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Is it possible to lose salvation?

JesusFollowerForever

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John 5:24 “He that hears my Word and believes on Him that sent me has everlasting life and, therefore, shall not come into judgment but is passed from death unto life.”
If you believe, you have everlasting life
“And shall not come into judgment,” “is passed from death unto life.”
Does it say you have to live a certain way to come to everlasting life? No.

If you believe...Every true believer in Christ has been judged in Christ on the cross. God cannot judge His people in any way because His people have already been judged in Jesus. So you are saying God judged me in Christ and then changed His mind and is going to judge me again for something that's been judged in Christ already?

Christ satisfied God's wrath on the cross for the elect of God. When Christ drank the cup of God’s wrath He drank it to the dregs. There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus and that means on the final day and every day until then. God is never judging you for your sin if you are in Christ. So how can I lose my salvation and go to hell when Christ fully satisfied God's wrath for me? Christ satisfied God's wrath but then I'm going to suffer God's wrath for eternity? See the problem you are having?

In John 6, verse 37, “All that the Father giveth me shall come to me.” In other words, all those that God designs sovereignly to redeem will come to Christ. Very simple statement. And from the human viewpoint, that should not restrain any man because “him that cometh to me, I will in no wise cast out.”

In other words, only those whom the Father draws will come, and only those will come whom the Father draws. So there is a perfect meeting. “For I came down from heaven not to do mine own will but the will of Him that sent me, and this is the Father’s will who sent me, that out of all that He hath given me, I should lose” - how many? - “none.”

“Of all that the Father gives me, I shall lose nothing, but raise him up again at the last day.” In other words, all those chosen unto salvation, all those who affirm that salvation by coming to Jesus Christ, will be raised up in the last day. There’s no loss, you see. Nobody escapes, nobody’s lost, nobody falls through the cracks. And verse 40 sums it up, “And this is the will of Him that sent me, that every one who sees the Son” - and that is with the eye of faith, the eye of true spiritual perception - “and believes on Him may have everlasting life.” Saying salvation can be lost contradicts Jesus.

Romans 8:1 says, “There is, therefore, now no judgment” - there is no judgment, no final judgment, no ultimate condemnation - “to them who are in Christ Jesus.” No judgment to them in Christ Jesus.

God chose people to salvation. He will bring them to full conformity to Christlikeness. Nobody falls in the cracks. Nobody is lost. They will all be brought to that. “For whom He did predestinate, them He also called. And whom He called, them He also justified. And whom He justified, them He also glorified.” Do you see any loss there? Whoever is called, whoever is predestined, whoever is redeemed, whoever is justified, whoever is sanctified is glorified. No loss.


Paul only taught what the Holy Spirit told Him. He was not writing according His own accord. He never contradicted Christ in his writing. Just because I quote Paul, does not mean I follow Paul.


I did not mean just you. But all of us. We are all filthy sinners incable to save ourselves. We are dead in our sins, living in bondage to sin. It is God in His mercy who saves, that's it.
Jesus says clearly we will be judged we should take this seriously and I am certain God does not change, same with Christ since they are one, what Jesus our Lord said is absolutely certain and true. You have to chose who to believe. Yes we do have a choice in all things.

Remember what Paul says is sometimes difficult to understand it is true, so in case of discrepancy rely completely on Christ he will see you through your journey, Jesus said And I believe this as I have experienced it myself;

Mat 28:20 and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
 
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JesusFollowerForever

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So which verse that you posted states believers will have their name blotted out of the book of life. For not repenting and being an overcomer.
All of them, they mean the same thing.
 
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d taylor

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All of them, they mean the same thing.
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Your theology is to liberal, a verse does not have to actually say what you are saying will happen to believers who do not overcome. Nothing further to discuss.
 
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JesusFollowerForever

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Your theology is to liberal, a verse does not have to actually say what you are saying will happen to believers who do not overcome. Nothing further to discuss.
Right, my theology is directly from the bible and nothing else I do believe what God and Jesus said in full and I have no doubt.
 
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Dan Perez

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Jesus had a lot to say about and this taught that the path to eternal life is narrow and that few find it. In Matthew 7:13-14, He said;
"Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it."
This shows that salvation is not guaranteed for everyone, and only those who stay faithful and follow His teachings will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

Jesus also warned that some would hear the word and believe for a while, but eventually fall away. In the Parable of the Sower, He explained;
"But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles." (Matthew 13:20-21).​
This illustrates that some will start their walk with God but will not persevere when faced with trials or temptations.

In John 15:6, Jesus made it even clearer, saying;
"If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned."
Here, Jesus compares Himself to a vine and believers as branches. A branch must remain connected to the vine to stay alive and bear fruit. If a person disconnects from Christ through disobedience or unbelief, they wither spiritually and face eternal judgment.


The original apostles also confirmed this truth. Peter warned in 2 Peter 2:20-21;
"For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them."
This shows that a person who was once saved and returns to sin is in a worse condition than before they knew the truth.

James also affirmed this truth when he said;
"Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins."
(James 5:19-20).​
This verse reveals that a believer can wander away from the truth and face spiritual death unless they repent and return to God.

The Bible does provide examples of those who lost their salvation. Judas Iscariot was one of the twelve apostles chosen by Jesus, yet he betrayed the Lord for thirty pieces of silver. Jesus Himself said about Judas;
"It would have been good for that man if he had not been born." (Matthew 26:24).​
This shows that Judas was once in the faith but fell away and was lost.​

Another example is Balaam, a prophet who once heard from God but later led Israel into sin for personal gain. Peter referred to him, saying,
"They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor." (2 Peter 2:15). King Saul is yet another example; he was chosen and anointed by God but later disobeyed and rebelled, and the Spirit of God departed from him (1 Samuel 16:14)​

Jesus' words make it clear that salvation is not a one-time event but requires endurance and faithfulness until the end. As He said in Matthew 24:13, "But he who endures to the end shall be saved." Therefore, those who abide in Christ, obey His commandments, and remain faithful will receive eternal life. However, those who turn away from Him and return to sin risk losing their salvation and facing eternal separation from God.
And Matt 7:13 and it seem that MANY just love the WIDE GATE >

And Pro 14:2 really nails it right !!

Pro 14:12 says There is a way that seems RIGHT to a man , but the WAY are b bb the ways of DEATH, and this the world !!

AND this what Happened to Israel , is who it is taking ABOUT , and NOT to those of TODAY

Yes or NO ?/

dan p
 
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Dan Perez

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There is the cross and there are the words and teachings of Jesus, what he did for us gives access to eternal life but it if for us to know what to do next, simply believing is not enough, we have a part to play, Jesus explained what to do to have eternal life simply read the gospels and learn it, everything he did and asked us to do is for our benefit, because he loves us with a love so great that he gave his life for us, if we Love Him we should show it and comply, it is the least we can do.

The first part after believing, is doing what he asked us to do.

Just remember that is if Jesus who Has all authority in heaven and on earth that will judge us all, it is not Paul who you obviously follow.

I am not against discussing further but if you accuse me again or wrong doing and call me a filthy sinner and adding to the cross, I will stop responding.
Maybe they do not believe Eph 1:4 , Just as He chose us for HIMSELF in him before the OVERTHROW of the World

for us to be holy with out blemish BEFORE // PRO , Him in love !!

dan p
 
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Ivan Hlavanda

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Jesus says clearly we will be judged we should take this seriously and I am certain God does not change, same with Christ since they are one, what Jesus our Lord said is absolutely certain and true. You have to chose who to believe. Yes we do have a choice in all things.
Christians have been judged in Christ. God isn't going to judge us for our sins again, because they have been judged in Christ.

Christ has reconciled Christians to God. He satisfied God's wrath on the cross for all the true believers. There is no more wrath for those who are in Christ. His work on the cross was perfect, not partial. It is finished, not partly finished. This is something all of you who preach that salvation can be lost, fail to consider. You all fail to answer how can a Christian suffer God's wrath when Christ has satisfied God's wrath for His people. It is done.

What you are referring to is a different type of judgement. Not the one that determines whether we lived a good enough live for our salvation, because we did not, do not and never will. But Christ did. What you are referring to is believers standing before the Judgment Seat of Christ where our works will be judged and rewards will be given. And not salvation will be lost.

The believer need never fear he will lose his salvation. He cannot. The Bible is absolutely clear about that. Jesus said, “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand” John 10:27–29. Paul is equally clear. “Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? … For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord” Rom. 8:35, 38–39. “He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus” Phil. 1:6. We are “to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven,” and we “are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time” 1 Pet. 1:4–5. If the power of God cannot keep us, nothing is dependable or trustworthy or worth believing in. A Christian has no reason at any point in his life to believe that his salvation is or can be lost. If by Christ’s death we can be saved, certainly by His life of power and intercession we can be kept saved Rom. 5:10.

According to Scripture, people who profess to know Christ at one time but later deny Him were never really saved to begin with. First John 2:19 says, "They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, in order that it might be shown that they all are not of us."

A true believer will never depart from the faith Philippians 1:6, so those who do so are revealing that they were never truly saved John 8:31; Hebrews 3:14.

Even true Christians can sin, however, and because of that may lack assurance of salvation Psalm 51:12. A failure to grow spiritually can also rob us of the confidence that we are God's children 2 Peter 1:9. But anyone indwelt by the Holy Spirit is secure eternally, because He is the "deposit guaranteeing our inheritance" Ephesians 1:14.
 
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Johan2222

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If you are a born again Christian, that means Christ has satisfied God's wrath on the cross for you. There no longer remains wrath, so how can a Christian suffer God's wrath when Christ has satisfied God wrath? All of you who preach that salvation can be lost fail to address this, because you can't.
I know I cannot force a blind man to see so I am not posting this for you.

I am posting this for those who you are leading into captivity with your heresy.

Hebrews 10:26-29 NKJV
For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, [27] but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. [28] Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. [29] Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?

What I will post for you however is this.

Titus 3:10-11 KJV
A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; [11] Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.
 
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Wansvic

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None of us live a perfectly sinless life. You do not lose your salvation the moment you sin. If you are a born again, Christ blood washed Christian, then your sins have been atoned for on the cross. Christ paid in full, not partially, if He paid partially, then our debt to God remains and we are all going to end up in hell. But because Christ paid in full, there is no debt for those who are in Christ, therefore those who are in Christ cannot go to hell.

If you are a born again Christian, that means Christ has satisfied God's wrath on the cross for you. There no longer remains wrath, so how can a Christian suffer God's wrath when Christ has satisfied God wrath? All of you who preach that salvation can be lost fail to address this, because you can't.

Moses sinned after he was saved, and yet he is in Heaven. So is Peter, David, Abraham. All who sinned after they have been saved. According to your logic, they are in hell, because they have sinned after being saved, but that is false.


So if it was enough and perfect, that how can a salvation be lost? It can't


If our future sins are not forgiven, then two things must happen: 1) when we sin in the future, we revert to an unforgiven state, meaning we lose our salvation and must be saved again, and 2) Christ must die again to cover the sins we’ve committed since His last death. Neither of these scenarios is biblical. We are kept by God, and thus our salvation is secure John 10:28–30; and Christ died “once for all” Hebrews 10:10.

From the cross, Jesus said, “It is finished!” John 19:30. No other sacrifice would ever be needed. Sin—all sin—had been atoned.

Take a look at first Abraham's covenant. God said 'I will do this, I will do that. It was one sided, Abraham was asleep. This is the covenant of grace. It is one sided.

Neither the present nor the future, . . . nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord” Romans 8:38–39. The future cannot separate us from God’s love, even if there is sin in our future. So I ask, what will separate me from the love of God?

The Bible teaches that, after salvation, we continue to sin 1 John 1:8; 2:1. We won’t reach sinless perfection this side of glory. The power of sin is broken, but, because we are still flawed humans living in a fallen world, we still at times give in to temptation. Our future sins, although ultimately forgiven in Christ, should still be confessed to God 1 John 1:9. Unconfessed sin, a sign of a disobedient, stubborn heart, will bring the Father’s discipline on His children Hebrews 12:4–11.


Absolutely yes. You have to worry for the rest of your life if you lived a life good enough. But the Bible teaches us of assurance.

One day, will will stand in front of God. I will say that God has done for my salvation everything through His Son on the cross. You will say His Son has not done enough for you, and what mattered was how you lived as a Christian to achieve your salvation. You will boast in your deeds, but I will only boast in Christ.
Belief in Jesus and His sacrifice is the beginning of a lifelong journey. (Matt. 16:24)

As pointed out previously, Apostle Paul expressed it was possible that he could be a castaway. And that all must work out their own salvation with fear and trembling:
"But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway." 1 Cor. 9:27
"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." Philippians 2:12



Jesus revealed the necessity to abide in Him. The meaning of the Greek word for “abide” is μένω (men-o). μένω means to remain or stay, to continue to exist, persist.
"I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned." John 15: 1-6
 
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Wansvic

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And Matt 7:13 and it seem that MANY just love the WIDE GATE >

And Pro 14:2 really nails it right !!

Pro 14:12 says There is a way that seems RIGHT to a man , but the WAY are b bb the ways of DEATH, and this the world !!

AND this what Happened to Israel , is who it is taking ABOUT , and NOT to those of TODAY

Yes or NO ?/

dan p
"There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death" (Prov.14:12) This scripture does not just pertain to Israel. The scripture reveals people can be deceived.

The way to avoid being deceived is to "seek FIRST the kingdom of God and His righteousness. (Matt. 6:33) This involves believing in Jesus and His sacrifice, and obeying what He says is necessary; being born of water and Spirit. (John 3:3-5, Acts 2:4-42) The Holy Spirit leads those who have been born again into all truth. (John 16:13)

Study of the word is not optional, it along with the leading of the Holy Spirit confirms what is and is not true: "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: Shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." (2 Tim. 2:15, 3:16)
 
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Ivan Hlavanda

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I am posting this for those who you are leading into captivity with your heresy.
What heresy are you accusing me off?

Is it a heresy to say that I 100% trust Jesus, and Him alone, for my salvation? Is it a heresy to say His sacrifice was perfect? Is it a heresy to say that when Christ drank the cup of God’s wrath He drank it to the dregs? IS it a heresy to say that there is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus and that means on the final day and every day until then? God is never judging you for your sin if you are in Christ.

Is it a heresy to trust God's Word and Him assuring us in our salvation?
John 5:24 He that hears my Word and believes on Him that sent me has everlasting life and, therefore, shall not come into judgment but is passed from death unto life.” That may be the single-most monumental statement ever made in the Bible relative to the security of salvation. “He that hears my Word and believes on Him that sent me has everlasting life.” We already have it. It's done. It is finished said Jesus on the cross.

“Of all that the Father gives me, I shall lose nothing, but raise him up again at the last day.” In other words, all those chosen unto salvation, all those who affirm that salvation by coming to Jesus Christ, will be raised up in the last day. There’s no loss, you see. Nobody escapes, nobody’s lost, nobody falls through the cracks. And verse 40 sums it up, “And this is the will of Him that sent me, that every one who sees the Son” - and that is with the eye of faith, the eye of true spiritual perception - “and believes on Him may have everlasting life.”

In 17:11, He says, “And now I am no more in the world” - He’s anticipating His exodus, having accomplished His work - “but these are in the world” - that is, the disciples, those who are His children - “and I come to thee, Holy Father. Keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one as we are.” Now, there is the Son praying to the Father that the Father will keep His own. Verse 15, “I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil one.”

Now, since we know that our Savior always prays in perfect harmony with the will of the Father, we can be assured that this is indeed His will. And so you have the will of the Father to keep His own and the affirmation of that will in the intercessory high priestly work of Jesus Christ.

John 10:25 , “I do my Father’s works,” and then He begins to talk about His sheep who understand that while others do not. And verse 27, “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them and they follow me.” In other words, there’s perfect commitment of true sheep to the true shepherd. “And I give unto them eternal life.”

Romans 8:1 says, “There is, therefore, now no judgment” - there is no judgment, no final judgment, no ultimate condemnation - “to them who are in Christ Jesus.” No judgment to them in Christ Jesus. And because there no longer is judgement, as God's people have been judged in Christ, how can a believer be judged again for something he has been judged in Christ? He can't. Something that you fail to address, because you can't.

Verse 28, “And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to His purpose.”

When God calls according to redemptive purpose, everything works to that end. “For whom He did foreknow” - which means to predetermine to love. The word “know” meaning to set a love relationship in motion. It says, “Cain knew his wife and she bore a child.” It means more than he knew who she was. It says, “I know my sheep.” It means more than He knew who they were. There’s an intimate love relationship. It says that Mary was pregnant but Joseph had not “known” her. Amos 3:2, “Israel only have I known.” It implies intimacy.

And so whom He did predetermine a love relationship with, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son. In other words, when God chose people to salvation, He will bring them to full conformity to Christlikeness. Nobody falls in the cracks. Nobody is lost. They will all be brought to that. “For whom He did predestinate, them He also called. And whom He called, them He also justified. And whom He justified, them He also glorified.” Do you see any loss there? Whoever is called, whoever is predestined, whoever is redeemed, whoever is justified, whoever is sanctified is glorified. No loss.

“Now what shall we say then to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?” In other words, you say, “Well, maybe this is God’s plan, but the devil will get in there and mess it up.” Is the devil more powerful than God? “If God is for us, who can stand against us?” Who can stand against God? “He that spared not His own Son but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things?” In other words, the point being that if God gave His Son to redeem us at that immense price and could effect our redemption with that kind of sacrifice, will He stop short of any other sacrifice to keep us? No.

And this is the meaning of Romans 5. If we have been saved by His death, much more we shall be being saved by His life. In other words, if we can be saved eternally from sin by Christ dying, how much more can we be kept by Him living? Right? If His death is efficacious enough to redeem us, how much more shall His life keep us redeemed? Romans 5:8 to 10.

Verse 35 'what shall separate us from the love of Christ? And what’s the answer to that? Nothing - nothing - tribulation, distress, persecution, famine, nakedness, peril, sword, nothing. Verse 38, “Death, life, angels, principalities, powers,” - those are ranks of demons and angels - “things present, things to come, height, depth, nor any other creation shall be able to separate us form the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.” Now, this is the affirmation that our salvation is secure. It is secure.

Titus 3:10-11 KJV
A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; [11] Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.
I fully trust Jesus for my Salvation. Yet you call me a heretic and insult me.

I tell people Jesus sacrifice on the cross is enough for salvation, because He atoned for God's people, He satisfied God's wrath for His people. He perfectly accomplished salvation for all His true believers.

But you teach what all other false religions teach, 'do this, and this, you must do this and this, you must add deeds to the cross of Christ' Gospel of deeds you preach. I preach gospel of grace. Who is a heretic now?
 
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Ivan Hlavanda

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Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Holy Spirit bears good fruit, not us.

I posted plenty of verses here showing that our salvation cannot be lost, which of course gets completely ignored.

When will one of you finally explain how can a Christ blood washed, Holy Spirit born again Christian end up in hell suffering God's wrath when Christ satisfied God's wrath for His people? None of you can explain that, because it is not possible. Christ has fully paid for all the sins of every true believer, there is no longer condemnation for those in Christ. It is finished. Done. Put your trust fully in Jesus for salvation, not in yourself.
 
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Hazelelponi

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Jesus also warned that some would hear the word and believe for a while, but eventually fall away. In the Parable of the Sower, He explained;
"But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles." (Matthew 13:20-21).This illustrates that some will start their walk with God but will not persevere when faced with trials or temptations.


Hearing the word of God is not being saved. where in Scripture does it say "hearing" is salvific? I'll tell you where, it's no where in the Bible. You can hear the Word all day long and not understand.

"In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: “’You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving." Matthew 13:14

Hearing doesn't save. We proclaim the Gospel, but the hearing isn't what saves. It just means you heard some words, not that you understood those words, believed in Jesus to salvation and confessed Jesus is Lord.

Romans 10:9 states: "If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."

When we are saved we are given the seal of the Holy Spirit - that's the root that the hearer in the quoted parable didn't have for them to persevere after the hearing.

"In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit," Ephesians 1:13

Salvation is more than hearing; salvation requires an appropriate response to what is heard to become a salvific experience.

The 3rd person of the Trinity is the seal upon the believers. The guarantor of our salvation. God would literally have to stop being God to lose our salvation.

That's not to say everyone who claims they are saved is: not all Israel is Israel.
 
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Hazelelponi

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Absolutely yes. You have to worry for the rest of your life if you lived a life good enough. But the Bible teaches us of assurance.

Absolutely! this is a ridiculous statement.

The Apostle Paul said we make our calling and election sure, and compared it to military type training "running the race" and the like.

That's not "worrying you're good enough for the rest of your life" (what a ridiculous thing!) your focus is not on yourself, it's not gnashing of teeth because you are behaving according to God's wisdom instead of the worlds; your primary focus is on your Lord and Savior and what He did for us.

We love Him because He first loved us... We are grateful and thankful to have a Father - God - an elder Brother who died for us and God's Spirit who reminds, guides, and comforts.

Our following Him is our response made in love of Him because of what He did, and it's He who enables us... It's not some agonizing chore.
 
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BNR32FAN

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In John 15:6, Jesus made it even clearer, saying;
"If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned."Here, Jesus compares Himself to a vine and believers as branches. A branch must remain connected to the vine to stay alive and bear fruit. If a person disconnects from Christ through disobedience or unbelief, they wither spiritually and face eternal judgment.
I think it’s also important to point out that in John 15 only Jesus’ 11 faithful apostles were there for that discussion. This took place in the upper room right after the Last Supper and Judas had already left to go and betray Him. So that message was preached only to believers, there weren’t any unbelievers there during that discussion. So every time Jesus says “You” in that discussion He’s talking to believers, the faithful 11.
 
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BNR32FAN

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To answer your question one must look at the cross. What happened there?

Jesus' sacrifice was perfect. He paid the penalty for every sin of every believer. When Christ drank the cup of God’s wrath he drank it to the dregs. There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus and that means on the final day and every day until then. God is never judging you for your sin if you are in Christ.

God cannot judge His people in any way because his people have already been judged in Jesus.
Jesus paid for the sins of the entire world, not just our sins and those who don’t abide in Christ are not judged in Him.
 
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Ivan Hlavanda

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Jesus paid for the sins of the entire world, not just our sins and those who don’t abide in Christ are not judged in Him.
If this was true, it means that hell is full of people whose salvation was purchased by the death and resurrection of Christ. It means, then, that everybody in hell and everybody in heaven had the same thing done for them on the cross. The lake of fire will be filled with eternally damned people whose sins were actually atoned for on the cross.

That Jesus died for, paid for in full the sins of the damned, paid the penalty of divine justice for them - just as He did for the redeemed - is a very strange notion. And the sinner, then, determines whether that universally potential death is applied to him or not.

This view would say Christ died to make salvation possible, not actual. He died to make it possible. The sinner, then, makes the choice. He didn’t really purchase salvation for anyone, He actually died on the cross and in some way removed a barrier to make salvation a potential. You will not find such language anywhere in the New Testament or the Old.

Now, the problem with this is glaring. Here’s the problem: According to Scripture, sinners are dead - dead in trespasses and sin, separated from the life of God. They are blind. They are perishing. They’re in a state of perishing eternally. They are double blind because the god of this world has blinded their minds. In their natural state, they cannot understand the things of God - they are foolishness to them. Or to borrow the language of Romans 3, there is none who seeks after God, there is no fear of God before their eyes. This, then, affirms another doctrine that the church has always established as true and that is the sinner’s total inability.

The Bible is clear that all are dead in trespasses and sins. That the heart of man is deceitful above all things, desperately wicked. That all its imaginations are only evil continually. The mind is dark, the soul is dark, the heart is full of wicked corruption. The sinner, on his own, can’t do anything.

In John chapter 1 and verse 12, “As many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become the children of God, even to those who believe on His name, who were born not of blood” - it didn’t come from a human source - “nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.” If you were given the authority to become a child of God, if you were born into the family of God, it wasn’t because you activated human will. “For by grace you are saved, through faith - that not of yourselves.” First Corinthians chapter 1, in verse 30: “By His doing, you are in Christ Jesus.”

The doctrine of man’s inability necessitates the doctrine of God’s divine invasion. Salvation is from God. He must give light, He must give life, He must give sight, He must give understanding, He must give repentance, He must give faith, He must totally transform the sinner. And that’s what God does. And He does it to those whom He has chosen. Scripture is very clear on that as well.

Now, since the sinner cannot will to believe on his own, since he can only believe if God enables him to believe, and since God enables to believe those whom He has chosen, it should be clear that the provision of sacrifice that Christ provided on the cross would be on behalf of those who would believe because they were given life because they were chosen. For those who would believe who are the chosen and the called of God, to whom God regenerates, gives life, the atonement was designed to apply.

We know the atonement is limited because not everybody believes. People die without believing in Christ. They die rejecting the gospel. They die without ever hearing about Christ, and the only way to be saved is through faith in Christ. Sinners perish every minute and have through all of history. We all know the atonement is limited. Scripture is explicit about hell. Jesus said many are going to go there. So when somebody accuses you of saying you believe in limited atonement, of course you do. The atonement does not apply to everyone.
 
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Dan Perez

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All of them, they mean the same thing.
I only found 3 verses !!

# 1 Phil 4:3

# 2 Rev 3:5

# 3 Rev 22:19

# 4 And Grace believers saved by Grace , lose REWARDS , 1 Cor 3:5-15 !!

dan p
 
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BNR32FAN

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If this was true, it means that hell is full of people whose salvation was purchased by the death and resurrection of Christ. It means, then, that everybody in hell and everybody in heaven had the same thing done for them on the cross. The lake of fire will be filled with eternally damned people whose sins were actually atoned for on the cross.

That Jesus died for, paid for in full the sins of the damned, paid the penalty of divine justice for them - just as He did for the redeemed - is a very strange notion. And the sinner, then, determines whether that universally potential death is applied to him or not.

This view would say Christ died to make salvation possible, not actual. He died to make it possible. The sinner, then, makes the choice. He didn’t really purchase salvation for anyone, He actually died on the cross and in some way removed a barrier to make salvation a potential. You will not find such language anywhere in the New Testament or the Old.

Now, the problem with this is glaring. Here’s the problem: According to Scripture, sinners are dead - dead in trespasses and sin, separated from the life of God. They are blind. They are perishing. They’re in a state of perishing eternally. They are double blind because the god of this world has blinded their minds. In their natural state, they cannot understand the things of God - they are foolishness to them. Or to borrow the language of Romans 3, there is none who seeks after God, there is no fear of God before their eyes. This, then, affirms another doctrine that the church has always established as true and that is the sinner’s total inability.

The Bible is clear that all are dead in trespasses and sins. That the heart of man is deceitful above all things, desperately wicked. That all its imaginations are only evil continually. The mind is dark, the soul is dark, the heart is full of wicked corruption. The sinner, on his own, can’t do anything.

In John chapter 1 and verse 12, “As many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become the children of God, even to those who believe on His name, who were born not of blood” - it didn’t come from a human source - “nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.” If you were given the authority to become a child of God, if you were born into the family of God, it wasn’t because you activated human will. “For by grace you are saved, through faith - that not of yourselves.” First Corinthians chapter 1, in verse 30: “By His doing, you are in Christ Jesus.”

The doctrine of man’s inability necessitates the doctrine of God’s divine invasion. Salvation is from God. He must give light, He must give life, He must give sight, He must give understanding, He must give repentance, He must give faith, He must totally transform the sinner. And that’s what God does. And He does it to those whom He has chosen. Scripture is very clear on that as well.

Now, since the sinner cannot will to believe on his own, since he can only believe if God enables him to believe, and since God enables to believe those whom He has chosen, it should be clear that the provision of sacrifice that Christ provided on the cross would be on behalf of those who would believe because they were given life because they were chosen. For those who would believe who are the chosen and the called of God, to whom God regenerates, gives life, the atonement was designed to apply.

We know the atonement is limited because not everybody believes. People die without believing in Christ. They die rejecting the gospel. They die without ever hearing about Christ, and the only way to be saved is through faith in Christ. Sinners perish every minute and have through all of history. We all know the atonement is limited. Scripture is explicit about hell. Jesus said many are going to go there. So when somebody accuses you of saying you believe in limited atonement, of course you do. The atonement does not apply to everyone.
No there are a ton of problems with this. First of all total depravity was not taught in the early church it began with Augustine. Iranaeus refuted the idea of total depravity because it was a Gnostic belief. Iranaeus wrote 4 entire chapters disputing total depravity.

1. Man has received the knowledge of good and evil. It is good to obey God, and to believe in Him, and to keep His commandment, and this is the life of man; as not to obey God is evil, and this is his death. Since God, therefore, gave [to man] such mental power (magnanimitatem) man knew both the good of obedienceand the evil of disobedience, that the eye of the mind, receiving experience of both, may with judgment make choice of the better things; and that he may never become indolent or neglectful of God's command; and learning by experience that it is an evil thing which deprives him of life, that is, disobedience to God, may never attempt it at all, but that, knowing that what preserves his life, namely, obedience to God, is good, he may diligently keep it with all earnestness. Wherefore he has also had a twofold experience, possessing knowledge of both kinds, that with discipline he may make choice of the better things. But how, if he had no knowledge of the contrary, could he have had instruction in that which is good? For there is thus a surer and an undoubted comprehension of matters submitted to us than the mere surmise arising from an opinion regarding them. For just as the tongue receives experience of sweet and bitter by means of tasting, and the eye discriminates between black and white by means of vision, and the ear recognises the distinctions of sounds by hearing; so also does the mind, receiving through the experience of both the knowledgeof what is good, become more tenacious of its preservation, by acting in obedience to God: in the first place, casting away, by means of repentance, disobedience, as being something disagreeable and nauseous; and afterwards coming to understand what it really is, that it is contrary to goodness and sweetness, so that the mind may never even attempt to taste disobedience to God. But if any one do shun the knowledge of both these kinds of things, and the twofold perception of knowledge, he unawares divests himself of the character of a human being.



2. How, then, shall he be a God, who has not as yet been made a man? Or how can he be perfect who was but lately created? How, again, can he be immortal, who in his mortal nature did not obey his Maker? For it must be that you, at the outset, should hold the rank of a man, and then afterwards partake of the gloryof God. For you did not make God, but God you. If, then, you are God's workmanship, await the hand of your Maker which creates everything in due time; in due time as far as you are concerned, whose creation is being carried out. Offer to Him your heart in a soft and tractable state, and preserve the form in which the Creator has fashioned you, having moisture in yourself, lest, by becoming hardened, you lose the impressions of His fingers. But by preserving the framework you shall ascend to that which is perfect, for the moist clay which is in you is hidden [there] by the workmanship of God. His hand fashioned your substance; He will cover you over [too] within and without with pure gold and silver, and He will adorn you to such a degree, that even the King Himself shall have pleasure in your beauty. But if you, being obstinately hardened, reject the operation of His skill, and show yourself ungrateful towards Him, because you were created a [mere] man, by becoming thus ungrateful to God, you have at once lost both His workmanship and life. For creation is an attribute of the goodness of God but to be created is that of human nature. If then, you shall deliver up to Him what is yours, that is, faith towards Him and subjection, you shall receive His handiwork, and shall be a perfect work of God.



3. If, however, you will not believe in Him, and will flee from His hands, the causeof imperfection shall be in you who did not obey, but not in Him who called [you]. For He commissioned [messengers] to call people to the marriage, but they who did not obey Him deprived themselves of the royal supper. Matthew 22:3, etc. The skill of God, therefore, is not defective, for He has power of the stones to raise up children to Abraham; Matthew 3:9but the man who does not obtain it is the causeto himself of his own imperfection. Nor, [in like manner], does the light fail because of those who have blinded themselves; but while it remains the same as ever, those who are [thus] blinded are involved in darkness through their own fault. The light does never enslave any one by necessity; nor, again, does God exercise compulsion upon any one unwilling to accept the exercise of His skill. Those persons, therefore, who have apostatized from the light given by the Father, and transgressed the law of liberty, have done so through their own fault, since they have been created free agents, and possessed of power over themselves.



4. But God, foreknowing all things, prepared fit habitations for both, kindly conferring that light which they desire on those who seek after the light of incorruption, and resort to it; but for the despisers and mockers who avoid and turn themselves away from this light, and who do, as it were, blind themselves, He has prepared darkness suitable to persons who oppose the light, and He has inflicted an appropriate punishment upon those who try to avoid being subject to Him. Submission to God is eternal rest, so that they who shun the light have a place worthy of their flight; and those who fly from eternal rest, have a habitation in accordance with their fleeing. Now, since all good things are with God, they who by their own determination fly from God, do defraud themselves of all good things; and having been [thus] defrauded of all goodthings with respect to God, they shall consequently fall under the just judgment of God. For those persons who shun rest shall justly incur punishment, and those who avoid the light shall justly dwell in darkness. For as in the case of this temporal light, those who shun it do deliver themselves over to darkness, so that they do themselves become the cause to themselves that they are destitute of light, and do inhabit darkness; and, as I have already observed, the light is not the cause of such an [unhappy] condition of existence to them; so those who fly from the eternal light of God, which contains in itself all goodthings, are themselves the cause to themselves of their inhabiting eternaldarkness, destitute of all good things, having become to themselves the causeof [their consignment to] an abode of that nature.

St Iranaeus 170AD Adversus Haereses Book 4 Chapter 39
 
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If this was true, it means that hell is full of people whose salvation was purchased by the death and resurrection of Christ. It means, then, that everybody in hell and everybody in heaven had the same thing done for them on the cross. The lake of fire will be filled with eternally damned people whose sins were actually atoned for on the cross.

That Jesus died for, paid for in full the sins of the damned, paid the penalty of divine justice for them - just as He did for the redeemed - is a very strange notion. And the sinner, then, determines whether that universally potential death is applied to him or not.

This view would say Christ died to make salvation possible, not actual. He died to make it possible. The sinner, then, makes the choice. He didn’t really purchase salvation for anyone, He actually died on the cross and in some way removed a barrier to make salvation a potential. You will not find such language anywhere in the New Testament or the Old.

Now, the problem with this is glaring. Here’s the problem: According to Scripture, sinners are dead - dead in trespasses and sin, separated from the life of God. They are blind. They are perishing. They’re in a state of perishing eternally. They are double blind because the god of this world has blinded their minds. In their natural state, they cannot understand the things of God - they are foolishness to them. Or to borrow the language of Romans 3, there is none who seeks after God, there is no fear of God before their eyes. This, then, affirms another doctrine that the church has always established as true and that is the sinner’s total inability.

The Bible is clear that all are dead in trespasses and sins. That the heart of man is deceitful above all things, desperately wicked. That all its imaginations are only evil continually. The mind is dark, the soul is dark, the heart is full of wicked corruption. The sinner, on his own, can’t do anything.

In John chapter 1 and verse 12, “As many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become the children of God, even to those who believe on His name, who were born not of blood” - it didn’t come from a human source - “nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.” If you were given the authority to become a child of God, if you were born into the family of God, it wasn’t because you activated human will. “For by grace you are saved, through faith - that not of yourselves.” First Corinthians chapter 1, in verse 30: “By His doing, you are in Christ Jesus.”

The doctrine of man’s inability necessitates the doctrine of God’s divine invasion. Salvation is from God. He must give light, He must give life, He must give sight, He must give understanding, He must give repentance, He must give faith, He must totally transform the sinner. And that’s what God does. And He does it to those whom He has chosen. Scripture is very clear on that as well.

Now, since the sinner cannot will to believe on his own, since he can only believe if God enables him to believe, and since God enables to believe those whom He has chosen, it should be clear that the provision of sacrifice that Christ provided on the cross would be on behalf of those who would believe because they were given life because they were chosen. For those who would believe who are the chosen and the called of God, to whom God regenerates, gives life, the atonement was designed to apply.

We know the atonement is limited because not everybody believes. People die without believing in Christ. They die rejecting the gospel. They die without ever hearing about Christ, and the only way to be saved is through faith in Christ. Sinners perish every minute and have through all of history. We all know the atonement is limited. Scripture is explicit about hell. Jesus said many are going to go there. So when somebody accuses you of saying you believe in limited atonement, of course you do. The atonement does not apply to everyone.
The fact that Jesus died for the sins off all men is repeated in several verses in several different ways. He is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world. You don’t use the word “whole” in front of the word “world” when you’re only referring to some of the world but not all. Jesus is the Savior of the world, He is the Savior of all men, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone, God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world but so that the world might be saved through Him, who gave Himself as a random for all.

Just because He paid the price for all doesn’t mean He is obligated to allow everyone into heaven.
 
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