6,000 Years?

[trophy33]

They will not have proof. Just as science does not have proof it is older. It is ll a matter of faith.

Something like Last Thursdayism?

In such a case, the number 6,000 is quite useless. You can claim the same about 1,000, one week or 1 million of years. Without some rational, scientific verification, we are totally lost in randomness or personal wishes.

 

[truthpls]

Something like Last Thursdayism?

If they tried to offer proof of either, I suppose it might be like that a little

In such a case, the number 6,000 is quite useless. You can claim the same about 1,000, one week or 1 million of years. Without some rational, scientific verification, we are totally lost in randomness or personal wishes.

If one gets sore about the bogus numbers that anti creation science has bandied about being wrong and made up, then yes, they could grab other fictional numbers. Creation believers do not need to lie like that though, thankfully. We have Scripture that tells us what went down since the very beginning.

 

[trophy33]

If one gets sore about the bogus numbers that anti creation science has bandied about being wrong and made up, then yes, they could grab other fictional numbers. Creation believers do not need to lie like that though, thankfully. We have Scripture that tells us what went down since the very beginning.

Oh mine.

 

[BNR32FAN]

No, I mean scientific evidence that supports the 6,000 y/o belief……evidence that hasn’t been disprove over and over again.

No scientific evidence has ever “disproven” creation taking place 6,000 years ago because that evidence is based on predictions and assumptions.

 

[BNR32FAN]

So then how and why can certain churches (LCMS, for one) teach it is around 6000 years old?

Because the Bible gives an exact number of years in the genealogies from Adam to Abraham and they actually believe the Bible.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Yep. I got written proof handed down from ancestors who were on the Ark. They knew Noah very well and he explained it all...

Personally I think that information was given to Moses directly from God because there’s too many specific details and information about how God felt about certain events and situations for it to be handed down for 2500 years.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The only way the earth is "young" (6000-ish) is that God created it in a manner to make it "look" older. The universe looks billions of years old, and the Earth is also several billion years old. Of course, God could do that. He could have created the world 6000 years ago and made it look old. It's kind of like "antiquing" it. Some suggest that He may have created it looking ancient just to test the faithful and expect them to maintain it is only 6000 years old, despite it looking billions of years old. So, He tricked us? Being the perfect God that He is, nobody could resist His trickery, and we have all been understandably deceived by His Omni deception.
A few things.
The light arriving to our eyes from deep space is a narrative story of the universe. The things we are seeing happened, in some cases, hundreds of millions of years ago. What we are seeing each moment is a story in the sky. A book of celestial history. If this is in fact a story in the sky, then did God write a story that is a work of fiction? If the universe is only 6000 years old, then the things we are seeing now in the sky never actually happened. There are galaxies out there that are millions of light years away, but we are seeing them. We are forced to conclude that God created all the light (a story or narrative) between us and that galaxy. We see supernovas, exploding stars, and colliding galaxies in the sky. But, these things never actually happened. Most of the things you see in the night sky never happened in the apparent timeline. The light from a star 7000 light years away could not have reached us yet. All this is fine, but realize it could all be a deception.

Or maybe the reason everything looks so old is just due to the creation process. When God created Adam & Eve they weren’t newborns they were adults. Was God trying to trick everyone who hadn’t been created yet by making them appear to be older than they actually were?

 

[truthpls]

No scientific evidence has ever “disproven” creation taking place 6,000 years ago because that evidence is based on predictions and assumptions.

No scientific evidence has ever “proven” creation taking place any number of years ago or not because that evidence is based on lobotomized predictions and assumptions based on only part of the picture. Results are guaranteed to be wrong.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The only way the earth is "young" (6000-ish) is that God created it in a manner to make it "look" older. The universe looks billions of years old, and the Earth is also several billion years old. Of course, God could do that. He could have created the world 6000 years ago and made it look old. It's kind of like "antiquing" it. Some suggest that He may have created it looking ancient just to test the faithful and expect them to maintain it is only 6000 years old, despite it looking billions of years old. So, He tricked us? Being the perfect God that He is, nobody could resist His trickery, and we have all been understandably deceived by His Omni deception.
A few things.
The light arriving to our eyes from deep space is a narrative story of the universe. The things we are seeing happened, in some cases, hundreds of millions of years ago. What we are seeing each moment is a story in the sky. A book of celestial history. If this is in fact a story in the sky, then did God write a story that is a work of fiction? If the universe is only 6000 years old, then the things we are seeing now in the sky never actually happened. There are galaxies out there that are millions of light years away, but we are seeing them. We are forced to conclude that God created all the light (a story or narrative) between us and that galaxy. We see supernovas, exploding stars, and colliding galaxies in the sky. But, these things never actually happened. Most of the things you see in the night sky never happened in the apparent timeline. The light from a star 7000 light years away could not have reached us yet. All this is fine, but realize it could all be a deception.

The Bible specifically says that the stars were placed in the heavens to be a sign of the seasons for man. Doesn’t make much sense to put them there for that purpose if man can’t see them.

 

[FaithT]

Because the Bible gives an exact number of years in the genealogies from Adam to Abraham and they actually believe the Bible.

The genealogies are known to be incomplete.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Let's talk about the Word of God.

Genesis 1:1-3 NRSVUE
[1] When God began to create the heavens and the earth, [2] the earth was complete chaos, and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters. [3] Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

Where in the first chapter of Genesis does it say anything about the earth coming into being? The beginning is "when" God began creating, not the time in which the earth came into existence.

Or some people prefer this translation:
Genesis 1:1-3 NRSV
[1] In the beginning when God created the heavens and the earth, [2] the earth was a formless void and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters. [3] Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.

But still, in the beginning when God created the heavens and the earth, the earth was [already] the earth was formless and empty.

But it was there, already. It was just formless. In the beginning when God created it.

Indeed, the text even tells us when God created it. It wasnt even in verse 1, rather, it was on the 3rd day:

Genesis 1:9-10 NRSV
[9] And God said, “Let the waters under the sky be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so. [10] God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.

This is where God created the earth. And it was good.

And when did God create the heavens?
Genesis 1:6-8 NASB2020
[6] Then God said, “Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” [7] God made the expanse, and separated the waters that were below the expanse from the waters that were above the expanse; and it was so. [8] God called the expanse “heaven.” And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.

That's right. God created heaven on day 2. Not in verse 1.

The catch is that both heaven and earth were already there. The earth was there and God simply moved the waters off of it so that the dry land would appear. And heaven was already there too, God just expanded it between the waters and moved the waters out of the way (kind of like what God did with the read sea, separating waters from waters).

And remember, God creates with the spoken word. Literally every creation day begins with "God Said":

Genesis 1:6, 8-9, 13-14, 19-20, 23-24, 31 NASB2020

[6] Then God said, “Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.”
[8] God called the expanse “heaven.” And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.

[9] Then God said, “Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so.
[13] And there was evening and there was morning, a third day.

[14] Then God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and they shall serve as signs and for seasons, and for days and years;
[19] And there was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.

[20] Then God said, “Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens.”
[23] And there was evening and there was morning, a fifth day.

[24] Then God said, “Let the earth produce living creatures according to their kind: livestock and crawling things and animals of the earth according to their kind”; and it was so.
[31] And God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.

And when is the first time God speaks and the first thing He creates?

Light. Not heaven and earth

Then you go to chapter 2 and see that God rested from His work from everything He created and made on the 7th day, which contradicts your interpretation of Genesis 1:1.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The genealogies are known to be incomplete.

Where do you get that from?

 

[trophy33]

The Bible specifically says that the stars were placed in the heavens to be a sign of the seasons for man. Doesn’t make much sense to put them there for that purpose if man can’t see them.

That was the Iron Age flat earth idea. However, there are plenty of stars not visible with naked eye, only through telescopes. Because we actually live in a vast space.

 

[BNR32FAN]

That was the Iron Age flat earth idea. However, there are plenty of stars not visible with naked eye, only through telescopes. Because we actually live in a vast space.

I’m not sure what your point is.

 

[trophy33]

I’m not sure what your point is.

That what the Genesis says is said under the Iron Age flat earth worldview. In reality, stars are not just lights in the firmament, but huge objects and the majority of them is not visible for men.

 

[BNR32FAN]

That what the Genesis says is said under the Iron Age flat earth worldview. In reality, stars are not just lights in the firmament, but huge objects and the majority of them is not visible for men.

I’m not a flat earther and just because there are stars that man can’t see with the naked eye is irrelevant. It still doesn’t disprove young earth creation.

 

[trophy33]

I’m not a flat earther and just because there are stars that man can’t see with the naked eye is irrelevant. It still doesn’t disprove young earth creation.

You said:
The Bible specifically says that the stars were placed in the heavens to be a sign of the seasons for man. Doesn’t make much sense to put them there for that purpose if man can’t see them.

To which I said that this is the Iron Age flat earth idea which does not correspond to reality.

The fact that Genesis cannot be taken literally actually disprove the "young earth creation", because its source is also in the literal reading of Genesis.

 

[FaithT]

Where do you get that from?

The internet. Reasons to Believe. Catholic Answers. BioLogos

 

[truthpls]

The Bible specifically says that the stars were placed in the heavens to be a sign of the seasons for man. Doesn’t make much sense to put them there for that purpose if man can’t see them.

It also says for signs and seasons. In the end the stars will fall and also there will be signs in the heavens. Those signs are for those who then can see them! It does not mean that all stars in the universe were to be signs for the first few thousand years of history.

 

[trophy33]

It also says for signs and seasons. In the end the stars will fall and also there will be signs in the heavens. Those signs are for those who then can see them! It does not mean that all stars in the universe were to be signs for the first few thousand years of history.

Stars cannot fall to earth. The lights we see falling on earth are actually meteorites, but the ancient people did not understand what a star or a meteorite is.

"Look, a falling star! Wish something!" remained in our language, but it is just a poetic expression.