Yehovah God will not send you to Hell!

[th1bill]

So God is basically FORCED to let people send themselves to burn alive forever and is totally helpless to do anything about it, without that magical "choice" not to do so? Unlikely.

God can change anyone He wants to, in an instant, in the blink of an eye.

He needs the choices of NO ONE, and in fact probably isn't even interested in seeing how "morally acceptable" anyone can "choose" to be, in order to FORCE HIM to reward us via "our choices."

Who is the real God in such proclamations? Obviously it would only be the "chooser" and not GOD who is only FORCED into reacting to the chooser.

It's an upside down personal back patting position that holds no scriptural water

Did you read to comprehend or to find error?

 

[Jeff Saunders]

It is you who does not understand hell and God's justice. While hell is a terrible concept, we are all under the curse of sin. Anyone who does not believe this and does not seek their Savior, Jesus, says Christ died for nothing. That too is a terrible thought.
We are all utterly lost and under condemnation until faith in Jesus which Romans declares will then credit us with the righteousness of Jesus.

As for following the commandments, that is fulfilled in living and sowing to please the Spirit and thereby putting to death the deeds of the flesh. Live in love: love for God and love for your brother. This love is not worldly mushy love. It is strong spiritual love. Love that has the spiritual strength to correct his neighbor and also the deep fellowship live.

Your making a common mistake , its not faith in Jesus, its the faith of Jesus, Jesus trusted that the Father would use his sacrifice to save his cosmos, remember he was fully man, he faced the cross not as a super human that could do anything, but as a man who had all the emotions as any human but was obedient all the way. Rom 5:18 Just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Did you read to comprehend or to find error?

If you think the observation was incorrect feel free to point out supposed errors.

The spiel you presented is a typical works gospel

 

[Hentenza]

Your making a common mistake , its not faith in Jesus, its the faith of Jesus,

Are you sure?

John 3:16
““For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3‬:‭16‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.

bible.com

Those with faith IN Him have eternal life. Those WITHOUT faith IN Him to not.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Are you sure?

John 3:16
““For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3‬:‭16‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.

bible.com

Those with faith IN Him have eternal life. Those WITHOUT faith IN Him to not.

Are you sure?

John 3:16
““For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3‬:‭16‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.

bible.com

Those with faith IN Him have eternal life. Those WITHOUT faith IN Him to not.

Read the next verse John 3:17 For God sent his Son into the cosmos not that he might pass judgement on the cosmos, but that the cosmos might be saved through him. This does not say that its our faith in him saves the cosmos but that the cosmos is saved through him, that is all of Jesus doing that saved us, not us having enough faith to believe to save ourselves by our faith. Yes I am sure its the faith of Jesus that saves us.

 

[Hentenza]

Read the next verse John 3:17 For God sent his Son into the cosmos not that he might pass judgement on the cosmos, but that the cosmos might be saved through him. This does not say that its our faith in him saves the cosmos but that the cosmos is saved through him, that is all of Jesus doing that saved us, not us having enough faith to believe to save ourselves by our faith. Yes I am sure its the faith of Jesus that saves us.

Then read John 3:18.

“The one who believes in Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3‬:‭18‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

John 3:18 The one who believes in Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

The one who believes in Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

bible.com

Attempting to prove doctrine by isolating verses is called verse mining and it leads to error. Do you think the person that has been judge already is saved?

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Then read John 3:18.

“The one who believes in Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3‬:‭18‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

John 3:18 The one who believes in Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

The one who believes in Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

bible.com

Attempting to prove doctrine by isolating verses is called verse mining and it leads to error. Do you think the person that has been judge already is saved?

What is the judgement ? I see the judgement as, have you metanoia yourself ( changed your thinking to align with what Jesus had done) so if you believe in Jesus you are in agreement with what he has done, if not you are judged already as not being in agreement with what Jesus has done.
And without faith, which is agreeing with God about what they have done in Jesus , you cannot please God.
So the judgement is are you doing what pleases God and agreeing with what he has done or are you still in the old man, worldly way of thinking.

 

[Hentenza]

What is the judgement ? I see the judgement as, have you metanoia yourself ( changed your thinking to align with what Jesus had done) so if you believe in Jesus you are in agreement with what he has done, if not you are judged already as not being in agreement with what Jesus has done.
And without faith, which is agreeing with God about what they have done in Jesus , you cannot please God.
So the judgement is are you doing what pleases God and agreeing with what he has done or are you still in the old man, worldly way of thinking.

The judgement is explicitly told in verse 19-21. Verse 19 begins “and this is the judgement…” So it is telling you but you ignore it and instead make something up that does not follow.

Verse 16- no faith no eternal life.
Verse 17- He came to reconcile the world (no cosmos in this verse)
Verse 18- He reconciles those that believe in Him without judgment and reconciles those that do not believe in him with judgement.
Verse 10-22-the judgement- people who believe in Christ come to the light while those that did not remain in darkness and do evil things.

The choice is ours. Belief equals eternal life and unbelief does not.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

The judgement is explicitly told in verse 19-21. Verse 19 begins “and this is the judgement…” So it is telling you but you ignore it and instead make something up that does not follow.

Verse 16- no faith no eternal life.
Verse 17- He came to reconcile the world (no cosmos in this verse)
Verse 18- He reconciles those that believe in Him without judgment and reconciles those that do not believe in him with judgement.
Verse 10-22-the judgement- people who believe in Christ come to the light while those that did not remain in darkness and do evil things.

The choice is ours. Belief equals eternal life and unbelief does not.

vs 16 said nothing of eternal life but aionios zoen which is Greek for life of the age.
vs 17 go to Bible Hub and look up the Greek kosmos is used.
As far as the judgement I said the same thing,
Our choice is to get our thinking in line with what Jesus did, if so we are walking in the life of the age ( remember when we align our thinking with Jesus we cross over from death to life ) if not we are still in darkness and are facing the judgement of the age, kolasis aionios, corrective punishment of Matt 25:46
This is how the early church believed.

 

[Lukaris]

I believe the Lord explains an absolute standard of salvation in belief and condemnation of unbelief. In between are multitudes of non believers ( not all are inherent unbelievers, they just don’t know ) who will be judged by their works. God ultimately tells us those who did good will be saved and those who did evil will be condemned. I believe this is much of what the Lord tells us like in John 3:16-21, John 5:22-30 etc.

 

[Hentenza]

vs 16 said nothing of eternal life but aionios zoen which is Greek for life of the age.

Strong’s Definitions
αἰώνιος aiṓnios, ahee-o'-nee-os; from G165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well):—eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).

Good luck with your mistranslation. Nothing here about an age. The verse is correctly translated as eternal life.

vs 17 go to Bible Hub and look up the Greek kosmos is used.

Strong’s Definitions
κόσμος kósmos, kos'-mos; probably from the base of G2865; orderly arrangement, i.e. decoration; by implication, the world (in a wide or narrow sense, including its inhabitants, literally or figuratively (morally)):—adorning, world

It means world. Again the verse is correctly translated.

As far as the judgement I said the same thing,
Our choice is to get our thinking in line with what Jesus did, if so we are walking in the life of the age ( remember when we align our thinking with Jesus we cross over from death to life ) if not we are still in darkness and are facing the judgement of the age, kolasis aionios, corrective punishment of Matt 25:46

There is nothing in these verses teaching that we have to get our thinking in line with Christ. These verses all speak of faith. Have faith you are saved while no faith leads to condemnation. It is that simple.

Matt 25:46 does not help you.

This is how the early church believed.

This heresy was condemned during the 5th Ecumenical council in 553ad.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Those with faith IN Him have eternal life. Those WITHOUT faith IN Him to not.

It is God who gives us love.
2 Timothy 1:7
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

God has given us the spirit of LOVE.

Since faith works through love, Gal. 5:6, then God's Love in us is in fact His Faith

 

[Hentenza]

It is God who gives us love.
2 Timothy 1:7
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

God has given us the spirit of LOVE.

Since faith works through love, Gal. 5:6, then God's Love in us is in fact His Faith

Context context context

Nothing here supports your error. Gal 5-6 is a contrast between those that seek circumcision and those that do not. Those that seek it must keep the whole law because they think that they can one justified by the law. Now verse 5 tells you but you simply ignore it because it does not fit with your error.
“For we, through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5‬:‭5‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Galatians 5:5 For we, through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

For we, through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness.

bible.com

The faith is ours not God. We need to have faith not God as you suggest.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Not a lot of emphasis on the Spiritual Transformation in Salvation. Well, whatever, this conversation reminded me of the following song.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

This is how ultimate reconciliation works:

The souls in the lake of fire get completely purified of sin. However, this process takes so long that the personality of the people who had those souls is completely erased.

God gets the souls back, but the sinners died.

Ultimate reconciliation does not explain this aspect.

 

[Hentenza]

This is how ultimate reconciliation works:

The souls in the lake of fire get completely purified of sin. However, this process takes so long that the personality of the people who had those souls is completely erased.

God gets the souls back, but the sinners died.

Ultimate reconciliation does not explain this aspect.

Can you support your hypothesis with scripture?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Can you support your hypothesis with scripture?

Sure, but since it's also disproven by scripture, I see no point.

 

[Clare73]

Sure, but since it's also disproven by scripture, I see no point.

Scripture does not contradict itself. . .only your understanding contradicts itself.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Context context context

Nothing here supports your error. Gal 5-6 is a contrast between those that seek circumcision and those that do not.

Well, only if we read the first half of the verse, but the real intent of the observation is this part:

Gal. 5:6
- The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

Hopefully you see that faith shows itself through love, THEREFORE where there is love, there is faith.

Instant proof of faith.

Not some hocus pocus toss your glasses in the trash and hope you have the faith to see without them. That's NOT faith.

Those that seek it must keep the whole law because they think that they can one justified by the law. Now verse 5 tells you but you simply ignore it because it does not fit with your error.

I'm not a works gospel proclaimer if that's what you're getting at.

“For we, through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5‬:‭5‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

The faith is ours not God. We need to have faith not God as you suggest.

Well, love obvious comes from God as noted previously from 2 Tim. 1:7

Therefore we can easily see that love comes from God which means that faith comes therefore from God as well.

People don't conjure up faith all by their lonesome. It's never happened that way and is technically impossible.

For further emphasis on love coming from God (proof of faith)

1 John 4:7
Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.

It's basically a free for all in unlimited quantities

 

[Hentenza]

Well, only if we read the first half of the verse, but the real intent of the observation is this part:

Gal. 5:6
- The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

Hopefully you see that faith shows itself through love, THEREFORE where there is love, there is faith.

Instant proof of faith.

Not some hocus pocus toss your glasses in the trash and hope you have the faith to see without them. That's NOT faith.

lol did you not read Galatians 5:3-4 What happens to those that are justified by the law? Wait for it…….. have been severed from Christ and fallen from grace. How are believers saved? Ephesians 2:8 by grace. So if they have fallen from grace then they are NOT saved.

I'm not a works gospel proclaimer if that's what you're getting at.

Let’s continue with Ephesians 2:9. Is it by works that the believer is saved? Of course not.

Well, love obvious comes from God as noted previously from 2 Tim. 1:7

Therefore we can easily see that love comes from God which means that faith comes therefore from God as well.

People don't conjure up faith all by their lonesome. It's never happened that way and is technically impossible.

How does your unscriptural hypothesis that God has faith for us square with John 1:12 ?

For further emphasis on love coming from God (proof of faith)

1 John 4:7
Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.

It's basically a free for all in unlimited quantities

Why are you mining verses that seem to agree with you but ignore the ones that do not? Did you not read the verse after the one you quoted above? Read 1 John 4:8. What happens to the person that does NOT love?