Hell doesn't exist and there is no eternal suffering, instead bad peolle just cease to exist

[Studyman]

I haven’t read every post as the thread is very long but what about what Jesus Christ warns ( 3 times) of in Mark 9:42-48? It is unquenchable fire & the worm does not die.

Yes, a fire that was created to punish immortal angels would have to burn forever, Yes?

Matt. 25:4 1Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

I think Paul understood this.

2 Thess. 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

9 Who shall be punished with "everlasting" destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Where is it possible for a man or even an angel to be hidden from God, or held in a place that God isn't present? Even the Rich Man Parable says he saw Abraham. How can Abraham or any life exist "from the presence of the Lord"?

I think Peter also understood.

2 Pet. 2: 9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment "to be punished":

10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.

12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and "destroyed", speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

My point is, that if a person considers all that is written, humans do not possess immortality. Angels do, that the eternal fire and "worms" are reserved for, but humans don't live forever, unless God grants them this right.

When men are raised from the dead and come face to face with what they gave up, for religious tradition or a few years of fleshy lusts that never satisfied any way. When they see that it was right there, they saw it and could have had it but rejected it, I don't think people really understands the grief and anger they will experience, before God destroys them with everlasting destruction by dropping their mortal souls and body into the Lake of Fire reserved for the immortal angels. A second death, a death from which there is no return, no hope of resurrection.

I don't find any of the Lord's Christ's Words which contradict the Words of the Lord's Christ.

Matt. 10: 28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

It is an interesting study for sure.

 

[Jipsah]

383 and 386

Nice try, but neither of those posts include a Scripture that says everyone lives forever. Probably because there is no Scripture that says that everyone lives forever, ,and the oly one that comes close is Satan telling Eve "Ye shall not surely die."

 

[Hentenza]

Nice try, but neither of those posts include a Scripture that says everyone lives forever. Probably because there is no Scripture that says that everyone lives forever, ,and the oly one that comes close is Satan telling Eve "Ye shall not surely die."

Both verses are for eternity. Maybe read them again?

 

[Jipsah]

I believe what scriptures teach.

Except when it conflicts with your belief that no one ever dies. "You shall not surely die", yes? It ought to say "The wages of sin is eternal life in torment", right?

 

[Jipsah]

Both verses are for eternity. Maybe read them again? I

Death seems pretty eternal to me. The dead are dead for a really long time. But alas, I'm stuck with reading what the Scripture says rather than whatever your denomination's doctrine says it really means.

But "dead" never really means "dead", for your lot, does it?

 

[Hentenza]

Except when it conflicts with your belief that no one ever dies. "You shall not sure die", yes? It ought to say "The wages of sin is eternal life in torment", right?

Aww you quoted my post but did not had the nerve to address the verses I posted. But then you want me to address yours. What a deal.

And to answer your misunderstanding of what death mean in your paraphrased verses.

“And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20‬:‭10‬, ‭14‬-‭15‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Revelation 20:14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

bible.com

There is the meaning of “the wages of sin is death”, the second death. Here those whose name was not found in the book of life are thrown into the same lake of fire where the beast and the false prophet were thrown in for eternity. Are you really going to try to argue that this is annihilation? I think not.

 

[Hentenza]

Death seems pretty eternal to me. The dead are dead for a really long time. But alas, I'm stuck with reading what the Scripture says rather than whatever your denomination's doctrine says it really means.

But "dead" never really means "dead", for your lot, does it?

““Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you accursed people, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25‬:‭41‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Matthew 25:41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you accursed people, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

“Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you accursed people, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels

bible.com

“These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25‬:‭46‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Matthew 25:46 These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

bible.com

Nothing here about annihilation.

 

[walter45]

Have you ever wondered: why would Jesus say some "will not see life", if people go on living after death in heaven or hell? John 3:36

before the resurrection?

 

[Hentenza]

Have you ever wondered: why would Jesus say some "will not see life", if people go on living after death in heaven or hell? John 3:36

“The one who believes in the Son has eternal life; but the one who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.””
‭‭John‬ ‭3‬:‭36‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

John 3:36 The one who believes in the Son has eternal life; but the one who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.” | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

The one who believes in the Son has eternal life; but the one who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.”

bible.com

Because the wrath of God remains on him?

 

[Studyman]

Have you ever wondered: why would Jesus say some "will not see life", if people go on living after death in heaven or hell? John 3:36

before the resurrection?

He said unless a man eats His Flesh there is no life in him. This is why, in my view, it is so important to consider all of Gods Words in the search for His Truth, as opposed to selecting a few of His Words for the purpose of justifying popular religious tradition.

 

[walter45]

Because the wrath of God remains on him?

How many times does Jesus use words in a figurative way, not a literal way? Over 200 times?

IMO no matter how you look at it, to live forever in hell and feel pain and torment for trillions of years, wouldn't that still be counted as everlasting life?

 

[Jipsah]

Aww you quoted my post but did not had the nerve to address the verses I posted. But then you want me to address yours. What a deal.

Did. You assume that "eternal punishment" can't be "eternal life in torment", because you don't believe that anyone ever actually dies. I 'spect we all got that in maybe the first 50 iterations.

And to answer your misunderstanding of what death mean in your paraphrased verses.

No misunderstanding. Dead means "dead". Not alive. Bereft of life. Deceased. 죽었어 . It does not mean "alive in torture", or "alive but extraordinarily unhappy". So when St Paul says "the wages of sin is death", he means "death", as in the state of being dead. No linguistic or interpretive gymnastics required; plain as a pikestaff.

“And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Yep, not dead.

Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.”

Which your doctrine requires the condemned to live forever to get the full effect. But it speaks only of the devil and the beast and the false prophet, doesn't it? Your belief that it includes pretty much everyone who ever lived is an artifact of your doctrine.

There is the meaning of “the wages of sin is death”, the second death.

Still means "dead", whether that causes inconvenience for those who share your doctrinal presuppositions or not.

Here those whose name was not found in the book of life are thrown into the same lake of fire where the beast and the false prophet were thrown in for eternity. Are you really going to try to argue that this is annihilation?

I'll take a page from your book - prove it ain't <Laugh>.

I think not.

That much is obvious. (That's the wages of feeding me an irresistible straight line.)

But seriously, you've once again demonstrated that in your doctrinal tradition, whatever it is, everyone is eternally alive, and no one ever actually dies. And no matter how many exegetical maneuvers you try, that isn't what Scripture says, at all.

 

[Jipsah]

““Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you accursed people, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;”

And we can safely assume that the fire is eternal.

“These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.””

Which is your economy mans they'fe both going way into eternal life, one in bliss, and one in torment, because in your beliefs No One Ever Actually Dies.

‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25‬:‭46‬

Nothing here about annihilation.

Except an unimportant and inconsequential comment about God destroying both body and soul in hell. And of course that can't really mean "destroy", now can it?

 

[walter45]

unless a man eats His Flesh there is no life in him

Matthew 26:26
New Living Translation
As they were eating, Jesus took some bread and blessed it. Then he broke it in pieces and gave it to the disciples, saying, “Take this and eat it, for this is my body.”

 

[Hentenza]

Except an unimportant and inconsequential comment about God destroying both body and soul in hell. And of course that can't really mean "destroy", now can it?

Can you point in Matt 25:46 where it contains the word “destroy”?

 

[Hentenza]

And we can safely assume that the fire is eternal.

Yes and so it is for those thrown in.

 

[Dan1988]

Yes, I agree. The philosophy that a Catholic priest can make water Holy is also in line with 2000 years of Church History. The teaching that mortal men will never die or be destroyed, but will live forever, is also a theology that is in line with many different religions and churches and has for centuries. There are many traditions and philosophies that are in line with "church" history. The Mainstream Preachers of Jesus time also promoted a theology that was inline with thousands of years of "church history".

But what I am advocating is that a man consider what is actually written in the Holy Scriptures. Not just one verse here or there that can be separated from the rest of the Bible, them "wrested" to support whatever religious philosophy that has been adopted. But to consider "Every Word of God" knowing that God doesn't contradict Himself.

What exists that God didn't create, besides Himself? How can I exist "apart from God"? Where does all conscious life come from? Where can I live, that God cannot see me? There is nowhere in the Bible where it is written that God raises a man from the dead who know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished;

And then grant them eternal conscious LIFE to suffer with the same immortal who deceived Eve into believing, "thou shall surely not die".

The God "of the Bible" doesn't sup[port such a theology.

We have two problems with the above. First of all, you believe that the Church is made up of thousands of denominations, with radically different beliefs about who God is. You idea of the Body of Christ is that it's made up of opposing factions who are at war with each other.

The truth is, there is only One true Church and Christ is the Head of it and His people are the members of His Body. Do you really believe that Christ would tolerate liars and false converts and scammers of every kind in His Body. I find that ridiculous, because I know Christ wouldn't tolerate having the Children of the Devil in Him.

Gods Word is clear that He only has One Church, and He has raised up faithful Members in every generation. You believe that the truth is relevant and everyone has their own version of it. But Gods Word confirms that there is only One truth and His Name is the Lord Jesus.

You still refuse to admit that your interpretation of the words "life" and "death" are not found anywhere in the bible. You won't even admit that what you actually believe is not found anywhere in the Bible and it's nothing more than your private opinion.

 

[Studyman]

We have two problems with the above. First of all, you believe that the Church is made up of thousands of denominations, with radically different beliefs about who God is.

There is a "church" that is defined exactly as you are saying. The philosophies you are promoting, are in line with 2000 years of tradition practiced by this religion/religious system/"church" or as Paul called it, "The course of this world".

I do not, nor have I implied, that I believe the "Church of God" is made up of thousands of religious sects and businesses. Just because you say something, or believe something, doesn't make it true.

You idea of the Body of Christ is that it's made up of opposing factions who are at war with each other.

No, that is your opinion of me based on malice and "tale bearing". My understanding of Scripture is that the Body of Christ are believers who are "doers of His Sayings", not hearer only. These are those who will endure to the end and die in hope that God will raise them from the dead and give them life eternal.

The truth is, there is only One true Church and Christ is the Head of it and His people are the members of His Body.

This is true. But remember, not everyone who calls Jesus Lord, Lord, are part of this Body.

Do you really believe that Christ would tolerate liars and false converts and scammers of every kind in His Body.

Of course not, but according to the Jesus, "of the Bible's, Words the members of God's Church will grow among liars and false converts and scammers of every kind until HE separates the tares from the wheat. Then, in the final judgment, the tares will be cast into a fire that burns forever, and the tares will be destroyed with an everlasting destruction, never to exist again in God's Creation. While the wheat will be saved unto eternal life. At least, this is what Jesus teaches.

The philosophy that God doesn't destroy wickedness, but preserves it for eternity even though HE has the power to destroy both body and soul, is popular no doubt. But I simply doesn't align with what the Scriptures say, when all God's Word in taken into consideration, in my understanding..

I find that ridiculous, because I know Christ wouldn't tolerate having the Children of the Devil in Him.

This is true. The children of the devil will transform themselves into apostles of Christ, they will be "many" that "Come in His Name", and "call Him Lord, Lord". But they won't be "doers" of the Christ's Sayings. HE said we can know them by their works.

Gods Word is clear that He only has One Church, and He has raised up faithful Members in every generation.

This is true.

You believe that the truth is relevant and everyone has their own version of it.

The mainstream preachers of Jesus time slandered Him for believing all that was written in the Holy Scriptures. The mainstream preachers of Paul's time slandered him for believing all that was written in the Holy Scriptures. And now you are slandering me for believing all that is written in the Holy Scriptures.

Perhaps you should step back and consider these things.

But Gods Word confirms that there is only One truth and His Name is the Lord Jesus.

Yes. Now if men would only believe Him.

John 8: 23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 I said therefore unto you, that ye "shall die" in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye "shall die" in your sins.

The promoters of this world's religious system teach that men with "Live in their sins" for eternity.

Jesus doesn't teach this.

You still refuse to admit that your interpretation of the words "life" and "death" are not found anywhere in the bible.

Again, I posted God's Words that speak to "Life and death", which show that they are opposite endings for all humans. And God alone grants them. This world's religions promote a philosophy that they are the same, that both death and life, mean "After Life". As the scriptures that I and others have posted, this interpretation, though in line with 2000 years of church history, does not reflect God's definition of this things, when all of His Words are taken in consideration.

You won't even admit that what you actually believe is not found anywhere in the Bible and it's nothing more than your private opinion.

You judgment of me is your private interpretation.

 

[Jipsah]

Yes and so it is for those thrown in.

Does not say that, though, does it? Y that’s your doctrine talking.

 

[Hentenza]

Does not say that, though, does it? Y that’s your doctrine talking.

It is the obvious interpretation. It does not say that they are annihilated either. The fire would not be eternal if the punishment was not eternal. If annihilation was right then the fire would go off as soon as all were annihilated.