The Lost House of Israel

[Dan Perez]

I use the Revised English Bible 1989. It and most other Bible versions, make it clear that Christians are the true Israelites of God.
To think the current citizens of the Jewish State of Israel are Gods chosen people, is gross error; made only to support the false rapture to heaven theory.

[Staff edit]

And just asking. , who do you call those that are in Israel TODAY with a verse ??

and all those Jews that occupy NEW YORK TODAY and those that live in the USA. ??

DAN P

 

[Dan Perez]

You are a purveyor of untruths.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 never says humans will be taken to heaven, there - or anywhere else in the Bible.
Those faithful Christians who kept strong and trusted the Lord through all that must happen before Jesus Returns, will be transported to where He will be; in the clouds, then in Jerusalem.

Then explain 1. Thess 4:13-17. and did the Holy Spirit not pass typing school. ??

dan p

 

[Delvianna]

We can argue translations all day, but it comes down to this... Concepts/teachings dont conflict with each other. So if you make a statement that says the church is now the true Israel, then nothing else in the bible should conflict with that view. The problem is, there ARE conflictions.
The reference to the "body of Christ", the reference to a distinction between "Christians" and "Jews" when Paul taught.

Zion was a fortress that David captured in ancient Jerusalem. An Israelite is someone from the country of Israel. I think you're trying to argue a "spiritual" Israel which doesn't exist. I don't have ancestry in Israel, nor was I born in Israel, there for I am not an Israeli. I suggest you take a step back, and realize that your argument has a lot of holes and the fact it contradicts scripture in general, means it needs to be thrown out.

 

[Dan Perez]

We can argue translations all day, but it comes down to this... Concepts/teachings dont conflict with each other. So if you make a statement that says the church is now the true Israel, then nothing else in the bible should conflict with that view. The problem is, there ARE conflictions.
The reference to the "body of Christ", the reference to a distinction between "Christians" and "Jews" when Paul taught.

Zion was a fortress that David captured in ancient Jerusalem. An Israelite is someone from the country of Israel. I think you're trying to argue a "spiritual" Israel which doesn't exist. I don't have ancestry in Israel, nor was I born in Israel, there for I am not an Israeli. I suggest you take a step back, and realize that your argument has a lot of holes and the fact it contradicts scripture in general, means it needs to be thrown out.

And you are not saying that my version of the 1 Thess 4:13-17 is wrong and I do not mind that that you want to be

and umpire , SO what do you say about 1 Thess 4:17 really means ??

And in 1 Thess 4:13-17 I see 4 different resurrections , and how many do you see. , just asking. ??

By the way I am a dispensationalist , Pre- TRI and PRE-MIL just so you know where I stand !!

dan p

 

[Delvianna]

And you are not saying that my version of the 1 Thess 4:13-17 is wrong and I do not mind that that you want to be

and umpire , SO what do you say about 1 Thess 4:17 really means ??

And in 1 Thess 4:13-17 I see 4 different resurrections , and how many do you see. , just asking. ??

By the way I am a dispensationalist , Pre- TRI and PRE-MIL just so you know where I stand !!

dan p

My message was to the original poster, not to you.

 

[David Lamb]

My message was to the original poster, not to you.

In Dan's defence, I feel I should point out that there was nothing in your message to indicate whom you were addressing.

 

[keras]

Then explain 1. Thess 4:13-17. and did the Holy Spirit not pass typing school. ??

dan p

....the Lord Himself will descend from heaven.....
Obviously this Prophecy refers to the glorious Return, accompanied by Gods Trumpet blast.

It is crazy, or delusional, to think we Christians will go to heaven, when Jesus has departed from there.

 

[Delvianna]

In Dan's defence, I feel I should point out that there was nothing in your message to indicate whom you were addressing.

I figured since I havnt hit reply to respond to anything specific, the assumption would be I'm replying to the original post. If I'm wrong here, then I'll make it more apparent, but I've never had issues doing this on any other forum.

 

[Dan Perez]

My message was to the original poster, not to you.

And I then I misunderstood and thank you for your reply and THANK YOU AGAIN !

dan p

 

[Dan Perez]

In Dan's defence, I feel I should point out that there was nothing in your message to indicate whom you were addressing.

And thanks DAVID and it is my mistake and should have read with more care and THANKS AGAIN !!

dan p

 

[Dan Perez]

....the Lord Himself will descend from heaven.....
Obviously this Prophecy refers to the glorious Return, accompanied by Gods Trumpet blast.

It is crazy, or delusional, to think we Christians will go to heaven, when Jesus has departed from there.

And in 1. Cor 6:2 says that we will GOVERN the UNIVERSE , and means HEAVEN !!

Then in 1 COR 6:3 :we will GOVERN ANGELS !!

And only those who will be in. the UNIVERSE , will be the BODY of Christ . period !!BE

Just asking for your thoughts ??

dan p

 

[keras]

And in 1. Cor 6:2 says that we will GOVERN the UNIVERSE , and means HEAVEN !!

Then in 1 COR 6:3 :we will GOVERN ANGELS !!

And only those who will be in. the UNIVERSE , will be the BODY of Christ . period !!BE

Just asking for your thoughts ??

dan p

When, Dan?
NOT now, NOT when Jesus Returns, NOT during the Millennium, ONLY when the Great White Throne Judgment has happened and ONLY by those whose names are found in the Book of Life,

Any ideas and beliefs of living in the Spiritual realm before that Judgment, are wrong and cannot happen.

 

[Dan Perez]

When, Dan?
NOT now, NOT when Jesus Returns, NOT during the Millennium, ONLY when the Great White Throne Judgment has happened and ONLY by those whose names are found in the Book of Life,

Any ideas and beliefs of living in the Spiritual realm before that Judgment, are wrong and cannot happenAND no Now in 2025 Not when. Jesus returns as He has not RETURNED YET , Not during the Millennium has not happened

YET NOT at the same time Great White Throne has NOT HAPPENENED

And which Book of LIFE do you mean ??

# 1. THE BOOK OF LIFE IN , Rev 14

# 2 Or the one in Phil 4:3

# 3 Or. the one in Rev 3:5

# 4 Or the one in Rev 13:8

# 5 Or the one in Rev 20:15

# 6 Or the one in. Rev 22:27 //

#. 7 OR maybe the one in. Rev 22:19

#8 And which one are you. you talking about. ??

# 9. Or you talking about 1. Cor 3:12-15. ?/

dan p

 

[keras]

And which Book of LIFE do you mean ??

There is only one Book of Life. To be opened after the Millennium. Daniel 7:9-10

Please do not add to the copy of my post.
Your style and attitude is like you know it all and those who disagree are a lower form of life. Try to post in a more rational and normal manner.

 

[Dan Perez]

There is only one Book of Life. To be opened after the Millennium. Daniel 7:9-10

Please do not add to the copy of my post.
Your style and attitude is like you know it all and those who disagree are a lower form of life. Try to post in a more rational and normal manner.

And I read Dan 7:9-10 and did NOT see a word called BOOK. of LIFE or see the word Millennium. , so how will you explain ??
WOW , and you noticed that I know it all and should HAVE been. a Preacher !!

And you had 9 Book. of Life and disappointed that you would have at lest picked ONE ??

dan p

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

You are a purveyor of untruths.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 never says humans will be taken to heaven, there - or anywhere else in the Bible.

Except 2 Kings 2:11 proves you wrong. EliYahu was human AND taken to Heaven ALIVE.

 

[keras]

Except 2 Kings 2:11 proves you wrong. EliYahu was human AND taken to Heaven ALIVE.

Sure, there may be exceptions to any rule.

However, that incident does not say that Elijah actually lived in heaven and 2 Chronicles 21:12, says he sent a letter to King Joran after he was transported away from Elisha.
Anyway; to make this incident into a proof for a 'rapture to heaven', of the Christian peoples, before Jesus Returns, is an impossible stretch of imagination. There is simply; no scripture that says the Lord will take His people to heaven. Many say we must endure until the end.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Sure, there may be exceptions to any rule.

Anyway; to make this incident into a proof for a 'rapture to heaven', of the Christian peoples, before Jesus Returns, is an impossible stretch of imagination. There is simply; no scripture that says the Lord will take His people to heaven. Many say we must endure until the end.

So don't make absolute statements like you did then...I never said it was proof of anything other than you being wrong when you made that statement.

 

[keras]

SCATTERED AMONG THE NATIONS :
Ancient Israel did not do as the Lord had commanded them. They worshipped idols and rebelled against His Laws. Ezekiel 12:1 So the Lord sent them into exile – Ezekiel 12:3, for a decreed time period; Ezekiel 4:4-6 Before this happened, the Israelites had split into two kingdoms; then the House of Israel, was taken into exile by Assyria, and the House of Judah, deported by Babylon. Deuteronomy 4:27

What happened to them and the land?
Ezekiel 6:8-14 Among the nations, there will be those of you who have survived the sword and are scattered in foreign lands. They will remember Me while in exile and they will loath themselves for the evil they have done.
Remember the Lord, that is: become Christians.

You will know that My threats were not in vain. Justice will be done. Nahum 1:2-3
Cry in pain, because of your wickedness, people of Israel. You will die by sword, famine and plague. Black Death, civil wars, world wars, starvation, etc.
So, I will spend My wrath upon them. Your Land will become a desolation.
Travellers in the 1800’s were amazed at the awful conditions in the Middle East of desertification, still today; with water shortages and continuing strife.

In Ezekiel chapter 11, after the House of Israel had been exiled, Ezekiel is prophesying to the leaders of Judah. In verses 1 to 13, he says that Judah too, will be conquered. Then in verse 15, he mentions their brothers and kinsmen, [the House of Israel, then in Northern Assyria] to whom the inhabitants of Jerusalem say: They are separated far from the Lord, the land has been made over to us [Jews] to possess.

Ezekiel 11:16-44 Say therefore, When I dispersed them over the earth, I became their sanctuary in the countries where they have gone. I shall gather you from among the nations and I shall give the Land of Israel to you. Judah has come back, but in apostasy.
They will abolish all idols and vile practices. Not done yet.
I will give them a new heart and a new spirit. Wait for it!
They will keep My laws and I will be their God. Great will be the Day!

Go you Israelites and serve your idols! But in days to come I will punish you.
On My holy mountain in the Land, the whole [peoples] of Israel will serve Me.
I will accept you, when I have brought you out of all the places where you were sent.
I will bring you into the Land which I promised to the forefathers.
You will remember your past and will hate yourselves for it.
You will know that I am the Lord when I deal with you, not as you really deserve, but as the honour of My holy Name demands.

But now, as we approach the end times, we see a Jewish restoration, but in unbelief. Zechariah 12:7 The Lord will free Judah first, for their greater glory. The State of Israel, now in a part of the holy Land, but they still reject their Messiah and now face another Judgement; the third swing of the Sword. Ezekiel 21:1-14

The forthcoming Day of the Lord’s wrath is also the judgement of Judah, as in:
Amos 2:4-5, Jer. 13:19, Zeph. 1:4-6, Obadiah 1:12-16, Isaiah 4:3-4, Matthew 21:41-43

Ezekiel 20:46-47 O man, turn toward the South, prophesy to the desert of the Negev. The Lord God says: I am about to kindle a fire in you. Its fiery flame will not be put out; everyone to the North will be scorched by it. Zephaniah 1:14-18
The Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath, Revelation 6:12-17

Isaiah 63:4 I resolved on a Day of vengeance, the year for redeeming My own has come.
I stamped on peoples in My anger and their blood poured out on the ground. Psalms 110

This event will depopulate most of the Middle East, leaving the way for His people; Israel: the descendants of Jacob, plus those grafted in, mostly from the nominally Christian nations, still scattered around the world, to gather in the ‘wilderness’:

Ezekiel 20:34-38 By My strong arm and outpoured wrath, I shall bring you out from the peoples and gather you from the lands where you were dispersed.
I shall confront you and bring you to judgement. Those who rebel will remain in the desert.

Who are the Israelites? Certainly, some must be ethnic descendants of the Patriarchs’, as in:-
Amos 9:8-9 I shall not totally destroy Jacobs posterity. I will shake Israel among the nations and not one pebble will fall to the ground.

Isaiah 14:1 The Lord will again show compassion for Jacob [the 12 tribes of Israel] and will once again make Israel His choice. He will resettle them on their native soil and aliens will join them.
Peoples from every race, nation and language. Isaiah 66:18b-21, Revelation 7:9

All faithful Christians have the wonderful promises of the New Testament:-
Acts 2:39 This promise is to you and your children, to all who are far away, to everyone whom the Lord may call.

Luke 12:32-40 Have no fear, little flock, for your Father has chosen to give you the Kingdom. Sell your possessions, give to charity. Provide for yourselves treasure [rewards] in Heaven. Be ready for action. Be like a servant, ready to let your Master in as soon as He knocks.
Happy are those servants whom the Master finds awake when He comes. Truly, I tell you, He will seat you at the table and wait on you.
If it is midnight or before dawn and you are still awake, then great will be your reward.
Remember, if the householder had known when a thief would come, he would have stopped him.
So, be ready for the Son of Man will come when you least expect Him.
This refers to the Lord’s Day of fiery wrath, not His Return, when He will be expected, as the armies of the Anti-Christ attack Jerusalem. Revelation 19:19
Reference; Revised English Bible, some verses condensed.

 

[Dan Perez]

So don't make absolute statements like you did then...I never said it was proof of anything other than you being wrong when you made that statement.

And you never said where the word RAPTURE. is found in the BIBLE ,as there is NOT a Greek word called RAPTURE,,

and in my 40. years have yet to see it in. the KJV at all. !! I. am speaking to MISTER TATE. !!

And will be AGOG. if you find it ??

dan p