Israel-Hamas Thread II

[essentialsaltes]

Senior Hamas official killed in targeted strike on Gaza hospital​

The Hamas-run Gaza health ministry said the strike hit the surgery department at the hospital, and a Hamas source told AFP that “Barhoum was receiving treatment after sustaining critical injuries in an airstrike targeting his home in Khan Younis at dawn last Tuesday.”

 

[essentialsaltes]

Why protesters in Gaza want Hamas out after more than a year of war​

“Leave us Hamas, we want to live freely,” a crowd could be heard chanting at a demonstration in Beit Lahia in northern Gaza on Wednesday.

Protests in Gaza calling for an end to the war with Israel and for Hamas' ouster gathered momentum Wednesday, with hundreds of demonstrators for a second day displaying rare dissent against the militant group that has run the Palestinian enclave for nearly two decades.

Why now?​

[In part because previous dissent has been suppressed by Hamas.]

It was not immediately clear who organized the protests or how many joined them with the intention of rallying against Hamas.

But some demonstrators told NBC News' crew that they had reached the limit of their suffering and blamed Hamas for failing to bring an end to the war.

"We came out to demand that Hamas stop the war and hand the ruling to any merciful body so that God may have mercy upon us," one man, Eyad Gendia, told NBC News at Wednesday's protest in the Shujaiya neighborhood of eastern Gaza City.

"The impact of the war is that we are sleeping in the streets ... We have lost all of our children," he said.

Hamas' popularity in Gaza is hard to gauge, due to fears over speaking out and the difficulties of conducting polling during a war. But a poll released in September by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research, a think tank based in the occupied West Bank, found support for Hamas in the Gaza Strip to be at 35%, compared to 38% three months before.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Why protesters in Gaza want Hamas out after more than a year of war​

“Leave us Hamas, we want to live freely,” a crowd could be heard chanting at a demonstration in Beit Lahia in northern Gaza on Wednesday.

Protests in Gaza calling for an end to the war with Israel and for Hamas' ouster gathered momentum Wednesday, with hundreds of demonstrators for a second day displaying rare dissent against the militant group that has run the Palestinian enclave for nearly two decades.

Why now?​

[In part because previous dissent has been suppressed by Hamas.]

It was not immediately clear who organized the protests or how many joined them with the intention of rallying against Hamas.

But some demonstrators told NBC News' crew that they had reached the limit of their suffering and blamed Hamas for failing to bring an end to the war.

"We came out to demand that Hamas stop the war and hand the ruling to any merciful body so that God may have mercy upon us," one man, Eyad Gendia, told NBC News at Wednesday's protest in the Shujaiya neighborhood of eastern Gaza City.

"The impact of the war is that we are sleeping in the streets ... We have lost all of our children," he said.

Hamas' popularity in Gaza is hard to gauge, due to fears over speaking out and the difficulties of conducting polling during a war. But a poll released in September by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research, a think tank based in the occupied West Bank, found support for Hamas in the Gaza Strip to be at 35%, compared to 38% three months before.

Everyone has a breaking point, and perhaps now is that point for the Palestinians. If they're collectively open to a revolt against Hamas and terror, then I think that they are showing that they may be worthy of forgiveness, if it proves true.

...This is the *right* direction! This is what needed to happen all along.

I'd be interested in knowing what their goals are for the future, if they would be so forthcoming.

 

[essentialsaltes]

...This is the *right* direction! This is what needed to happen all along.

Maybe your gut was wrong after all.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Maybe your gut was wrong after all.

Haha, maybe. But the best thing about my gut, is that it changes as the information changes, or as circumstances change.

 

[tampasteve]

I'd be interested in knowing what their goals are for the future,

To kill as many Jews as possible.

 

[Landon Caeli]

To kill as many Jews as possible.

If that's the case, then any potential for forgiveness, from intelligent and reasonable people, should be instantly withdrawn.

 

[FreeinChrist]

ADVISOR HAT


This thread is closed for review. ​

 

[linux.poet]

MOD HAT ON​

This thread has had a small cleanup of posts that question the Christian faith of a forum member. Saying that members you disagree with aren't Christian isn't allowed by the rules.​

Thread is being reopened.​

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[High Fidelity]

This whole war is a mess.

Both sides are just as bad at this point, but I don’t really know what can be done differently.

Hamas takes any respite as a means of rebuilding and reforming, and Israel takes any attack or provocation as a green light to unleash hell.

I think it’s fair to say that coexistence just doesn’t seem possible at this point. Even with Hamas removed from power, there’s still the issue of settlers being a force and law unto themselves, not to mention the ingrained hatred for Israel that many Palestinians are raised on.

It’s worth remembering in the wake of the 7th October attack, plenty of videos displayed the attitude and behaviour of civilians towards deceased or captured Israelis, Jews and non-Jews alike. Slapping the stripped corpse of a Jewish woman, spitting on her as she was paraded in the back of a truck through the streets. I’ll never forget that jubilation amongst the general public. So yeah, Hamas aren’t the only problem.

Who knows what will happen. Neighbouring countries don’t want them because of all the issues that have happened in the past when they bit the hand that fed them.

Either way hopefully it ends soon, because in all of this there will be innocent people being killed, regardless of race, religion etc.

 

[Desk trauma]

Even with Hamas removed from power, there’s still the issue of settlers being a force and law unto themselves,

The settler issue has nothing to do with Hamas or Gaza as they don’t overlap. All settlements were removed from Gaza and unless Israel starts new ones in the rubble that’s the one problem Gaza does not have to contend with.

 

[High Fidelity]

The settler issue has nothing to do with Hamas or Gaza as they don’t overlap. All settlements were removed from Gaza and unless Israel starts new ones in the rubble that’s the one problem Gaza does not have to contend with.

I think the concern will be that even if agreements are reached and official borders drawn, will they be respected?

 

[Desk trauma]

I think the concern will be that even if agreements are reached and official borders drawn, will they be respected?

No but again, unless they start building settlements in the rubble Gaza remains the only Palestinian area without Jewish settlements among its issues.

 

[JosephZ]

Israel is not going to be able to destroy Hamas militarily... The current approach is only going to exacerbate long-standing grievances between the Palestinians and Israel, and until those grievances are addressed, terrorist attacks against Israel will continue. With every Palestinian child, brother, sister, father, mother, or grandparent that is killed by Israeli forces, another potential terrorist is born.

It's called counterinsurgency mathematics, and it has been proven to be true in multiple theaters of war over the past few decades and it's happening in Gaza today.

Before October 7, 2023, Hamas was estimated to have between 20,000 and 30,000 combatants.

Hamas has replenished its military ranks and now commands 40,000 combatants.

Israeli defense officials estimated that 700,000 Gazans support Hamas, 600,000 support Fatah, and 650,000 do not support any organization. They say Hamas has succeeded in filling its military ranks, recruiting new young troops and now has 40,000 combatants.

They say Hamas could now focus on producing improvised explosive devices to be set off against troops on streets and in buildings. The officials also believe Hamas can now produce arms and has established low-quality manufacturing facilities and limited rocket-producing abilities.

The Israeli defense establishment said that there is pressure, applied especially by clans, to oust Hamas from the Gaza Strip. They do not think, however, that it is strong enough to bring about regime change.

 

[essentialsaltes]

‘If I die, I want a loud death’: Gaza photojournalist killed by Israeli airstrike​

Fatima Hassouna, who had been documenting war in Gaza for 18 months and was subject of new documentary, killed along with 10 members of her family

On Wednesday, just days before her wedding, 25-year-old Hassouna was killed in an Israeli airstrike that hit her home in northern Gaza. Ten members of her family, including her pregnant sister, were also killed.

The Israeli military said it had been a targeted strike on a Hamas member involved in attacks on Israeli soldiers and civilians.
https://www.theguardian.com/global-...ho-have-paid-a-price-for-reporting-on-the-war
Twenty-four hours before she was killed, it was announced that a documentary focusing on Hassouna’s life in Gaza since the Israeli offensive began would be debuted at a French independent film festival that runs parallel to Cannes.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Malnutrition in Gaza worsens as Israeli blockade of supplies passes 50-day mark​

People in Gaza face a crisis of starvation, disease and despair, UN agency says.

Israeli authorities have blocked supplies -- including food, medicine and fuel -- from entering the Gaza Strip for more than 50 days.

"In February, there were 2,027 children admitted for acute malnutrition. In March, that number jumped to 3,669. This is an incredible increase," she said. "Families are going hungry, suffering to provide food for their children. The prices of products have doubled, and many key types of food have disappeared from markets. We are extremely concerned," Bolline added.

The blockade has prevented critical medical supplies and fuel to power hospital generators from entering Gaza while the Israel Defense Forces have continued bombing areas across the strip since the collapse of the ceasefire in mid-March.

UNRWA insists that "nothing can justify the collective punishment of the Palestinian people" and calls for a renewed ceasefire, the dignified release of the remaining hostages, and unimpeded access for humanitarian and commercial supplies.

Netanyahu and his government say the blockade is part of a strategy to put pressure on Hamas to release the remaining hostages being held in Gaza.

Editorial comment: this is monstrous. It's gone from 'open air prison' to 'open air prison where we don't feed the inmates (and bulldozed their orchards and farms)'.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Gaza territory shrinks drastically as Israel seizes huge swaths of land​

More than half of the Gaza Strip is no longer accessible to Palestinians as Israel's military takes over larger areas of the territory and absorbs them into what it calls security zones along all of the territory's borders.

Israel's takeover of southern Gaza alters its map​

In a visit to Rafah last week, Defense Minister Israel Katz told soldiers the entire southern swath would be turned into a buffer zone.

"All of Rafah will be evacuated and there will be a security zone," Katz said in remarks confirmed by his office to NPR. "This is what we are doing now."

Maps published by the Israeli military show a buffer zone in Rafah that constitutes a fifth of Gaza's territory. Israel's displacement of people from the south is one of the largest territorial evacuation orders issued by the military in 18 months of war.

Israeli newspaper Haaretz notes this expansive zone being carved out in southern Gaza covers an area that's roughly 29 square miles. The newspaper reports Israeli officials have not yet decided whether the entire area will be designated a buffer zone that's off-limits to civilians, like other parts of Gaza, or whether it will be fully leveled to the ground with the entire city of Rafah wiped out.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Israeli security cabinet approves plan to occupy parts of Gaza, source says​

The plan includes the occupation of more parts of Gaza paving the way for a full occupation of the strip, plus "moving" Palestinians to the south of Gaza, the source said. It also approves the "possibility" of allowing humanitarian aid into Gaza

The blueprint differs from its predecessor in that the Israel Defense Forces "is moving from the method of raids to the occupation of the territories and remaining in them," the source said.

The government [seeks] "to enable the voluntary departure of Gazans" from the strip, the source said -- a proposal that Palestinian and human rights groups have equated to ethnic cleansing.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Just to balance things up on this thread, here is a little offering from another perspective.

Frankly in this world of wickedness, no one is innocent and there is fault on all sides.

Sympathy needs to be with all innocents in the mess.

Below is a link to follow and a summary of the content.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-fatality-figures-for-gaza-war-are-clear-disinformation-according-to-new-study/

The percentage of women and children killed in Gaza during the course of Israel’s war against Hamas following the October 7 atrocities is far lower than claimed by the terror group’s media propaganda agency, according to a new study.

The study found that despite claims by Hamas’s Government Media Office that some 70 percent of fatalities were women and children, figures provided by the Gaza Ministry of Health showed the real rate to be 51%.

The new paper, published by professors Lewi Stone and Gregory Rose, argues that the relatively lower rate of women and children fatalities, combined with the high percentage of women and children in the general Gaza population, demonstrates that the IDF has taken systematic measures to avoid civilian casualties.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Israeli security cabinet approves plan to occupy parts of Gaza, source says​

The plan includes the occupation of more parts of Gaza paving the way for a full occupation of the strip, plus "moving" Palestinians to the south of Gaza, the source said.

Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich says that within half a year the Gazan population will be “concentrated” in a narrow strip of land between the border with Egypt and the Morag Corridor running the width of Gaza between Khan Younis and the border city of Rafah.

“In another six months Hamas won’t exist as a functioning entity… The population of Gaza will be concentrated from the Morag Corridor southwards. The rest of the Strip will be empty.”

He adds that Gaza will “totally destroyed,” that the entire territory north of the Morag Corridor will be “empty,” and that in six months Hamas will not be a functioning entity.