Who then can be saved?

[Aseyesee]

Christian denominations agree that salvation comes through God's grace and Jesus Christ, but they differ on the role of faith and works, and how a person receives and maintains salvation.
Catholics emphasize faith expressed through active good works while Protestant Denominations vary, with many holding to "faith alone" (sola fide) as the primary path, though good works are seen as evidence of true faith.
The process can be viewed as a one-time event or a lifelong journey, and denominations like Reformed Christianity emphasize predestination, while Methodists focus on achieving entire sanctification.

Eastern Orthodoxy Theosis (Deification): Focuses on salvation as a process of theosis, or becoming united with God.
Means of Salvation: Achieved through the Church's mysteries (sacraments) and sanctification, viewed as a lifelong process rather than a legal or one-time event.

These are some of the views held by the various denominations, but which if any line up with what the Bible has to say about salvation.
Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God". This verse establishes that humanity is inherently sinful and separated from God, making self-salvation impossible.

Romans 3:10-12 "As it is written: 'There is none righteous, no, not one; There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God. They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one'".
These verses describe the universal fallen nature of man, confirming that no one naturally seeks God or performs righteous acts sufficient for salvation.

Titus 3:5 "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit". This verse directly contrasts salvation with human deeds, attributing it solely to God's mercy.

Ephesians 2:8-9 "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast".
This passage explicitly states that salvation is a gift from God, and not something earned through human actions.

Matthew 19:26 "But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible”". In response to the disciples' question about how the rich could be saved, Jesus highlights that salvation is beyond human power.

Jeremiah 13:23 "Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard his spots? Then may you also do good who are accustomed to doing evil".
While referring to the difficulty of changing evil habits, this verse metaphorically suggests a fundamental inability to change one's corrupted nature without divine help, which is relevant to the concept of salvation.

Is salvation, by grace or by works or by a combination of both.

Neither ...

 

[Dan1988]

Man can't save himself, but he can refuse to be saved. This is at God's discretion, for our highest good. Man can respond to grace, to God, or not, or respond today and later turn back away.

The gospel is simple. We don't call Him but if we answer when He calls, we become His people, connected to the Vine, and He puts His law in our minds and writes it on our hearts. If we remain in Him, John 15:5, we will produce much good fruit-and that fruit, in fact, is the best evidence that we're one of His.

So, the nearer we draw to Him, the nearer He draws to us and the more like Him we become- the more we begin to love as He does to put it best. And that love is the true mark of our sonship as well as our justice/righteousness; it's the law fulfilled in us, and the authentic motivator for the fruit that separates the sheep from the goats. It's our purpose, the reason we were created. And that's our salvation, not just escaping the fires of hell but becoming something great and noble that God has had in mind for man since the beginning.

You've simply taken texts that were made for exhortation and encouragement, and that will certainly end up pertaining to some who've heard them, and understood them in a wooden, fundamentalist black or white manner and as applying specifically to yourself, and infallibly so, while ignoring any warnings and admonishments that are also in scripture.. And while believers can certainly have a strong level of assurance, supported by the presence of that aforementioned fruit, and while God is infinitely trustworthy and true, no one can predict whether or not they will end up as good soil with some kind of perfect and infallible, absolutely certainty. That has never been part of the Christian faith.

None of that lines up with the gospel message in my Bible.

First of all, I've never found a single verse of scripture to support your view that a man can refuse to be saved. But the Bible is full of verses confirming that nobody can resist God, when He chooses to save a person.

God draws those He chose to save, to Himself. None of His elect can resist Him. Every single saved person turns away from God, but He keeps drawing them back and He never gives up on His elect. We see murderers, adulterers and all kinds of people being drawn back over and over again.

Jesus never offered salvation to anyone, when He was asked about how one can be saved, He simply said "if you believe in Me and you shall be saved". To say "if you" is stating a present reality and not some offer of a future reality if they fulfill some requirements.

You don't get to become His people and you don't get to abide in Him, because you made a choice to accept Him. No He choses His people and you don't get to chose anything.

John 15:16
You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.

If you chose God, then you have something to boast about. You can tell your friends that you're wiser then they are because you chose God and eternal paradise, while your poor unbelieving friends chose to suffer in the lake of, fire for all eternity.

I don't find man contributing or offering God anything, in exchange for salvation. The Bible is quite clear that there are none who seek after God, and all have sinned, and all are born dead in their sin. How can someone who is spiritually dead, who loves their sin, and is an enemy of God, change his nature to serve God instead.

 

[Dan1988]

Neither ...

If salvation is not by grace, or by works or a combination of both, then how can anyone be saved. Simply denying all three views, while not offering any alternative doesn't help.

 

[David Lamb]

Neither ...

If it is nether by grace nor by works, what do you believe to be the basis of salvation? I'm puzzled.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Christian denominations agree that salvation comes through God's grace and Jesus Christ, but they differ on the role of faith and works, and how a person receives and maintains salvation.
Catholics emphasize faith expressed through active good works while Protestant Denominations vary, with many holding to "faith alone" (sola fide) as the primary path, though good works are seen as evidence of true faith.
The process can be viewed as a one-time event or a lifelong journey, and denominations like Reformed Christianity emphasize predestination, while Methodists focus on achieving entire sanctification.

Eastern Orthodoxy Theosis (Deification): Focuses on salvation as a process of theosis, or becoming united with God.
Means of Salvation: Achieved through the Church's mysteries (sacraments) and sanctification, viewed as a lifelong process rather than a legal or one-time event.

These are some of the views held by the various denominations, but which if any line up with what the Bible has to say about salvation.
Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God". This verse establishes that humanity is inherently sinful and separated from God, making self-salvation impossible.

Romans 3:10-12 "As it is written: 'There is none righteous, no, not one; There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God. They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one'".
These verses describe the universal fallen nature of man, confirming that no one naturally seeks God or performs righteous acts sufficient for salvation.

Titus 3:5 "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit". This verse directly contrasts salvation with human deeds, attributing it solely to God's mercy.

Ephesians 2:8-9 "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast".
This passage explicitly states that salvation is a gift from God, and not something earned through human actions.

Matthew 19:26 "But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible”". In response to the disciples' question about how the rich could be saved, Jesus highlights that salvation is beyond human power.

Jeremiah 13:23 "Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard his spots? Then may you also do good who are accustomed to doing evil".
While referring to the difficulty of changing evil habits, this verse metaphorically suggests a fundamental inability to change one's corrupted nature without divine help, which is relevant to the concept of salvation.

Is salvation, by grace or by works or by a combination of both.

We are saved by grace through faith, because everyone has sinned and falls short of the glory of God and His righteousness.

The law cannot save us, the law shows us what is righteousness (right doing) Psa 119:172 and shows us our sins Rom 3:20 Rom7:7 (unrighteousness) and the need for a Savior that if we go to Him and confess (which means repent, a change in heart, and turn from or forsake Pro 28:13) He will cleanse us of all unrighteousness 1John1:9 and if we are abiding in Him John 15:5-10 He will do the work in us and be keeping His commandments Exo 32:16 Psa 78:7 John14:15-18 Col 1:29

While we are only saved by grace through faith our faith is demonstrated by our works to see if we are producing good fruit in Christ John15:5, if not our branch is cut off John15:6 as our works are of the other spirit 1 John 3:8 and not coming to Jesus because we like our sins (breaking God's laws- His version) more than we love Jesus to come to Him to heal and free us from the bondage of sin. John 3:19-21

This is the fruit of a saved person

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Notice it doesn't say faith in Jesus but of Jesus which is how He lived for our example 1 Peter 2:21-22 1John 2:6 and what He taught we are to live by Mat4:4

And the faith that reconciles us back to God.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

We are saved by grace through faith, our works demonstrate if our faith is genuine or not. God sorts through the wheat and tares Mat7:21-23

 

[fhansen]

If you chose God, then you have something to boast about. You can tell your friends that you're wiser then they are because you chose God and eternal paradise, while your poor unbelieving friends chose to suffer in the lake of, fire for all eternity.

Or if you do don’t choose God, having been made into an elected automaton, you can glory in your election, I guess, while telling your friends that you’re luckier than they are because God chose you for Himself and eternal paradise, while your poor unbelieving friends He chose for suffering in the lake of, fire for all eternity.

Or, knowing of the vital importance of this choice you may, instead, desire and seek the right choice from and for your friends, as Paul did,

“We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.” 2 Cor 5:20

 

[A New Dawn]

Your point was that we can know with absolute certainty that we're saved, and that's what I've been responding to.

"I want to know Christ—yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, and so, somehow, attaining to the resurrection from the dead.

Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus." Phil 3:10-14

No, we do them because of the love He's placed into our hearts. And, again, we can fail to do them, we can fail to love. The power is there, but we may or may not remain there, with Him.

No doubt, although Paul's conversion was more dramatic than most. But even he could've failed. Quite unlikely, I'm sure, but, again, God is not into creating automatons- or He never would've let man fall to begin with. There's a reason for our freedom, and its a beautiful reason, because only with it can we become lovers as God loves, even as that love is a gift of grace to begin with at the same time. And that love, as we value it, continue to value it, grow in valuing it, then grows in us as we express it, with all kinds of good fruit resulting.

Just depends on how far and persistently we stray. If we begin sinning like the devil while calling ourselves a child of God, or abusing His mercy by using His forgiveness as a license to remain in sin. then we're mocking Him and the sacrifice of His Son. There's a line....that's all-and your freedom to cross it remains throughout your life, with challenges and tests and temptations that can be quite powerful. In any case the change, based on our relationship with Him as it is, must be real: we must love. Here's an example of the need to reciprocate with the love that's been shown us:

For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. Matt 6:14-15

Well...yes, that's quite close to what I've been saying.

I've been through all that-I was AOG for several years. It was usually the "Are you saved?" or "Do you know you're saved"? crowd that I ended up unimpressed with, generally speaking. Now, all conversion stories in themselves usually have merit and are intertesting, informative, and helpful. But they're sometimes filtered through the lens of a particular theology that adds its own slant to things.

I’m not sure from your response(s) that you understand that there is a physical change in you when God gives you a new heart and makes you his own. It is a change that can’t be undone by us. He is sovereign over salvation. It is HIS salvation. He chooses, He changes, He gives us what we need to succeed. You don’t get to decide if you want it or not. There may be circumstances that you can voluntarily walk away from, but you are not unsaved because of it. It may be severe enough that God will correct you in some way, sometimes even by death, but you cannot make yourself unsaved. That’s what perseverance of the saints means.

I know there are instances where people thought they were saved because they might have had an emotional response to something, but that doesn’t save you, and the proof would be if you could walk away from it. If you can, then it wasn’t salvation, because Christ said that He would not lose even one whom the Father gives him to be saved.

And the issue you had with the “Are you saved?” crowd (whatever that means other than that all people have shortcomings) is just proof that instead of putting your faith in fallible men you should only put your faith in God.

 

[A New Dawn]

Or if you do don’t choose God, having been made into an elected automaton, you can glory in your election, I guess, while telling your friends that you’re luckier than they are because God chose you for Himself and eternal paradise, while your poor unbelieving friends He chose for suffering in the lake of, fire for all eternity.

Or, knowing of the vital importance of this choice you may, instead, desire and seek the right choice from and for your friends, as Paul did,

“We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.” 2 Cor 5:20

Yes, we all know that you can’t abide by the Doctrines of Grace. Thanks for reaffirming your position.

 

[fhansen]

Yes, we all know that you can’t abide by the Doctrines of Grace. Thanks for reaffirming your position.

No, I said that I or anyone can abide by the doctrines of grace. You just have to know your doctrines. And I can help you there, pointing to the ancient sources, largely influenced by Augustine's arguments against Pelagianism.

 

[Aseyesee]

If it is nether by grace nor by works, what do you believe to be the basis of salvation? I'm puzzled.

We don't do works themselves to obtain or do as something levied to keep what can't be bought, we walk in them which is God walking/working in us and even the faith to believe this is a gift of God ... in the end salvation is the person of God, which is why he is the author and finisher of the (behold now are we) sons we are ... if your eye is single faith and works are the same truth ...

 

[Aseyesee]

If salvation is not by grace, or by works or a combination of both, then how can anyone be saved. Simply denying all three views, while not offering any alternative doesn't help.

This is undone individually by learning obedience, outside of this it is simply a distraction ...

 

[A New Dawn]

No, I said that I or anyone can abide by the doctrines of grace. You just have to know your doctrines. And I can help you there, pointing to the ancient sources, largely influenced by Augustine's arguments against Pelagianism.

FYI, the Doctrines of Grace are what you call Calvinism. TULIP = the Doctrines of Grace. All TULIP does is acknowledge and elucidate how God uses grace for salvation.

Also, another FYI, Augustine was the first to fully grasp the same concepts of salvation through grace that TULIP teaches. So, seeing your hatred for Calvinism and salvation by grace, I have no interest in your supposed “help”. But when you come to understand that Augustine and Calvin were on the same side of the discussion of salvation by grace, come and get me and I will help you out.

 

[fhansen]

FYI, the Doctrines of Grace are what you call Calvinism. TULIP = the Doctrines of Grace. All TULIP does is acknowledge and elucidate how God uses grace for salvation.

Also, another FYI, Augustine was the first to fully grasp the same concepts of salvation through grace that TULIP teaches. So, seeing your hatred for Calvinism and salvation by grace, I have no interest in your supposed “help”. But when you come to understand that Augustine and Calvin were on the same side of the discussion of salvation by grace, come and get me and I will help you out.

Yes, I know of TULIP, of course, and I'm aware that Calvinism virtually adopted Augustine as their own due mainly to his work and emphasis on grace in battling Pelgianism. And the Catholic Church, BTW, calls him the Doctor of Grace-and the CC has the correct understanding and application of that work, as well, which is where you need help.

 

[Dan1988]

We are saved by grace through faith, because everyone has sinned and falls short of the glory of God and His righteousness.

The law cannot save us, the law shows us what is righteousness (right doing) Psa 119:172 and shows us our sins Rom 3:20 Rom7:7 (unrighteousness) and the need for a Savior that if we go to Him and confess (which means repent, a change in heart, and turn from or forsake Pro 28:13) He will cleanse us of all unrighteousness 1John1:9 and if we are abiding in Him John 15:5-10 He will do the work in us and be keeping His commandments Exo 32:16 Psa 78:7 John14:15-18 Col 1:29

While we are only saved by grace through faith our faith is demonstrated by our works to see if we are producing good fruit in Christ John15:5, if not our branch is cut off John15:6 as our works are of the other spirit 1 John 3:8 and not coming to Jesus because we like our sins (breaking God's laws- His version) more than we love Jesus to come to Him to heal and free us from the bondage of sin. John 3:19-21

This is the fruit of a saved person

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Notice it doesn't say faith in Jesus but of Jesus which is how He lived for our example 1 Peter 2:21-22 1John 2:6 and what He taught we are to live by Mat4:4

And the faith that reconciles us back to God.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

We are saved by grace through faith, our works demonstrate if our faith is genuine or not. God sorts through the wheat and tares Mat7:21-23

From what I gather, you believe that salvation is not by grace as the Bible says, but it's by a combination of Gods grace and your faith. My Bible tells me, that you have no faith or anything else to contribute to the finished work of Christ on the cross.

I can't find anything in the Bible to support your version of the gospel, where Jesus did His part on the cross and you do your part by using the faith you created within yourself to complete the work of salvation.

The law can save us, but the obvious problem with that truth is that nobody apart from the Lord Jesus has been able to keep the law. So we can conclude that God gave us the commandments to show us that we are dead in our sin and we can't keep any of them.

We also need to take into consideration, that salvation under the old covenant means you had to keep around 600 laws. But those under the new covenant don't need to keep any laws to be saved, because the Lord Jesus kept them on behalf of those His Father gave Him to save.

When we read the old testament, we see that keeping the law was a requirement for salvation. But we never see that under the new covenant, all we ever see in the new testament is exhortations to encourage believers to strive against temptation. But there is never a hint that a believer can lose his salvation if he fails to keep any of the exhortations.

Jesus never commanded anyone to keep any laws, He always said "if you abide in Me" or "if you believe in Me". If never means "I command you", why would He say "if", if He really meant "I command you".

"If you are an Ethiopian", then nobody can command you to be an Ethiopian. Likewise, if you are not an Ethiopian, then nobody can command you to be an Ethiopian. It's really very simple but the vast majority of professing Christians have major problems getting their minds around simple logic.

So Jesus says, "if you are a believer" then you will abide in Me and you will believe in Me. He never said I command you to believe in Me or I command you to abide in Me, that would be ridiculous, because Jesus would never command a spiritually dead person to abide in Him or to believe in Him. It would be utterly foolish, especially when the Bible says in -

I Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Why would Jesus command a spiritually dead person to receive the things of he Spirit of God, Jesus is not that out of touch with reality that He would embarrass Himself and make impossible commands.

Only those who God has regenerated and given them the gift of faith, will respond by embracing the gospel. But those who are dead in their sin, will remain that way forever, unless God regenerates them and quickens them to life.

 

[Dan1988]

Or if you do don’t choose God, having been made into an elected automaton, you can glory in your election, I guess, while telling your friends that you’re luckier than they are because God chose you for Himself and eternal paradise, while your poor unbelieving friends He chose for suffering in the lake of, fire for all eternity.

Or, knowing of the vital importance of this choice you may, instead, desire and seek the right choice from and for your friends, as Paul did,

“We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.” 2 Cor 5:20

I did not chose God, because I hated Him and I loved my sin instead. I was totally committed and consumed with fulfilling my lust and I was in bondage to Satan, who blinded me to the truth so there was no way I would even consider serving God.

Dead people cannot chose to serve God or even believe in Him, so I boast in my Redeemer. How can a totally depraved wicked sinner, take any credit for being made alive out of his dead sate???

 

[SabbathBlessings]

From what I gather, you believe that salvation is not by grace as the Bible says, but it's by a combination of Gods grace and your faith. My Bible tells me, that you have no faith or anything else to contribute to the finished work of Christ on the cross.

I can't find anything in the Bible to support your version of the gospel, where Jesus did His part on the cross and you do your part by using the faith you created within yourself to complete the work of salvation.

The law can save us, but the obvious problem with that truth is that nobody apart from the Lord Jesus has been able to keep the law. So we can conclude that God gave us the commandments to show us that we are dead in our sin and we can't keep any of them.

We also need to take into consideration, that salvation under the old covenant means you had to keep around 600 laws. But those under the new covenant don't need to keep any laws to be saved, because the Lord Jesus kept them on behalf of those His Father gave Him to save.

When we read the old testament, we see that keeping the law was a requirement for salvation. But we never see that under the new covenant, all we ever see in the new testament is exhortations to encourage believers to strive against temptation. But there is never a hint that a believer can lose his salvation if he fails to keep any of the exhortations.

Jesus never commanded anyone to keep any laws, He always said "if you abide in Me" or "if you believe in Me". If never means "I command you", why would He say "if", if He really meant "I command you".

"If you are an Ethiopian", then nobody can command you to be an Ethiopian. Likewise, if you are not an Ethiopian, then nobody can command you to be an Ethiopian. It's really very simple but the vast majority of professing Christians have major problems getting their minds around simple logic.

So Jesus says, "if you are a believer" then you will abide in Me and you will believe in Me. He never said I command you to believe in Me or I command you to abide in Me, that would be ridiculous, because Jesus would never command a spiritually dead person to abide in Him or to believe in Him. It would be utterly foolish, especially when the Bible says in -

I Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Why would Jesus command a spiritually dead person to receive the things of he Spirit of God, Jesus is not that out of touch with reality that He would embarrass Himself and make impossible commands.

Only those who God has regenerated and given them the gift of faith, will respond by embracing the gospel. But those who are dead in their sin, will remain that way forever, unless God regenerates them and quickens them to life.

The Bible does not teach everyone is saved by grace alone. The Bible teaches we are saved by grace through faith Eph 2:8 and faith does not void the Law it establishes it Rom 3:31 How does someone have faith but not faith enough to put that into action. Faith is not passive as you are suggesting, it is very active. I suggest reading the faith chapter Heb 11 to see examples of this. Why we are told to be doers of the word James 1:22-26- Jesus said only those that DOES the will of the Father will enter into heaven Mat7:21-23 one of the last verses before the second coming of Jesus says Blessed are those that DO His commandments may enter into the Kingdom, those who don’t are left outside Rev22:14-15

I am not sure how this got so twisted that obeying God is bad and disobeying Him is good. It’s not a teaching from our Lord and Savior Exo 20:6 John 14:15 John15:10

Luke 6:46 “But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?

Faith is a Big word but sadly many reduce it to a very small one.

Grace is God’s gift to give or not give and He says its given through faith. If Abraham didn’t listen to God about Issac when his faith was tested God would have chosen someone else to make Him a great nation. Disobedience to God is rebellion, unbelief and sin. Heb 3:7-19 not faith.

 

[A New Dawn]

Yes, I know of TULIP, of course, and I'm aware that Calvinism virtually adopted Augustine as their own due mainly to his work and emphasis on grace in battling Pelgianism. And the Catholic Church, BTW, calls him the Doctor of Grace-and the CC has the correct understanding and application of that work, as well, which is where you need help.

I am fully aware of the place of works in salvation. There isn’t any. Your little counter to my saying works are done in gratitude for what God has done in our lives of “No, we do them because of the love God has placed in our hearts” is almost amusing. What is it you think God has done in our lives if it isn’t putting love in our hearts. It’s like you want to argue for the sake of arguing. Read Ephesians 2:8-10 to know what role works play.

 

[A New Dawn]

The Bible does not teach everyone is saved by grace alone. The Bible teaches we are saved by grace through faith Eph 2:8 and faith does not void the Law it establishes it Rom 3:31 How does someone have faith but not faith enough to put that into action. Faith is not passive as you are suggesting, it is very active. I suggest reading the faith chapter Heb 11 to see examples of this. Why we are told to be doers of the word James 1:22-26- Jesus said only those that DOES the will of the Father will enter into heaven Mat7:21-23 one of the last verses before the second coming of Jesus says Blessed are those that DO His commandments may enter into the Kingdom, those who don’t are left outside Rev22:14-15

I am not sure how this got so twisted that obeying God is bad and disobeying Him is good. It’s not a teaching from our Lord and Savior Exo 20:6 John 14:15 John15:10

Luke 6:46 “But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?

Faith is a Big word but sadly many reduce it to a very small one.

Grace is God’s gift to give or not give and He says its given through faith. If Abraham didn’t listen to God about Issac when his faith was tested God would have chosen someone else to make Him a great nation. Disobedience to God is rebellion, unbelief and sin. Heb 3:7-19 not faith.

Let’s finish that verse in Ephesians you started to quote. It says we are saved by grace through faith which is a gift. God chooses sinners who have no faith and grants them (us) saving faith so he can enact his salvation on us. Remember, salvation belongs to the Lord. It is His to give and not ours to take.

Show me where it says that it is up to us to choose to be saved and not God who chooses us.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Let’s finish that verse in Ephesians you started to quote.

I thought I quoted it

The Bible teaches we are saved by grace through faith Eph 2:8 Grace is God’s gift to give or not give

It says we are saved by grace through faith which is a gift. God chooses sinners who have no faith and grants them (us) saving faith so he can enact his salvation on us. Remember, salvation belongs to the Lord. It is His to give and not ours to take.

Show me where it says that it is up to us to choose to be saved and not God who chooses us.

Still doesn't change what God said who will enter into His Kingdom- the doers of the Word Mat 7:21-23 Rev 22:14 the hearers only sadly just deceive themselves James 1:22. I will never understand how people think an example of faith is disregarding what Jesus tells us. Not in an isolated verse, but all of His teachings and by example- for us to follow 1 Peter 2:21-23 1 John 2:6.

Our actions demonstrate if our faith is genuine or not why we are judged by our works 2 Cor 5:10 Ecc 12:13-14 Mat5:19-30 Rev 22:14-15, those who receive grace is because all have sinned, it doesn't mean we have to keep sinning if in Christ, in fact we are told there are a people who overcome Rev 14:12 which this faith reconciles back to God Rev 22:14. There is no Scripture that says everyone will be saved. Jesus made that clear Mat7:21-23 despite His desire and will for mankind John 3:16

An example of grace...

Being pulled over for speeding, asking the police officer for mercy. He gives a warning instead of a ticket. Does that void the law. Does that mean one can rev up their engine and speed away. Of course not.

This is the same as what Jesus taught. When He gave grace to the adulterous women, did He say go now and keep on sinning. He said the opposite- Go and Sin no more- meaning stop breaking My commandments.

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

We are to confess and forsake our sins, not continuing living in sin. Pro 28:13 that means a heart change, turning from sin, abiding in Christ, keeping God's commandments John 15:10 why would anyone who is in Christ not want to. He doesn't even make us do this alone John 14:15-18 but it requires our cooperation, but sadly many refuse Rom 8:7-8 because they like their sins more than their love for Jesus to seek His help in forsaking them. John 3:19-21

We are not saved in our sins, we are saved from sin Mat 1:21


Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” [g]says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.