I hold a view similar to the Open View of God.

[Strong in Him]

I see this as meaning, like the Gentiles are now God's chosen people, that God had always planned this to occur.

That's not what is says.

We were a chosen people, in Him, in Christ.

We ARE a chosen people - God chose us before the creation of the world.
He always knew us and that we would belong to him.

 

[Dan Perez]

That's not what is says.

We ARE a chosen people - God chose us before the creation of the world.
He always knew us and that we would belong to him.

And that verse is in. Eph 1:4. , just. as HE CHOSE us , BEFORE. // PRO , the OVERTHROW. OF THE WORLD !! YOU. have it right on. !!

dan p

 

[FutureAndAHope]

That's not what is says.

We ARE a chosen people - God chose us before the creation of the world.
He always knew us and that we would belong to him.

God does not pick and choose a little group of "sheep". He wants "all" to come to the truth.

For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe. (NKJV, 1 Timothy 4:10)​

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And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. (NKJV, 1John 2:2)​

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For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time, (NKJV, 1Timothy 2:3-6)​

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Eze 33:11 Say to them: 'As I live,' says the Lord GOD, 'I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why should you die, O house of Israel?'​

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God loves the whole world, everyone He has made. We need to see people through God's eyes, as loved, valued. Every person marked out for salvation, although not all will follow.

 

[David Lamb]

God does not pick and choose a little group of "sheep". He wants "all" to come to the truth.

For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe. (NKJV, 1 Timothy 4:10)​

​

And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. (NKJV, 1John 2:2)​

​

For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time, (NKJV, 1Timothy 2:3-6)​

​

Eze 33:11 Say to them: 'As I live,' says the Lord GOD, 'I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why should you die, O house of Israel?'​

​

God loves the whole world, everyone He has made. We need to see people through God's eyes, as loved, valued. Every person marked out for salvation, although not all will follow.

Who said anything about a little group? Revelation talks of the redeemed as a multitude which no man can number. It is strange how those who don't believe in God's election often seem to give the false idea that those of us who do believe it also believe that only a few will be saved.

 

[BeyondET]

I know what you were suggesting about that scripture I meant if the following is not to be taken literally. How should it be interpreted?

Gen 6:5-7 Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. So the LORD said, "I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them."

I think God literally was grieved in His heart, though He literally didn't wipe out all of mankind nor all the animals.

 

[Strong in Him]

God does not pick and choose a little group of "sheep". He wants "all" to come to the truth.

Where did I say otherwise?

As a Methodist, I certainly believe that all can be saved - although not all will be.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Who said anything about a little group? Revelation talks of the redeemed as a multitude which no man can number. It is strange how those who don't believe in God's election often seem to give the false idea that those of us who do believe it also believe that only a few will be saved.

It is not about how many will be saved. But rather "who" God desires salvation for. All people are a target of God's redemption, not a "preselected" group.

 

[Mark Quayle]

It is not hard for God to know man "may" sin. He need not know they would. He only had to have provision for the fact that they might.



All of these things can be attributed to God's planning, and in the case of Peter, knowing Peter's heart, and the test that was coming to him; they need not rely upon "perfect foreknowledge".



Not at all God can put constraints on what creation, can, and can not do. The world is not going to crumble if God has given genuine free choices to mankind.




If God is as powerful and creative as we imagine HIm to be, would He not rather experience the highs and lows of interacting with His creation, rather than imposing a linear will upon them.

Regardlessof all of that scientifically, it is possible that one can move through time in both forward and backwards directions (according to chatgpt). If this is the case; it is certainly possible for God to traverse time. Some things He may "know" due to an ability He has to manipulate time. If He has foreknowledge, it is not due to a lack of us being truely free agents.

One of Justin Martyr's students summed it up this way:

The Logos, too, before the creation of men, was the Framer of angels. And each of these two orders of creatures was made free to act as it pleased, not having the nature of good, which again is with God alone, but is brought to perfection in men through their freedom of choice, in order that the bad man may be justly punished, having become depraved through his own fault, but the just man be deservedly praised for his virtuous deeds, since in the exercise of his free choice he refrained from transgressing the will of God. Such is the constitution of things in reference to angels and men. And the power of the Logos, having in itself a faculty to foresee future events, not as fated, but as taking place by the choice of free agents, foretold from time to time the issues of things to come; (Tatian 110-172 AD, Address to the Greeks Chapter 7)

Apparently you can't see that your structure makes God subject to facts greater than himself. For example, you make him subject to mere chance, which is a self-contradictory notion. Chance can cause nothing. Do you suppose God was wandering about aimlessly and came upon a set of principles he made use of to create a universe? The principles, logic and reality itself, are God's doing. He is not subject to them, even if he does subject himself to them for a purpose. He is not a resident within a larger reality the way we are.

 

[Mark Quayle]

It is not about how many will be saved. But rather "who" God desires salvation for. All people are a target of God's redemption, not a "preselected" group.

Assertion. In our many many interactions, I have yet to see proof of this, though, granted, you have tried...

 

[Fervent]

Open theism diminishes God not only in His omniscience, but in His omnipresence. When God says He is the beginning and the end He is affirming that He is already present at the end of the world. While we traverse time, it is always present to God. When Jesus said "Before Abraham was, I am" He spoke of this omnipresence, though Abraham's time had long since passed for those in HIs company it had not passed for Him.

Open theism speaks of a God that can fail, not the God that has already won the victory.