Why did God choose Israel?

[Jamdoc]

So, first a disclaimer. I do love Israel, out of them came our savior, and because God supports them, I do too.

But God did not choose Israel because they're such wonderful obedient people. In fact, history has shown quite the opposite. Throughout the Old Testament there's the pattern of Israel doubting God, striving against God (in fact, Israel's very name means "one who strives against God" because Jacob wrestled with God in Genesis). God repeatedly chastised them and even cursed them, put them in captivity, released them, they killed His Son, He scattered them, then gathered them back. He repeatedly refers to them as a stiff necked people (Exodus 32-34, Deuteronomy 9, etc), stubborn and rebellious. Yes, Abraham was justified by having faith in God in the first place and that faith was counted for righteousness, and was obedient even to the point of being willing to sacrifice his miraculously born son Isaac.

But that one example, followed by a deliberately stiffnecked, willful, and rebellious people.

Is it possible that God did not choose them because they're such wonderful people but because they represent what can be the worst of us as people, to magnify His grace by showing He can do something wonderful with the worst rebels?

I got on this line of thinking after hearing a Jewish man talk about eschatology in a podcast. Where, if a prophecy from God is good... then it's for sure going to happen, but if it's bad, well then, that's something they have to bargain with God about. I was kinda gobstopped. This idea that God pronounces judgement and a Jew's response is.. strive against God, bargain with Him, try to change His mind.

To me that just seems nonsensical, it's the Lord right? We can't bargain with the Lord and change His mind!

But then he went on to explain. Noah, represents the Gentiles, God said there's judgement, build an ark, and Noah built the ark and did what the Lord said, everyone but 8 people perished. God said He would destroy Sodom.... and Abraham bargained with God. There it was from the beginning of the Hebrews, Abraham striving against God, trying to change God's mind... God actually kinda acquiesced to it, but never found the 10 righteous people in Sodom to prevent its destruction.

Peter also is an example of this. When Jesus explains He'll be killed in Matthew 16, Peter tries to rebuke Jesus. This is just after Peter had confessed the Jesus is the Son of God! So Peter... knowingly tried to rebuke and bargain with God! Peter was not only given grace for that, but even had leadership among the apostles!

It's really rather astounding that God has responded to people trying to bargain with Him with just.. more grace, and even favor.

Of course then there's Jonah who was definitely worse for wear trying to defy God.. but .. Jonah's still a prophet, still cited by Jesus as such.

so what do you think? Why did God choose stiffnecked, rebellious people who try to rebuke Him and bargain with Him?

 

[d taylor]

So, first a disclaimer. I do love Israel, out of them came our savior, and because God supports them, I do too.

But God did not choose Israel because they're such wonderful obedient people. In fact, history has shown quite the opposite. Throughout the Old Testament there's the pattern of Israel doubting God, striving against God (in fact, Israel's very name means "one who strives against God" because Jacob wrestled with God in Genesis). God repeatedly chastised them and even cursed them, put them in captivity, released them, they killed His Son, He scattered them, then gathered them back. He repeatedly refers to them as a stiff necked people (Exodus 32-34, Deuteronomy 9, etc), stubborn and rebellious. Yes, Abraham was justified by having faith in God in the first place and that faith was counted for righteousness, and was obedient even to the point of being willing to sacrifice his miraculously born son Isaac.

But that one example, followed by a deliberately stiffnecked, willful, and rebellious people.

Is it possible that God did not choose them because they're such wonderful people but because they represent what can be the worst of us as people, to magnify His grace by showing He can do something wonderful with the worst rebels?

I got on this line of thinking after hearing a Jewish man talk about eschatology in a podcast. Where, if a prophecy from God is good... then it's for sure going to happen, but if it's bad, well then, that's something they have to bargain with God about. I was kinda gobstopped. This idea that God pronounces judgement and a Jew's response is.. strive against God, bargain with Him, try to change His mind.

To me that just seems nonsensical, it's the Lord right? We can't bargain with the Lord and change His mind!

But then he went on to explain. Noah, represents the Gentiles, God said there's judgement, build an ark, and Noah built the ark and did what the Lord said, everyone but 8 people perished. God said He would destroy Sodom.... and Abraham bargained with God. There it was from the beginning of the Hebrews, Abraham striving against God, trying to change God's mind... God actually kinda acquiesced to it, but never found the 10 righteous people in Sodom to prevent its destruction.

Peter also is an example of this. When Jesus explains He'll be killed in Matthew 16, Peter tries to rebuke Jesus. This is just after Peter had confessed the Jesus is the Son of God! So Peter... knowingly tried to rebuke and bargain with God! Peter was not only given grace for that, but even had leadership among the apostles!

It's really rather astounding that God has responded to people trying to bargain with Him with just.. more grace, and even favor.

Of course then there's Jonah who was definitely worse for wear trying to defy God.. but .. Jonah's still a prophet, still cited by Jesus as such.

so what do you think? Why did God choose stiffnecked, rebellious people who try to rebuke Him and bargain with Him?

-

​

God chose Abraham and from Abraham came the Hebrew people and then eventually Israel. The purpose was so God would be able to come into the world as a human. It first began as God coming into the world through the children of Adam and Eve, but that did not work out. So God decided to start a race of people specific as His people.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Deu 7 6 “For you are a people holy to the Lord your God. The Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for his treasured possession, out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth. 7 It was not because you were more in number than any other people that the Lord set his love on you and chose you, for you were the fewest of all peoples, 8 but it is because the Lord loves you and is keeping the oath that he swore to your fathers, that the Lord has brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the house of slavery, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt. 9 Know therefore that the Lord your God is God, the faithful God who keeps covenant and steadfast love with those who love him and keep his commandments, to a thousand generations, 10 and repays to their face those who hate him, by destroying them. He will not be slack with one who hates him. He will repay him to his face. 11 You shall therefore be careful to do the commandment and the statutes and the rules that I command you today.

God does not love Israel because they are better or worse than others. He simply chose to love them unconditionally.

If you are saved today, it is not because you done something that others did not, it is not because you were more righteouss than others, nor there was anything in you for God to desire, it is simply because of His grace and His Son's work on the cross. It is the same with Israel.

 

[bèlla]

I got on this line of thinking after hearing a Jewish man talk about eschatology in a podcast. Where, if a prophecy from God is good... then it's for sure going to happen, but if it's bad, well then, that's something they have to bargain with God about. I was kinda gobstopped. This idea that God pronounces judgement and a Jew's response is.. strive against God, bargain with Him, try to change His mind.

To me that just seems nonsensical, it's the Lord right? We can't bargain with the Lord and change His mind!

The jewish perception of God differs from the christian’s more significantly than most assume. The snippet you shared is a good example of the differences in interpretation and relationship. For them, the final word isn’t so until He says it. Otherwise, everything is open for negotiation and discussion to some degree. I’ve definitely done the same on many instances. And it isn’t an absence of reverence or fear that compels me. But the strength of our bond and certainty of being heard.

Jacob wrestled with an angel and wouldn’t release him until he was blessed. How many christians would have done the same? The reasons you struggle to be equally bold is because you question Him so much. Not about His directives or something in the word but His nature where you’re concerned. If you haven’t settled that you’re loved, saved, valued, etc. you’ll always be timid. You can’t come boldly to the throne of grace because you don’t trust Him completely. That’s what’s hindering you.

~bella

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

so what do you think? Why did God choose stiffnecked, rebellious people who try to rebuke Him and bargain with Him?

I used to wonder about that subject years ago, and studied the O.T. intensely for decades.

In many ways Israel is representative as the old, carnal, captured by the god of this world man. Gentiles are the ones who "turned" to Christ. The essential 2nd person, also formerly blinded. Now we technically just see our prior condition as a slave of what we did not see or perceive. Now we engage in our own personal battles within, with our unseen adversary.

Israel, as a fleshly nation, remains blinded to this matter. Intentionally so, by God. Mark 4:15, Romans 11:8, 2 Cor. 3:14, both blind to their internal adversary, just as all their predecessors were, and deaf to God's Words regarding this matter and more importantly blinded and deafened to Christ and His Words. And this also intentionally so, by God.

God could change them all, in an instant, if He chose to do so.

But what God might or might not want is always in front of us all, in the exact places that we stand, here and now.

Best bet we can make is for Him to eventually and permanently set aside the adversary(s) of us all.

That is only possible for God to do. And this is my prayer, always

In the "mean"time, we're going to have troubles, all of us. Probably them first and foremost. God didn't really do them any favors. Gathered, judged, scattered. Rinse and repeat? At some point that will end. Promise:

Romans 11:
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

Their receiving will mean life from the dead for us all. And that, only God can bring upon them, because it was God who put them in their positions all the way, start to finale

 

[Maria Billingsley]

So, first a disclaimer. I do love Israel, out of them came our savior, and because God supports them, I do too.

But God did not choose Israel because they're such wonderful obedient people. In fact, history has shown quite the opposite. Throughout the Old Testament there's the pattern of Israel doubting God, striving against God (in fact, Israel's very name means "one who strives against God" because Jacob wrestled with God in Genesis). God repeatedly chastised them and even cursed them, put them in captivity, released them, they killed His Son, He scattered them, then gathered them back. He repeatedly refers to them as a stiff necked people (Exodus 32-34, Deuteronomy 9, etc), stubborn and rebellious. Yes, Abraham was justified by having faith in God in the first place and that faith was counted for righteousness, and was obedient even to the point of being willing to sacrifice his miraculously born son Isaac.

But that one example, followed by a deliberately stiffnecked, willful, and rebellious people.

Is it possible that God did not choose them because they're such wonderful people but because they represent what can be the worst of us as people, to magnify His grace by showing He can do something wonderful with the worst rebels?

I got on this line of thinking after hearing a Jewish man talk about eschatology in a podcast. Where, if a prophecy from God is good... then it's for sure going to happen, but if it's bad, well then, that's something they have to bargain with God about. I was kinda gobstopped. This idea that God pronounces judgement and a Jew's response is.. strive against God, bargain with Him, try to change His mind.

To me that just seems nonsensical, it's the Lord right? We can't bargain with the Lord and change His mind!

But then he went on to explain. Noah, represents the Gentiles, God said there's judgement, build an ark, and Noah built the ark and did what the Lord said, everyone but 8 people perished. God said He would destroy Sodom.... and Abraham bargained with God. There it was from the beginning of the Hebrews, Abraham striving against God, trying to change God's mind... God actually kinda acquiesced to it, but never found the 10 righteous people in Sodom to prevent its destruction.

Peter also is an example of this. When Jesus explains He'll be killed in Matthew 16, Peter tries to rebuke Jesus. This is just after Peter had confessed the Jesus is the Son of God! So Peter... knowingly tried to rebuke and bargain with God! Peter was not only given grace for that, but even had leadership among the apostles!

It's really rather astounding that God has responded to people trying to bargain with Him with just.. more grace, and even favor.

Of course then there's Jonah who was definitely worse for wear trying to defy God.. but .. Jonah's still a prophet, still cited by Jesus as such.

so what do you think? Why did God choose stiffnecked, rebellious people who try to rebuke Him and bargain with Him?

My understanding...

-God chose Noah because he was a faithful servant.
- Then Abraham was chosen, comming from the same lineage, to bring the "Blessing" upon the earth and to be the father of " many nations" . A covenant was made between God and Abraham signified by circumcision. Scripture tells us who: " he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed." The " seed" is Jesus Christ of Nazareth." And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice."

So far, there is no Israel just two men and their mandates given by God, a very narrow focus. They will eventually be known as the " remnant ". The rest goes on with only a remnant from that seed who remain faithful to God from the pool of many who were known as the 12 Tribes of Israel, aka " a stiffnecked people".

Blessings

 

[fhansen]

So, first a disclaimer. I do love Israel, out of them came our savior, and because God supports them, I do too.

But God did not choose Israel because they're such wonderful obedient people. In fact, history has shown quite the opposite. Throughout the Old Testament there's the pattern of Israel doubting God, striving against God (in fact, Israel's very name means "one who strives against God" because Jacob wrestled with God in Genesis). God repeatedly chastised them and even cursed them, put them in captivity, released them, they killed His Son, He scattered them, then gathered them back. He repeatedly refers to them as a stiff necked people (Exodus 32-34, Deuteronomy 9, etc), stubborn and rebellious. Yes, Abraham was justified by having faith in God in the first place and that faith was counted for righteousness, and was obedient even to the point of being willing to sacrifice his miraculously born son Isaac.

But that one example, followed by a deliberately stiffnecked, willful, and rebellious people.

Is it possible that God did not choose them because they're such wonderful people but because they represent what can be the worst of us as people, to magnify His grace by showing He can do something wonderful with the worst rebels?

I got on this line of thinking after hearing a Jewish man talk about eschatology in a podcast. Where, if a prophecy from God is good... then it's for sure going to happen, but if it's bad, well then, that's something they have to bargain with God about. I was kinda gobstopped. This idea that God pronounces judgement and a Jew's response is.. strive against God, bargain with Him, try to change His mind.

To me that just seems nonsensical, it's the Lord right? We can't bargain with the Lord and change His mind!

But then he went on to explain. Noah, represents the Gentiles, God said there's judgement, build an ark, and Noah built the ark and did what the Lord said, everyone but 8 people perished. God said He would destroy Sodom.... and Abraham bargained with God. There it was from the beginning of the Hebrews, Abraham striving against God, trying to change God's mind... God actually kinda acquiesced to it, but never found the 10 righteous people in Sodom to prevent its destruction.

Peter also is an example of this. When Jesus explains He'll be killed in Matthew 16, Peter tries to rebuke Jesus. This is just after Peter had confessed the Jesus is the Son of God! So Peter... knowingly tried to rebuke and bargain with God! Peter was not only given grace for that, but even had leadership among the apostles!

It's really rather astounding that God has responded to people trying to bargain with Him with just.. more grace, and even favor.

Of course then there's Jonah who was definitely worse for wear trying to defy God.. but .. Jonah's still a prophet, still cited by Jesus as such.

so what do you think? Why did God choose stiffnecked, rebellious people who try to rebuke Him and bargain with Him?

I think He chose them because they're smart, conscientious, obstinate survivors who remain loyal to their own overall, and yet...still fraught with the human weakness that we all share. To be the chosen people is a rather dubious honor as they were utilized to demonstrate God's will for man, and fallen man's failure at carrying it out-and ultimately to bring to earth the One who can do so, demonstrating that His will can, in fact, be done while giving us the way to do it as well.

 

[Jamdoc]

The jewish perception of God differs from the christian’s more significantly than most assume. The snippet you shared is a good example of the differences in interpretation and relationship. For them, the final word isn’t so until He says it. Otherwise, everything is open for negotiation and discussion to some degree. I’ve definitely done the same on many instances. And it isn’t an absence of reverence or fear that compels me. But the strength of our bond and certainty of being heard.

Jacob wrestled with an angel and wouldn’t release him until he was blessed. How many christians would have done the same? The reasons you struggle to be equally bold is because you question Him so much. Not about His directives or something in the word but His nature where you’re concerned. If you haven’t settled that you’re loved, saved, valued, etc. you’ll always be timid. You can’t come boldly to the throne of grace because you don’t trust Him completely. That’s what’s hindering you.

~bella

There is some truth to this, painful to admit but it is true. I trust God to fulfill His promises, but I do not think that I personally have value to Him and that He considers me or my happiness anywhere on His priorities. I've had "God doesn't owe you anything" and "It's not about you it's about God!" beat into me quite pointedly To the point of just subconsciously accepting that I don't matter and can't bargain with God because He doesn't owe me anything and I am already getting better than what I deserve. Now God does owe us some things, which is why I trust His specific promises, those things He does owe, because He promised them and it reflects on His character negatively if He changes His mind on any of those.

but that still spirals into a view of "God cares more about Himself than anyone else" that He'd give you good things not because it values you, but because it reflects His own value, "it's about Him". In essence, I can trust those promises because they can be given for a self serving reason. God doesn't have to value me or care if I'm miserable or happy to give those, because it's all about showing How good He is not about me.
Because I see myself without any value and see the new testament being about self denial and self loathing in some cases, it is my default mode to just assume I'm unworthy to even question God's judgement on something. Like with Job, God's response to questioning his affliction was not to actually answer Job, but to just say "who are you to question Me? Do you know better?"

 

[Clare73]

So, first a disclaimer. I do love Israel, out of them came our savior, and because God supports them, I do too.
But God did not choose Israel because they're such wonderful obedient people. In fact, history has shown quite the opposite. Throughout the Old Testament there's the pattern of Israel doubting God, striving against God (in fact, Israel's very name means "one who strives against God" because Jacob wrestled with God in Genesis). God repeatedly chastised them and even cursed them, put them in captivity, released them, they killed His Son, He scattered them, then gathered them back. He repeatedly refers to them as a stiff necked people (Exodus 32-34, Deuteronomy 9, etc), stubborn and rebellious. Yes, Abraham was justified by having faith in God in the first place and that faith was counted for righteousness, and was obedient even to the point of being willing to sacrifice his miraculously born son Isaac.

But that one example, followed by a deliberately stiffnecked, willful, and rebellious people.

Is it possible that God did not choose them because they're such wonderful people but because they represent what can be the worst of us as people, to magnify His grace by showing He can do something wonderful with the worst rebels?

I got on this line of thinking after hearing a Jewish man talk about eschatology in a podcast. Where, if a prophecy from God is good... then it's for sure going to happen, but if it's bad, well then, that's something they have to bargain with God about. I was kinda gobstopped. This idea that God pronounces judgement and a Jew's response is.. strive against God, bargain with Him, try to change His mind.

To me that just seems nonsensical, it's the Lord right? We can't bargain with the Lord and change His mind!

But then he went on to explain. Noah, represents the Gentiles, God said there's judgement, build an ark, and Noah built the ark and did what the Lord said, everyone but 8 people perished. God said He would destroy Sodom.... and Abraham bargained with God. There it was from the beginning of the Hebrews, Abraham striving against God, trying to change God's mind... God actually kinda acquiesced to it, but never found the 10 righteous people in Sodom to prevent its destruction.

Peter also is an example of this. When Jesus explains He'll be killed in Matthew 16, Peter tries to rebuke Jesus. This is just after Peter hadA confessed the Jesus is the Son of God! So Peter... knowingly tried to rebuke and bargain with God! Peter was not only given grace for that, but even had leadership among the apostles!

It's really rather astounding that God has responded to people trying to bargain with Him with just.. more grace, and even favor.
Of course then there's Jonah who was definitely worse for wear trying to defy God.. but .. Jonah's still a prophet, still cited by Jesus as such.
so what do you think? Why did God choose stiffnecked, rebellious people who try to rebuke Him and bargain with Him?

All unregenerate mankind, not just unregenerate Jews, are stiff-necked, rebellious people.

Why did God chose you to be one of his own, rebirth you and give you faith to salvation?

Simply because it was his will to do so, no other reason.

 

[fhansen]

There is some truth to thi

I think all humans sort of default to an image of God as being distant, aloof in His superiority, angry, etc, and "jealous of His prerogatives" as it's been said, and that this is a distorted image actually first conceived at the Fall. Jesus revealed a very different God, but one Whom we must come to know for ourselves-and who is taught by some catechisms, for example, and yet not always understood and taught and modeled so well by the teachers, themselves: Matt 23:3 rings in my head here.

Anyway, I've gradually come to know of a God who-is-love, who would actually place Himself on a cross and suffer an excruciatingly humiliating and painful passion and death on a cross in human flesh to show just how far that love would go for us-in order to prove itself to us, for our good. A God who always had man’s best and highest interest-and uncompromised satisfaction and happiness-at heart while enmity came/comes from man, not Him. Our job here is to come to learn of that God-and value Him above all else as Adam failed to do at the beginning.

“Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.” John 17:3

To truly know Him is to love Him, BTW.

 

[Clare73]

I think all humans sort of default to an image of God as being distant, aloof in His superiority, angry, etc, and "jealous of His prerogatives" as it's been said, and that this is a distorted image actually first conceived at the Fall. Jesus revealed a very different God, but one Whom we must come to know for ourselves-and who is taught by some catechisms, for example, and yet not always understood and taught and modeled so well by the teachers, themselves: Matt 23:3 rings in my head here.
Anyway, I've gradually come to know of a God who-is-love, who would actually place Himself on a cross and suffer an excruciatingly humiliating and painful passion and death on a cross in human flesh to show just how far that love would go for us-in order to prove itself to us, for our good.

Actually, the divine Son's death on the cross was to satisfy God's justice on sin, that he might prepare for himself a bride, the church (both the OT and NT saints), spotless and without wrinkle.

A God who always had man’s best and highest interest-and uncompromised satisfaction and happiness-at heart while enmity came/comes from man, not Him. Our job here is to come to learn of that God-and value Him above all else as Adam failed to do at the beginning.

“Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.” John 17:3

To truly know Him is to love Him, BTW.

 

[fhansen]

Actually, the divine Son's death on the cross was to satisfy God's justice on sin, that he might prepare for himself a bride, the church (both the OT and NT saints), spotless and without wrinkle.

Actually, that was God on the cross-an incomparably significant point-in our coming to know Him.

 

[Clare73]

Actually, that was God on the cross-an incomparably significant point-in our coming to know Him.

That's what "divine" means in "divine Son."

 

[fhansen]

That's what "divine" means in "divine Son."

Then there's no point in objecting here. To come to really understand God, and so come to love Him, is to know His love first. That love is the motivation for His mercy, His sacrifice, His forgiveness-and that which gives worth and meaning to all things making life worth living eternally- and to the extent that we know and value and respond to it we're where He wants us: reconciled with Him-and saved. Either way, God satisfied Himself on the cross.

 

[Clare73]

Then there's no point in objecting here. To come to really understand God, and so come to love Him, is to know His love first. That love is the motivation for His mercy, His sacrifice, His forgiveness-and that which gives worth and meaning to all things making life worth living eternally- and to the extent that we know and value and respond to it we're where He wants us: reconciled with Him-and saved. Either way, God satisfied Himself on the cross.

Nor is there any point in asserting objection where there was none.

 

[fhansen]

Nor is there any point in asserting objection where there was none.

Ok, your comments prefaced by "actually" were intended to add something to the conversation, actually. Thank you.

 

[fhansen]

Like your comments prefaced by "actually" were intended to add to the conversation what was already there; i.e, "divine."

Ok, so, then, there was actually no reason for your post #11. Or you could've just actually agreed, with something like, "I actually agree."

 

[trophy33]

I guess it had to be someone. If it were any other nation, one could always ask "why them".

They were in the right place (Mesopotamia) at the right time (the Messianic expectations matched the Roman empire and its reach to Europe, Africa and Asia).

 

[Clare73]

Ok, your comments prefaced by "actually" were intended to add something to the conversation, actually. Thank you.

Yes, to include the satisfaction of God's justice in redemption.

 

[jamiec]

So, first a disclaimer. I do love Israel, out of them came our savior, and because God supports them, I do too.

But God did not choose Israel because they're such wonderful obedient people. In fact, history has shown quite the opposite. Throughout the Old Testament there's the pattern of Israel doubting God, striving against God (in fact, Israel's very name means "one who strives against God" because Jacob wrestled with God in Genesis). God repeatedly chastised them and even cursed them, put them in captivity, released them, they killed His Son, He scattered them, then gathered them back. He repeatedly refers to them as a stiff necked people (Exodus 32-34, Deuteronomy 9, etc), stubborn and rebellious. Yes, Abraham was justified by having faith in God in the first place and that faith was counted for righteousness, and was obedient even to the point of being willing to sacrifice his miraculously born son Isaac.

But that one example, followed by a deliberately stiffnecked, willful, and rebellious people.

Is it possible that God did not choose them because they're such wonderful people but because they represent what can be the worst of us as people, to magnify His grace by showing He can do something wonderful with the worst rebels?

I got on this line of thinking after hearing a Jewish man talk about eschatology in a podcast. Where, if a prophecy from God is good... then it's for sure going to happen, but if it's bad, well then, that's something they have to bargain with God about. I was kinda gobstopped. This idea that God pronounces judgement and a Jew's response is.. strive against God, bargain with Him, try to change His mind.

To me that just seems nonsensical, it's the Lord right? We can't bargain with the Lord and change His mind!

But then he went on to explain. Noah, represents the Gentiles, God said there's judgement, build an ark, and Noah built the ark and did what the Lord said, everyone but 8 people perished. God said He would destroy Sodom.... and Abraham bargained with God. There it was from the beginning of the Hebrews, Abraham striving against God, trying to change God's mind... God actually kinda acquiesced to it, but never found the 10 righteous people in Sodom to prevent its destruction.

Peter also is an example of this. When Jesus explains He'll be killed in Matthew 16, Peter tries to rebuke Jesus. This is just after Peter had confessed the Jesus is the Son of God! So Peter... knowingly tried to rebuke and bargain with God! Peter was not only given grace for that, but even had leadership among the apostles!

It's really rather astounding that God has responded to people trying to bargain with Him with just.. more grace, and even favor.

Of course then there's Jonah who was definitely worse for wear trying to defy God.. but .. Jonah's still a prophet, still cited by Jesus as such.

so what do you think? Why did God choose stiffnecked, rebellious people who try to rebuke Him and bargain with Him?

IMHO, God did not choose Israel. Any more than God chose the UK, the USA, Poland, China, Germany, or any other country. I think the talk in the OT about Israel being chosen, is national propagandist mythology, no different from any other; and that some or all of it is a reaction to the trauma of the Babylonian victory over Judah in 586 BC. After that victory, the Jews, or what was left of them, had to decide what to do with themselves - and part of the OT is taken up with answering that question.

Israel then was not special - nor is it special now. There is no reason to believe in any covenant with Abraham - that is just part of Israel/Judah’s foundation-myth, concocted long after the alleged events, had they occurred, would have taken place. Abraham, Isaac & Jacob are, ISTM, no less mythical than Aeneas, his son Iulus AKA Ascanius, and their descendants Romulus & Remus.

So Israel should be treated just like any other country, because that is what it is. And the idea of Israel having a right to the land based on a covenant with God, needs to be forgotten, or treated as a fantasy; because to rely on ancient Jewish mythology as a guide to modern politics, is as crazy as it would be to use the Aeneid as a guide to modern Italian or Roman politics.

And in case anyone is wondering, I see nothing unChristian in saying that much of the OT is Jewish mythology.

As for the question, I have three of my own:

1. Why does God choose anyone ?

and

2. Does God choose anyone or any nation ?

or,

3. Is the idea of being chosen by God simply a theological interpretation of events as being an act of Divine choosing ?