What's the use of faith alone?

[Clare73]

If you have faith and it is alone what is the use of it?

You don't know?

Security. . .

 

[timothyu]

Security. . .

As in the servant who buried the money to keep it safe?

 

[fhansen]

Define "faith". "Faith" in what?
What Paul calls "faith" and what James calls "faith" are two different things.
Paul obvioulsy refers to faith in Jesus' atoning sacrifice on the cross as payment for our sins.
James, in chapter 2, verse 19, is referring to faith in God's existence: "You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.” That faith of course falls short of saving faith.

As for Martin Luther wanting to bin the book of James, maybe he should've done so as it is erroneously taken by some to contradict Paul.

Both Paul and James believed the same, which is why Paul could use Abraham as our model of faith. Peter as well:
"Through Him you believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and glorified Him, and so your faith and hope are in God."

It's actually all about faith in the true God whom God the Son came to reveal. This faith is the realization within us of the reconciliation of the rift between man and God that resulted from the Fall.

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

If you have faith and it is alone what is the use of it?

It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.(Jn 6:45)​

If someone is taught by God to go to Jesus for salvation, and they go to Him for salvation as a result, does their faith stand alone?

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

Here's another question...

For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.”​

​

How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach unless they are sent? (Ro 10:13–15)​

Let's say God sends out preachers to preach the gospel. The gospel reaches a lost sinner. That lost sinner believes on Jesus and calls on Him for salvation. Then Jesus saves him.

Does that lost sinner's faith stand alone?

 

[Clare73]

Both Paul and James believed the same, which is why Paul could use Abraham as our model of faith. Peter as well:
"Through Him you believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and glorified Him, and so your faith and hope are in God."

It's actually all about faith in the true God whom God the Son came to reveal. This faith is the realization within us of the reconciliation of the rift between man and God that resulted from the Fall.

Who is "Him"?

It's actually all about saving faith in "Him," Jesus Christ.

"It's all about faith in the true God" for Orthodox Jews, but they are not saved.

 

[fhansen]

Who is "Him"?

"your faith and hope are in God."

 

[Clare73]

"your faith and hope are in God."

"Through Him you believe in God,

Who is Him"?

My faith is likewise in "Him" whose atoning work remits my sin (Ro 1:17, 3:22, 4:13, 10:6, Gal 2:16, Php 3:9, Heb 11:7).

I hope your faith is in Him also, without which there is no remission of your sin. . .

 

[fhansen]

My faith is also in the person and atoning work of Jesus Christ for the remission of my sin (Ro 1:17, 3:22, 4:13, 10:6, Gal 2:16, Php 3:9, Heb 11:7).

I hope yours is also. . .

Most of those quotes are about faith in God in general, and even when they're referring specifically to Jesus, they’re still referring to faith in God-because Jesus is God. And that’s the point.

The whole purpose of Christ’s coming was to get man to return to God-to reconcile and restore that vital relationship that man spurned in Eden, resulting in his death, that vital relationship that man needs in order to live. So faith is broader than just believing in some certain acid-test truths regarding Jesus. Jesus is the express image of God. Everything Jesus said and did reflects and reveals the nature and will of God. So to see Jesus is to see God, to know Jesus is to know God, to believe in, hope in, and love Jesus is to believe in, hope in, and love God. And that relationship: to know, believe in, hope in, and, most importantly, to love God is the essence and basis of man’s righteousness. But faith is the doorway, the basis of that life-giving relationship. So;

“Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.” John 17:3

 

[Clare73]

Most of those quotes are about faith in God in general, and even when they're referring specifically to Jesus, they’re still referring to faith in God-because Jesus is God. And that’s the point.
The whole purpose of Christ’s coming was to get man to return to God

The whole purpose of Jesus' coming was to satisfy God's justice for the sin of those who believe in and trust on Jesus and his atoning work for the remission of their sin, thereby restoring them to fellowship with God.

 

[timothyu]

question. What was the atoning work? Teaching His only gospel, that being the Kingdom of God? Following no ones will but that of the Father? ??

 

[Clare73]

question. What was the atoning work? Teaching His only gospel, that being the Kingdom of God? Following no ones will but that of the Father? ??

You don't know that the cross was Jesus' atoning work/sacrifice to satisfy God's justice for our sin?

That's NT 101.

 

[fhansen]

The whole purpose of Jesus' coming was to satisfy God's justice for the sin of those who believe in and trust on Jesus and his atoning work for the remission of their sin, thereby restoring them to fellowship with God.

Again, "The whole purpose of Christ’s coming was to get man to return to God".

That is salvation, communion with God being the very reason you were created. The price Jesus paid in order to reveal and reconcile that God to you was an excruciatingly humiliating and painful death on the cross in human flesh at the hands of His own creation-to demonstrate the extent He'd go for you, to demonstrate a love that knows no bounds. That's part of the revelation of who God is. And so that, itself, is grace. We're drawn to that cross as it draws us to that love, the love for the One whom we've pierced. 'We love Him because He first loved us', not because we're suddenly born again or regenerated all at once but because we're drawn to a love that loves despite our sin and hatred, and we begin to turn, and be healed by it.

The love wrought within you by Him is the essence of your justice/righteouness. The first step to that love is faith as faith is the first step back to Him, the Vine, the vital Source. God's been patiently working in and with man on cultivating that love within us since Eden. He wants us to value it as He does and then His universe, His creation, will finally be right. If Adam had loved God in Eden, or if he'd been capable of loving then, obedience would've flowed naturally, of its own accord. Instead, time, revelation, grace, and experience in a relatively godless world rife with both good and evil were all necessary so that we might become sickend and jaded by the evil we know, by the sin we commit and are victimized by- and so turn away from that evil and to this infinitely great Being when He comes to show Himself and call us by His grace. Believers are like prodigals running to the Father from the pigsty. That's how it works.

 

[timothyu]

A

You don't know that the cross was Jesus' atoning work/sacrifice to satisfy God's justice for our sin?

A lot of people died as a result of promoting God did they not? John for instance. There has to be more to it than that.,

 

[The Truth John 1.1]

Quote from you "alone/sola fide, and not by anything that 'we' do"

It's a common misunderstanding when it's taught there's nothing we can do to be saved .
It's a common teaching that faith is not considered a work and as a result of that teaching there nothing a person can do to be saved.

N

 

[The Truth John 1.1]

Quote from you "alone/sola fide, and not by anything that 'we' do"

It's a common misunderstanding when it's taught there's nothing we can do to be saved .
It's a common teaching that faith is not considered a work and as a result of that teaching there nothing a person can do to be saved.

Now let's consider the following passage John 8:39.

Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

Now I,llask you a question. What were the two most notable works that Abraham did.

The answer is he demonstrated obedience when he offered up Isaac.

And he believed God when he told him he would have a son in his old age.

So we have Jesus giving a definition that faith and obedience are works something you do.

Of which without we cannot be saved.

So the response I would normally get is all but brother Ephesians 2:9 says not by works lest any man should boast.

When this passes is often used in rebuttal they fail to understand the true meaning of the passage.

Number one faith is a work defined by Jesus himself in John 8:39 so for the apostle to write not of works he's not talking about the work of faith instead he's talking about the works of the law circumcision and rituals.

We have to remember that in Ephesus was a synagogue and in that synagogue they proselytes and converted Gentiles to the Moses's law and to be accepted by the Jews the Greeks had to follow Moses's law they had to be circumcised following The requirements of the law of Moses called the works of the law in Romans 3:27 .

Of which works the Jews often boasted as in Romans 2.17.

So Paul writing to the Ephesians knowing full well that in Ephesus there were Greeks that were proselytes of Moses's law to the synagogue in Ephesus that he had to remind them as well as other uncircumcised Greeks that the salvation through Christ Jesus does not come by the works of the law circumcism ceremonies rituals and sacrifice of which the Jews boasted of.

And we read further in Ephesians 2 after 2/9 where Paul reminds them that Jesus has broken down the middle wall of partition that is the partition which was the law of Moses which separated the Gentiles from the Jews being circumcision ceremonies and rituals.

Then he goes on to say having blotted out the handwriting of ordinances which is against us which is contrary to us taking it out of the way nailing to the cross.

That was the ceremonies the rituals circumcision the works of the law by which the Jews were made righteous in God's eyes up until Christ.

So with this information you are now informed that in Ephesians 2:9 not by works is referring to the works of the law of Moses of which the Greeks were exposed to before
The teachings of a gospel.

Bottom line Jesus defined faith as something you do.

Therefore preachers need to stop teaching that there's nothing you could do to earn your salvation.

 

[John G.]

preachers need to stop teaching that there's nothing you could do to earn your salvation.

In Galatians it is made clear that if you add (requirements) to the cross, you subtract from the cross (its power, God's grace)
We are filthy sinners and our best works are as filthy rags before God.
That's why we need a Saviour.

 

[Clare73]

Again, "The whole purpose of Christ’s coming was to get man to return to God".

See post #50.

 

[fhansen]

See post #50.

See post #53

 

[timothyu]

and our best works are as filthy rags before God.

Yet He still tells us to love each other as self, serve both him and each other. Gets filthier when we don't.