I believe that ALL who ever lived will be in God’s Kingdom

[bob121]

The Greek word for confess is Exomologeo - to acknowledge, openly and joyfully, to celebrate, to give praise to without reservations. the very definition of the word makes a forced confession not possible.

While exomologeo does indeed carry the meaning of open acknowledgment, celebration, and joyful praise, its application in the context of final judgment—particularly for the unsaved—reflects a different emotional reality. In such cases, the praise is not directed inwardly or with delight, but outwardly toward God's justice and glory. Their confession is not 'forced' as in something deceitful or extracted under duress, but rather compelled by the overwhelming and inescapable reality of Christ’s Lordship and the righteousness of God's judgment. The terror they feel is the appropriate response to that truth as it leads to their condemnation. Nevertheless, even this compelled acknowledgment fulfills the purpose of the verse: it glorifies God the Father.

• Exomologeo will be fulfilled by everyone, including the condemned.
• Their confession is compelled by undeniable truth, not joyful agreement.
• Even in judgment, God's justice and glory are magnified, fulfilling the purpose of Philippians 2:11.

 

[Beth77]

We must first define what we mean by 'wise' when the Bible describes the woman as such. The word 'wise' never stands by itself; context is crucial in every situation, especially when interpreting words and events in the Bible. In this instance, the woman's speech was 'wise' in its strategic brilliance and rhetorical effectiveness for a particular, manipulative purpose. However, using her statement (2 Samuel 14:14) as a general theological principle for universal salvation is an 'out of context' usage. It divorces the verse from its deceptive origin, its specific narrative function—to bring Absalom home—and the fact that it's part of a human's persuasive argument, not a direct divine pronouncement on eternal destiny. I hope that helps. If you have more to say please provide 'contextual' support to your words.

The woman told the truth, which you refute. So be it.

 

[Beth77]

Nevertheless, even this compelled acknowledgment fulfills the purpose of the verse: it glorifies God the Father.

So you think that God is like Kim Jung-un in that he forces people to worship him under compulsion and that God feels glorified in this manner.

Why do you believe that Jesus is way too incompetent to be able to persuade all beings to follow him?

 

[JulieB67]

So you agree that God is incapable of getting what he wants, right?

He wants all to come to repentance, (change of heart and mind) that's why he's so long suffering. He "wants" people to love him of their own free will. How hard is that to understand?

I want to ask you some honest questions because it seems as if you're leaving out so much of the Word in order to form your beliefs.

If all God has to do is thrown someone into the LOF (made for the devil and his angels) and bring someone out brand new, what does that say about Christ's ultimate sacrifice? You are implying the LOF saves when Christ can't get the job done. One of your arguments is Christ is Savior to the entire world and that means everyone will be ultimately saved. But according to your comments about the LOF it's apparent you don't believe that for everyone. You're suggesting if Christ can't get it done, the LOF will do it.

Why is there a book of life?

If Christ claims someone can be blotted out of the book of "life" are you suggesting that's untrue? Because that would imply that you don't believe him.

What power does the Second Death hold over anyone if you don't believe it is "death" but a new life? Christ claims it has power and yet apparently you don't.

Why do you believe that Jesus is way too incompetent to be able to persuade all beings to follow him?

And yet many still follow Satan in the end. He's coming up soon to do some persuading of his own just as he did at the overthrow.


Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Eternal life is through Jesus Christ, not the LOF which was made for the devil and his angels.

Romans 8:1 "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

Revelation 20:15 "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

Psalms 37:20 "But the wicked shall perish, And the enemies of the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs: They shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away."

So you think that God is like Kim Jung-un in that he forces people to worship him under compulsion and that God feels glorified in this manner.

How would you feel if most of the world has just worshipped Satan/False Messiah instead of the true Christ? It's totally going to be to the glory of our Father when they acknowledge the real one. And rightly so.

Philippians 2:11 "And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."


In the end, God will get exactly what he wants. An eternity to spend with those who love him and vice versa.

 

[JulieB67]

his punishment is always for correction unto reconciliation.

In someone's lifetime, yes. But not with the LOF which is the second death -the death of the soul.

The greek word for destroy is apollumi

Yes, I know the Greek word.

Is God too weak to get the job done

Apparently you don't believe Christ can get the job done. You believe for some it will be the LOF that ultimately does the saving.

. Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord.

When he returns they will have no choice they will bow to "the glory of God" Not from their glory.

The Greek word for confess is Exomologeo - to acknowledge, openly and joyfully, to celebrate, to give praise to without reservations. the very definition of the word makes a forced confession not possible.

Exomologeo -to acknowledge or (by impl of assent) agree fully, -confess, profess, promise.

Again, they will have no choice when they see him first hand.

Many will be in shock at that point after having worshipped Satan as their Messiah. But when the true Christ returns they will have no choice but to acknowledge him. And apparently by your beliefs we can just throw faith out the window at that point. Because saving faith has nothing to do with it when you have the real Savior right in front of you. According to you many will be celebrating after having just worshipped the false one when they see the real one. When they bible tells us they will be wanting to hide from him at that point but won't be able to.

Is 46:11 Indeed, I have spoken, Indeed I shall bring it to pass! I have formed a plan indeed, I shall do it. Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord.

Why are you adding that last part in this verse? It's seems deceptive to do so.

Isaiah 46:11 "Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth My counsel for a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass: I have purposed it, I will also do it."

There is a verse in Isaiah 45 but it pretty much means the same thing as Philippians. Every knee will bow and swear. But again, they will have no choice at that point.

You say " I believe our Father is very long suffering not willing anyone to perish"

The bible states that fact

II Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance

Is God too weak to get the job done or is mans will stronger than his? 2 Pet 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promises as some count slackness, but is long suffering towards us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance

Are you really not understanding that last part? He did get the job done. We have to be the ones that come to repentance. Not him. He did his part. We have to do the rest or coming to repentance is pointless. And Christ dying is pointless if you believe the LOF ultimately saves everyone.

You apparently like others believe if Christ can't do the saving, the LOF fire will do the trick. That's not what the bible states.

You have to add that

Just as you add and take away from the Word to pump up your doctrine?

All who go into the LOF will be refined, it will not be pleasant, but there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, all those who go get the second death, death of the soul, all that they have done, built and accumulated will be gone, they will live

Unbiblical. Not one word in the entire Bible states anyone comes out of the Lake of Fire. It has never been stated as a refinery.

And again, you are taking away Christ's ultimate sacrifice and the reason God is so long suffering -for all to come to repentance. You are taking away the "book of life". The fact that Christ states someone can be blotted out of it. The power of the Second Death and the list goes on....

We have to take the bible as a whole. And you're leaving so much out of it with your beliefs.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Got a verse attesting to that ?

Mark 4:15 for which ALL your positions have no accounting.

In addition, thousands of examples of this fact shown in the N.T. particularly by Jesus engaging them in people.

The fact that people miss the obvious is what I would call a miracle in plain sight, unseen.

As God has gracefully lifted that blindness from man, nobody needs to remain blinded anymore.
"By His stripes we were healed". (Isa 53:5)

Ah, yes, back to your "I am sinless" position. You do understand that is a position entirely derived from various cult fringe claims?

Sinners saved by the Grace of God in Christ is, pardon the pun, spot on.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

No. Peter was a satan, an adversary to the will of God.

Oh yeah, I think we clarified that succinctly as your position.

So, the reasonable follow on question is this:

Is there a "real Satan" that is not a person? And we can include "devils" in that same question.

Curious to see how you manage to mix up people with/as Satan and devils.

Then we can get to the more juicy questions for such positions

 

[BNR32FAN]

Why would Jesus' suffering be necessary if the end result for those who reject Christ's gift of salvation were mere annihilation? If sin's ultimate consequence is simply non-existence, it diminishes the infinite penalty that Christ bore. His agonizing death, separation from the Father, and suffering of God's wrath would seem disproportionate if all it achieved for the lost was oblivion. The depth and magnitude of Christ's suffering only make full sense as an atonement for a penalty that is eternal and conscious, saving believers from an infinitely greater fate than simply ceasing to be. Which passages tell of annihilation?

I completely disagree.

 

[BNR32FAN]

So you agree that God is incapable of getting what he wants, right?

One thing the scriptures have demonstrated over and over and over and over is that man has been a constant disappointment to God.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The Bible describes that woman as "wise".

It also says that she was lying. Why do you ignore this fact? Samuel was quoting what she said, she was not a prophet, she was not quoting scripture. You never addressed Matthew 7:21

 

[BNR32FAN]

I understand that to take scripture as written in the original language undermines your tradition, but the hoops you musts jump through are crazy.
All in Adam is all people but all in Jesus is really all kinds of people? The sentence is a direct parallel the same all in Adam is the same all in Jesus. That's the point to the whole thing, you are distorting the the whole point, with your tradition of men.

All in Christ does not refer to everyone in the world, it is used in contrast to the rest of the world who are not in Christ.

 

[timothyu]

We can't fairly compare humans to inanimate objects.

The analogy of how it is treated works

 

[Jipsah]

Anyone believing half-truths, isn't really a believer.

Hey, nobody's really a believer except me and thee (and I ain't ll that red hot sure about thee). (It's an old joke.)

 

[Jipsah]

We can't fairly compare humans to inanimate objects.

God wouldn't torture an inanimate object.

 

[Jipsah]

To make it work from a damnationist standpoint, God would have to hate all wrenches by default, because they'll all cause you to bang your knuckles .

 

[Jeff Saunders]

All in Christ does not refer to everyone in the world, it is used in contrast to the rest of the world who are not in Christ.

Look at the Greek word used, pas is the word and it means everyone no exceptions, the whole. This is why Calvinism is falling apart, the internet now allows average people to look up the original words used and the definitions and people are seeing that they have been sold a bad bill of goods.

 

[YeshuaFan]

I believe these scriptures are clear about that. Am I misunderstanding?

1 John 4:14 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

1 Timothy 4:10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.

Lamentations 3:31 For the Lord will not cast off forever

Romans 5:18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.

Romans 11:32 For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.

John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL people to myself.”

Revelation 21:5 And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”

2 Corinthians 5:19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.

John 6:51
I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”

2 Corinthians 5:14-15 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; 15 and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

Colossians 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.

John 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

Luke 3:6 and all flesh shall see the salvation of God

Philippians 2:10-11 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Romans 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

2 Samuel 14:14 We must all die; we are like water spilled on the ground, which cannot be gathered up again. But God will not take away life, and he devises means so that the banished one will not remain an outcast.

Ephesians 1:10 As a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in Him, things in heaven and things on earth.

John 1:29 The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!"

1 Corinthians 15:22-28
22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. 24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For “God[c] has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,” it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. 28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.

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Universalism is heresy

 

[Hoping2]

Mark 4:15 for which ALL your positions have no accounting.
In addition, thousands of examples of this fact shown in the N.T. particularly by Jesus engaging them in people.
The fact that people miss the obvious is what I would call a miracle in plain sight, unseen.

It would be foolish to forget that the devil doesn't stop trying to un-convert even the holy people.

Ah, yes, back to your "I am sinless" position. You do understand that is a position entirely derived from various cult fringe claims?

To label the faithful as a cult, would just continue the original sentiments of the original enemies of "the way"..

Sinners saved by the Grace of God in Christ is, pardon the pun, spot on.

The disobedient will have no excuse for their actions, on the day of judgement.

 

[Hoping2]

The analogy of how it is treated works

Your analogy must show that the wrench had a choice in its actions..
We have the choice of whether or not to serve God.
Our final judgement will be based on the choices we make here and now.

 

[Hoping2]

Hey, nobody's really a believer except me and thee (and I ain't ll that red hot sure about thee). (It's an old joke.)

If you believe the sinful won't get the punishment Jesus warned them about, you will continue to doubt yourself.