Why the Sabbath is a moral commandment

[SabbathBlessings]

I really like this video, they break down 5 reasons why the Sabbath is a moral commandment .

After watching the video let me know if you have any comments. This is not a video of just commentary, it is packed with Scripture.

 

[BobRyan]

"moral" implies conformity to established sanctioned codes or accepted notions of right and wrong."

1 John 3:4 "Sin IS transgression of God's Law" -- therefore by definition the LAW sets the standard for right-vs-wrong and so violation of that standard is not "moral"

The TEN Commandments are included in the moral law of God written on the heart under the New Covenant of Jer 31:31-34

That includes the Ex 20:11 Gen 2:2-3 Sabbath day -- "The Holy day of the Lord" IS 58:13.

So then no wonder that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from one Sabbath to another - all MANKIND will come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

For the "Sabbath was made for mankind - not mankind made for the Sabbath" Mark 2:27. In Gen 1-2 we see the making of BOTH.

Matt 4 "mankind shall not live by bread alone but by every Word the proceeds from the mouth of God"

Is it any wonder that Deut 4 and 5 say that God spoke "the TEN Commandments" at Sinai. And make the case that only the TEN were spoken directly to the people "and He added no more" -- so it was the TEN kept inside the ark of the covenant - the rest was outside the ark.

So while it is true that all the Word of God matters and is holy - the TEN were given a special position from the very start.

No wonder so many Christian denominations affirm THE TEN as included in the moral law of God.

[*]The Baptist Confession of Faith section 19
[*]The Westminster Confession of Faith section 19
[*]Voddie Baucham
[*]C.H. Spurgeon
[*]D.L. Moody
[*]Dies Domini by Pope John Paul II
[*]D. James Kennedy
[*]R.C. Sproul

N

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The TEN Commandments are included in the moral law of God written on the heart under the New Covenant of Jer 31:31-34

That includes the Ex 20:11 Gen 2:2-3 Sabbath day -- "The Holy day of the Lord" IS 58:13.

So then no wonder that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from one Sabbath to another - all MANKIND will come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

For the "Sabbath was made for mankind - not mankind made for the Sabbath" Mark 2:27. In Gen 1-2 we see the making of BOTH.

I like how they point out the 4th commandment is not just a command for the Sabbath but for all seven days.

Six days we are commanded to work Exo 20:9
But the seventh-day we are to rest from our works and labors and keep the Sabbath day holy Exo 20:8-10 just as God did from Creation Gen 2:1-3 Exo 20:11

 

[Bob S]

Taken from "Grace Communion International" Is the Sabbath a Moral Law or a Ceremonial Law? - GCI Archive​

​

What about the Sabbath?​

Some people claim that the weekly Sabbath is a moral law, and therefore required today. They often claim this simply because they assume that the Ten Commandments are all moral laws.

But let us look at the evidence: God himself does not keep the Sabbath as a six-day/one-day cycle of work and rest. He did not before creation, and he does not now. Angels do not keep the weekly Sabbath, either. In the new heavens and the new earth, when there is no nighttime, no one will have to change their behavior according to days of the week. Everyone will be in God’s eternal rest all the time.

Although the seventh-day Sabbath has a basis in what God did once, the six-one cycle does not reflect what God is eternally. Although the weekly Sabbath rest looked forward to the eternal rest we have in salvation, the six-one cycle of work and rest is not an eternal one. The seventh-day Sabbath is not a universal or eternal law.

Instead, the Sabbath has characteristics of a ceremonial law. Although people might figure out that regular rest is good for us, it is not likely that they would figure exactly one day out of seven. This detail had to be specially revealed. Of course, if God says that we have to keep this
detail today, then we do. That’s the same for any law, ceremonial or otherwise. The point here is that the details of the Sabbath command are like ceremonial laws, in that they have to be specially revealed.

The Sabbath law says that behavior that is perfectly acceptable one day is forbidden the next, merely because it is a different day of the week. But God’s morality does not change with the days of the week. If it is moral one day, it is moral on all others. God has the right to require different things on different days, but this would be a ceremonial law, not a law about what is moral all the time.

Paul tells us that the gentiles, even without the written law, had a law written on their hearts (Romans 2:14-15). They could know by nature that honesty was proper. But in contrast, they could not know from nature that they should anoint the right thumb instead of the elbow. They could not know by nature that they were to avoid work every seventh day.

God did not require the Gentiles to obey laws they did not have. They were required to obey the law written on their hearts, but they were not required to obey the ritual laws, for such laws have to be specially revealed, and God revealed them only to Israel, and they applied only to Israel.

God did not expect Gentiles to celebrate the Israelites’ exodus, or to have harvest festivals on the exact dates that Israel did. He did not require them to have Levitical priests, nor to make the animal sacrifices he told Israel to offer. Nor did he command them to keep the Sabbath. They could if they wanted to (Isaiah 56:4), but he did not require it.

Author: Michael Morrison

I just picked part of the study on the aspects of the Sabbath. To do a full review of the subject go to:

Is the Sabbath a Moral Law or a Ceremonial Law? - GCI Archive

Visit gci.org and browse Grace Communion International's extensive library of articles on God, the Bible, faith, and the Christian Life.

archive.gci.org

 

[Freth]

mor·al
/ˈmôr(ə)l/

adjective

1. concerned with the principles of right and wrong behavior and the goodness or badness of human character.
   Similar: virtuous, good, righteous, upright, upstanding, high-minded (2 Timothy 3:1-7), right-minded, principled, proper, honorable, honest, just, noble, incorruptible, scrupulous, respectable, decent, irreproachable, truthful, law-abiding, clean-living, chaste, pure, blameless, sinless
   Opposite: immoral, bad, dishonorable
2. holding or manifesting high principles for proper conduct.

Conclusion: The ten commandments are the moral law of God. This includes the fourth commandment that God commanded us to remember to keep holy. The idea that one of the Ten doesn't apply to us today flies in the face of the book of Acts that shows that the apostles kept the Sabbath with the Gentiles, and the book of Revelation that calls for commandment keeping,

Jesus Testifies to the Churches​

Revelation 22:14-15 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.​

​

A Warning​

Revelation 22:18-19 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.​

 

[BobRyan]

Taken from my post above

"moral" implies conformity to established sanctioned codes or accepted notions of right and wrong."

1 John 3:4 "Sin IS transgression of God's Law" -- therefore by definition the LAW sets the standard for right-vs-wrong and so violation of that standard is not "moral"

The TEN Commandments are included in the moral law of God written on the heart under the New Covenant of Jer 31:31-34

That includes the Ex 20:11 Gen 2:2-3 Sabbath day -- "The Holy day of the Lord" IS 58:13.

So then no wonder that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from one Sabbath to another - all MANKIND will come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

For the "Sabbath was made for mankind - not mankind made for the Sabbath" Mark 2:27. In Gen 1-2 we see the making of BOTH.

Matt 4 "mankind shall not live by bread alone but by every Word the proceeds from the mouth of God"

Is it any wonder that Deut 4 and 5 say that God spoke "the TEN Commandments" at Sinai. And make the case that only the TEN were spoken directly to the people "and He added no more" -- so it was the TEN kept inside the ark of the covenant - the rest was outside the ark.

So while it is true that all the Word of God matters and is holy - the TEN were given a special position from the very start.

No wonder so many Christian denominations affirm THE TEN as included in the moral law of God.

[*]The Baptist Confession of Faith section 19
[*]The Westminster Confession of Faith section 19
[*]Voddie Baucham
[*]C.H. Spurgeon
[*]D.L. Moody
[*]Dies Domini by Pope John Paul II
[*]D. James Kennedy
[*]R.C. Sproul

N

By definition - "moral" implies conformity to established sanctioned codes or accepted notions of right and wrong."

Some people claim that the weekly Sabbath is a moral law, and therefore required today. They often claim this simply because they assume that the Ten Commandments are all moral laws.​

Turns out - that is because of the definition of "moral"

But let us look at the evidence: God himself does not keep the Sabbath

In the Gospels the enemies of Christ often made that accusation against Christ.

They were wrong.

And so Christ adds this in Matt 5:
17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Although the seventh-day Sabbath has a basis in what God did once

And in fact is the sole basis for the commandment according to Ex 20

8 “Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.... 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.

, the six-one cycle does not reflect what God is eternally.

God is God - man is made by God and so also is what God calls "My Holy day" made by God.

Moral - by definition involves obeying God.

Although the weekly Sabbath rest looked forward to the eternal rest we have in salvation

Marriage in Gen 2 is also used as a type of symbol of relationship between Christ and the Church in the NT.

Even so - Marriage still exists - and it is still right for Christians to marry and it is still sin to commit adultery.

 

[Bob S]

mor·al
/ˈmôr(ə)l/

adjective

1. concerned with the principles of right and wrong behavior and the goodness or badness of human character.
   Similar: virtuous, good, righteous, upright, upstanding, high-minded (2 Timothy 3:1-7), right-minded, principled, proper, honorable, honest, just, noble, incorruptible, scrupulous, respectable, decent, irreproachable, truthful, law-abiding, clean-living, chaste, pure, blameless, sinless
   Opposite: immoral, bad, dishonorable
2. holding or manifesting high principles for proper conduct.

Conclusion: The ten commandments are the moral law of God. This includes the fourth commandment that God commanded us to remember to keep holy. The idea that one of the Ten doesn't apply to us today flies in the face of the book of Acts that shows that the apostles kept the Sabbath with the Gentiles, and the book of Revelation that calls for commandment keeping,

Where do you come up with the US stuff? The Ten Commandments were given only to Israel. Gentile nations have never been under the ten. I don't care what you believe the Gentiles were doing. Scripture does not indicate that Gentiles were "keeping" the Sabbath. Paul the Apostle to the Gentiles never taught them to keep a day. If you would only read 2 Corinthians 3:6-11, you would find out that even the Jews are not under the Ten Commandments. The KJV says that the Ten were transitory and have been eliminated.

Jesus Testifies to the Churches​

Revelation 22:14-15 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.​

Because the word commandments is mentioned several times in the New Testament, you falsely assume it refers to the Ten. The only reference in the New Testament to the Ten is called the ministry of death

​

A Warning​

Revelation 22:18-19 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.​

When you refer to the word commandments as being the Ten Commandments, you should take the warning advice scripture seriously.

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

Some people claim that the weekly Sabbath is a moral law, and therefore required today.
...
Of course, if God says that we have to keep this detail today, then we do. That’s the same for any law, ceremonial or otherwise.

I think you are right on both these points. Defining keeping the Sabbath as a moral law is primarily to prove it is required today. Yet, it does not need to be defined as a moral law for this purpose if God commands us to keep it.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I think you are right on both these points. Defining keeping the Sabbath as a moral law is primarily to prove it is required today. Yet, it does not need to be defined as a moral law for this purpose if God commands us to keep it.

Where did Jesus tell us not to keep the Sabbath commandment? Can you provide one Scripture that says so? He told His faithful to pray for 40 years their flight at the destruction of Jerusalem not be in winter or the Sabbath day Mat 24:20 so Jesus in His own Words taught the Sabbath would be kept for at least 40 years after His death and told us not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments quoting directly from the Ten Commandments as one would be least in heaven and according to the next verse means not there. Mat 5:19-30 Jesus kept the Sabbath Luke 4:16 and said if we abide in His we would keep the commandments John 15:10 following in His example 1 John 2:6 1 Peter 2:21-23 so its the same ones. The same ones He said He did not come to destroy, not a jot or tittle, because no one is above the authority of God's own Testimony Exo 31:18 Deut 4:13

Can you tell me where doing evil and profaning God is not a moral issue.

I am assuming you didn't watch the video.

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

Where did Jesus tell us not to keep the Sabbath commandment? Provide one Scripture that says so? He told His faithful to pray for 40 years their flight at the destruction of Jerusalem not be in winter or the Sabbath day Mat 24:20 so Jesus in His own Words taught the Sabbath would be kept for at least 40 years after His death and told us not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments quoting directly from the Ten Commandments as one would be least in heaven and according to the next verse means not there. Mat 5:19-30 Jesus kept the Sabbath Luke 4:16 and said if we abide in His we would keep the commandments John 15:10 following in His example 1 John 2:6 1 Peter 2:21-23 so its the same ones. The same ones He said He did not come to destroy, not a jot or tittle, because no one is above the authority of God's own Testimony Exo 31:18 Deut 4:13

Can you tell me where doing evil and profaning God is not a moral issue.

I am assuming you didn't watch the video.

No, I didn't watch the video.

And no, I can't show you where doing evil and profaning God is a godly thing to do. How do you come up with that accusation from what I said?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

No, I didn't watch the video.

And no, I can't show you where doing evil and profaning God is a godly thing to do. How do you come up with that accusation from what I said?

I am glad you agree that doing evil and profaning God is ungodly which would be immoral which is the opposite of moral.

I can show you from Scripture what God thinks when one doesn't keep the Sabbath. These are His own Words, me not adding anything to it. It’s harsh, but God’s Word can be a two edged sword.


Eze 20:13 13 Yet the house of Israel rebelled against Me in the wilderness; they did not walk in My statutes; they despised My judgments, ‘which, if a man does, he shall live by them’; and they greatly defiled My Sabbaths. Then I said I would pour out My fury on them in the wilderness, to consume them.''

Ezekiel 20:16 because they rejected My ordinances, and as for My statutes, they did not walk in them; they even profaned My sabbaths, for their heart continually went after their idols.

Eze 22:26 Her priests have [a]violated My law and profaned My holy things; they have not distinguished between the holy and unholy, nor have they made known the difference between the unclean and the clean; and they have hidden their eyes from My Sabbaths, so that I am profaned among them.

Neh 13:17
Then I reprimanded the nobles of Judah and said to them, “What is this evil thing you are doing, by profaning the sabbath day?


God blesses us when we keep the Sabbath and say it is just and doing righteousness, which is the foundation of God's Throne Psa 89:14

We see this right in the Prophetic Book of Isaiah


Isa 56:1 Thus says the Lord:

“Keep justice, and do righteousness,
For My salvation is about to come,
And My righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”

6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—
7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain,
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
Will be accepted on My altar;
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”

Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man and the word He used was mankind in Greek Adam in Hebrew, the Sabbath is meant to bless and sanctify us Eze 20:12 because man can't sanctify themselves, we need God Isa 66:17

In the Sabbath commandment God links the Sabbath to Creation Exo 20:11 and it is a memorial to Creation to Remember everything God made for us without us and so we never forget where we came from and who created us and He is still the same God of Judgement Rev 14:7 because God changes not.

 

[DamianWarS]

I really like this video, they break down 5 reasons why the Sabbath is a moral commandment .

After watching the video let me know if you have any comments. This is not a video of just commentary, it is packed with Scripture.

The reasons are anecdotal and subjective. by the same logic, anything that is broadly beneficial can be defined as moral. The "problem" presented at the beginning is still true. anything that is right is always right and anything that is wrong is always wrong and they are not time-bound.

The response that the sabbath is for the whole week, divided into work/rest doesn't answer this. The action of rest or the action of work are still time-bound; nothing is fixed with the time bound by identifying it in a single commandment. Obviously, if x/y are opposites, then a requirement of doing x means discontinuing y. This issue also is not about if work is good or if rest is good. they are both good in their right context. it is about a moratorium of work and a specific time-bound practice of ritual rest.

Moral aspects of commandments can always come from obedience, regardless of what the action is. Circumcision can also be called a moral action because it too is a commandment from God but the moral action is not cutting the flesh, it is the obedience of cutting the flesh.

Conflating the 4th commandment with other commandment is not a critical way of approaching it. Stealing from God, or coveting or idolizing work, murdering the sabbath, or whatever other laws you are conflating with it are abstract ways of applying law. in these abstract spaces, all laws can be a violation of all laws. For example, when I murder I steal a life, why I lie I covet myself, when I indulge in too much tv I make it an idol of it. where there are aspects this is true this is not the point of the 10. The commandments have practical boundaries so they can be clearly understood of what to do, or not to do. Sure you can mix them all up to describe the same thing but that doesn't make an action innately moral or immoral; it makes it abstract.

Rev 1:10 is not a reference to the Sabbath it is a reference to the first day of the week, the day Christ resurrected. it is only modern times that have forced other interpretations on this, but historically, the church has always held that this day is Sunday and continues to this day calling it that. Even today in Greek the common/offical name for the day is still called the Lord's day. Matthew 24:20 also is not a reference to an absolute universal day, this is not the point of the account. the context is the urgency of the day. Historically, the AD 70 event had a lot of key days, the last of which is the destruction of the temple. other key events like the Siege of Jerusalem which was on April 14, 70 AD was actually on the Sabbath. The Romans used the sabbath for tactical advantage. I see Mat 24 as having layer meanings with most prophecy, the immediate, such as the Siege of Jerusalem, is true as is a more distant prophecy that hasn't yet happened. the day of week it happens on or whatever we call the day of the week has nothing to do with the event itself.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Rev 1:10 is not a reference to the Sabbath it is a reference to the first day of the week, the day Christ resurrected.

Can you prove this by Scripture? I see your words here, which is not the same. There is no day one is the Lords day anywhere in the entire Bible. Where does is say the Lords Day is now the day Christ resurrected? Did Jesus teach this? Did He tell anyone because He rose on the first day, after resting on the Sabbath in His tomb, we are no longer to keep the Sabbath commandment, and now keep Sunday? He never told His close followers who were still keeping the Sabbath according to the commandment ,Luke 23:56 after His death and they were one of the first people He spoke with after He was risen. Seems like He would have told them, or His disciples, or anyone, but making a whole doctrine out of silence, is not a good idea, especially when it goes against what God commanded in His own Words, written by Him personally. Exo 20:8-11 Sunday is the Lords day is man-made doctrine and our words are not Scripture, we are told adding to Scripture, while we have free will, comes with some consequences . Pro 30:5-6

God in His own Words called the Sabbath, My holy day, the holy day of the Lord, meaning there is no other Isa 58:13 and He changes not,. Jesus said He is Lord of the Sabbath, not Lord of the first day. He commanded all other days are working days Exo 20:9, only the seventh day Sabbath we are to keep holy, thus saith the Lord, written and spoken by God Exo 20:8 Exo 31:18 Sad, millions if not billions of people keep Sunday a day God never blessed or sanctified a common day over the day God blessed, sanctified for holy use from the beginning of time Gen 2:1-3 Exo 20:11. Man can't sanctify a day, nor can they sanctify themselves Isa 66:17 only God can and God connects both the sanctification of a day and sanctification of man with the Sabbath, thus saith the Lord Gen 2:1-3 Exo 20:11 Eze 20:12 God did warn us the whole world would be deceived, which means the majority. But there is a remnant who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony and faith of Jesus. Rev 12:17 Rev 14:12

Mat 7:13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 [c]Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

 

[BobRyan]

"moral" by definition

mor·al
/ˈmôr(ə)l/

adjective

1. concerned with the principles of right and wrong behavior and the goodness or badness of human character.
   Similar: virtuous, good, righteous, upright, upstanding, high-minded (2 Timothy 3:1-7), right-minded, principled, proper, honorable, honest, just, noble, incorruptible, scrupulous, respectable, decent, irreproachable, truthful, law-abiding, clean-living, chaste, pure, blameless, sinless
   Opposite: immoral, bad, dishonorable
2. holding or manifesting high principles for proper conduct.

Conclusion: The ten commandments are the moral law of God. This includes the fourth commandment that God commanded us to remember to keep holy. The idea that one of the Ten doesn't apply to us today flies in the face of the book of Acts that shows that the apostles kept the Sabbath with the Gentiles, and the book of Revelation that calls for commandment keeping,

Jesus Testifies to the Churches​

Revelation 22:14-15 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.​

​

A Warning​

Revelation 22:18-19 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.​

by the same logic, anything that is broadly beneficial can be defined as moral.

that which defines proper God-approved standard of conduct. See the definition of "moral" even in broad terms - God's own standard for proper conduct qualifies.

The "problem" presented at the beginning is still true. anything that is right is always right and anything that is wrong is always wrong

and your point?

and they are not time-bound.

except when the moral principle is itself a worship concept regarding time.

Just as it is "not moral" to deprive you or your children of time to sleep. Parents that do that in the extreme can be charged with the crime of child abuse, endangerment.

even though "sleep" involves the ordering of time for rest.

You are "reaching" to find a way to set aside what almost all denominations on planet Earth regard as God's moral law - the TEN.

The response that the sabbath is for the whole week, divided into work/rest doesn't answer this. The action of rest or the action of work are still time-bound

you are the one inventing the rule that if it deals with time it cannot be moral. That is a story of your own making with only you as the source.
Are we simply not supposed to notice?

Rev 1:10 is not a reference to the Sabbath it is a reference to the first day of the week,

no text says that.

By contrast we actually DO have both OT and NT texts for Sabbath as "The Holy Day of the Lord" Is 58:13
with Christ as "LORD of the Sabbath" Mark 2:28

simply making something up as a suggestion as you appear to do with Rev 1:10 is not at all on the same footing as Scripture ITSELF saying "Sabbath of the LORD" , "Holy day of the LORD", "Lord of the Sabbath".

That part is not even a tiny bit difficult to see.

 

[DamianWarS]

Can you prove this by Scripture? I see your words here, which is not the same. There is no day one is the Lords day anywhere in the entire Bible. Where does is say the Lords Day is now the day Christ resurrected? Did Jesus teach this? Did He tell anyone because He rose on the first day, after resting on the Sabbath in His tomb, we are no longer to keep the Sabbath commandment, and now keep Sunday? He never told His close followers who were still keeping the Sabbath according to the commandment ,Luke 23:56 after His death and they were one of the first people He spoke with after He was risen. Seems like He would have told them, or His disciples, or anyone, but making a whole doctrine out of silence, is not a good idea, especially when it goes against what God commanded in His own Words, written by Him personally. Exo 20:8-11 Sunday is the Lords day is man-made doctrine and our words are not Scripture, we are told adding to Scripture, while we have free will, comes with some consequences . Pro 30:5-6

No, because the expression is used once in scripture. Christ calls himself "Lord of the Sabbath" (Mat 12:8) but this is a different expression and has a meaning that means authority over the Sabbath. "The Lord's day" could mean this as well, but its nuance is that it is in celebration. Revelation is the last book of the bible, traditionally given the date of 95 or 96 AD. This use of the expression "the Lord's day", it being the only mention of it in scripture and the last written book in the bible, can show us it is from a more developed early church than it is of it's first few years. The didachae uses it, which has a date of 50-70 AD, giving instructions on gathering on the Lord's day. There is no instruction to rest and since it is an teaching piece of the early church, it would seem odd not to include the need for rest in its instruction too if the early church both valued rest on the Sabbath as well as called the Sabbath the Lord's day. The didachae wouldn't suggest either of these, rest of calling the Sabbath the Lord's day. The early church record, which is unbroken since scripture, has always maintained Sunday is the Lord's day. For example Ignatius of Antioch who was John's disciple, emphasized that Christians should observe the Lord's day over the Sabbath.

It is well know the church eventually called Sunday the Sabbath which continues to still be a practice, I'm not trying to claim this, that the sabbath moved to Sunday, but rather The Lord's day is rightly Sunday. it is very difficult to show that the Lord's day actually points to the Sabbath (proper) over pointing to a Sunday event. I would say the former has no support at all, biblical or otherwise. You can wag your finger at history and ignore it but in doing so you have no biblical evidence to show support for what day of the week the Lord's day too on top of the no historical evidence. You may not like that Sunday is called the Lord's day, but looking at it critically and given the historical record, that's what the day is refer to and there is no reason why we should challenge this.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

No, because the expression is used once in scripture. Christ calls himself "Lord of the Sabbath" (Mat 12:8) but this is a different expression and has a meaning that means authority over the Sabbath. "The Lord's day" could mean this as well, but its nuance is that it is in celebration. Revelation is the last book of the bible, traditionally given the date of 95 or 96 AD. This use of the expression "the Lord's day", it being the only mention of it in scripture and the last written book in the bible, can show us it is from a more developed early church than it is of it's first few years. The didachae uses it, which has a date of 50-70 AD, giving instructions on gathering on the Lord's day. There is no instruction to rest and since it is an teaching piece of the early church, it would seem odd not to include the need for rest in its instruction too if the early church both valued rest on the Sabbath as well as called the Sabbath the Lord's day. The didachae wouldn't suggest either of these, rest of calling the Sabbath the Lord's day. The early church record, which is unbroken since scripture, has always maintained Sunday is the Lord's day. For example Ignatius of Antioch who was John's disciple, emphasized that Christians should observe the Lord's day over the Sabbath.

It is well know the church eventually called Sunday the Sabbath which continues to still be a practice, I'm not trying to claim this, that the sabbath moved to Sunday, but rather The Lord's day is rightly Sunday. it is very difficult to show that the Lord's day actually points to the Sabbath (proper) over pointing to a Sunday event. I would say the former has no support at all, biblical or otherwise. You can wag your finger at history and ignore it but in doing so you have no biblical evidence to show support for what day of the week the Lord's day too on top of the no historical evidence. You may not like that Sunday is called the Lord's day, but looking at it critically and given the historical record, that's what the day is refer to and there is no reason why we should challenge this.

Damien,

I am sorry, if its not in Scripture, its not that important to me. I do not think our own reasoning is the same as what God said, God defines what things are not us, so I am going to just agree to disagree.

Take care.

 

[BobRyan]

Can you prove this by Scripture? I see your words here, which is not the same. There is no day one is the Lords day anywhere in the entire Bible.

true.

Where does it say the Lords Day is now the day Christ resurrected?

no text says that.

Did Jesus teach this?

no

Did He tell anyone because He rose on the first day, after resting on the Sabbath in His tomb, we are no longer to keep the Sabbath commandment, and now keep Sunday?

not one word in scripture about that

He never told His close followers who were still keeping the Sabbath according to the commandment ,Luke 23:56 after His death and they were one of the first people He spoke with after He was risen. Seems like He would have told them, or His disciples, or anyone

good point.

 

[BobRyan]

Christ calls himself "Lord of the Sabbath" (Mat 12:8)

True
And also Sabbath as "The Holy Day of the Lord" IS 58:13

and also "The Sabbath of the LORD" Ex 20:10

And we find that it is Christ's day "The Son of man is LORD of the Sabbath" Mark 2:28

The didachae uses it, which has a date of 50-70 AD

Didache - Wikipedia

http://www.historicism.org/Documents/Didache.pdf

The Didache is mentioned by Eusebius (c. 324) as the Teachings of the Apostles following the books recognized as canonical:[21]

"Let there be placed among the spurious works the Acts of Paul, the so-called Shepherd and the Apocalypse of Peter, and besides these the Epistle of Barnabas, and what are called the Teachings of the Apostles, (Didache) and also the Apocalypse of John, if this be thought proper; for as I wrote before, some reject it, and others place it in the canon."

"Many scholars have dated the text to the late 2nd century CE, a view still held today, other scholars have the Didache might go back to the first century. The document is a composite work, and the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls with its Manual of Discipline provided evidence of development over a considerable period of time, beginning as a Jewish catechetical work which was then developed into a church manual. Additionally, apart from two minuscule fragments, the Greek text of the Didache has only survived in a single manuscript, the Codex Hierosolymitanus. Dating the document is thus made difficult both by the lack of hard evidence and its composite character. The Didache may have been compiled in its present form as late as 150,"

It is well know the church eventually called Sunday the Sabbath

not even used once that way in the NT by any NT authors.

 

[DamianWarS]

I am sorry, if its not in Scripture, its not that important to me. I do not think our own reasoning is the same as what God said, God defines what things are not us, so I am going to just agree to disagree

The video uses scripture for anecdotal support which should be strongly discouraged and considered itself immoral. For example, the very first point saying that the Sabbath is actually for all week not just for a day. Their motivation is to combat the idea that sabbath is only for 1 day a week therefore cannot pretain to morality if we are to accept that morality should not be considered time bound (if it right, it's always right, etc...) But their answer in no way changes this, there is time-bound instruction in the law: work for 6 days, cease work 1 day... then repeat. that's not how morality works that is not time-bound.

Their attempt to answer this affirms they accept that morality is not time-bound and if it's right on a Tuesday, then it should also be right on the Sabbath, so their whole argument hinges on this idea that they have implicitly accepted that morality is not time-bound. Because they fail to show sabbath is not time-bound they only show a law that is based on a separation of work and rest and inherently time-bound; the whole argument collapses. I am using scripture too, the same scripture they are using I'm using it to show the logic is incorrect.

This shouldn't matter anyway. the bible doesn't segment law this way, calling some moral, the other ceremonial, shadow or some other name you want to throw in there. We can group laws in various categories but just be aware these are post-biblical labels and we shouldn't develop doctrine on these labels, because who decided what law is labelled what? By what measure do you call something moral and something else ceremonial, because I missed that parable ergo we cannot call these labels inspired but instead post-biblical tradition.

When we begin to elevate certain laws and lower others by giving them special labels, we do a dishonor to the law. James tells us "if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers" (Jam 2:9) but your whole argument hinges on favouritism by separating laws into groups and valuing some while devaluing others. James speaks against this and by doing it, you come under condemnation of the whole law, not the segmented few you choose to isolate. When we view law as a whole, it creates logic problem when we say Christ has completed some and others he has not which then forces these motivations to segment law. But I reject this motivation because labelling law motivated in this way is not biblical, but is required for you to come to these conclusions. Fundamentally speaking, your argument is based on a non-biblical practice of segmenting law motivated to justify favouritism. You wag your finger at me, saying if it's not scripture, then it's not important. well why then do you continue this non-biblical practice to develop core doctrine?

 

[DamianWarS]

True
And also Sabbath as "The Holy Day of the Lord" IS 58:13

and also "The Sabbath of the LORD" Ex 20:10

And we find that it is Christ's day "The Son of man is LORD of the Sabbath" Mark 2:28

"The Lord's day" is an expression used once in the entire bible. Early church history shows an unbroken use of the word to support Sunday and modern Greek still uses it as the name for Sunday. Biblical records do not make any connection to this day and the Sabbath. You can say Is 58:13, Ex 20:10 or Ma 2:28 but there is a dishonesty in there or a failure to admit this is not a critical way of approaching it. you can study the topic yourself, and an overwhelming majority will affirm this is Sunday and there is no reason to challenge this.

Didache - Wikipedia

http://www.historicism.org/Documents/Didache.pdf

The Didache is mentioned by Eusebius (c. 324) as the Teachings of the Apostles following the books recognized as canonical:[21]

"Let there be placed among the spurious works the Acts of Paul, the so-called Shepherd and the Apocalypse of Peter, and besides these the Epistle of Barnabas, and what are called the Teachings of the Apostles, (Didache) and also the Apocalypse of John, if this be thought proper; for as I wrote before, some reject it, and others place it in the canon."

"Many scholars have dated the text to the late 2nd century CE, a view still held today, other scholars have the Didache might go back to the first century. The document is a composite work, and the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls with its Manual of Discipline provided evidence of development over a considerable period of time, beginning as a Jewish catechetical work which was then developed into a church manual. Additionally, apart from two minuscule fragments, the Greek text of the Didache has only survived in a single manuscript, the Codex Hierosolymitanus. Dating the document is thus made difficult both by the lack of hard evidence and its composite character. The Didache may have been compiled in its present form as late as 150,"

if it's the 2nd century it still is an early church record. to be clear the Didache doesn't say which day of the week the Lord's day occurs on, I used it to support it was part of the early church vocabulary.

not even used once that way in the NT by any NT authors.

You've misquoted me. I reject the idea the Sabbath day has changed to Sunday or any other day. Abstractly, you could say Sabbath can define every moment but if we are talking about a concrete day, it's how the bible defines it, which is sundown Friday to sundown Saturday. It is post-biblical tradition that calls sunday the Sabbath which I reject for the purposes for developing doctrine., Just as calling the Lord's day the Sabbath is also a post-biblical tradition. So by the same reason why you reject that Sunday is called the Sabbath then you should also reject that the Lord's day is called the Sabbath.