Spectacular Presentation Of The Wonders Of God's Creation

[Joseph G]

Why ever not. This sub-forum has the title: "Creation and Evolution."

Brother David, a respectful bit of advice? I appreciate you restating the obvious, and that you are a veteran here, but consider resisting biting on this tired repetitive retort and effort to control and bully and exclude. They know that evidence of a Creator, a knowable Creator, is perfectly permissable in this forum. They just want to oh so not believe it - because it threatens their desire to create an echo chamber out of a public square.

If the Scriptural evidence were so obviously without pertinence here, why don't they just ignore it? But they... just... can't... seem... to... resist. Hmm... fulfilling Scripture themselves without knowing it. DOH!

Have a good laugh and keep posting and praying. Remember from 1 Cor 13: "Love is not easily provoked."

Just a thunk...

By the way, anyone seen Astrid lately? She was one of my favs!

*major huge impish grin*

 

[Joseph G]

.... your attitude is still strange and bizarre to me.

So what is the point of the video and how does it relate to evolution?

Diligent study of God's Word performing in harmony with His creation - destroys the theory of macro-evolution. But if one focuses on only one aspect of His witness - never rising above the ponderance of one's own intellect - and closes one off to His accompanying Voice, then most certainly one will not see or hear. Even looking right at Him.

As in this vid - for just one example.

It's like watching an opera singer perform 'The Marriage Of Figaro' and just seeing him standing there all alone on the stage. No other performers, no story line, no backdrop or props, no accompanying musical instruments.

Stiff, rigid, clinical and uninspiring.

One can solely focus on and debate the "Theory Of The Lone Opera Singer" into perpetuity - analyzing and dissecting and gathering opinions by experts - and writing and re-writing an abundance of tomes supporting such - and completely miss the entire production - presenting a true majestic combined work of incomparable beauty.

That choice is willfully myopic - and certainly not reflective of the intent of The Creator Of The Cosmic Production Himself.

So really then, in view of this consideration - what is more bizarre than pretending that God doesn't exist, or if acknowledging such, refusing to believe that He desires one to know Him?

And that He is fully capable of revealing Himself to the genuine seeker? Is this simple requirement just too offensive to those who must be their own god, never bowing the knee in acknowledgement to the truly Superior Intellect to their own?

So anywho, being the king of the last word, I invite you to leap in and fire away as usual, mon freund.

Realize, though, that neither you nor I will ultimately have that honor - nor shall any mere mortal. And in fact, we don't now. We never did.

Only One Word has remained unchanged since eternity past - long before He dreamed you and I up in His Mind - and will remain unchanged unto all eternity. The Alpha and Omega Himself.

The Last Word?

AMEN!

Spiritually:

Revelation 3:14b NIV
"These are the words of the AMEN, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God's creation."

And as Holy Writ:

Revelation 22:20-21 KJV
"He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come Lord Jesus."

"The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. AMEN!"

Hey... don't rely on me. Look it up fo yo - selves. Last Word. Right here:

biblegateway.com

 

[Ophiolite]

Brother David, a respectful bit of advice? I appreciate you restating the obvious, and that you are a veteran here, but consider resisting biting on this tired repetitive retort and effort to control and bully and exclude. They know that evidence of a Creator, a knowable Creator, is perfectly permissable in this forum. They just want to oh so not believe it - because it threatens their desire to create an echo chamber out of a public square

Narcacisstic nonsense. There was no effort to exclude, rather the reactions from those whom you seem to despise fell into one of these categories:

• I don't understand how this video is relevant to the forum.
• This video isn't relevant to the forum.
• This is video is recycling previously debunked arguments.

We (the atheist and agnostic cartel) have no control over any aspect of the forum. I see no evidence of bullying in any of the posts - point to examples, perhaps I am myopic. The only exclusion on this forum is the exclusion of non-Christians from the greater part of the forum. In that regard this is not a public square.

And please, do you seriously believe that nonsense that "we want oh so not to believe"? "We" fall, mainly, into two camps: one who never had any reason, inclination or interest in believing and one who believed at one time, but found, increasingly, no reason, or benefit in believing and so many reasons not to.

 

[Ophiolite]

Interesting...

Just one point I would like to address:

You said:

"Simple, natural processes, for example..."

What exactly is "natural"? Am I safe in assuming that you mean the observable physical realm that replicates in like manner - the physical?

If so, I would like to issue an offer to ponder this phenomena from a Christian perspective.

We believe that God is Spirit. And as exhaustively contended here, is responsible for the creation of the natural. We believe that the creation itself is evidence of a vastly superior intelligence we name as our God (or rather that Ge revealed Himself to us - we sought - we see). If you disagree, could you please lay aside the last conclusion temporarily?

Granting thrre

I see we have cross posted. I would like to reply to this, but it seems your post is truncated. Also, I am not clear which conclusion you wish me to lay aside. I'm not even sure if you mean one of yours, or one of mine. I am certainly ready to lay any conclusion aside temporarily in order to explore a line of reasoning.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

<snip>

That was so many words and nothing of value said.

 

[Joseph G]

Narcacisstic nonsense. There was no effort to exclude, rather the reactions from those whom you seem to despise fell into one of these categories:

• I don't understand how this video is relevant to the forum.
• This video isn't relevant to the forum.
• This is video is recycling previously debunked arguments.

We (the atheist and agnostic cartel) have no control over any aspect of the forum. I see no evidence of bullying in any of the posts - point to examples, perhaps I am myopic. The only exclusion on this forum is the exclusion of non-Christians from the greater part of the forum. In that regard this is not a public square.

And please, do you seriously believe that nonsense that "we want oh so not to believe"? "We" fall, mainly, into two camps: one who never had any reason, inclination or interest in believing and one who believed at one time, but found, increasingly, no reason, or benefit in believing and so many reasons not to.

Really? Then what compels you to post here - ya know - on Christian Forums? Isn't there a grand old forum out there as vaunted as this, where athiests and agnostics are the majority? Is it not an overarching desire to courageously best the one's who threaten your confidence in your own beliefs - the Christians? And maybe even win converts to your camp?

If this is accurate, then what's your beef with our desire to do the same? Is it perhaps your contention that you represent the wisdom of men, and we the superior wisdom of God (which you inaccurately claim as narcissism - that would be boasting in self - which if you have studied the Christian faith is just opposite of what we clearly claim is one of Christ's mandates - death to self. Leaning not on our own understanding but in all our ways acknowledging Him).

I'm genuinely curious.

As for the behavior I've noted of some, if it does not apply to you then I would ask that you not take offense. But it most certainly exists. I can't count how many times those of such attitude have postured themselves as moderators who aren't, ran to moderators to complain, and in a few instances successfully influenced a moderator to review and give warning or to delete the post. I'm sure I'm not the only one, and that it was commonplace long before I arrived.

And I'll bet my bottom dollar that never a Christian behaved in kind.

Sometimes we just gotta pull up our big boy pants and accept that all sides are passionate about their views. Adults can take the heat and remain in the kitchen.

Finit'!

 

[Joseph G]

I see we have cross posted. I would like to reply to this, but it seems your post is truncated. Also, I am not clear which conclusion you wish me to lay aside. I'm not even sure if you mean one of yours, or one of mine. I am certainly ready to lay any conclusion aside temporarily in order to explore a line of reasoning.

Yeah, it posted while in mid sentence, ha! Kinda like my wife used to do to me. Could you disregard for now, let me delete and repost in full? Will be a while I predict.

As an aside, I've been wanting to ask if anyone else is experiencing this... has CF not been acting all screwy for months now? In the middle of typing and poof it jumps to some other post and lose everything *arrrghh*. The screen jumps on its own to the top of the page. And those @#$% pop-up ads interfering like every 3 minutes it seems or between every click to the next page. I used to use an ad blocker but something funky happened I can't remember. Is it just me?

Oh, and one more, but I think this is my phone. Say I'm in the midst of typing another verbose post, and I need to jump to another window to research something. I come back and tap on this window - and the page reloads and the edit window is gone. I've learned that if I carefully and with utmost precision tap on another link, find the post again, find the specific portion, tap reply, then either some or all of what I typed reappears.

I know, I should post this in a help forum, but I'm inspired to do so because surely there are technical gurus here. If not, I can now copy/paste instead of starting from scratch. Na na, beatcha CF!

Carefully now, Robin, must tap 'post reply' repeatedly until it complies. Well done, old chum!

 

[Joseph G]

I think, considering what he's saying and posting about, he wants you to lay aside the 'simple natural processes' type of thinking.

W, may I ask with the greatest gentleness... could we please converse without you jumping in to intepret? You and me are engaged with each other, may Ophiolite and I do the same?

And... I thank you! *curtsying*

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

W, my I ask with the greatest gentleness... could we please converse without you jumping in to intepret? You and me are engaged with each other, may Ophiolite and I do the same?

And... I thank you! *curtsying*

My original reply was mean and a tad hypocritical of me. I'll delete the other post.

 

[Joseph G]

My original reply was mean and a tad hypocritical of me. I'll delete the other post.

Oh rats, and I missed it??? Hey, kudos to you, Warden. Gee... *I'm* never mean or hypocritical *cough cough*

 

[Joseph G]

Really? Then what compels you to post here - ya know - on Christian Forums? Isn't there a grand old forum out there as vaunted as this, where athiests and agnostics are the majority? Is it not an overarching desire to courageously best the one's who threaten your confidence in your own beliefs - the Christians? And maybe even win converts to your camp?

If this is accurate, then what's your beef with our desire to do the same? Is it perhaps your contention that you represent the wisdom of men, and we the superior wisdom of God (which you inaccurately claim as narcissism - that would be boasting in self - which if you have studied the Christian faith is just opposite of what we clearly claim is one of Christ's mandates - death to self. Leaning not on our own understanding but in all our ways acknowledging Him).

I'm genuinely curious.

As for the behavior I've noted of some, if it does not apply to you then I would ask that you not take offense. But it most certainly exists. I can't count how many times those of such attitude have postured themselves as moderators who aren't, ran to moderators to complain, and in a few instances successfully influenced a moderator to review and give warning or to delete the post. I'm sure I'm not the only one, and that it was commonplace long before I arrived.

And I'll bet my bottom dollar that never a Christian behaved in kind.

Sometimes we just gotta pull up our big boy pants and accept that all sides are passionate about their views. Adults can take the heat and remain in the kitchen.

Finit'!

I just love being a source of joy for you, W. Wouldn't you know? That's Christ's desire for *everyone*

John 15:9-17 NIV
"As the Father has loved me, so I have loved you. Now remain in my love. If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in His love."

"I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. You are my friends if you do what I command."

"I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you."

"You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. This is my command: Love each other."

 

[BCP1928]

Diligent study of God's Word performing in harmony with His creation - destroys the theory of macro-evolution. B

At last the other shoe has dropped.

Of course, the theory of evolution does "deny" a literal reading of Genesis. But nobody else, not even the majority of Christians, cares very much. If you can turn it into an attack on God you might get more recruits, is that the idea?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

View attachment 364459

I just love being a source of joy for you, W. Wouldn't you know? That's Christ's desire for *everyone*

John 15:9-17 NIV
"As the Father has loved me, so I have loved you. Now remain in my love. If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in His love."

"I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. You are my friends if you do what I command."

"I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you."

"You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. This is my command: Love each other."

I only use the 'laugh' emoji since this website does not allow anyone to downvote or dislike comments.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Define "historical truth", because it ain't anything like that that is on-topic on this sub-forum in the bible.

... I see where I made a wrong turn by having misunderstood what you intended by your imperative of "define."

You're right; this thread is dealing with pre-history, not history.

 

[Ophiolite]

Yeah, it posted while in mid sentence, ha! Kinda like my wife used to do to me. Could you disregard for now, let me delete and repost in full? Will be a while I predict.

As an aside, I've been wanting to ask if anyone else is experiencing this... has CF not been acting all screwy for months now? In the middle of typing and poof it jumps to some other post and lose everything *arrrghh*. The screen jumps on its own to the top of the page. And those @#$% pop-up ads interfering like every 3 minutes it seems or between every click to the next page. I used to use an ad blocker but something funky happened I can't remember. Is it just me?

Oh, and one more, but I think this is my phone. Say I'm in the midst of typing another verbose post, and I need to jump to another window to research something. I come back and tap on this window - and the page reloads and the edit window is gone. I've learned that if I carefully and with utmost precision tap on another link, find the post again, find the specific portion, tap reply, then either some or all of what I typed reappears.

I know, I should post this in a help forum, but I'm inspired to do so because surely there are technical gurus here. If not, I can now copy/paste instead of starting from scratch. Na na, beatcha CF!

Carefully now, Robin, must tap 'post reply' repeatedly until it complies. Well done, old chum!

I await your repost with interest.

I have not noticed any recent glitches in CF. In general I find they are rare and I suspect a significant percentage of perceived glitches are errors on my part, or poor memory recall.

And in regard to @Warden_of_the_Storm's intervention, seeking to clarify your intent, I welcome such interventions. This is a discussion forum. If I wish to hold an exclusive exchange with an individual I would pm them. I come here for a diversity of views and restricting conversation in the way you seem to favour limits that.

 

[Ophiolite]

Really? Then what compels you to post here - ya know - on Christian Forums? Isn't there a grand old forum out there as vaunted as this, where athiests and agnostics are the majority? Is it not an overarching desire to courageously best the one's who threaten your confidence in your own beliefs - the Christians? And maybe even win converts to your camp?

I have been asked that first question multiple times on this forum. At first is puzzled me, now it just saddens me.
First, my primary reason for coming to the forum is not to post, but to read other posts, especially posts that contain either new information, or a viewpoint that it notably different from mine. Consequently the number of posts I read far outnumbers the number of posts I write. (Surely that ratio is the same for practically every member?)
Secondly, when I post I seek clarfication, of a fact, or opinion; or to impart information; or to deliver what I imagine to be a witty remark.

In all of these, reading and posting, the only significance that this is a Christian forum is that allows me to engage with a specific community of fellow humans.

I have no idea what the ratio of Christians, agnostics, atheists, and those adherents of many other religions is on the several other forums I have particiapted in, nor do I care. I enjoy "winning an argument" as much as the next homo sapiens, but I enjoy far more learning things, imparting knowledge where I have it, and challenging the perspectives of others, not to "put one over on them", but get them thinking about things in a way they may not previously done.

I mean seriously, you wrote "Is it not an overarching desire to courageously best the one's who threaten your confidence in your own beliefs - the Christians?" I want my understanding, my opinions, my perceptions, my concepts to be challenged. I have found that on occassion at CF. Those challenges have come from agnostics, Christians, Islamists, atheists, Jews and others, some of whom I don't even know what their religious inclination is. Talk about misreading someone's motives!

If this is accurate, then what's your beef with our desire to do the same? Is it perhaps your contention that you represent the wisdom of men, and we the superior wisdom of God (which you inaccurately claim as narcissism - that would be boasting in self - which if you have studied the Christian faith is just opposite of what we clearly claim is one of Christ's mandates - death to self. Leaning not on our own understanding but in all our ways acknowledging Him).

Well, it wasn't accurate. And the narcissism I referenced was yours for presuming, with such confidence and inaccurary, that you understood the motives of non-Christians on this forum.

I'm genuinely curious.

Well, curiosity is one thing we have in common. Perhaps we can build on that. You may have noticed I used the phrase "my understanding, my opinions, my perceptions, my concepts" instead of "my beliefs". If you wish I will explain why I consider beliefs to be a fatuous, dangerous, infantile comfort blanket. (It would give me the opportunity to exercise my own narcissistic tendencies.)

As for the behavior I've noted of some, if it does not apply to you then I would ask that you not take offense. But it most certainly exists. I can't count how many times those of such attitude have postured themselves as moderators who aren't, ran to moderators to complain, and in a few instances successfully influenced a moderator to review and give warning or to delete the post. I'm sure I'm not the only one, and that it was commonplace long before I arrived.

Uhhuh.

And I'll bet my bottom dollar that never a Christian behaved in kind.

You would lose the dollar. I have experienced it on this forum.

Sometimes we just gotta pull up our big boy pants and accept that all sides are passionate about their views. Adults can take the heat and remain in the kitchen.

Agreed, so pull your ups and recognise that your characterisation of atheists and agnostics was wrong.

Well, I've noticed you like to have the last word, so I don't want to disappoint.

Finit'!

Well, I've noticed you like to have the last word, so I don't want to disappoint.

 

[Joseph G]

I have been asked that first question multiple times on this forum. At first is puzzled me, now it just saddens me.
First, my primary reason for coming to the forum is not to post, but to read other posts, especially posts that contain either new information, or a viewpoint that it notably different from mine. Consequently the number of posts I read far outnumbers the number of posts I write. (Surely that ratio is the same for practically every member?)
Secondly, when I post I seek clarfication, of a fact, or opinion; or to impart information; or to deliver what I imagine to be a witty remark.

In all of these, reading and posting, the only significance that this is a Christian forum is that allows me to engage with a specific community of fellow humans.

I have no idea what the ratio of Christians, agnostics, atheists, and those adherents of many other religions is on the several other forums I have particiapted in, nor do I care. I enjoy "winning an argument" as much as the next homo sapiens, but I enjoy far more learning things, imparting knowledge where I have it, and challenging the perspectives of others, not to "put one over on them", but get them thinking about things in a way they may not previously done.

I mean seriously, you wrote "Is it not an overarching desire to courageously best the one's who threaten your confidence in your own beliefs - the Christians?" I want my understanding, my opinions, my perceptions, my concepts to be challenged. I have found that on occassion at CF. Those challenges have come from agnostics, Christians, Islamists, atheists, Jews and others, some of whom I don't even know what their religious inclination is. Talk about misreading someone's motives!

Well, it wasn't accurate. And the narcissism I referenced was yours for presuming, with such confidence and inaccurary, that you understood the motives of non-Christians on this forum.

Well, curiosity is one thing we have in common. Perhaps we can build on that. You may have noticed I used the phrase "my understanding, my opinions, my perceptions, my concepts" instead of "my beliefs". If you wish I will explain why I consider beliefs to be a fatuous, dangerous, infantile comfort blanket. (It would give me the opportunity to exercise my own narcissistic tendencies.)

Uhhuh.

You would lose the dollar. I have experienced it on this forum.

Agreed, so pull your ups and recognise that your characterisation of atheists and agnostics was wrong.

Well, I've noticed you like to have the last word, so I don't want to disappoint.

Well, I've noticed you like to have the last word, so I don't want to disappoint.

Well... as long as you're making the invitation, I'll take it.

God bless you and have a stupendously great day!

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Well... as long as you're making the invitation, I'll take it.

God bless you and have a stupendously great day!

Joseph, I really have to ask: do you ever intend to actually engage with anyone who doesn't agree with what you say, or is it just banal quotes like this and un-connected Bible verses before you run away to your next drive-by posting?

 

[Hans Blaster]

Joseph, I know you wrote this to another, but a variety of responses may be useful to you.

Really? Then what compels you to post here - ya know - on Christian Forums? Isn't there a grand old forum out there as vaunted as this, where athiests and agnostics are the majority?

I never ran into any "atheist forum" or went looking for one. I wasn't looking for this site or a place to post. I followed a thread I was reading on some pseudoscience from a different board to this one. After checking out the rest of the P&LS section I stuck around and started reading it regularly. Eventually I decided I wanted to engage in the conversations about science and pseudoscience on this board, so I joined.

Some who signed up here were believers who lost faith after joining, others were "seakers" and ended up on a different path. Some probably came here to argue with Christians, but don't assume that about us as a class.

Is it not an overarching desire to courageously best the one's who threaten your confidence in your own beliefs - the Christians?

I rarely discuss my beliefs here. Creationism is no threat to my understanding of science.

And maybe even win converts to your camp?

Non-believers are not permitted to make explicit arguments against god (apologetics). If someone stops believing because of the things they learn from it, that would be nice, but it is not our purpose, nor can we make it so. I'm not interested in recruiting anyway, though I would like Christians to stop trying to control my country.

If this is accurate, then what's your beef with our desire to do the same?

It's a discussion and debate board. Preaching isn't discussion. Propaganda videos aren't discussion. You can start the same kind of thread by saying "Here is a thing I think is true (about nature). This is why I think it is true. What do you guys think or why do you disagree." This is what you did for this post.

Is it perhaps your contention that you represent the wisdom of men, and we the superior wisdom of God (which you inaccurately claim as narcissism - that would be boasting in self - which if you have studied the Christian faith is just opposite of what we clearly claim is one of Christ's mandates - death to self. Leaning not on our own understanding but in all our ways acknowledging Him).

I definitely don't think the wisdom of god is superior and general theology isn't the topic or interesting.

I'm genuinely curious.

I sincerely hope you are.

As for the behavior I've noted of some, if it does not apply to you then I would ask that you not take offense. But it most certainly exists. I can't count how many times those of such attitude have postured themselves as moderators who aren't, ran to moderators to complain, and in a few instances successfully influenced a moderator to review and give warning or to delete the post. I'm sure I'm not the only one, and that it was commonplace long before I arrived.

The only time I contacted the moderators was to report an obviously obscene post that was made by a new account. Like many posters here I have noted in replies to posts that their post was pushing the edge (or past it) of the rules so that the poster might fix the problem or divert discussion back onto the permitted path without needed to call the Mods.

And I'll bet my bottom dollar that never a Christian behaved in kind.

You should hold onto that dollar. Misbehavior is spread over religious groups on this site with no obvious difference in rate.

Sometimes we just gotta pull up our big boy pants and accept that all sides are passionate about their views. Adults can take the heat and remain in the kitchen.

Finit'!

Cheers.

 

[trophy33]

Is it perhaps your contention that you represent the wisdom of men, and we the superior wisdom of God

I am a Christian and I must say that I frequently read all kind of nonsense from Christians. What is worse, the less they are educated about a topic, the more they feel confident. A classic Dunning-Kruger.