Yehovah God will not send you to Hell!

[1Tonne]

Yes, you can continue in sin after you believed and still be saved. We all sin. Sin does not nullify the faith. Or else we would lose salvation daily.

The influence of the Holy Spirit will transform you so that you will leave more and more sins, but this is a process in time. Being saved and continuing murdering is basically a nonexistent situation, because it is so extreme. But for example sexual sins, stealing, lying and similar are more common.

I fully agree.
D Taylor has said in other threads that all you have to do is simply believe, and then if you continue in sin, no matter what the sin is, you are still saved. (Hence, I used extreme sins such as murder to point out how wrong he is). This belief comes from a narrow view of the bible. He selects certain verses in John but ignores others.
So, I believe that we will continue to fall short of God's, but our desire will be to leave our sin and as time goes on, sin will become less and less. We do this not to earn our way to heaven but simply to honour God. This desire to honour God comes from being born again. (So, I do not believe in sinless perfection)

 

[Hazelelponi]

I would just caution that we aren't talking about perfect repentance. No one has perfect repentance. What we have is a perfect God .

It's just a small point to make.

 

[th1bill]

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I would suggest this book The Atonement and Other Writings

Those are not the Holy Scriptures telling us about and how to worship Yehovah God.

 

[Der Alte]

All sin has been paid for by Jesus on the cross, sin sends no one to the lake of fire.​

Repenting of sin or sins for the born again child of God, restores a broken relationship the child has with God their Father. It may also help the born again believer avoid an earthly death judgment (Ananias,/Sapphira) from God their Father.

Repenting of sin or sins for the unbeliever may avoid a earthly judgment from God or just the natural consequences of sin. An example, if an unbeliever is an alcoholic and they repent of the sin of their alcoholism. Then they may not suffer some type of consequence of problems, that come with being an alcoholic.

Or repenting of a sin or sins in their life may make the unbeliever more open to believing in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life. But the repenting of sin does not give a person eternal life, only the believing in Jesus does.

One can make the Bible say almost anything they want it to by quoting selective verses out-of-context.

Jeremiah 13:10​

(10) This evil people, [Israel] which refuse to hear my words, which walk in the imagination of their heart, and walk after other gods, to serve them, and to worship them, shall even be as this girdle, which is good for nothing.​

Jeremiah 13:13-14​

(13) Then shalt thou say unto them, Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will fill all the inhabitants of this land, even the kings that sit upon David's throne, and the priests, and the prophets, and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, with drunkenness.​

(14) And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.​

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Matthew 7:21-23​

(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.​

(22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?​

(23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.​

When Jesus says "never" He does not mean some day by and by.

Romans 1:24​

(24) Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:​

Romans 1:26​

(26) For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:​

Romans 1:28​

(28) And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;​

 

[d taylor]

One can make the Bible say almost anything they want it to by quoting selective verses out-of-context.

Jeremiah 13:10​

(10) This evil people, [Israel] which refuse to hear my words, which walk in the imagination of their heart, and walk after other gods, to serve them, and to worship them, shall even be as this girdle, which is good for nothing.​

Jeremiah 13:13-14​

(13) Then shalt thou say unto them, Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will fill all the inhabitants of this land, even the kings that sit upon David's throne, and the priests, and the prophets, and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, with drunkenness.​

(14) And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.​

​

Matthew 7:21-23​

(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.​

(22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?​

(23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.​

When Jesus says "never" He does not mean some day by and by.

Romans 1:24​

(24) Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:​

Romans 1:26​

(26) For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:​

Romans 1:28​

(28) And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;​

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So show where i have done what you say i am doing, here is the 20th chapter of Revelation


Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

There are a few things worth responding to, not to argue for tradition’s sake, but to ask: Are we letting Scripture interpret Scripture, or are we reinterpreting it through a selective lens?

2 Corinthians 5:19 – “God was reconciling the world to Himself in Christ”
You’re right that the text states a fact: God was reconciling (καταλλάσσων) the world to Himself. But that verse, as part of Paul’s argument, does not imply universal application without response. The very next verse says, "We implore you on Christ’s behalf: be reconciled to God" (v.20).

Why would Paul urge people to be reconciled if it was already fully and unconditionally accomplished for every individual? Reconciliation may be achieved on God’s side, but it still must be received on ours. The verb katallassō (reconcile) often implies mutuality. Even in human relationships, reconciliation is only complete when both parties agree.
This is not inserting tradition - it’s reading the full context of the passage.

Aionios - Does it mean eternal?
You're right that aionios stems from aion (age), and it can, in some contexts, refer to a limited period. However, in New Testament usage, aionios consistently refers to the unending nature of something when tied to God, life, or judgment.
You mentioned aidios as the “true” word for eternal. But interestingly, the New Testament does use both:

• Jude 6: “…reserved in everlasting [aidios] chains for judgment…”
• Romans 1:20: “His eternal [aidios] power and divine nature…”

But here’s the thing: When Jesus talks about "eternal life" (zoē aionios) and "eternal punishment" (kolasis aionios) in Matthew 25:46, He places them in direct contrast: “And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Your “tall man/tall skyscraper” analogy is creative, but grammar and context matter. If aionios means a limited “age-long” punishment, then the same must apply to the “age-long” life - leading to conditional immortality, which you reject.

In the Gospels and epistles, aionios tied to life always refers to unending fellowship with God. So, if we’re going to reinterpret the punishment as temporary based on the Greek root, we should do the same with the life - and Scripture simply doesn’t allow that.

Did Jesus redeem all of humanity in actuality, or provide redemption in potential?
Yes, Jesus is the Saviour of the world (John 4:42). Yes, He died for all (2 Cor 5:14-15). But the New Testament is full of conditional statements:

• John 3:16 — “Whoever believes…”
• Acts 2:38 — “Repent and be baptized… and you will receive the gift…”
• Romans 10:9 — “If you confess… and believe… you will be saved.”

You cannot escape the conditional nature of salvation in Scripture. The cross is sufficient for all - but not efficient for all unless received by faith. That’s not a tradition invented to control the masses. That’s the consistent teaching of the apostles and of Jesus Himself.

Post-mortem repentance?
You claimed that the idea you must repent in this life is just tradition. But the Bible gives us warning after warning in this life:
“It is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment” (Hebrews 9:27).
Jesus told a parable in Luke 16 where the rich man dies unrepentant and is in torment. There's no hint that he'll have another chance in another age - only that a great chasm is fixed and cannot be crossed (Luke 16:26). It’s not a literal scene, but it’s a clear warning.

There is not one verse in Scripture that explicitly teaches post-mortem repentance. If that were true, it would undermine the urgency of all of Jesus’ warnings.

Final thought
I agree with you that God's will is for none to perish (1 Tim 2:4), and that every knee will bow (Phil 2:10-11). But forced submission is not saving faith. Many will bow in judgment, not in joy (see Isaiah 45, the context of Paul’s quote). God's will is not always done in individual hearts - otherwise, no one would ever sin or reject Him.

In Summary:

• Reconciliation is offered to all, but it must be received (2 Cor 5:20).
• Aionios in context refers to eternal realities - for both life and judgment.
• Salvation is conditional upon faith and repentance, not automatic.
• There is no biblical basis for repentance after death.

I’m not trying to win an argument, but I care deeply that we let Scripture speak plainly, and not force it through a framework that removes responsibility or urgency. Christ's love compels us, as Paul says, to plead with people, “Be reconciled to God.”

I think that we just see God/Jesus through different lenses. What was the purpose and what was the telos of God when he made his creation, that is my starting point once you establish the nature and character and essence of God/Jesus/ Holy Spirit, scripture must be filtered through that lens.
God/Jesus/Holy Spirit are Love, Life and Light and whom there is no darkness. Eternal hell if true is definitely not love, life, or light but would be darkness, the same with annihilation, I can see satan in it but not God.
Humanity was created to have and be in fellowship with God, I do not believe that God did not have a plan to complete his creation, which is still in process, and will bring that plan to fulfillment.
God has revievel in scripture what that plan is, 1 Tim 2:3-6 it is Gods will that none perish and all men to come into the knowledge of him.
John 4:42 Jesus is the Christ, the Savior of the cosmos. A statement of fact not a possibility.
John 12:47 Jesus came to save the cosmos not judge it.
2 Cor 5:19 In Christ God was reconciling the cosmos to himself.
Rom 5:18 Just as the result of one trespass was condemnation of all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men.
Phil 2: 10-11 Every knee will bow of those in heaven, and those on earth, and those under the earth, and every tongue will gladly confess that Jesus is Lord. The Greek word used for confess is Exomologeo which means to acknowledge, openly and joyfully, to celebrate, to give praise without reservation. Its not a forced confession but a true acknowledgement of what God has done, God would not accept a forced confession, that's not how he works.
1 Cor 15: 22 As in Adam all died as in Jesus all will live.
Then Gods telos 1 Cor 15:28 God will be all in all.
These are the bedrock of what my faith is grounded on, these fit with the character and nature if God as revealed in scripture.
Most of the Western Church have " eternal hell" as the bedrock and anything that goes against that is dismissed or explained away, if "eternal hell" does not exist then there whole thing falls apart.
Why are the " eternal hell" verses in the English Bible more true than or take precedence or trump all the scriptures that declare the opposite, why start with "eternal hell" and try to explain the universal salvation away as not in context or whatever why they need to be explained and not start with the universal salvation and explain the "eternal hell" passages into them?
AS far as the Matt 25:46 aionios is an adjective it describes or modifies a noun or pronoun, providing more information about its qualities, characteristics. or attributes . for example in the phrase " the tall building" the adjective " tall" gives specific details about the building height.
So tall has no quantity in itself it only has quantity as it defines something, aionios is like that, when speaking about our life in God its eternal because God is eternal, when speaking about punishment, especially corrective punishment its not eternal but temporary. eternal punishment is imported by the view of God that he would do such a thing, not because scripture says so.
The biblical basis for salvation after the mortal body is dead is implied by the fact that every knee will bow and the other scriptures that talk of universal salvation, so it has to be post mortem , we know that most do not get reconciled in this age, so it must be in the next.

 

[1Tonne]

I think that we just see God/Jesus through different lenses. What was the purpose and what was the telos of God when he made his creation, that is my starting point once you establish the nature and character and essence of God/Jesus/ Holy Spirit, scripture must be filtered through that lens.
God/Jesus/Holy Spirit are Love, Life and Light and whom there is no darkness. Eternal hell if true is definitely not love, life, or light but would be darkness, the same with annihilation, I can see satan in it but not God.
Humanity was created to have and be in fellowship with God, I do not believe that God did not have a plan to complete his creation, which is still in process, and will bring that plan to fulfillment.
God has revievel in scripture what that plan is, 1 Tim 2:3-6 it is Gods will that none perish and all men to come into the knowledge of him.
John 4:42 Jesus is the Christ, the Savior of the cosmos. A statement of fact not a possibility.
John 12:47 Jesus came to save the cosmos not judge it.
2 Cor 5:19 In Christ God was reconciling the cosmos to himself.
Rom 5:18 Just as the result of one trespass was condemnation of all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men.
Phil 2: 10-11 Every knee will bow of those in heaven, and those on earth, and those under the earth, and every tongue will gladly confess that Jesus is Lord. The Greek word used for confess is Exomologeo which means to acknowledge, openly and joyfully, to celebrate, to give praise without reservation. Its not a forced confession but a true acknowledgement of what God has done, God would not accept a forced confession, that's not how he works.
1 Cor 15: 22 As in Adam all died as in Jesus all will live.
Then Gods telos 1 Cor 15:28 God will be all in all.
These are the bedrock of what my faith is grounded on, these fit with the character and nature if God as revealed in scripture.
Most of the Western Church have " eternal hell" as the bedrock and anything that goes against that is dismissed or explained away, if "eternal hell" does not exist then there whole thing falls apart.
Why are the " eternal hell" verses in the English Bible more true than or take precedence or trump all the scriptures that declare the opposite, why start with "eternal hell" and try to explain the universal salvation away as not in context or whatever why they need to be explained and not start with the universal salvation and explain the "eternal hell" passages into them?
AS far as the Matt 25:46 aionios is an adjective it describes or modifies a noun or pronoun, providing more information about its qualities, characteristics. or attributes . for example in the phrase " the tall building" the adjective " tall" gives specific details about the building height.
So tall has no quantity in itself it only has quantity as it defines something, aionios is like that, when speaking about our life in God its eternal because God is eternal, when speaking about punishment, especially corrective punishment its not eternal but temporary. eternal punishment is imported by the view of God that he would do such a thing, not because scripture says so.
The biblical basis for salvation after the mortal body is dead is implied by the fact that every knee will bow and the other scriptures that talk of universal salvation, so it has to be post mortem , we know that most do not get reconciled in this age, so it must be in the next.

I think you’re right. At the heart of this discussion are our starting assumptions about the nature of God and how we read Scripture in light of them.
Like you, I begin with God’s love, mercy, and purpose to bring people into fellowship with Himself. I believe God desires all to be saved, and that Christ’s atonement is sufficient for all. Where we differ is that I don’t believe Scripture teaches that all will ultimately respond, not because God failed, but because He created us with real freedom to love or reject Him.

You said, “Scripture must be filtered through the nature of God.” That sounds good, but here’s the danger: If our understanding of God’s nature overrides Scripture’s direct statements, we end up making the Bible say what we want it to say rather than what it actually says. That’s not submission to God’s Word; that’s bending His Word to fit our preferences.

God is love (1 John 4:8), but He is also holy (1 Peter 1:16), just (Rom 3:26), and will not clear the guilty without atonement (Exodus 34:7). His love does not cancel His justice; it fulfils it in Christ. But it still must be received. So, to receive life, a person must believe and be born again. Without this, there is no life. John 3:3 says, "Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”"

You quoted many “universal” verses. Let’s take a closer look:

• 1 Tim 2:4 – “God desires all to be saved…”
  Yes, He desires it. But even you admit most people don’t come to Him in this age. So His desire is not fulfilled. That doesn’t mean He failed, it means He gave people real agency.
• John 12:47 – “I did not come to judge the world but to save it.”
  Keep reading. Just two verses later (v.48), Jesus says: “There is a judge for the one who rejects Me and does not accept My words…”
• Romans 5:18 – Yes, Christ’s act brought justification that leads to life, but Paul clarifies in the next verse (v.19), “so also through the obedience of the One, the many will be made righteous.” Not all, but the many, those who respond in faith.
• 1 Corinthians 15:22 – “As in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.”
  But verse 23 immediately limits the “all”. It says, “But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when He comes, those who belong to Him.” This “all” is clearly qualified.
• Philippians 2:10-11 – Every knee will bow, every tongue confess, yes. But bowing in judgment is not salvation. In Isaiah 45 (where Paul quotes from), God swears that every knee will bow, but it includes those defeated and judged. Not all joyful, not all reconciled. Some will bow as conquered enemies.

Eternal punishment: Misunderstanding “aionios”?
You said, “Aionios means age-long, not eternal.”
You’re right about its root, but words mean what they mean in context, not just their root. In every New Testament context where aionios is used of life, it clearly means unending (John 3:16, Titus 1:2, etc.). The exact same word is used for punishment in Matthew 25:46.
Your argument is that punishment is temporary because that’s what fits your view of God. But Jesus says it’s aionios punishment, right alongside aionios life. If one ends, the other must too, and that’s not taught anywhere in Scripture.
You also said, “The Western church needs eternal hell to hold its system together.” But that’s simply untrue. The church’s foundation is not eternal punishment; it’s the death and resurrection of Jesus, and the offer of salvation through faith in Him. The teaching of eternal punishment is a warning, not a foundation. It’s Jesus Himself who spoke most often and most clearly about it, - not Augustine, not Dante, not tradition.

What about post-mortem salvation?
You said, “We know most don’t get reconciled in this life, so it must be in the next.”
That’s not a biblical conclusion, it’s speculation based on a hopeful idea, not scriptural teaching.
Jesus said, “Strive to enter through the narrow gate. For many will try to enter and not be able… once the master of the house has risen and shut the door… you will begin to stand outside and knock… and He will answer, ‘I do not know where you come from.’” (Luke 13:24-27)
The idea that “the door shuts” is clear in Scripture.

• Hebrews 9:27 – “It is appointed for man to die once, and then the judgment.”
• 2 Thessalonians 1:9 – The wicked will suffer “everlasting destruction” and be shut out from the presence of the Lord.

Post-mortem salvation is not only unbiblical, it undermines the entire urgency of the Gospel. Why would Jesus or Paul urgently plead with people to repent now if there’s another chance later?

God's character and the fullness of Scripture
You are absolutely right that God’s end goal is for His creation to be restored. But restoration is offered on His terms, not ours.
God's love does not override His justice. His mercy does not eliminate the need for repentance. God has done everything necessary to save us, but He will not force salvation on people who reject Him.
You say, “Eternal hell is not light or love.” But it is not outside of God's nature. It is the tragic result of God honouring human freedom while holding sin accountable. Jesus Himself said, “If your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It’s better to enter life with one eye than to be thrown into hell where the worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.” (Mark 9:47-48)
We do not start with what seems loving to us and reinterpret Jesus. We start with Jesus and let Him redefine love, holiness, and justice.

I respect your desire to uphold God’s loving nature. I agree that the Gospel is for all and that God desires all to be saved. But I can’t follow a theology that denies or softens what Jesus and His apostles clearly said about judgment, accountability, and the need to respond in this life.
Yes, every knee will bow. But for some, it will be the joy of a redeemed child. For others, it will be the sobering recognition of the truth they rejected.
That's not fear-based theology. It's truth-based love.

 

[Clare73]

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No, that sin has been paid for. So a person can not be punished for something that Jesus has already paid for.

No. . .belief in Jesus Christ is the remedy for sin. There is no further payment for rejection of the remedy (payment).

Therefore one remains in their sin, it is not forgiven.

 

[d taylor]

No. . .belief in Jesus Christ is the remedy for sin.

Unbelief in Jesus Christ is rejection of the remedy, therefore one remains in their sin, it is not forgiven.

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Nope that is man/woman's sinful belief on sin.

But i am not going to post the verse that show Jesus death on the cross paid for all sin, unbelievers and believers. Because more than likely i have already posted them on this thread or i know i have on other threads.

It is that people just do not believe those verses.

 

[Clare73]

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Nope that is man/woman's sinful belief on sin.
But i am not going to post the verse that show Jesus death on the cross paid for all sin, unbelievers and believers. Because more than likely i have already posted them on this thread or i know i have on other threads.
It is that people just do not believe those verses.

No possibility that in the context of the whole NT, you may misunderstand those verses?

 

[Jeff Saunders]

No. . .belief in Jesus Christ is the remedy for sin. There is no further payment for rejection of the remedy (payment).

Therefore one remains in their sin, it is not forgiven.

John 1:29 See the lamb of God who is taking away the sin of the cosmos.
This is a statement of what God/Jesus/Holy Spirit did in Jesus, not an offer that is only good if we can muster up enough faith.
Col 3:11 the Anointed is all things and is in all. Notice it does not say in a few or in those who muster up enough faith.

 

[Clare73]

John 1:29 See the lamb of God who is taking away the sin of the cosmos.
This is a statement of what God/Jesus/Holy Spirit did in Jesus, not an offer that is only good if we can muster up enough faith.
Col 3:11 the Anointed is all things and is in all. Notice it does not say in a few or in those who muster up enough faith.

"Cosmos" can be understood in two ways:

1) all mankind (every person),
2) men from all nations.

In the light of the NT, its meaning is 2).

 

[Jeff Saunders]

"Cosmos" can be understood in two ways:

1) all mankind (every person),
2) men from all nations.

In the light of the NT, its meaning is 2).

You need to look up the Greek word cosmos because the definition doesn’t have “ men from all nations “ that is made up by the Calvinist to justify there false doctrine.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

It looks like many people believe Yahovah God is not a just god and sends people to Hell. Hell is a much misunderstood concept, but that is not for this thread. If there is justice in Eternity, then there must be punishment for crimes committed and it follows that obedient people will be blessed for following the commands Yehovah and Yashua have had recorded for us to live by. But God sends no one into the Lake of Fire (Eternal Torment). Yashua will be the Judge, being Perfect and a Just Judge, He will honor your choice and will not violate His Holy Instructions He has left for us to live by or to reject, and by doing so, choose to spend Eternity separated from Heaven and God. It is your choice!

So God is basically FORCED to let people send themselves to burn alive forever and is totally helpless to do anything about it, without that magical "choice" not to do so? Unlikely.

God can change anyone He wants to, in an instant, in the blink of an eye.

He needs the choices of NO ONE, and in fact probably isn't even interested in seeing how "morally acceptable" anyone can "choose" to be, in order to FORCE HIM to reward us via "our choices."

Who is the real God in such proclamations? Obviously it would only be the "chooser" and not GOD who is only FORCED into reacting to the chooser.

It's an upside down personal back patting position that holds no scriptural water

 

[Clare73]

You need to look up the Greek word cosmos because the definition doesn’t have “ men from all nations “ that is made up by the Calvinist to justify there false doctrine.

It's about the way the word is used in the NT, in the light of all the NT.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

It's about the way the word is used in the NT, in the light of all the NT.

Why not use it as its definition and form doctrine around what the word means instead of making up a new definition so that a false doctrine looks good? I have listened to the big name Calvinist twist the meaning of the Greek or and words in that are not in the original just so they can maintain the idea that Jesus did not die for all as scripture plainly states.

 

[Clare73]

Why not use it as its definition and form doctrine around what the word means instead of making up a new definition so that a false doctrine looks good? I have listened to the big name Calvinist twist the meaning of the Greek or and words in that are not in the original just so they can maintain the idea that Jesus did not die for all as scripture plainly states.

Because in the NT, words mean what their NT usage means, in light of the rest of the NT.

"Dead in trespasses and sins" does not mean physical death.

"Born again" does not refer to a physical rebirth. . .etc., etc., etc.

 

[Free2bHeretical4Him!]

You quoted many “universal” verses. Let’s take a closer look:

• 1 Tim 2:4 – “God desires all to be saved…”
  Yes, He desires it. But even you admit most people don’t come to Him in this age. So His desire is not fulfilled. That doesn’t mean He failed, it means He gave people real agency.
• John 12:47 – “I did not come to judge the world but to save it.”
  Keep reading. Just two verses later (v.48), Jesus says: “There is a judge for the one who rejects Me and does not accept My words…”

• Romans 5:18 – Yes, Christ’s act brought justification that leads to life, but Paul clarifies in the next verse (v.19), “so also through the obedience of the One, the many will be made righteous.” Not all, but the many, those who respond in faith.

Above, Paul is using the many and the all interchangeably … for example in verse 15, Paul uses ”many” to refer to all. Did only many die through one man’s (Adam) trespass? If you use it as you do in a restrictive sense then not “all” died in Adam. That presents you with a problem! If you apply it as does Paul in its broad application the many/all are equal one to another.

”But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man’s trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.“
‭‭Romans‬ ‭5‬:‭15‬ ‭ESV‬‬

• 1 Corinthians 15:22 – “As in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.”
  But verse 23 immediately limits the “all”. It says, “But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when He comes, those who belong to Him.” This “all” is clearly qualified.

You qualify the all, much like you did in Roman’s 5, by assigning “those who belong to Christ” as separate from the “all who die in Adam.” Why?
Contextually those who belong to Christ are one and the same as those who have fallen asleep, i.e., the all who die in Adam are those who have fallen asleep who indeed are the same all who are made alive in Christ; thus being all those who belong to Him.

”But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the first-fruits of those who have fallen asleep. For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.“
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15‬:‭20‬-‭23‬ ‭ESV‬‬

• Philippians 2:10-11 – Every knee will bow, every tongue confess, yes. But bowing in judgment is not salvation. In Isaiah 45 (where Paul quotes from), God swears that every knee will bow, but it includes those defeated and judged. Not all joyful, not all reconciled. Some will bow as conquered enemies.

”Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.“
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2‬:‭5‬-‭11‬ ‭ESV‬‬

In the above passage, I see Paul exhorting believers to have the mind of Christ, using sacrifice, humility, and obedience, leading to the exaltation of the name above all names. This exaltation, based upon those qualities so foreign to the mind of men, is the basis for every knee bowing and tongue confessing …

Not fear. Not forced or coerced but rather smitten with God who revealed His true self to all creation, through the person of His Son, who is the express image of His Father. It completely shaders the false mage of God that man posses of God and draws out of him the glory to be given to our blessed Creator. At least, that’s how I interpret this passage.

”“Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other. By myself I have sworn; from my mouth has gone out in righteousness a word that shall not return: ‘To me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear allegiance.’
“Only in the Lord, it shall be said of me, are righteousness and strength; to him shall come and be ashamed all who were incensed against him. In the Lord all the offspring of Israel shall be justified and shall glory.”“
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭45‬:‭22‬-‭25‬ ‭ESV‬‬

In the above passage, I see the command to turn and be saved, to all the ends of the earth. His word, declared in righteousness, will do exactly as He commands it will do. Were you not ashamed of who you were/are, in your opposition to God, when confronted with the One and Only true God? Nothing wrong with, but actually very desirable, to be humbled in the presence of God. This indeed is the very nature of a true confession …

As my brother Jeff has stated, we just view our God through a different lens. Our view, like yours, is vailed and so we struggle to see more clearly. The more we strain to see His essence, which is Love and Purity, the more we are compelled to stir up your spirit to be smitten by that Love and Purity, through which everything He does is born. EVERYTHING … Again, that is just how I interpret the Scriptures.

blessings,

 

[throughfiierytrial]

It looks like many people believe Yahovah God is not a just god and sends people to Hell. Hell is a much misunderstood concept, but that is not for this thread. If there is justice in Eternity, then there must be punishment for crimes committed and it follows that obedient people will be blessed for following the commands Yehovah and Yashua have had recorded for us to live by. But God sends no one into the Lake of Fire (Eternal Torment). Yashua will be the Judge, being Perfect and a Just Judge, He will honor your choice and will not violate His Holy Instructions He has left for us to live by or to reject, and by doing so, choose to spend Eternity separated from Heaven and God. It is your choice!

It is you who does not understand hell and God's justice. While hell is a terrible concept, we are all under the curse of sin. Anyone who does not believe this and does not seek their Savior, Jesus, says Christ died for nothing. That too is a terrible thought.
We are all utterly lost and under condemnation until faith in Jesus which Romans declares will then credit us with the righteousness of Jesus.

As for following the commandments, that is fulfilled in living and sowing to please the Spirit and thereby putting to death the deeds of the flesh. Live in love: love for God and love for your brother. This love is not worldly mushy love. It is strong spiritual love. Love that has the spiritual strength to correct his neighbor and also the deep fellowship live.

 

[th1bill]

Your accusation is uncalled for and pointless.