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Love codified in the Ten Commandments

bbbbbbb

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I don’t have to. I gave you where they are located in the Bible so you could find them.
Are you saying that they are NOT in the Bible?
As I am sure you know, this is a typical means of evasion. All one actually needs to do is to select one commandment out of the Ten and discuss it. It is then that one discovers that, in reality, these legalists are hypocrites in their statements concerning keeping God's commandments.

In fact, one hardly need even go beyond the Ten to discover their hypocrisy. For example, the commandment, "Thou shalt not murder" is taken in its very narrowest sense, even excluding the much broader interpretation of it by Jesus Christ.
 
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Delvianna

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So post a verse post crucifixion that requires the Christian to follow the 4th commandment. All other 9 commandments are summarized in Jesus two love commandments except for the 4th commandment. How then do you justify your belief?
I dont have to justify my belief to you personally. I've already stated that just because Jesus didnt reiterate every single command, doesnt mean I ignore what's already been established since he also didnt say anything against it either . You can find that answer in my previous replies to you. And that's where I'm leaving it. Because I'm tired of reiterating the same thing.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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As I am sure you know, this is a typical means of evasion. All one actually needs to do is to select one commandment out of the Ten and discuss it. It is then that one discovers that, in reality, these legalists are hypocrites in their statements concerning keeping God's commandments.

In fact, one hardly need even go beyond the Ten to discover their hypocrisy.
Can you explain to me what law would be broken if one was keeping the Ten Commandments the way Jesus explained? Mat5:19-30 The interesting thing, is Jesus claimed the hypocrites to be the ones who were laying aside the commandments of God (saying they are not meant for me), quoting directly from the Ten Commandments in lieu of their man-made rules and traditions. Mark7:7-13 Mat15:3-14. I am not familiar with Jesus ever calling anyone a hypocrite or legalists for wanting to keep the Ten Commandments because He asked us to if we love Him, but if you have an example of this from Scripture please share.
For example, the commandment, "Thou shalt not murder" is taken in its very narrowest sense, even excluding the much broader interpretation of it by Jesus Christ.
Out of curiosity, when you claim we take thou shalt not murder in the narrowest sense, when I related it to a heart issue, can you explain, how this is taking it for the narrowest sense please.

SB said: Jesus was addressing the inward issue of a harden heart, which is not subject to the law of God Rom8:7-8. If the heart is changed- from anger to compassion, thou shalt not murder is kept. This is what He came to do to magnify His laws and make greater Isa 42:21, not make lessor. Not that we can now commit murder and break God's law, but not have anger in our heart, Its nonsensical. Both work hand in hard, If the inward is fixed, the outward would be shown through our actions and all of God's commandments would be kept.
 
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I dont have to justify my belief to you personally. I've already stated that just because Jesus didnt reiterate every single command, doesnt mean I ignore what's already been established since he also didnt say anything against it either . You can find that answer in my previous replies to you. And that's where I'm leaving it. Because I'm tired of reiterating the same thing.
Jesus never said anything against any of the other 603 commandments, did He?
 
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Hentenza

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I dont have to justify my belief to you personally. I've already stated that just because Jesus didnt reiterate every single command, doesnt mean I ignore what's already been established since he also didnt say anything against it either . You can find that answer in my previous replies to you. And that's where I'm leaving it. Because I'm tired of reiterating the same thing.
So why do you condemn others that not believe as you do? I won’t judge you based on your preferred days but you should not judge others either.

“Therefore, no one is to act as your judge in regard to food and drink, or in respect to a festival or a new moon, or a Sabbath day— things which are only a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2‬:‭16‬-‭17‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬
 
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SabbathBlessings

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So why do you condemn others that not believe as you do? I won’t judge you based on your preferred days but you should not judge others either.

“Therefore, no one is to act as your judge in regard to food and drink, or in respect to a festival or a new moon, or a Sabbath day— things which are only a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2‬:‭16‬-‭17‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬
That's not about the weekly Sabbath that started at Creation that God blessed and made holy and points to Him as our Creator and Sanctifier. Exo 20:12 Exo20:11

Col2:14 gives the context. Its about the annual sabbath(s) connected to the annual feast days that has to do with food and drink offerings. God made the Sabbath for man Mark2:27 from Creation Exo20:11 so can't be a shadow of anything it is and will always be God's perfect plan for mankind, why it continues Isa66:22-23.

This interpretation that Paul had the authority to change God's times and laws after Christ ratified His covenant, which would require a whole new sacrifice, is one of the reasons I believe we have a warning about not looking at the context of Paul's writings and using them against what God said. 2Peter3:16 Jesus told us to live by Mat4:4

Even AI understood Col2:16
 
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Can you explain to me what law would be broken if one was keeping the Ten Commandments the way Jesus explained? Mat5:19-30 The interesting thing, is Jesus claimed the hypocrites to be the ones who were laying aside the commandments of God (saying they are not meant for me), quoting directly from the Ten Commandments in lieu of their man-made rules and traditions. Mark7:7-13 Mat15:3-14. I am not familiar with Jesus ever calling anyone a hypocrite or legalists for wanting to keep the Ten Commandments because He asked us to if we love Him, but if you have an example of this from Scripture please share.

Out of curiosity, when you claim we take thou shalt not murder in the narrowest sense, when I related it to a heart issue, can you explain, how this is taking it for the narrowest sense please.
Please be assured that I was not referencing you or your denomination in my reply to Hentenza. Neither you nor your denomination are the only ones fixated on ten of God's commandments. The fact is that there are some individuals who have interpreted these commandments very narrowly. Thus, it is not in the least bit difficult to assuage one's sense of guilt by knowing that all is well because one is keeping all of God's (relevant) commandments.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Please be assured that I was not referencing you or your denomination in my reply to Hentenza. Neither you nor your denomination are the only ones fixated on ten of God's commandments. The fact is that there are some individuals who have interpreted these commandments very narrowly. Thus, it is not in the least bit difficult to assuage one's sense of guilt by knowing that all is well because one is keeping all of God's (relevant) commandments.
Ok, thanks for the clarification.
 
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Delvianna

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Please be assured that I was not referencing you or your denomination in my reply to Hentenza. Neither you nor your denomination are the only ones fixated on ten of God's commandments. The fact is that there are some individuals who have interpreted these commandments very narrowly. Thus, it is not in the least bit difficult to assuage one's sense of guilt by knowing that all is well because one is keeping all of God's (relevant) commandments.
I do agree with you that there is a problem with people thinking that essentially they're 100% righteous. I don't hold to that belief. We all fall short on a regular basis whether it is in action or verbal. But that is why we have the holy spirit to correct us, and Jesus to forgive us of our sins. My only argument is, that we are supposed to continue to strive to be more Christ-like every day and that includes the commandments that God has given us. No one is perfect, nor will anyone ever be perfect, but there is a difference between trying to live a way that glorifies God, and just disregarding his rules because sin tastes better and its easier.

So when I debate about the 10 commandments, I'm debating God's standard. But there is a whole nother argument for how forgiveness ties into it all.

Summed up for salvation: Faith in Christ produces the desire to live as close to God's standard as possible, and what we fail in the rest of the way, God forgives. But God's standard will always be the 10 commandments in action and thought.

Jesus never said anything against any of the other 603 commandments, did He?
Ask Hentenza, I was countering their logical reasoning.
 
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I do agree with you that there is a problem with people thinking that essentially they're 100% righteous. I don't hold to that belief. We all fall short on a regular basis whether it is in action or verbal. But that is why we have the holy spirit to correct us, and Jesus to forgive us of our sins. My only argument is, that we are supposed to continue to strive to be more Christ-like every day and that includes the commandments that God has given us. No one is perfect, nor will anyone ever be perfect, but there is a difference between trying to live a way that glorifies God, and just disregarding his rules because sin tastes better and its easier.

So when I debate about the 10 commandments, I'm debating God's standard. But there is a whole nother argument for how forgiveness ties into it all.

Summed up for salvation: Faith in Christ produces the desire to live as close to God's standard as possible, and what we fail in the rest of the way, God forgives. But God's standard will always be the 10 commandments in action and thought.

Ask Hentenza, I was countering their logical reasoning.
The difficulty is determining what God's standard actually is. Many folks have limited themselves to ten specific commandments, but toss in others as they see fit. Then there are many areas of life which are completely unaddressed in the Bible. Some find shelter in the umbrella of love - love God and love others - which is not an altogether bad approach. The tightrope in this arena falls between legalism and Antinomianism.
 
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Delvianna

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The difficulty is determining what God's standard actually is. Many folks have limited themselves to ten specific commandments, but toss in others as they see fit. Then there are many areas of life which are completely unaddressed in the Bible. Some find shelter in the umbrella of love - love God and love others - which is not an altogether bad approach. The tightrope in this arena falls between legalism and Antinomianism.
And thus, the narrow Gate is that tight rope. Which is why it's paramount when doing study to let God guide you which most people don't do and just point to some video, article or their church leader to back up whatever they were taught. At the end of the day, we all account for ourselves, so if someone wants to believe what their pastor said on what verses mean, that's entirely up to them. Which is why I said before, that it's not my job to "prove" anything. I've come to the conclusion I have due to biblical study, just as SabbathBlessings has and anyone else that claims a self-taught study approach, even if the views oppose. But there's also an issue with attitude in having these discussions too. Most don't want to even hear you out and just want to bang on their ideas, their interpretations, their "gotcha" moments. I'm just not here for that. You want to have a debate, where we can go back and forth in humility and the pursuit of truth, I'm all for it, even if we share opposing views. Let's have that discussion about the 10 commandments and others, as long as it stays civil and without sarcasm or just attempting to win a debate. Hell, I've been meeting with JW's for the last 8 months and debating them is a breath of fresh air compared to other Christians. So I'm not opposed to the conversation, I just pick and choose what convo I want to be in. But at the end of the day, God will have the final say and my answer comes from study, while also going to God and asking for guidance and correction. So with my own personal doctrinal path, God has corrected me on much including salvation because the church grew up in preached Antinomianism. I have the utmost faith of God's guidance so no matter how difficult it is to determine God's standard, my faith is as long as I keep searching for it and keep asking for Gods direction, he'll get me to where I need to go. So I personally, haven't seen anything against the answer I have fallen on with the direction God has led me.

So, here is what I want you to do, here is what I want you to follow and it's been 1 topic after another as God has put on my heart to research into the sabbath because it was something he wanted me to follow. I can only speak for myself, but that is exactly what started the process into researching that in the first place. I first went back to understand the law and found out its not 1 group of laws altogether, that there are split ideas. Then I went to the new testament and read examples:

Matthew 5:17-20
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."

Has everything been accomplished? Nope. We still have the Lord's second comming.

James 2:10-12
"For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. For He who said, 'Do not commit adultery,' also said, 'Do not commit murder.'... So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty."

When it comes to specifically the sabbath:
We all know Matthew 24 is talking about end times so...
Matthew 24:20
"Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath"
That is still considered a future prophesy. Why would it matter if it was on the sabbath if the sabbath is done away with? Because...

Exodus 31:16-17
"The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.’”
We are grafted into God's tree. Since keeping the sabbath was apart of the same law group that was taught by Jesus which included murder, theft, idolatry etc, that would mean that that set of rules still applies. When it comes to the Ceremonial laws of attonement, Jesus altered those.

And one that I think is plainly black and white...
Hebrews 4:9-11
"There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his. Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.
The entire chapter of Hebrews 4 talks about the Sabbath and because it's linked to "disobedience" not to follow it, we can say that ties into the 10 commandments and not merely a suggestion or option.

This is just a sample of why I'm choosing to follow it because to me, scripture is clear on the matter and I don't want to be a disobedient child.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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So, here is what I want you to do, here is what I want you to follow and it's been 1 topic after another as God has put on my heart to research into the sabbath because it was something he wanted me to follow. I can only speak for myself, but that is exactly what started the process into researching that in the first place. I first went back to understand the law and found out its not 1 group of laws altogether, that there are split ideas. Then I went to the new testament and read examples:

Matthew 5:17-20


Has everything been accomplished? Nope. We still have the Lord's second comming.

James 2:10-12


When it comes to specifically the sabbath:
We all know Matthew 24 is talking about end times so...
Matthew 24:20

That is still considered a future prophesy. Why would it matter if it was on the sabbath if the sabbath is done away with? Because...

Exodus 31:16-17

We are grafted into God's tree. Since keeping the sabbath was apart of the same law group that was taught by Jesus which included murder, theft, idolatry etc, that would mean that that set of rules still applies. When it comes to the Ceremonial laws of attonement, Jesus altered those.

And one that I think is plainly black and white...
Hebrews 4:9-11

The entire chapter of Hebrews 4 talks about the Sabbath and because it's linked to "disobedience" not to follow it, we can say that ties into the 10 commandments and not merely a suggestion or option.

This is just a sample of why I'm choosing to follow it because to me, scripture is clear on the matter and I don't want to be a disobedient child.
Praise God for these Biblical Truths!

Blessings to you sister in Christ. :sparklingheart:
 
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Hentenza

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That's not about the weekly Sabbath that started at Creation that God blessed and made holy and points to Him as our Creator and Sanctifier. Exo 20:12 Exo20:11
It sure does. Paul is indeed talking about the sabbaths including the seventh day sabbath. We have already discussed this and you still to refute it. I’m still waiting for those verses I’ve been asking you for a long time.
 
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And thus, the narrow Gate is that tight rope. Which is why it's paramount when doing study to let God guide you which most people don't do and just point to some video, article or their church leader to back up whatever they were taught. At the end of the day, we all account for ourselves, so if someone wants to believe what their pastor said on what verses mean, that's entirely up to them. Which is why I said before, that it's not my job to "prove" anything. I've come to the conclusion I have due to biblical study, just as SabbathBlessings has and anyone else that claims a self-taught study approach, even if the views oppose. But there's also an issue with attitude in having these discussions too. Most don't want to even hear you out and just want to bang on their ideas, their interpretations, their "gotcha" moments. I'm just not here for that. You want to have a debate, where we can go back and forth in humility and the pursuit of truth, I'm all for it, even if we share opposing views. Let's have that discussion about the 10 commandments and others, as long as it stays civil and without sarcasm or just attempting to win a debate. Hell, I've been meeting with JW's for the last 8 months and debating them is a breath of fresh air compared to other Christians. So I'm not opposed to the conversation, I just pick and choose what convo I want to be in. But at the end of the day, God will have the final say and my answer comes from study, while also going to God and asking for guidance and correction. So with my own personal doctrinal path, God has corrected me on much including salvation because the church grew up in preached Antinomianism. I have the utmost faith of God's guidance so no matter how difficult it is to determine God's standard, my faith is as long as I keep searching for it and keep asking for Gods direction, he'll get me to where I need to go. So I personally, haven't seen anything against the answer I have fallen on with the direction God has led me.

So, here is what I want you to do, here is what I want you to follow and it's been 1 topic after another as God has put on my heart to research into the sabbath because it was something he wanted me to follow. I can only speak for myself, but that is exactly what started the process into researching that in the first place. I first went back to understand the law and found out its not 1 group of laws altogether, that there are split ideas. Then I went to the new testament and read examples:

Matthew 5:17-20


Has everything been accomplished? Nope. We still have the Lord's second comming.

James 2:10-12


When it comes to specifically the sabbath:
We all know Matthew 24 is talking about end times so...
Matthew 24:20

That is still considered a future prophesy. Why would it matter if it was on the sabbath if the sabbath is done away with? Because...

Exodus 31:16-17

We are grafted into God's tree. Since keeping the sabbath was apart of the same law group that was taught by Jesus which included murder, theft, idolatry etc, that would mean that that set of rules still applies. When it comes to the Ceremonial laws of attonement, Jesus altered those.

And one that I think is plainly black and white...
Hebrews 4:9-11

The entire chapter of Hebrews 4 talks about the Sabbath and because it's linked to "disobedience" not to follow it, we can say that ties into the 10 commandments and not merely a suggestion or option.

This is just a sample of why I'm choosing to follow it because to me, scripture is clear on the matter and I don't want to be a disobedient child.
I really appreciate your detailed post and your great, humble attitude. As I am sure you know, there are multitudes of ways to "rest" on Saturday. I much prefer to rest at home all day.
 
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I really appreciate your detailed post and your great, humble attitude. As I am sure you know, there are multitudes of ways to "rest" on Saturday. I much prefer to rest at home all day.
I agree! As long as you rest, rest in anyway you wanna do it. Go fishing, read a book, hang out with family... I mean, the list goes on.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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I agree! As long as you rest, rest in anyway you wanna do it. Go fishing, read a book, hang out with family... I mean, the list goes on.
I think accepting the Sabbath is the first step and its huge! God says the Sabbath is really about spending sacred time with Him Isa 58:13, the Sabbath is the day to keep holy Exo 20:8 its a holy convocation Lev23:3 God does not want us isolated but in a family coming together to worship our Savior. It how Jesus Luke4:16 and the apostles Acts 13:42 Acts 13:44 Acts 15:21 Acts 18:4 kept the Sabbath and when Jesus comes, it continues on as a holy convocation, but instead of worshipping Him in Spirit, the saints will becoming before Him, in His presence for worship, every Sabbath. Isa66:22-23 :heart:
 
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Delvianna

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I think accepting the Sabbath is the first step and its huge! God says the Sabbath is really about spending sacred time with Him Isa 58:13, the Sabbath is the day to keep holy Exo 20:8 its a holy convocation Lev23:3 God does not want us isolated but in a family coming together to worship our Savior. It how Jesus Luke4:16 and the apostles Acts 13:42 Acts 13:44 Acts 15:21 Acts 18:4 kept the Sabbath and when Jesus comes, it continues on as a holy convocation, but instead of worshipping Him in Spirit, the saints will becoming before Him, in His presence for worship, every Sabbath. Isa66:22-23 :heart:
I personally think everyday is a day to spend with God lol Even if you just sit and say "Hi... sitting here, listening if you wanna share anything." Not always going to the Lord to fix something or give you something. I think the very first thing God did with me before salvation and everything else, was define what a "relationship" looks like. How can we say we know God and spend no time with him? And learning scripture isn't a substitute for a literal relationship. It's like reading an autobiography, can you say you have a friendship after reading their book? But I do agree with you about spending time with him on saturdays, but honestly, I would say everyday. Is the Lord not worth it?
 
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SabbathBlessings

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I personally think everyday is a day to spend with God lol Even if you just sit and say "Hi... sitting here, listening if you wanna share anything." Not always going to the Lord to fix something or give you something. I think the very first thing God did with me before salvation and everything else, was define what a "relationship" looks like. How can we say we know God and spend no time with him? And learning scripture isn't a substitute for a literal relationship. It's like reading an autobiography, can you say you have a friendship after reading their book? But I do agree with you about spending time with him on saturdays, but honestly, I would say everyday. Is the Lord not worth it?
Agree, we should worship and praise God 24/7 365. I read the Bible and pray daily, But God knows we have work and labors and families to attend to and gardening and gym , paying bills and what other daily activities that fill our lives. That's what makes the Sabbath so special is we can cast all of those things aside and just spend the Sabbath solely focusing on Him time alone and time with the church family Lev23:3 Acts 13:44 Isa66:23.

Isa 58:13 “If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure,
Nor speaking your own words,

14 Then you shall delight yourself in the Lord;
And I will cause you to ride on the high hills of the earth,
And feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father.
The mouth of the Lord has spoken.”

The Sabbath commandment is to cease working so we can keep the Sabbath day holy. Exo 20:8-11 Making it a joyful day spending time and resting in God on His sacred and holy day.
 
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