Shooting kills 3 transgender women outside Karachi, Pakistan

[Lukaris]

When all is said & done, the stoning ( & beheadings too) occur in Islamic societies. It is true that Mexican drug cartels behead unfortunate people also but they just ain’t Christian.

 

[RileyG]

Love can entail supporting people who are facing injustice. Otherwise, love is just a hollow sentiment.



How Muslim cultures define homosexuality doesn't line up necessarily with western categories. In some parts of the Muslim world, it might look like more of a prohibition on what sociologists in the US and Britain would think of as "men who have sex with men", not any and all gender variant identities or behaviors. It's also complicated by the fact many non-western cultures, due to missionary influence or global culture, adopted western concepts of sexuality, including homophobia: this happened particularly in Japan. 19th century Edo culture in Japan had no prohibitions on homosexuality, but as Japan modernized, it adopted a medicalized view of sexuality, including western ideas of "normal" sexuality.

Hmmmm….i’m NOT entirely knowledgeable about East Asian countries regarding their views on homosexuality et al, but I’m aware that the movie Brokeback Mountain was banned in China because homosexuality is considered taboo, even though China is mostly an atheistic country. (Yes, I actually saw the movie).

It’s mostly the same in Japan, where gay and lesbians don’t have legal recognition of their relationships, when Japan is mostly a mixture of Shinto and Buddhist beliefs.

As far as Islamic countries as a whole, I honestly don’t know their attitudes. A majority of Muslims are peaceful people….but Islamic countries on the other hand aren’t known to be exactly tolerant of those different from them. To say the least.

For the record, I’m not making a blanket statement about Muslims. Extremists in any religion do NOT define all of the faithful.

I actually know of a Yazidi family that left Iraq because of persecution.

Peace

 

[FireDragon76]

Hmmmm….i’m NOT entirely knowledgeable about East Asian countries regarding their views on homosexuality et al, but I’m aware that the movie Brokeback Mountain was banned in China because homosexuality is considered taboo, even though China is mostly an atheistic country. (Yes, I actually saw the movie).

Modern Chinese attitudes about homosexuality are influenced alot by missionaries, global cultural trends, and modern state ideology. Ancient China had varied attitudes. Some Confucian scholars saw certain forms of same sex relationships negatively, but not necessarily in the way Christians did.

There actually was a folk religious cult in premodern China devoted to a deified gay man, who became known as Tu Er Shen or the Rabbit God ("rabbit" in Chinese slang refers to a gay men, since rabbits are difficult to sex, suggesting the idea of gender fluidity, which fits a common understanding of homosexual and transgender behaviors in non-western cultures). There's even a temple dedicated to him in modern Taiwan. Some Confucian scholars viewed the cult negatively, but the cult's origins are in folk religion heavily shaped by Taoism and shamanism.

It’s mostly the same in Japan, where gay and lesbians don’t have legal recognition of their relationships, when Japan is mostly a mixture of Shinto and Buddhist beliefs.

Yes, that's mostly a legacy of modernity. But you can still find echoes of the past, such as the concept of bishonen (beautiful boys) in anime and manga, which is influenced by Chinese aesthetics and philosophy, and the legacy of Japanese homoeroticism. Something similar wasn't unheard of in Europe, either. Many of Shakespeare's sonnets were written with a young male as the subject, not a woman. It was quietly glossed over by the Victorians, and Americans largely inherit that reading today. But it's relatively uncontroversial among serious scholars of Shakespeare.

The Japanese courts have also recently ruled that the refusal to recognize same-sex marriage is unconstitutional. However, the legal process is still ongoing. Large Japanese cities have gay neighborhoods, like Ni-Chome in Tokyo, that are well known to many people in Japan. Japanese religion also tends to be widely tolerant of gay people, though much of Japanese religious organizations are small and family-run affairs, and don't necessarily have national influence. The issue is that talking about anything perceived as different in Japan is culturally difficult, not because it's perceived as sinful, but because it's seen as embarrassing to emphasize ones own differences from the group.

As far as Islamic countries as a whole, I honestly don’t know their attitudes. A majority of Muslims are peaceful people….but Islamic countries on the other hand aren’t known to be exactly tolerant of those different from them. To say the least.

I met a gay man once from Morocco and he dressed in traditional women's clothes of that country, which is a traditional gender identity in Morocco. However, modern North Africa isn't necessarily safe for gay people, for alot of reasons. Male rape is used by gangs sometimes as a way to establish dominance or humiliate people, often gay men are targeted (maybe this is what the actual sin of Sodom was about?).

 

[MrMoe]

Love can entail supporting people who are facing injustice. Otherwise, love is just a hollow sentiment.

Jesus never supported evil. Supporting a country that wants Israel wiped off the face of the earth is supporting evil.

How Muslim cultures define homosexuality doesn't line up necessarily with western categories. In some parts of the Muslim world, it might look like more of a prohibition on what sociologists in the US and Britain would think of as "men who have sex with men", not any and all gender variant identities or behaviors. It's also complicated by the fact many non-western cultures, due to missionary influence or global culture, adopted western concepts of sexuality, including homophobia: this happened particularly in Japan. 19th century Edo culture in Japan had no prohibitions on homosexuality, but as Japan modernized, it adopted a medicalized view of sexuality, including western ideas of "normal" sexuality.

The view of homosexuality in Islam comes from the Quran and the Hadith. They both condemn homosexuality. Neither Japan or any western country criminalise homosexuality like many majority Muslim countries do. Islam is a religion that is incompatible with modern societies.

 

[MrMoe]

I knew a Sunni Muslim girl in college. She was quite supportive of LGBT+ people, but then again, I don't know how practicing she was. I drank with her plenty of times, and I knew she used to eat pork. I think she had more of a tolerant mindset, so to speak.

She would be considered a “cafeteria” Muslim, just like some Catholics are considered “cafeteria Catholics”. They pick and choose the bits of the religion they like and ignore the bits they don’t like.

 

[RileyG]

Modern Chinese attitudes about homosexuality are influenced alot by missionaries, global cultural trends, and modern state ideology. Ancient China had varied attitudes. Some Confucian scholars saw certain forms of same sex relationships negatively, but not necessarily in the way Christians did.

There actually was a folk religious cult in premodern China devoted to a deified gay man, who became known as Tu Er Shen or the Rabbit God ("rabbit" in Chinese slang refers to a gay men, since rabbits are difficult to sex, suggesting the idea of gender fluidity, which fits a common understanding of homosexual and transgender behaviors in non-western cultures). There's even a temple dedicated to him in modern Taiwan. Some Confucian scholars viewed the cult negatively, but the cult's origins are in folk religion heavily shaped by Taoism and shamanism.



Yes, that's mostly a legacy of modernity. But you can still find echoes of the past, such as the concept of bishonen (beautiful boys) in anime and manga, which is influenced by Chinese aesthetics and philosophy, and the legacy of Japanese homoeroticism. Something similar wasn't unheard of in Europe, either. Many of Shakespeare's sonnets were written with a young male as the subject, not a woman. It was quietly glossed over by the Victorians, and Americans largely inherit that reading today. But it's relatively uncontroversial among serious scholars of Shakespeare.

The Japanese courts have also recently ruled that the refusal to recognize same-sex marriage is unconstitutional. However, the legal process is still ongoing. Large Japanese cities have gay neighborhoods, like Ni-Chome in Tokyo, that are well known to many people in Japan. Japanese religion also tends to be widely tolerant of gay people, though much of Japanese religious organizations are small and family-run affairs, and don't necessarily have national influence. The issue is that talking about anything perceived as different in Japan is culturally difficult, not because it's perceived as sinful, but because it's seen as embarrassing to emphasize ones own differences from the group.



I met a gay man once from Morocco and he dressed in traditional women's clothes of that country, which is a traditional gender identity in Morocco. However, modern North Africa isn't necessarily safe for gay people, for alot of reasons. Male rape is used by gangs sometimes as a way to establish dominance or humiliate people, often gay men are targeted (maybe this is what the actual sin of Sodom was about?).

Thanks for the response. I wasn't aware of much of that.

Peace

 

[RileyG]

She would be considered a “cafeteria” Muslim, just like some Catholics are considered “cafeteria Catholics”. They pick and choose the bits of the religion they like and ignore the bits they don’t like.

Yes. That is very true.

 

[FireDragon76]

Thanks for the response. I wasn't aware of much of that.

Peace

A few politicians in Japan have tried to import American-style Evangelical culture war rhetoric about LGBT persons in the past decade or so, even trying to network the idea into the remnants of the "State Shinto" organization (which isn't as influential as it sounds), but it's been mostly rejected as going against the Japanese spirit of avoiding controversy and seeking social harmony.

There was actually an internationally famous Japanese author named Yukio Mishima, who, while not identifying as gay, clearly was at least bisexual, and his homoeroticism fits a typical Japanese pattern- present, but not necessarily crystalized as an identity. He was actually the last person to die by ritual suicide in Japan, in an impractical but symbolic attempt to overthrow the civilian government. He had his own private mysticism that was eclectic, and his flamboyance often placed him outside the mainstream of Japanese culture, but his life served as a kind of drag performance of "the Way of the Pen and the Sword" (bunbu ryodo).

 

[Hvizsgyak]

The same is often said of Christianity.

Two more suspects in attack on Renton transgender woman arrested

Four suspects are accused of beating up a transgender woman at the Renton Transit Center, and the attack is being investigated as a hate crime.

www.king5.com

I don't see the connection here. The teens were ever identified as practicing Christians. Actually, even in the incident that happened in Pakistan, there is no mention that the perpetrators were practicing Islamists. So, in the end, nobody really knows why the three people were killed in Pakistan and it is only speculation that the motive is because they were transgendered.

 

[Hvizsgyak]

Killing anyone (no matter what they believe or do or say) is ABSOLUTELY WRONG. I believe we can all agree on that, right?