A very hungry newborn planet. European Southern Observatory Picture of the Week

[AV1611VET]

3. Ethical/Religious Barriers

• Testing consecrated elements is likely to be viewed as profoundly disrespectful or sacrilegious by many believers.
• That reverence may explain the absence of such testing, particularly in Catholic and Orthodox traditions where the Eucharist is central.

Are you now saying scientists didn't test the elements?

Did they or didn't they?

Make up my mind.

 

[RileyG]

What appears to be a ripple in space, is today’s Picture of the Week depicting a newborn planet eating its way through its dusty cradle as it orbits its host star. This image, taken with ESO’s Very Large Telescope (VLT) in Chile, is the first clear detection of a baby planet in a disc with multiple rings.

View attachment 369098

Today I learned planets are still actively being created.

How come I never learned this before?

 

[Hans Blaster]

Do you really expect us to believe that?

Yes, I do.

I have *NEVER* heard any scientist I knew or worked with say anything like "how does this affect my religion?" or "how does this damage a religion I don't like?". Not once. Never. That isn't how science works.

How much scientific sweat equity and money was poured into looking for evidence of the Flood?

Oh, my. Do you know nothing about the history of geology? Modern geology's formation about 200 years ago was largely driven by looking for evidence of your "Flood". (Spoiler: they didn't find it and realized that the Earth had to be much, much older than 6000 years.)

or of evidence of two million Israelites living in the desert?

I know the Israelis spent some effort in an attempt to prove the Sinai was "theirs" (through some ancient religious claim) during Israel's occupation of that bit of Egypt. The found nothing. Subsequent surveys have also come up empty.

or to analyze the DNA of consecrated wine and wafers?

Why would you care about that Catholic claim? I would expect that you find it blasphemous. A certain english poster has gone on about this and the supposed studies, but I've seen no evidence that the work wasn't motivated by faith, nor that there is a good chain of custody on any of them.

or the effects of prayer? or of ...

That's been studied too. For intercessory prayer of those not aware they were being prayed for, the effect was not detectable. (For those who know they were being prayed for, the results were more negative outcomes.)

You might get more interaction on these kinds of issues and questions if you stopped copying and pasting the same dozen or so posts with great frequency particularly into threads where they are not on topic (as all of these questions were), AND stop characterizing scientists as if they are nefarious criminals.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Today I learned planets are still actively being created.

How come I never learned this before?

I don't know how.

Beta Pic was imaged in 1983 with a dust disk of the kind where planets were expected to form, and the ESO (remember ESO) imaged a planet in the gap of the disk in 1996.

File:Beta Pictoris system annotated.jpg - Wikipedia

Ongoing star formation (which is easier to detect and where we should find forming planets) has been identified for longer.

My favorite bit of current astronomy is ALMA's ongoing imaging studies of young and forming planetary systems.

 

[RileyG]

I don't know how.

Beta Pic was imaged in 1983 with a dust disk of the kind where planets were expected to form, and the ESO (remember ESO) imaged a planet in the gap of the disk in 1996.

File:Beta Pictoris system annotated.jpg - Wikipedia

Ongoing star formation (which is easier to detect and where we should find forming planets) has been identified for longer.

My favorite bit of current astronomy is ALMA's ongoing imaging studies of young and forming planetary systems.

I don’t remember learning much about the solar system beyond elementary.

Last thing I remember was writing an opinion piece on Pluto no longer being a planet in 2006 when I was in 5th grade.

Our universe is endlessly fascinating, for sure.

 

[AV1611VET]

Last thing I remember was writing an opinion piece on Pluto no longer being a planet in 2006 when I was in 5th grade.

Just out of curiosity, was this in science class?

If so, why is science asking for your opinion?

Did you feel pressured to say Pluto was no longer a [full-fledged] planet?

 

[RileyG]

Just out of curiosity, was this in science class?

If so, why is science asking for your opinion?

Did you feel pressured to say Pluto was no longer a [full-fledged] planet?

Yes. It was 5th grade for a writing project or something. I don’t remember the exact details because it was so long ago.

 

[AV1611VET]

Yes. It was 5th grade for a writing project or something. I don’t remember the exact details because it was so long ago.

Okay, thanks.

Just curious.

 

[RileyG]

Okay, thanks.

Just curious.

You’re welcome

 

[Larniavc]

but similarly young and hot and fairly massive for a planet (five times Jupiter) as measured using stellar and planetary evolution models.

If it ate enough to double it’s mass might it fusion start happening?

 

[AV1611VET]

That in no way at all answered his question.
You were asked: "The first king of united Egypt and the likely unifier was Narmer and he lived 5100 years ago. Is that before or after your grandson of Noah (who unlike Narmer, I've never heard of before)?"

How can this Narmer come before Mizraim???

That's like saying President Bush came before James Madison.

Or Queen Elizabeth before the Magna Charta.

 

[Hans Blaster]

If it ate enough to double it’s mass might it fusion start happening?

The fusion limit is about 80 Jupiter masses.

 

[AV1611VET]

Actually, they know a lot more about Egypt, more than enough to state that the claim in the Bible of it being founded by Mizraim is not a claim that is backed up by any evidence outside of the Bible whatsoever.

From AI Overview:

According to the Bible, Egypt was not directly founded by Mizraim, but he was considered the ancestor and progenitor of the Egyptian people, and the name "Mizraim" became synonymous with Egypt in Hebrew texts. The ancient Egyptians, as descendants of Mizraim, were believed to have settled in the land along the Nile River following the Tower of Babel.

Thus Egypt came after the Flood, not before it.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

From AI Overview:

According to the Bible, Egypt was not directly founded by Mizraim, but he was considered the ancestor and progenitor of the Egyptian people, and the name "Mizraim" became synonymous with Egypt in Hebrew texts. The ancient Egyptians, as descendants of Mizraim, were believed to have settled in the land along the Nile River following the Tower of Babel.

Thus Egypt came after the Flood, not before it.

And none of that tallies with the evidence that the Egyptian kingdom existed during the time of the Flood and would have been analogous with both the Flood and the Tower of Babel.

 

[AV1611VET]

Why wouldn't it, AV? Why don't we see in the recorded history of Egypt a sudden stop as the entire population of Egypt is wiped out in the space of days to massive flood waters?

You don't get it, do you?

Why don't we see in the recorded history of Wales a sudden stop as the entire population of Wales is wiped out in the space of days to massive flood waters?

Could it be because the Welsh came from Gomer, another grandson of Noah?

Genesis 10:2 The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.

 

[Hans Blaster]

You don't get it, do you?

Why don't we see in the recorded history of Wales a sudden stop as the entire population of Wales is wiped out in the space of days to massive flood waters?

Could it be because the Welsh came from Gomer, another grandson of Noah?

Genesis 10:2 The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.

We weren't talking about Welshlandia. We were talking about Egypt. Traceable, dateable, continuous history in Egypt goes back to *BEFORE* the date you gave for "the flood". It was real people who wrote those contemporary records during era of pyramids *BEFORE* the flood date you gave. Why is there no evidence of all of those Egyptians being killed in 2348 BCE?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

You don't get it, do you?

Why don't we see in the recorded history of Wales a sudden stop as the entire population of Wales is wiped out in the space of days to massive flood waters?

Could it be because the Welsh came from Gomer, another grandson of Noah?

Genesis 10:2 The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.

And that's even worse of a problem, because we certainly do not see that at all! It would be such a thing that it is tantamount to there being no evidence for the Flood.

Your entire line of argument is literally: the evidence of the Flood is that there is no evidence of the Flood! Checkmate!

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

We weren't talking about Welshlandia. We were talking about Egypt. Traceable, dateable, continuous history in Egypt goes back to *BEFORE* the date you gave for "the flood". It was real people who wrote those contemporary records during era of pyramids *BEFORE* the flood date you gave. Why is there no evidence of all of those Egyptians being killed in 2348 BCE?

Since he's from Guam, I think me being Welsh makes me very exotic to him.

 

[AV1611VET]

And none of that tallies with the evidence that the Egyptian kingdom existed during the time of the Flood ...

What flood?

What flood is your evidence pointing to?

... and would have been analogous with both the Flood and the Tower of Babel.

I have a feeling you don't have any evidence that points to the Flood in the Bible.

 

[Hans Blaster]

What flood?

The Bible flood.

What flood is your evidence pointing to?

GEnesis.

I have a feeling you don't have any evidence that points to the Flood in the Bible.

That's the problem -- no evidence of a flood -- and why we don't take the grandson of Noah founder of Egypt claim seriously. A country that exists already when the event your are discussing already exists there is no reason to claim someone from that story "founded it".

If the Genesis flood is just some local flood on the Euphrates, or where ever you think it was, and not at all in Egypt, then why does it even matter to the rest of the world?