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why do people think ot covenant are still active?

trophy33

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I think people are misunderstanding the role of God's law- its actually not to save us, it actually to help us see our true condition
How does resting on the 7th day just because according to Genesis God created the world in 6 days helps us to see "our true condition"?

It is obviously nothing related to morality.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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How does resting on the 7th day just because according to Genesis God created the world in 6 days helps us to see "our true condition"?

It is obviously nothing related to morality.
Well, the Sabbath is much more than that. The Sabbath I believe is a test of our loyalty, because in Scripture we are told whoever we obey is who we serve. Rom 6:16

The 4th commandment is not just the commandment for the Sabbath, it is a commandment for all days.

In the 4th commandment God said

Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy Exo 20:8, the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God. Exo 20:10 So its not just the Sabbath for man, its God's Sabbath and the holy day of the Lord, thus saith the Lord Isa 58:13 not the man-made one assigned to God He said was for work and labors. Exo 20:9

God commanded us to do work and labors the 6 other days Exo 20:9 and to keep the Sabbath day holy and cease from our works and labors Exo 20:10 God said the Sabbath started at Creation Exo 20:11 so it was always God's perfect plan for mankind, but the devil hijacked this world and counterfeited everything God made to be holy and good.

No one can survive a relationship without special time together. God from the very beginning set aside holy time to rest with man so He blessed and sanctified the seventh day Sabbath Gen 2:1-3 Exo 20:11 made for man Mark 2:27 so we can set aside all of our works and labors and spend time resting in Him on His holy Sabbath day so He can bless Isa 56:2 and sanctify us Eze 20:12 because man can't sanctify a day, nor can they sanctify themselves Isa 66:17 we need God for everything.

God in His own Words said not keeping the Sabbath is doing evil Neh 13:17 Isa 56:2 and its really profaning God Eze 22:26 because its rejecting this special bonding time God made for man from the very beginning and instead man is seeking to find their own way to bless and sanctify themselves instead of receiving God's and being connected to Christ. John 15:4,5,10 1 John 2:6

Why the Sabbath is a sign between God and man

Eze 20:20 hallow My Sabbaths, and they will be a sign between Me and you, that you may know that I am the Lord your God.’

God placed the Sabbath commandment in the same unit as only worshipping Him and not murdering our brethren. Breaking one commandment we break them all James 2:11-12

We were never told to take the popular route or follow the popular traditions of man. Jesus warned us plainly about both of these Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13 Mat 7:13-14
 
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trophy33

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Well, the Sabbath is much more than that. The Sabbath I believe is a test of our loyalty, because in Scripture we are told whoever we obey is who we serve. Rom 6:16

The 4th commandment is not just the commandment for the Sabbath, it is a commandment for all days.

In the 4th commandment God said

Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy Exo 20:8, the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God. Exo 20:10 So its not just the Sabbath for man, its God's Sabbath and the holy day of the Lord, thus saith the Lord Isa 58:13 not the man-made one assigned to God He said was for work and labors. Exo 20:9

God commanded us to do work and labors the 6 other days Exo 20:9 and to keep the Sabbath day holy and cease from our works and labors Exo 20:10 God said the Sabbath started at Creation Exo 20:11 so it was always God's perfect plan for mankind.

No one can survive a relationship without special time together. God from the very beginning set aside holy time to rest with man so He blessed and sanctified the seventh day Sabbath made for man Mark 2:27 so we can set aside all of our works and labors and spend time resting in Him on His holy Sabbath day so He can bless Isa 56:2 and sanctify us Eze 20:12 because man can't sanctify a day, nor can they sanctify themselves Isa 66:17 we need God for everything.

God in His own Words said not keeping the Sabbath is doing evil Neh 13:17 Isa 56:2 and its really profaning God Eze 22:26 because its rejecting this special bonding time God made for man from the very beginning and instead man is seeking to find their own way to bless and sanctify themselves instead of being connected to Christ.

Why the Sabbath is a sign between God and man

Eze 20:20 hallow My Sabbaths, and they will be a sign between Me and you, that you may know that I am the Lord your God.’

God placed the Sabbath commandment in the same unit as only worshipping Him and not murdering our brethren. Breaking one commandment we break them all James 2:11-12

We were never told to take the popular route or follow the popular traditions of man. Jesus warned us plainly about both of these Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13 Mat 7:13-14
If the number was 5 or 11, what would change, morally?
 
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SabbathBlessings

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If the number was 5 or 11, what would change, morally?
Not sure what you mean, I personally am not into what ifs, I think we need to trust God at His Word and have faith He knows whats best for us, even if it doesn't always make sense.

Its late my time, I need to go, but wish you well.
 
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trophy33

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Not sure what you mean, I personally am not into what ifs, I think we need to trust God at His Word and have faith He knows whats best for us, even if it doesn't always make sense.

Its late my time, I need to go, but wish you well.
If the Genesis story was that God created in 4 days and rested on the 5th or that God created in 10 days and rested on the 11th, what would morally change?

Would suddenly each 5th day show us our condition instead of the 7th day?
 
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Gregory Thompson

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My apologies if I misunderstood, I was replying to this



I am not aware that God's law is not in effect as it is not something I have found in my Bible, even in the NT breaking God's law is still sin Mat 7:7 Mat 5:19--30 Mat 15:3-14 and keeping God's law is still love to Him and neighbor 1 John 5:2-3 Rom 13:9 John 14:15 and how we are called to be saints Rev 14:12 and reconciled Rev 22:14

If I misunderstood, again my apologies and I would be happy for you to explain further. :)
But that's not what I was talking about.

I was talking about the curses pronounced at the end of the Nicean creed are coinciding with the curses pronounced near the end of Deuteronomy.

Now when people look at verses about being "under the law" they forget that the transitional period during the 1st century is over.

Any such curses observed today is related to the anathemas of nicea, since the old covenant curse has been made of no effect.

I understand some people really really really want to bring it (you step out of line, and God shall punish thou post haste) back, but it's gone. The phenomena that replaced it is just a look-a-like and relates to the gospel, not the law.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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How does resting on the 7th day just because according to Genesis God created the world in 6 days helps us to see "our true condition"?

It is obviously nothing related to morality.
Rest is more related to Grace.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Rest is more related to Grace.
Do you happen to have a verse that says this, where grace gives us the right not to keep one of God's commandments?

Even Paul said this about grace

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?

Sin is the transgression of God's law 1 John 3:4 James 2:11-12
 
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SabbathBlessings

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But that's not what I was talking about.

I was talking about the curses pronounced at the end of the Nicean creed are coinciding with the curses pronounced near the end of Deuteronomy.

Now when people look at verses about being "under the law" they forget that the transitional period during the 1st century is over.

Any such curses observed today is related to the anathemas of nicea, since the old covenant curse has been made of no effect.

I understand some people really really really want to bring it (you step out of line, and God shall punish thou post haste) back, but it's gone. The phenomena that replaced it is just a look-a-like and relates to the gospel, not the law.
Thanks for explaining what you meant.

I personally disagree that God is and has ever been one to zap people out of existence if one steps out of line, without lots of opportunity to turn from their evil ways . The God I read in my Bible is one of longsuffering, that has given us everything including His own life because He loves us so much. Sin is a result of being made in the image of the devil 1 John 3:8 God is trying to re-create us in His image, part of what the Sabbath is about Eze 20:12 but sadly just like those who have came before us, we have rejected God's law and go seek our own righteousness and law, and instead seek man-made traditions not giving God the ability to recreate us in His likeness because He won't force Himself on us. While the wages of sin is death Rom 6:23 God gives us another option, but not everyone wants to come to the light (Jesus, Truth) because they enjoy their deeds (sin) John 3:19-21
 
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Jerry N.

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It seems to me that God’s word, including the Law, is eternal. Our relationship to the Law has changed, but the Law has not. (see: Romans 3:31). Does that mean that saved Jews must keep the Law and Gentiles do not, even after our resurrection? I won’t Bible verse bomb here, but many ordinances seem to be declared eternal.
 
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ARBITER01

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It seems to me that God’s word, including the Law, is eternal. Our relationship to the Law has changed, but the Law has not. (see: Romans 3:31). Does that mean that saved Jews must keep the Law and Gentiles do not, even after our resurrection? I won’t Bible verse bomb here, but many ordinances seem to be declared eternal.

We can't live by assumptions.

Just like the guy said at the end of that video, "two covenants are not in force at the same time." Jesus died on the cross to bring in a new covenant in His name, and to do away with the old that was under Moses,...

14 In calling it new, hath HE made the former obsolete, and that which is obsolete and growing old is nigh unto extinction.

What people have tried to do on this site and others is incorporate the old into the new, a sort of re-newed, re-written covenant, but GOD had already said that His new covenant would not be according to the old.

It seems we have some people on this site that have been deceived by some church teachings, and they refuse to go to GOD and ask Him to correct themselves on it.
 
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Jerry N.

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We can't live by assumptions.

Just like the guy said at the end of that video, "two covenants are not in force at the same time." Jesus died on the cross to bring in a new covenant in His name, and to do away with the old that was under Moses,...

14 In calling it new, hath HE made the former obsolete, and that which is obsolete and growing old is nigh unto extinction.

What people have tried to do on this site and others is incorporate the old into the new, a sort of re-newed, re-written covenant, but GOD had already said that His new covenant would not be according to the old.

It seems we have some people on this site that have been deceived by some church teachings, and they refuse to go to GOD and ask Him to correct themselves on it.
I have studied the ideas you have expressed, but I can't get around the idea that God said certain things are eternal. In Exodus 31:16-17, it is written, "The Israelites must keep the Sabbath, celebrating it as a perpetual covenant for the generations to come. It is a sign between Me and the Israelites forever; for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, but on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed”. (underline added.)
 
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Maria Billingsley

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Hebrews 8:13
very simple
its not


New International Version
By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

New Living Translation
When God speaks of a “new” covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear.

English Standard Version
In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Berean Standard Bible
By speaking of a new covenant, He has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

Berean Literal Bible
In saying, "new," He has made obsolete the first; and that which is growing old and aging is near vanishing.

King James Bible
In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

New King James Version
In that He says, “ A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

New American Standard Bible
When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is about to disappear.
I would simply like to know which , out of the 613 Mitzvot, need to be kept in order to keep His commandments. I have never seen this list or has anyone on this forum provided it. Is it just all about keeping the Sabbath? We all know the moral laws because as Christians we keep those instinctively but what about the rest?
Thanks for anyone who would like to share! And thanks for posting this!!
Blessings
 
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Jerry N.

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I would simply like to know which , out of the 613 Mitzvot, need to be kept in order to keep His commandments. I have never seen this list or has anyone on this forum provided it. Is it just all about keeping the Sabbath? We all know the moral laws because as Christians we keep those instinctively but what about the rest?
Thanks for anyone who would like to share! And thanks for posting this!!
Blessings
That is a difficult proposal. The Law has at least three functions: First, to convict us of sin; second, to set apart the Israelites as His special people; third, many of them are very good ideas for our best interests. Examples: Even governments have made it illegal to move the property markers of your neighbor. It seems that God didn’t want His people to eat shellfish, and they are indeed dangerous to eat in many places. The Ten Commandments, on the other hand, are universal. However, keeping the commandments for a Christian is to please God and live a life He wants us to live, and not out of fear. The Temple is gone and certain statutes are only for within the country of Israel, so these do not apply for those outside of Israel. I am a Messianic Christian, but I keep the Law (Torah) as best I can, because I find it helps me stay closer to God. Because I’m saved by grace and the work of Christ, it is more of a choice than obligation. However, if a person promises that they will never eat pork, for example, then they are obliged to keep their promise. The obligation is in the promise not the Law. I don’t encourage others to do what I do, because it is mostly a choice of free will.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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That is a difficult proposal. The Law has at least three functions: First, to convict us of sin; second, to set apart the Israelites as His special people; third, many of them are very good ideas for our best interests. Examples: Even governments have made it illegal to move the property markers of your neighbor. It seems that God didn’t want His people to eat shellfish, and they are indeed dangerous to eat in many places. The Ten Commandments, on the other hand, are universal. However, keeping the commandments for a Christian is to please God and live a life He wants us to live, and not out of fear. The Temple is gone and certain statutes are only for within the country of Israel, so these do not apply for those outside of Israel. I am a Messianic Christian, but I keep the Law (Torah) as best I can, because I find it helps me stay closer to God. Because I’m saved by grace and the work of Christ, it is more of a choice than obligation. However, if a person promises that they will never eat pork, for example, then they are obliged to keep their promise. The obligation is in the promise not the Law. I don’t encourage others to do what I do, because it is mostly a choice of free will.
As you know, " God is not the author of confusion ". I appreciate your response however, claiming that it is a "difficult proposal" certainly fits into the category of confusion for me.
Thanks for sharing!
Be blessed.
 
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ARBITER01

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I have studied the ideas you have expressed, but I can't get around the idea that God said certain things are eternal. In Exodus 31:16-17, it is written, "The Israelites must keep the Sabbath, celebrating it as a perpetual covenant for the generations to come. It is a sign between Me and the Israelites forever; for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, but on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed”. (underline added.)

I think you are getting half the truth on this,....


9 But in finding fault with them, HE saith: "Behold, the days art coming, saith The LORD, when I wilt make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.

10 Not according to the covenant that I made with their forefathers, in the day of My taking hold of their hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, for they remained not in that covenant of Mine, and I disregarded them, saith The LORD.


If it was eternal, then Jesus would have died for nothing.
 
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ARBITER01

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I would simply like to know which , out of the 613 Mitzvot, need to be kept in order to keep His commandments. I have never seen this list or has anyone on this forum provided it. Is it just all about keeping the Sabbath? We all know the moral laws because as Christians we keep those instinctively but what about the rest?
Thanks for anyone who would like to share! And thanks for posting this!!
Blessings

There is no list, now will there be.

The sabbath-rest described in Hebrews is a future event,....


8 ¶ For if Joshua had given them rest, HE would not have spoken of another day after these things.

9 There remaineth therefore, a Sabbath-rest unto the people of GOD.

10 For the-one entering into HIS rest, hath also himself ceased from his works, even as GOD didst from HIS own.


I don't know of anyone down here upon earth that has completely ceased from his/her own works like GOD has.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Do you happen to have a verse that says this, where grace gives us the right not to keep one of God's commandments?

Even Paul said this about grace

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?

Sin is the transgression of God's law 1 John 3:4 James 2:11-12
I do have a verse that God rested so we would. So it's related to grace in that way.
 
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Clare73

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There is no list, now will there be.
The sabbath-rest described in Hebrews is a future event,....
8 ¶ For if Joshua had given them rest, HE would not have spoken of another day after these things.
9 There remaineth therefore, a Sabbath-rest unto the people of GOD.
10 For the-one entering into HIS rest, hath also himself ceased from his works, even as GOD didst from HIS own.
I don't know of anyone down here upon earth that has completely ceased from his/her own works like GOD has.
In context, this is speaking of our spiritual works for salvation. . .
 
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