying God the way He asks is never a curse. Lets see what scripture says on this matter

Deut 11:27 the blessing, if you obey the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you today; 28 and the curse, if you do not obey the commandments of the Lord your God, but turn aside from the way which I command you today, to go after other gods which you have not known.

It's really simple.

And that blessing never changes up until the end of time

Rev 22:14 14 Blessed are those who [a]do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

The curse are those who disobey which is why they are left outside Rev 22:15 because they served another master than the Lord thy God.


You claimed no one can obey God's commandments, but what does scripture say:

Rev14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
God does have a people who obey Him through love and faith. Rom 3:31 1 John 5:3 John 14:5 Exo 20:6

 

[Dan1988]

No that’s incorrect, my interpretation is supported by the scriptures.

“See, I have set before you today life and prosperity, and death and adversity; in that I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in His ways and to keep His commandments and His statutes and His judgments, that you may live and multiply, and that the Lord your God may bless you in the land where you are entering to possess it. But if your heart turns away and you will not obey, but are drawn away and worship other gods and serve them, I declare to you today that you shall surely perish. You will not prolong your days in the land where you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess it. I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,”

‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30‬:‭15‬-‭19‬ ‭NASB1995

In the passage above God Himself makes is absolutely clear that we have the ability to choose either life or death, either blessing or curse. He Himself has placed the choice before us. So you can’t say that my interpretation is not supported anywhere in the scriptures because it is supported right here. ‬‬

Romans 3:10-12 is a quote from Psalms 14:1-3 and Psalms 53:1-3 which are proverbial passages. Let’s examine them and determine whether or not they are intended to be taken literally or if they are intended to be proverbial shall we?

Heres verse 4 the very next verse after the portion Paul quoted.

“Do all the workers of wickedness not know, Who eat up my people as they eat bread, And do not call upon the Lord?”
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭14‬:‭4‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Is the author talking about cannibals? Are all wicked people cannibals? Is that statement intended to be taken literally?

The same statement is made in Psalms 53:4. It’s a proverbial saying that is not intended to be taken literally. If verses 1-3 were intended to be taken literally then they would include Paul and every single person who ever lived.

No one is righteous
No one understands
No one does good
No one seeks God
They have all become useless

These statements include everyone in the present tense which would include Paul, the rest of the apostles and everyone. The scriptures specifically state that some men were righteous. Noah, Job, Abraham, are a few examples.

You’re formulating a doctrine based on proverbial poetry from the Psalms that is not intended to be taken literally and should be obvious to someone such as yourself who knows that there are passages that contradict the literal reading of these verses.

If you’re going to read the Psalms as literal passages you’re going to have a hard time reconciling Psalms 37:23 with Romans 3:10-12.

“The steps of a man are established by the Lord, And He delights in his way.”
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭37‬:‭23‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Does God delight in the wicked? If all are wicked as Romans 3:10-12 says and their steps are established by God and He delights in their way then that is a lot of contradiction going on there.

Did Jesus take Psalms 14:1-3 and Psalms 53:1-3 literally?

“The good man brings out of his good treasure what is good; and the evil man brings out of his evil treasure what is evil.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭12‬:‭35‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

What good man? According to the Psalms there are no good men.

“And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭10‬:‭18‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Is Jesus contradicting Himself here? No He’s not, man can do good only when he cooperates with God.

Barnabas was said to be a good man.

“The news about them reached the ears of the church at Jerusalem, and they sent Barnabas off to Antioch. Then when he arrived and witnessed the grace of God, he rejoiced and began to encourage them all with resolute heart to remain true to the Lord; for he was a good man, and full of the Holy Spirit and of faith. And considerable numbers were brought to the Lord.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭11‬:‭22‬-‭24‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

He was a good man because he was filled with the Holy Spirit and he acted in cooperation with Him. Barnabas didn’t spend his time grieving the Holy Spirit, he spent his time serving Him. He had the same choice as everyone else, he had to choose to serve the Holy Spirit, it doesn’t come automatically otherwise we wouldn’t be able to grieve the Holy Spirit and we would never sin. The passage you’re reading in Romans 3:10-12 is not intended to be taken literally and there is an abundance of evidence in the scriptures that prove this.

By denying what Gods Word clearly says in Romans 3:10-12 and claiming that, it given as a parable shows how desperate you are to hold on to this outrageous idea that a man can be born good.

I can give you a truck load of verses which confirm that, nobody is born righteous and everyone is born in sin and we all inherited a sin nature from our parents. If you cared to study what God said about mankind, you would know that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

If you're going to be honest, you will have to abandon this false doctrine of demons which teaches that man is born with the power to choose between serving God and serving sin & Satan. The sad truth is, every single person is born into slavery to serve sin and Satan. Our sin nature hates the things of God, we love our sin too much to to deny it and somehow make ourselves love what we hate and hate what we love.

The truth of the matter is not complicated and the bible never contradicts itself anywhere, anyone who claims that there are contradictions, does so because they failed to rightly divide the Word of God because the carnal man does not receive spiritual things. If a person is not led by the Holy Spirit, they cannot receive spiritual things and they will always be baffled by spiritual things.

The fact that you reject plain scripture and try to rationalize it by claiming it was spoken in parabolic language, confirms that you can't embrace the truth of the gospel.

 

[Dan1988]

I never said otherwise. There’s a huge difference between saying that we are able to repent and saying that some people never sinned. Those statements are completely unassociated with one another. They’re two completely different statements.

But you have never provided any evidence to suggest that anyone is able o repent. That's your downfall, you made up this nonsense that some people are born with the ability to repent and be saved while other are not born with it.
There is nothing in the bible to support such an outrageous ide.

 

[theprinceofthisworld]

No that’s incorrect, my interpretation is supported by the scriptures.

“See, I have set before you today life and prosperity, and death and adversity; in that I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in His ways and to keep His commandments and His statutes and His judgments, that you may live and multiply, and that the Lord your God may bless you in the land where you are entering to possess it. But if your heart turns away and you will not obey, but are drawn away and worship other gods and serve them, I declare to you today that you shall surely perish. You will not prolong your days in the land where you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess it. I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,”

‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30‬:‭15‬-‭19‬ ‭NASB1995

There isn't the second commandment here. How do you explain it? The Truth is that it's on the way of the 70 weeks of Daniel, before Moses and before Jesus. In these 70 weeks humans've to improbe so that they can be forgiven from the sin. Obviously it's not a simple sin, it'd be incredible ha-ha. The Truth is that this particular sin is the original sin, infact after it there'll be the eternal justice(universal judgement). Jesus talks about eternal life, where we're practically at the forgiveness of original sin and the book of Revelatios talks about the eternal justice. So Jesus is the teacher where to learn the last things: he has improved humans, especially in relationships between humans and between men and women. The old Scriptures cannot be compared with newer one.

 

[Dan1988]

You missed the main point of my post and went straight into an illogical argument obeying God is a curse when scriptures teach the opposite.

You asked does God give us the power to choose and the answer is found in our bibles that whoever we obey is who we serve Rom 6:16 so yes we choose through our obedience. We might not realize the side we are taking until it's too late but every decision we make has a consequence.

Obeying God the way He asks is never a curse. Lets see what scripture says on this matter

Deut 11:27 the blessing, if you obey the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you today; 28 and the curse, if you do not obey the commandments of the Lord your God, but turn aside from the way which I command you today, to go after other gods which you have not known.

It's really simple.

And that blessing never changes up until the end of time

Rev 22:14 14 Blessed are those who [a]do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

The curse are those who disobey which is why they are left outside Rev 22:15 because they served another master than the Lord thy God.


You claimed no one can obey God's commandments, but what does scripture say:

Rev14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
God does have a people who obey Him through love and faith. Rom 3:31 1 John 5:3 John 14:5 Exo 20:6

The suggestion that anyone can keep the commandments is a lie from the pits of hell, here is the truth;

Romans 3:10-12

10 As it is written:
“There is none righteous, no, not one;

11 There is none who understands;

There is none who seeks after God.

12 They have all turned aside;

They have together become unprofitable;

There is none who does good, no, not one.”

Why do you accuse God of being a liar and claim that men can do good, and they are righteous, and they seek to obey God, and they haven't turned aside. You don't believe what God says when it exposes you false doctrine, so you twist the meaning of unrelated verses to force them to say what you want them to say.

Trying to obey God is a curse, which leads you straight to hell, so why would you try to do such a foolish thing.

We were discussing mans ability to choose to believe and obey Gods commandments, but you ignored the fact that's impossible and you instead referred to the Saints of God and said, there look they can do it so the reprobate can also do it. But you are gravely mistaken, because no reprobate dead sinner can choose to believe and obey God.

God works through His Saints by His Holy Spirit, so they do His will because He is working His righteousness in them. They are not exercising their own holiness, because only God is holy. So it's foolish to suggest that we are saved by our own holiness and obedience as you are so desperately trying to do.

Every one of the verses you tried to twist, is speaking about the Saints of God who are doing His will, because He is in them. All of them were like you at one time, they were all wicked sinners. But God saved them, by His grace and not because they chose Him. Nobody has ever chosen God because everybody hates Him until He converts them.

You need to reconsider your theology, as it currently doesn't line up with Gods Word.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The suggestion that anyone can keep the commandments is a lie from the pits of hell, here is the truth;

I didn’t say anyone, but those who have love and faith in Christ through the power of Jesus Christ.

Its a promise of scripture that God has a people who can keep His commandments.
Rev14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:14 14 Blessed are those who [a]do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

When we say we can’t obey God and His commandments what one is really saying is that the devil has more power to keep us in sin than Jesus does to keep us from sin. This is a popular teaching, and one the devil wants us to believe 1 John 3:8 that we can be saved in our sins, but it’s not what the scriptures teach. We are saved from sin Mat 1:21 not saved in our sins. We must confess and forsake our sins Pro 28:13

Romans 3:10-12

10 As it is written:
“There is none righteous, no, not one;

11 There is none who understands;

There is none who seeks after God.

12 They have all turned aside;

They have together become unprofitable;

There is none who does good, no, not one.”

Why do you accuse God of being a liar and claim that men can do good, and they are righteous, and they seek to obey God, and they haven't turned aside. You don't believe what God says when it exposes you false doctrine, so you twist the meaning of unrelated verses to force them to say what you want them to say.

Trying to obey God is a curse, which leads you straight to hell, so why would you try to do such a foolish thing.

We were discussing mans ability to choose to believe and obey Gods commandments, but you ignored the fact that's impossible and you instead referred to the Saints of God and said, there look they can do it so the reprobate can also do it. But you are gravely mistaken, because no reprobate dead sinner can choose to believe and obey God.

God works through His Saints by His Holy Spirit, so they do His will because He is working His righteousness in them. They are not exercising their own holiness, because only God is holy. So it's foolish to suggest that we are saved by our own holiness and obedience as you are so desperately trying to do.

Every one of the verses you tried to twist, is speaking about the Saints of God who are doing His will, because He is in them. All of them were like you at one time, they were all wicked sinners. But God saved them, by His grace and not because they chose Him. Nobody has ever chosen God because everybody hates Him until He converts them.

You need to reconsider your theology, as it currently doesn't line up with Gods Word.

I’m not sure if you realize this or not but you did not address my post or the scriptures which addressed your erroneous statement that obeying God's commandments is a curse , but instead you went on to a whole new argument.

To address your new argument

Yes, no one is righteous on their own, which is why we need Christ's righteousness, instead of depending on our own righteousness. All of God's commandments are righteous. Psa 119:172 and His righteousness is everlasting Psa 119:142

Our obedience to God leads one to righteousness, sin (disobedience) leads one on the wrong path

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

While we can't obey God on our own we can through Christ though our love and faith in Him

John 14:15 15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

You need to reconsider your theology, as it currently doesn't line up with Gods Word.

You might consider your own advice because this argument is not with me, these are the Words of Jesus Christ

 

[Dan1988]

I didn’t say anyone, but those who have love and faith in Christ through the power of Jesus Christ.

Its a promise of scripture that God has a people who can keep His commandments.
Rev14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:14 14 Blessed are those who [a]do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

When we say we can’t obey God and His commandments what one is really saying is that the devil has more power to keep us in sin than Jesus does to keep us from sin. This is a popular teaching, and one the devil wants us to believe 1 John 3:8 that we can be saved in our sins, but it’s not what the scriptures teach. We are saved from sin Mat 1:21 not saved in our sins. We must confess and forsake our sins Pro 28:13


I’m not sure if you realize this or not but you did not address my post or the scriptures which addressed your erroneous statement that obeying God's commandments is a curse , but instead you went on to a whole new argument.

To address your new argument

Yes, no one is righteous on their own, which is why we need Christ's righteousness, instead of depending on our own righteousness. All of God's commandments are righteous. Psa 119:172 and His righteousness is everlasting Psa 119:142

Our obedience to God leads one to righteousness, sin (disobedience) leads one on the wrong path

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

While we can't obey God on our own we can through Christ though our love and faith in Him

John 14:15 15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.


You might consider your own advice because this argument is not with me, these are the Words of Jesus Christ

Why don't you answer my accusation and defend your false doctrine. I asked why you take what was spoken to the Saints of God and claim that it was spoken to child raping murderers. As if they can just choose to love and believe in Jesus.

You continue to ignore the context of the scriptures you cite and you always impose your private opinion on what God said, and when I show you verses which destroy your interpretation, you simply offer more of the same foolishness. In the hope that your lies may be accepted if you repeat them often enough.

Yes God promised the Kingdom to those who obey the gospel, your biggest problem is you don't believe what God said, when He said that only His Elect Saints can obey the gospel and be saved. You make a mockery of Gods Saints, you claim that sick and evil child raping murderers can force God to save them because they pretend to believe and love Him. That is blasphemy of the highest order and I would urge you to refrain for blaspheming the Holy Spirit like that.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Why don't you answer my accusation and defend your false doctrine. I asked why you take what was spoken to the Saints of God and claim that it was spoken to child raping murderers. As if they can just choose to love and believe in Jesus.

You continue to ignore the context of the scriptures you cite and you always impose your private opinion on what God said, and when I show you verses which destroy your interpretation, you simply offer more of the same foolishness. In the hope that your lies may be accepted if you repeat them often enough.

Yes God promised the Kingdom to those who obey the gospel, your biggest problem is you don't believe what God said, when He said that only His Elect Saints can obey the gospel and be saved.

Pure conjecture.

you claim that sick and evil child raping murderers can force God to save them because they pretend to believe and love Him.

What? Do you even hear yourself or quote me ever saying this. I would also consider leaving the judging to God. Only He knows whats in someone’s heart.

That is blasphemy of the highest order and I would urge you to refrain for blaspheming the Holy Spirit like that.

Quoting Jesus and believing Him is not blaspheming the Holy Spirit. I see you are someone who can’t be reasoned with, and accusations are not how we address bible scriptures. It’s not a Christian way to handle discussions so I will leave it as agree to disagree. I do wish you well in seeking Truth to God’s Word. Take care.

 

[Mercy Shown]

"God grants us either, but one way leads to eternal destruction while the other to eternal life. "

Just a thought...

I would suggest that you're starting from a neutral point. Fact of the matter is that everyone of us is wicked and damned to begin with. There are none who does what is righteous. God is on a rescue mission to save His elect.

If your choice is to "resist" or "submit", what are you resisting and submitting to? Are you resisting God or Satan?

You either resist the Holy Spirit or submit to him. The only time you resist Satan us after you are saved and then he will flee from you.

Are you submitting to God or to Satan? I'm not clear on what you're saying.

"You are just a toy to be batted around. Calvinists cannot justify the obvious implications of their beliefs. All they can do is cry out, "That's not what we are saying." even though it is exactly what they are saying."

I'm not sure what you're talking about here.

Just what it says. Extreme Calvanism claims that even rape and murder are ordained by God.

"The paraplegic man at the pool was told to take up his bed and walk. Jesus did not carry him around for the rest of his life. " John 5

1) There were many at the pool that day. Jesus only went up to one person and told him to take up his bed and walk.​

The man had to get up. He could have chosen not to.

Jesus purpose was not physical healing or else all would have been physically healed. Even the apostle Paul was not healed physically from all his ailments. So, your point is moot.

Two very beloved Christian men went to prison. One was set free by a miracle of Devine intervention but the other was beheaded by a drunk king. God has his reasons and we know they are just.

2) Jesus gave him a choice ("Do you want to get well?" John 5:6). The man's response wasn't, "Sure, that sounds great." Instead, the man's response was that there was no one to help him go into the pool.​

3) Without being asked to do anything by the man, Jesus just commands to pick up the pallet and walk. There was no choice, only compassion for this man.​

What? You just implied that there was and of course implication was correct. The man could’ve refused to get up and walk. He could’ve sat there and his unbelief and said why are you asking me to get up and walk when I’m a cripple? But he didn’t he chose to submit to God‘s power and obey.

Ask yourself this question, why were many not healed in Jesus‘s own hometown when he went to visit?

This is the way salvation is for all of God's sheep. There isn't a choice. Jesus commands. It happens.

This is incorrect. The apostle Paul said that we are the ambassadors of God‘s reconciliation to all mankind and God makes us appeal through us to all mankind. Notice, it’s an appeal, not a command.

People would be better served if they would carefully read the text apart from preconceived notions. The goal is to understand God and what He is telling us.

Which is exactly what Calvinism does. it has a deep bias confirmation and ends up, hurling implied insults at God. That God would predestine the most vile acts committed by mankind. Any earthly father who acted toward their children the way Calvin believed God acts towards mankind would be arrested and thrown in jail for the rest of his life.

 

[Mercy Shown]

With all due respect to St Iranaeus, the fact remains that a dead man can do non of those things that Mr. Iranaeus spoke about. We are all born dead in trespasses and sin, and last time I checked I found that a dead man can do precisely nothing to make God save him.

With this terrible fact in mind, the only possible way for a dead man to be quickened to life is if God the giver and sustainer of life does it. Otherwise the man remains condemned in his trespasses and sin.

I was also once dead in my sin, I hated God and I lived to serve sin and Satan. I didn't want anything to do with God, and if He didn't come after me and save me from myself and Satan, I would have remained a slave to both of them forever. I considered Christians to be fools, I couldn't understand why anyone would abandon what they love and embrace who they hate. It never made any sense to me, until God converted me.

God didn't come offering to save me if I meet a bunch of conditions, He simply converted me by removing m heart of stone and giving me a new heart of flesh. That fundamentally changed who I was, my affections changed and now I hate what I used to love and loved what I used to hate. God didn't ask me to keep any commandments, as a condition to save me, I now try to keep the commandments because I agree they are for my own good, so God is not the party pooper that unbelievers make Him out to be.

God is not the cruel vicious villain that Calvinist make him out to be. You could choose to not be a Christian if you wanted to you could give it all up right now. Calvin seem to think that once they are brought to life that they have no free well still, and that they can never choose anything, but God has dictated they will. They are basically dogs on a leash.

 

[Dan1988]

God is not the cruel vicious villain that Calvinist make him out to be. You could choose to not be a Christian if you wanted to you could give it all up right now. Calvin seem to think that once they are brought to life that they have no free well still, and that they can never choose anything, but God has dictated they will. They are basically dogs on a leash.

To the contrary, us Calvinists are free in Christ, whilst your Armenians are on Satan's short leash and you hate us because God saved us and not you guys. It's true, jealousy is a curse, but thankfully your jealousy towards the Elect Saints of God like me, is harmless to us. It only condemns you to the lake of fire, I have already inherited eternal life in paradise. So dogs can bark all they like, nothing can change the facts.