THE LAW OF MOSES FLOWS FROM THE TEN COMMANDMENTS

[JesusFollowerForever]

If I folllowed your advice on keeping commands I would be keeping the ritual commands given only to Israel in the old covenant. John, in the next sentence, goes on to tell us what commands WE are to observe. Funny they do not jive with your instructions. AND HIS COMMANDMENTS ARE: And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.

I choose to follow the New Testament teachings on how to serve God and my fellow man. I am not saved because of my works, I am saved by the blood of the Lamb. Teaching that we have to keep days is diametrically opposed to any teaching in the New Testament.

As you know, this is not the only thing that was said, also believing in Jesus means to do as he asked. We cannot use one verse, we have to know all Jesus said to have the full picture. Paul forgets often to mention to love God first, do not forget this.

 

[Clare73]

Claire was not leprosy a disease? Leveticus describes it and what to to to avoid it..many had to do with health;

Yes, leprosy was a disease. . .and the food laws (which are the topic of our discussion) of clean and unclean (as in pork), had nothing to do with leprosy. . .nor did they have to do with health.
Some things (including some foods) were made ceremonially (not actually) defiling to teach the meaning of spiritual defilement (sin).

Deuteronomy 24:8
Deu 24:8 Take heed in the plague of leprosy, that thou observe diligently, and do according to all that the priests the Levites shall teach you: as I commanded them, so ye shall observe to do.
Lev 22:4 What man soever of the seed of Aaron is a leper, or hath a running issue; he shall not eat of the holy things, until he be clean. And whoso toucheth any thing that is unclean by the dead, or a man whose seed goeth from him;
see the whole chapter, Leviticus 14 about health and disease. some laws were about health and how to avoid sickness and remaining healthy.

Yes. . .Lev 13-14 are about skin disease, but the rest were not. . .leprosy is neither affected nor effected by food laws.

The Levitical ceremonial laws of physical defilement were for the purpose of teaching the meaning of spiritual defilement (sin).
They were not for the purpose of health.

However, the ceremonial defilement laws relating to disease also served as health laws.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

I have no idea if you are a hit and run on this thread, but I will do my best to help you understand some of the wrong things you have written. I pray that you believe Paul was Jesus's ambassador. Some ignore his writings because the writings tell us we are not under the commands of the old covenant and for some reason they believe we are under many of the rituals of that covenant. First of all, that covenant was made exclusively for Israel. No other nation was ever given the ritual commands. If the Ten Commandments were cancelled it would only concern the Jews. Paul writes that indeed the Ten were cancelled. Read this:
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. 2Cor3

Paul called the Ten the ministry of death, why, because they could only condemn those who broke them, they had no power to save. God did not leave mankind without guidance, Paul states in those verses that the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is now our guide.

They never did apply to Gentiles my friend. Where did you get such an idea? You are teaching heresy.

Absolutely none of those referenced verses tell us that God's commands are the Ten commandments. Yes, we are to keep God's commands and 1Jn 3: 19-24 explains what His commands for all mankind are. Read those verses in post #20 and get the truth.

Oh, so we have to abide by what Messianic believers teach, or we are disobedient and if we don't, we are not following God's will. I find that insulting. I have to observe feast days, abstain from certain foods and observe the weekly Sabbath and if I don't do all those things I presume I will be lost?

Maybe you do not understand that Jesus came to this Earth to a group of people that were under the Laws of the old covenant. He too was born under those Laws and kept them, taught them and until His death on the Cross was subject to them. Gentiles were not under those ritual laws ( laws dealing with morality are forever and all mankind are to keep them.) Jesus said He kept all those laws and asks us to keep His laws Read it in Jn15:9-14

40,000 denominations and the Messianic movement is one of them that believe claim they have the truth.

Do you believe Jesus is God? We are Jesus' friends if we love others as He loves us. Jn15:9-14. We belong to the TRUTH if we believe in God and love others as Jesus taught us to do. 1jn3:19-24 The Good News is so simple that a child can understand. All the laws that Israel was subject some churches today try to impose on their flocks makes it hard for even adults to grasp and try to keep. It is no wonder the dropout rate in those churches is so great

Bob, think for a second, you do not want the ten commandments you think they are obsolete, how can they be in your heart?

I know you follow the last 6 ( about loving our neighbour ) but what about the first four Commandments about loving GOD? they are not so easy to grasp fully in one glance one must meditate on these and understand the full implication of what loving God entails, In particular OBEDIENCE, this is not a liked topic who wants to obey today, I did post a thread on obedience, got a few visitors but no comments, nothing as I expected. I knew Obedience would be very unpopular.

Jesus said clearly the Law would not pass, you should believe him above all else, Not me but Jesus, read in full what he said , sometimes it becomes necessary to refresh our memory bu reading scripture often, I do it all the time and I always see things I never saw before, and make links that I could not grasp before. doing so increases out understanding.

Blessings

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Yes, leprosy was a disease. . .and the food laws (which are the topic of our discussion) of clean and unclean (as in pork), had nothing to do with leprosy. . .nor did they have to do with health.
Some things (including some foods) were made ceremonially (not actually) defiling to teach the meaning of spiritual defilement (sin).

Yes. . .Lev 13-14 are about skin disease, but the rest were not. . .leprosy is neither affected nor effected by food laws.

The Levitical ceremonial laws of physical defilement were for the purpose of teaching the meaning of spiritual defilement (sin).
They were not for the purpose of health.

However, the ceremonial defilement laws relating to disease also served as health laws.

I do not recall discussing food laws, perhaps you confuse me with someone else?

 

[A.W.B.]

I hope everyone realizes that Jesus did not obey every law under the Old Covenant, but every law that pertained to Him, thereby fulfilling the Law of God. Perhaps we should do the same? As an aside, if one obeyed the instructions of the Master, we would, I think by default, follow God's Commandments—not by compulsion nor in the hope of finding favor with God or in securing one's salvation, but out of love. Especially John and Timothy held the Commandments in high regard (e,g, 1John 2:3,4; 3:22, 24; 5:2,3; 1Tim 1:8 and of course the "father of our faith", Abraham, Gen 26:5 and don't forget Rev 12:17,14:12 & 22:14 ), but learning how to apply God's Law "lawfully" may tax most of us.
Also remember context is everything.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

I have no idea if you are a hit and run on this thread, but I will do my best to help you understand some of the wrong things you have written. I pray that you believe Paul was Jesus's ambassador. Some ignore his writings because the writings tell us we are not under the commands of the old covenant and for some reason they believe we are under many of the rituals of that covenant. First of all, that covenant was made exclusively for Israel. No other nation was ever given the ritual commands. If the Ten Commandments were cancelled it would only concern the Jews. Paul writes that indeed the Ten were cancelled. Read this:
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. 2Cor3

Paul called the Ten the ministry of death, why, because they could only condemn those who broke them, they had no power to save. God did not leave mankind without guidance, Paul states in those verses that the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is now our guide.

They never did apply to Gentiles my friend. Where did you get such an idea? You are teaching heresy.

Absolutely none of those referenced verses tell us that God's commands are the Ten commandments. Yes, we are to keep God's commands and 1Jn 3: 19-24 explains what His commands for all mankind are. Read those verses in post #20 and get the truth.

Oh, so we have to abide by what Messianic believers teach, or we are disobedient and if we don't, we are not following God's will. I find that insulting. I have to observe feast days, abstain from certain foods and observe the weekly Sabbath and if I don't do all those things I presume I will be lost?

Maybe you do not understand that Jesus came to this Earth to a group of people that were under the Laws of the old covenant. He too was born under those Laws and kept them, taught them and until His death on the Cross was subject to them. Gentiles were not under those ritual laws ( laws dealing with morality are forever and all mankind are to keep them.) Jesus said He kept all those laws and asks us to keep His laws Read it in Jn15:9-14

40,000 denominations and the Messianic movement is one of them that believe claim they have the truth.

Do you believe Jesus is God? We are Jesus' friends if we love others as He loves us. Jn15:9-14. We belong to the TRUTH if we believe in God and love others as Jesus taught us to do. 1jn3:19-24 The Good News is so simple that a child can understand. All the laws that Israel was subject some churches today try to impose on their flocks makes it hard for even adults to grasp and try to keep. It is no wonder the dropout rate in those churches is so great

Bob, do you know why there are so many denominations but only one truth?

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Exactly, and when you do that, it becomes clear that the Mosaic Law has been superseded, and salvation is not gained by adhering to the Ten Commandments.

16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good[a] Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”
17 So He said to him, [b]“Why do you call Me good? [c]No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

I tell you all, the ten commandments are the Covenant

Furthermore, the idea that worship on Sunday is somehow sinful, particularly in the case of churches that also worship on Saturday, like the Orthodox Church, contradicts the express statements of St. Paul in Colossians 2:16.

Doing God's will is what is important not following the tradition of men. And I do not judge, it is not for me to do so. Know that the sabbath as God ordained is a sign of the Covenant between men and God, God tests Obedience here to see what we do;

Exo 16:4 Then the LORD said to Moses, “Behold, I will rain down bread from heaven for you. Each day the people are to go out and gather enough for that day. In this way I will test whether or not they will follow My instructions.

This manna episode reinforces the importance of the Sabbath rest as part of God's covenant with Israel. The Sabbath was a day of rest, a holy day set apart for God. The people’s failure to observe the Sabbath properly, as seen in their disobedience in manna collection, serves as a lesson about trusting God and following His instructions.

 

[The Liturgist]

16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good[a] Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”
17 So He said to him, [b]“Why do you call Me good? [c]No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

I tell you all, the ten commandments are the Covenant

Doing God's will is what is important not following the tradition of men. And I do not judge, it is not for me to do so. Know that the sabbath as God ordained is a sign of the Covenant between men and God, God tests Obedience here to see what we do;

Exo 16:4 Then the LORD said to Moses, “Behold, I will rain down bread from heaven for you. Each day the people are to go out and gather enough for that day. In this way I will test whether or not they will follow My instructions.

This manna episode reinforces the importance of the Sabbath rest as part of God's covenant with Israel. The Sabbath was a day of rest, a holy day set apart for God. The people’s failure to observe the Sabbath properly, as seen in their disobedience in manna collection, serves as a lesson about trusting God and following His instructions.

Indeed, and Christ our True God instructed us to pray without ceasing, thus worship on all days is equally important. The meaning of the Sabbath is expressed today as Christ having made man in His image reposes in the tomb before rising again on the First Day, the Lord’s Day, the Day of Resurrection.

 

[A.W.B.]

I have no idea if you are a hit and run on this thread, but I will do my best to help you understand some of the wrong things you have written. I pray that you believe Paul was Jesus's ambassador. Some ignore his writings because the writings tell us we are not under the commands of the old covenant and for some reason they believe we are under many of the rituals of that covenant. First of all, that covenant was made exclusively for Israel. No other nation was ever given the ritual commands. If the Ten Commandments were cancelled it would only concern the Jews. Paul writes that indeed the Ten were cancelled. Read this:
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. 2Cor3

Paul called the Ten the ministry of death, why, because they could only condemn those who broke them, they had no power to save. God did not leave mankind without guidance, Paul states in those verses that the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is now our guide.

They never did apply to Gentiles my friend. Where did you get such an idea? You are teaching heresy.

Absolutely none of those referenced verses tell us that God's commands are the Ten commandments. Yes, we are to keep God's commands and 1Jn 3: 19-24 explains what His commands for all mankind are. Read those verses in post #20 and get the truth.

Oh, so we have to abide by what Messianic believers teach, or we are disobedient and if we don't, we are not following God's will. I find that insulting. I have to observe feast days, abstain from certain foods and observe the weekly Sabbath and if I don't do all those things I presume I will be lost?

Maybe you do not understand that Jesus came to this Earth to a group of people that were under the Laws of the old covenant. He too was born under those Laws and kept them, taught them and until His death on the Cross was subject to them. Gentiles were not under those ritual laws ( laws dealing with morality are forever and all mankind are to keep them.) Jesus said He kept all those laws and asks us to keep His laws Read it in Jn15:9-14

40,000 denominations and the Messianic movement is one of them that believe claim they have the truth.

Do you believe Jesus is God? We are Jesus' friends if we love others as He loves us. Jn15:9-14. We belong to the TRUTH if we believe in God and love others as Jesus taught us to do. 1jn3:19-24 The Good News is so simple that a child can understand. All the laws that Israel was subject some churches today try to impose on their flocks makes it hard for even adults to grasp and try to keep. It is no wonder the dropout rate in those churches is so great

Thank you for your comments and time! No, I am not a hit and run kind of guy, but I do leave threads that are non-productive.

Almost everyone I have talked with combine the Ten Commandments with the Law so that was the emphases in my posts. I am glad you agree that the Ten are for everyone. The rest of the laws are instructions on how to establish and observe the requirements of the Ten. For example, Exactly how does one demonstrate their love of God? How do we keep the Commandments in a way that God finds our actions acceptable? That is where the Law comes in. Remember that is was not the Law that was nailed to the cross, it was the ordnances of the Law that were held against us. The judgments and punishment which Jesus took upon Himself. What comes to mind is the judgment of Christ when he will sent away those who did marvelous works for the kingdom, and who were self righteous (Matt 7:23) Oh, do I profess to keep all of the laws of the Old Covenant? Of course not! I don't keep the Levitical laws - I am not a Levy nor do I serve God as a priest in the Temple. Nor do I keep the laws that are directed to women and children. Do I keep the food laws? Some I do, after all those laws are healthy eating!

Again, thank you for your insights, comments and time invested.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Indeed, and Christ our True God instructed us to pray without ceasing, thus worship on all days is equally important. The meaning of the Sabbath is expressed today as Christ having made man in His image reposes in the tomb before rising again on the First Day, the Lord’s Day, the Day of Resurrection.

I know the sabbath day time and signification was changed for some denominations. But for you personally, If I remember correctly, you do honour both days, this is perfect. to follow the commandments is truly commendable.

Blessings

 

[guevaraj]

Paul states in those verses that the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is now our guide.

Brother, that's not what Paul is telling us! Paul tells us that Jesus is the "Spirit," superior to the "letters engraved in stone," the Ten Commandments, which Judaism disobeys by adding human traditions that "cancel" the Ten Commandments' purpose of eliminating the sin that leads to death.

We are confident of all this because of our great trust in God through Christ. It is not that we think we are qualified to do anything on our own (circumcision is no longer done by humans). Our qualification comes from God (Jesus does the circumcision for us by removing Judaism's human traditions that cancel the Ten Commandments' removal of sin). He has enabled us to be ministers of his new covenant (Jesus as superior to the Ten Commandments). This is a covenant not of the letter (Ten Commandments), but of the Spirit (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to image as in a mirror and not the Holy Spirit used as an excuse to disobey the Ten Commandments when Jesus obeyed them). The letter ends in death (sabotaged by Judaism to not remove sin); but the Spirit gives life (Jesus' circumcision of Judaism's disobedience for us to obey completely the Ten Commandments). The old way, with letters etched in stone (Ten Commandments), led to death (sabotaged by Judaism to not remove sin), though it began with such glory (leading to righteousness) that the people of Israel could not bear to look at Moses’ face. For his face shone with the glory of God (which is His righteousness expressed in the Ten Commandments), even though the brightness was already fading away (Judaism's disobedience to the Ten Commandments). Shouldn’t we expect far greater glory under the new way (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to image as in a mirror who obeyed completely the Ten Commandments for us to do likewise), now that the Holy (added by the translators) Spirit (not the Holy Spirit but Jesus as the model "Spirit" to image as in a mirror) gives life? If the old way, which brings condemnation (Judaism teaching disobedience to the Ten Commandments by canceling them with human traditions), was glorious (leading to righteousness), how much more glorious is the new way, which makes us right with God (removes sin)! In fact, that first glory was not glorious at all compared with the overwhelming glory of the new way. So if the old way, which has been replaced, was glorious (led to righteousness), how much more glorious is the new, which remains forever! Since this new way (of imaging as in a mirror the model "Spirit" of Jesus, rather than Judaism's teachings of disobedience) gives us such confidence, we can be very bold (learning to use God's name properly, which Judaism does not). We are not like Moses, who put a veil over his face so the people of Israel would not see the glory (of God's righteousness), even though it was destined to fade away (by Judaism's growing disobedience to the Ten Commandments). But the people’s minds were hardened (to disobey the Ten Commandments), and to this day whenever the old covenant is being read, the same veil covers their minds so they cannot understand the truth (of their disobedience by canceling God's Commandments with their own human traditions). And this veil can be removed only by believing in Christ (as the circumciser of Judaism's human traditions that cancel the Ten Commandments purpose to remove sin). Yes, even today when they read Moses’ writings, their hearts are covered with that veil, and they do not understand (they disobey the Ten Commandments by canceling them with human traditions). But whenever someone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. For the Lord is the Spirit (Jesus is the model "Spirit" to image as in a mirror who obeyed the Ten Commandments as our example and Paul is not referring to the Holy Spirit as an excuse to disobey the Ten Commandments), and wherever the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom (from sin and not from God's Ten Commandments). So all of us who have had that veil removed can see and reflect the glory of the Lord (in obeying completely the Ten Commandments by removing Judaism's disobedience). And the Lord—who is the Spirit (Jesus is the model "Spirit" Paul is telling us to image as in a mirror and not the Holy Spirit, whose job is to tell us things through prophets and remind us of Jesus as the model "Spirit" to image as in a mirror)—makes us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image. (2 Corinthians 3:4-18 NLT fixed and overlaid with commentary)​

Jesus is the one who circumcises us from Judaism's teaching of these human traditions that cancel the elimination of sin that the Ten Commandments do when obeyed.

When you came to Christ, you were “circumcised,” but not by a physical procedure/human hands. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision—the cutting away of your sinful nature. For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead. (Colossians 2:11-12 NLT fixed)​

Jesus is our "Spirit" role model of obedience superior to Judaism's teaching of disobedience to the Ten Commandments.

Jesus replied, “You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you, for he wrote, ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship is a farce, for they teach man-made ideas as commandments from God.’ For you ignore God’s law(nomos)/commandment(entolé) and substitute your own tradition.” Then he said, “You skillfully sidestep God’s law(nomos)/commandment(entolé) in order to hold on to your own tradition. For instance, Moses gave you this law(nomos)/commandment(entolé) from God: ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and ‘Anyone who speaks disrespectfully of father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say it is all right for people to say to their parents, ‘Sorry, I can’t help you. For I have vowed to give to God what I would have given to you.’ In this way, you let them disregard their needy parents. And so you cancel the word of God in order to hand down your own tradition. And this is only one example among many others.” (Mark 7:6-13 NLT fixed)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Clare73]

I do not recall discussing food laws, perhaps you confuse me with someone else?

I am responding to post #15 where you stated the food laws were for health purposes.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

I am responding to post #15 where you stated the food laws were for health purposes.

The food laws had many purposes I do believe they also had to do with preventing disease.

Leviticus 11 specifies clean and unclean animals, and these dietary restrictions may have had a beneficial effect on the health of the Israelites by avoiding certain animals that could have posed health risks in the ancient world.

would you try to eat carrion eating birds like a vulture? remember these laws were given to an oppressed people with little knowledge, It is logical to think God made a list of clean and unclean animals, many animals carry diseases that can be transferred to Humans. So yes I do believe it was also to prevent disease for the israelites that erred 40 years in the desert!

 

[Clare73]

The food laws had many purposes I do believe they also had to do with preventing disease.

Leviticus 11 specifies clean and unclean animals,

The animals were clean food (Ge 9:3) until Lev 11, when they were made ceremonially unclean, and then made clean again in the NT (Ro 14:14).

It's not about health.

 

[The Liturgist]

I know the sabbath day time and signification was changed for some denominations. But for you personally, If I remember correctly, you do honour both days, this is perfect. to follow the commandments is truly commendable.

Blessings

I do indeed honor both days and I appreciate sincerely your appreciation of that. God bless you.

 

[The Liturgist]

Brother, that's not what Paul is telling us! Paul tells us that Jesus is the "Spirit,"

The Spirit being referred to is the third person of the Holy Trinity, the Holy Spirit, our Helper and Paraclete (Matthew 28:19) whose descent on the Apostles is described in Luke 1. Since Jesus Christ is the God the Son and Word incarnate (John 1:1-14) it would be confusing to refer to Him as the Spirit, when the Spirit is used consistently by the Apostles to refer to He who caused the Blessed Virgin Mary to conceive our Lord and who was sent by our Lord, and who together with our Lord is of one essence with the Father.

 

[The Liturgist]

would you try to eat carrion eating birds like a vulture?

No, but to be fair there are numerous examples of non-kosher species who are entirely safe to eat. Ostriches, for example, and venison, and various other fowl.

Also Islam inherited Judaism’s ritual purity concept including fear of swine. When the swine flu outbreak happened around 2010 the Egyptian government slaughtered the swine herds that the Copts of Muqattam, an impoverished suburb where many of the Christians of Cairo have been forced to move, which is surrounded by landfills, depended on for food, which caused a famine. The Copts have no alternative source of food since the people of Muqattam are for the most part destitute and are unable to afford those food items which are Halal, which are analogous to those which are Kosher. And the Egyptian government did this slaughtering despite the fact that the swine herds were not infected, for fear they might be. This was in the last days of the reign of President Mubarak before Muhammed Morsi was elected President and further increased persecution, before being ousted and replaced by the current military dictator Sisi, who has been unable or unwilling to prevent repeated acts of terrorism against the Coptic Orthodox Christians, who by the way will be spending all of tomorrow and the early hours of Sunday in church commemorating the death and resurrection of Christ our True God.

 

[guevaraj]

it would be confusing to refer to Him as the Spirit

Brother, what is expected of us to understand Paul's message in the following passage?

Because of that experience, we have even greater confidence in the message proclaimed by the prophets. You must pay close attention to what they wrote, for their words are like a lamp shining in a dark place—until the Day dawns, and Christ the Morning Star shines in your hearts. Above all, you must realize that no prophecy in Scripture ever came from the prophet’s own understanding, or from human initiative. No, those prophets were moved by the Holy Spirit, and they spoke from God. (2 Peter 1:19-21 NLT)​

Given the above instructions, can we limit the way Paul speaks to us by preventing him from defining his own use of the word "Spirit," or are we expected to pay attention to his entire message as Paul explains to us in context what he means by his use of the word "Spirit"? In the following context, Paul explains to us what he means by his use of the word "Spirit" in replacing the Ten Commandments with Jesus as the "Spirit" superior to what is written in stone, Jesus modeling full obedience to the Ten Commandments.

But whenever someone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. For the Lord (Jesus) is the Spirit (Jesus), and wherever the Spirit of the Lord is (us modeling Jesus' obedience), there is freedom (from sin). So all of us who have had that veil (Judaism's disobedience) removed can see and reflect the glory of the Lord (full obedience to the Ten Commandments). And the Lord (Jesus)—who is the Spirit (Jesus)—makes us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image (us modeling Jesus' obedience). (2 Corinthians 3:16-18 NLT overlaid with commentary)​

Here is Jesus "circumcising" us from the disobedience of Judaism through its added human traditions that "cancel" the elimination of sin in the Ten Commandments.

Jesus replied, “You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you, for he wrote, ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship is a farce, for they teach man-made ideas as commandments from God.’ For you ignore God’s law(nomos)/commandment(entolé) and substitute your own tradition.” Then he said, “You skillfully sidestep God’s law(nomos)/commandment(entolé) in order to hold on to your own tradition. For instance, Moses gave you this law(nomos)/commandment(entolé) from God: ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and ‘Anyone who speaks disrespectfully of father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say it is all right for people to say to their parents, ‘Sorry, I can’t help you. For I have vowed to give to God what I would have given to you.’ In this way, you let them disregard their needy parents. And so you cancel the word of God in order to hand down your own tradition. And this is only one example among many others.” (Mark 7:6-13 NLT fixed)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[The Liturgist]

Brother, what is expected of us to understand Paul's message in the following passage?

Because of that experience, we have even greater confidence in the message proclaimed by the prophets. You must pay close attention to what they wrote, for their words are like a lamp shining in a dark place—until the Day dawns, and Christ the Morning Star shines in your hearts. Above all, you must realize that no prophecy in Scripture ever came from the prophet’s own understanding, or from human initiative. No, those prophets were moved by the Holy Spirit, and they spoke from God. (2 Peter 1:19-21 NLT)​

Given the above instructions, can we limit the way Paul speaks to us by preventing him from defining his own use of the word "Spirit," or are we expected to pay attention to his entire message as Paul explains to us in context what he means by his use of the word "Spirit"? In the following context, Paul explains to us what he means by his use of the word "Spirit" in replacing the Ten Commandments with Jesus as the "Spirit" superior to what is written in stone, Jesus modeling full obedience to the Ten Commandments.

But whenever someone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. For the Lord (Jesus) is the Spirit (Jesus), and wherever the Spirit of the Lord is (us modeling Jesus' obedience), there is freedom (from sin). So all of us who have had that veil (Judaism's disobedience) removed can see and reflect the glory of the Lord (full obedience to the Ten Commandments). And the Lord (Jesus)—who is the Spirit (Jesus)—makes us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image (us modeling Jesus' obedience). (2 Corinthians 3:16-18 NLT overlaid with commentary)​

Here is Jesus "circumcising" us from the disobedience of Judaism through its added human traditions that "cancel" the elimination of sin in the Ten Commandments.

Jesus replied, “You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you, for he wrote, ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship is a farce, for they teach man-made ideas as commandments from God.’ For you ignore God’s law(nomos)/commandment(entolé) and substitute your own tradition.” Then he said, “You skillfully sidestep God’s law(nomos)/commandment(entolé) in order to hold on to your own tradition. For instance, Moses gave you this law(nomos)/commandment(entolé) from God: ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and ‘Anyone who speaks disrespectfully of father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say it is all right for people to say to their parents, ‘Sorry, I can’t help you. For I have vowed to give to God what I would have given to you.’ In this way, you let them disregard their needy parents. And so you cancel the word of God in order to hand down your own tradition. And this is only one example among many others.” (Mark 7:6-13 NLT fixed)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Hod do you reconcile any of that with the Nicene Creed?

 

[guevaraj]

Hod do you reconcile any of that with the Nicene Creed?

Brother, what is clear is that all three are “Spirit.”

Jesus replied, “Believe me, dear woman, the time is coming when it will no longer matter whether you worship the Father on this mountain or in Jerusalem. You Samaritans know very little about the one you worship, while we Jews know all about him, for salvation comes through the Jews. But the time is coming—indeed it’s here now—when true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth. The Father is looking for those who will worship him that way. For God is Spirit, so those who worship him must worship in spirit and in truth.” (John 4:21-24 NLT)​

When Paul uses the word "Spirit" alone, translators should not force him to refer to the Holy Spirit by adding the word "holy" before "Spirit," since this imposition of the Holy Spirit's identity is not found in God's original message, as the prophets guarantee. Paul tells us in context that he refers to Jesus as the "Spirit" in the following passage.

But whenever someone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. For the Lord (Jesus) is the Spirit (Jesus), and wherever the Spirit of the Lord is (us modeling Jesus' obedience), there is freedom (from sin). So all of us who have had that veil (Judaism's disobedience) removed can see and reflect the glory of the Lord (full obedience to the Ten Commandments). And the Lord (Jesus)—who is the Spirit (Jesus)—makes us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image (us modeling Jesus' obedience). (2 Corinthians 3:16-18 NLT overlaid with commentary)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge