Why John 6:37-40 Can’t Support Eternal Security

[Clare73]

What if someone stops believing?

Those with eternal life do not stop believing.

If they stop believing it is because they were not born again, do not have eternal life and, therefore, their faith was counterfeit.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Well, I have personally known only a handfull of people who have said they stopped believing. I have no way of verifying what they stopped believing or whether or not they ever possessed etverlasting life, but all of them had symptoms of a negative reaction to leglistic doctrines. I have not seen one of them for many years, but the last time I saw him he seemd to have recovered and I never thought of him as being lost or as having given up his trust in Christ. I have had regular contact with three others. The lifestyle (and beliefs/opinions) of two of them would likely lead a fruit inspector (which I am not one) to conclude that they are not saved and never were saved. The lifestyle (and beliefs/opinions) of the third is harder for me to read.

But I can say that when a person puts his trust in Christ, Jesus gives him everlasting life (this is supported by many Scriptures). This means he will never perish (per Jesus in John 10:28 and other verses). If he perishes (ostensibly because he stops believing), then the life he received from Christ was not everlasting life. In the case of this person who perishes, we can't conclude Jesus was mistaken that those to whom He gives eternal life will never perish, so we must conclude that Jesus never gave him everlasting life in the first place. By extension, since we know that Jesus gives everlasting life to everyone who trusts in Him (John 3:16), we can conclude that nobody that perishes ever put their trust in Christ.

That's the best I can do to answer that question.

But Paul wrote in Colossians 1:21-23 that Christ has now reconciled them to The Father in order to present them before Him holy and blameless IF they remain steadfast in the faith.

“And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭1‬:‭21‬-‭23‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

So they’re reconciled now, and on Judgement Day He will present them holy and blameless before The Father, IF they continue in the faith.

There’s also John 3:36

“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.””
‭‭John‬ ‭3‬:‭36‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Now the term “does not obey” in this verse is often translated as “does not believe” or “rejects”. And the result is that person will not receive eternal life and God’s wrath abides on him. This would suggest that if a believer stops believing then this verse applies to them.

Strong's Lexicon apeitheó: Disobey, be disobedient, refuse to believe​ Original Word: ἀπειθέω Part of Speech: Verb Transliteration: apeitheó Pronunciation: ah-pay-THAY-oh Phonetic Spelling: (ap-i-theh'-o) Definition: Disobey, be disobedient, refuse to believe Meaning: I disobey, rebel, am disloyal, refuse conformity. Word Origin: Derived from the Greek prefix "a-" (not) and "peithō" (to persuade or obey), meaning "not to be persuaded" or "to disobey." Corresponding Greek / Hebrew Entries: The concept of disobedience in the Hebrew Bible is often captured by words like מָרָה (marah - Strong's H4784) meaning "to rebel" or "to be disobedient," and סָרַר (sarar - Strong's H5637) meaning "to be stubborn" or "to turn away." Usage: The verb ἀπειθέω (apeitheó) is used in the New Testament to describe a state of disbelief or disobedience, particularly in relation to God's commands or the gospel message. It conveys a willful rejection or refusal to be persuaded by divine truth. This term often highlights the moral and spiritual rebellion against God's authority.

See the way I view the passages that speak of having eternal life is I see it as a current status. If you’re in Christ you have it but if you turn away from Him then you don’t have it. So you lost what you would’ve received if you hadn’t turned away from Him. Because there are passages that say we have eternal life, there are passages that say we will receive eternal life, and there are passages that say we have the hope or promise of eternal life. So eternal life isn’t only spoken of in the scriptures as one already possessing it.

 

[Longing to kneel]

Why should I be afraid when my salvation only depends on whether or not I continue to cooperate with God? Adam was spiritually alive before he became spiritually dead. And James 5:19-20 also indicates that a believer can be in danger of the death of their soul.

“My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.”
‭‭James‬ ‭5‬:‭19‬-‭20‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Salvation according to the Bible, is a gift from God and is not dependent on our works or continual cooperation but on God's grace alone. Ephesians 2:8-9 clarifies that "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, so that no one can boast." This passage makes it clear that salvation is not something we can lose by failing to cooperate; it's a gift that comes through faith in Jesus Christ.

Additionally, John 10:28-29 assures believers of the security of their salvation: "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand." These verses affirm that once someone is saved, they are eternally secure in Christ, as no one can take them away from God.

Regarding James 5:19-20, it is important to recognize that this passage speaks about believers who have strayed from the truth, but the context is about restoration and helping them return to the faith. It doesn't imply that salvation is lost, but rather that the person's spiritual state is endangered. The goal is to bring them back to the truth, not to suggest their salvation can be lost..

 

[Longing to kneel]

Yes but my answer is based on my belief that I will never turn away from Christ or deny Him. That doesn’t mean that I’m not capable of turning away or denying Him. What Paul’s statement proves is that everyone including true believers are capable of turning away from Christ. That’s what 2 Timothy 2 is all about, it’s Paul explaining the importance of persevering which is precisely why he quoted Jesus from Matthew 10 because Jesus was giving the exact same message to His twelve disciples.

I explain all of this in detail in this video.

2 Timothy 2:13

"If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself."

This verse emphasizes that even if we are unfaithful or turn away, God remains faithful to us. His faithfulness is not dependent on ours, and He will never deny His commitment to us.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Salvation according to the Bible, is a gift from God and is not dependent on our works or continual cooperation but on God's grace alone. Ephesians 2:8-9 clarifies that "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, so that no one can boast." This passage makes it clear that salvation is not something we can lose by failing to cooperate; it's a gift that comes through faith in Jesus Christ.

Ya know I can’t help but say that people keep quoting Ephesians 2:8-9 but then they translate 2 Timothy 2:13 to say the exact opposite of what Ephesians 2:8 says. And no that passage doesn’t say that you can’t lose your salvation because faith is a requirement for receiving it.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Regarding James 5:19-20, it is important to recognize that this passage speaks about believers who have strayed from the truth, but the context is about restoration and helping them return to the faith. It doesn't imply that salvation is lost, but rather that the person's spiritual state is endangered. The goal is to bring them back to the truth, not to suggest their salvation can be lost..

It literally says that if he turns back his souls will be saved from death. Are you telling me that his souls will still be saved from death if he doesn’t turn back?

 

[BNR32FAN]

2 Timothy 2:13

"If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself."

This verse emphasizes that even if we are unfaithful or turn away, God remains faithful to us. His faithfulness is not dependent on ours, and He will never deny His commitment to us.

Ok so you interpret verse 13 to say the exact opposite of verse 12? What does it mean in verse 12 when Paul says “He will deny us”? You really should watch the video where I explain all of this in detail.

You’re also interpreting verse 13 to say the exact opposite of Ephesians 2:8.

 

[Longing to kneel]

It literally says that if he turns back his souls will be saved from death. Are you telling me that his souls will still be saved from death if he doesn’t turn back?

The passage in James 5:19-20 does indicate the importance of turning back to the truth in order to save someone’s soul from death, but it does not suggest that salvation is lost in a way that cannot be restored. The key here is understanding that these verses are addressing the restoration of someone who has strayed from the faith. It’s not saying that salvation can be completely lost and cannot be regained. The emphasis is on the restoring of someone who has gone astray, and that through this process, their soul can be saved from spiritual death.

Also, consider passages like John 10:28-29, which assures believers of eternal security: "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand." This suggests that those who are truly saved by grace are secure in Christ, even if they stray, because their salvation is ultimately dependent on God's grace, not on their own actions.

Therefore, James 5:19-20 is more about helping someone return to the truth and salvation than it is about the loss of salvation itself. It shows the process of restoration, where God’s grace is still at work, and the person can be saved from spiritual death by turning back to God. The overarching truth is that salvation is secured through faith in Christ, and while straying can lead to spiritual harm, God's desire is for us to return to Him.

 

[Longing to kneel]

Ya know I can’t help but say that people keep quoting Ephesians 2:8-9 but then they translate 2 Timothy 2:13 to say the exact opposite of what Ephesians 2:8 says. And no that passage doesn’t say that you can’t lose your salvation because faith is a requirement for receiving it.

It seems like there’s some confusion about how Ephesians 2:8-9 and 2 Timothy 2:13 relate to each other. Let’s clarify both passages in light of the broader biblical context.


Ephesians 2:8-9 says:"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, so that no one can boast."

This clearly emphasizes that salvation is a gift from God, not based on works or human effort. It’s through faith in Jesus Christ that we are saved, and this salvation is not dependent on our own actions to maintain it. This is foundational in understanding that salvation is not something that can be lost by failing to be faithful.


2 Timothy 2:13 says:"If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself."

This verse reassures us that even when we are faithless, God remains faithful. It’s not that God’s promises are dependent on our faithfulness, but rather that He is always faithful to His word. This is a reminder that salvation is not ultimately based on our ability to remain faithful but on God’s unchanging nature and promises. Even when we falter, God does not.

So, Ephesians 2:8-9 and 2 Timothy 2:13 are not in contradiction with each other. Ephesians 2:8-9 tells us that salvation is by grace through faith and not based on works. 2 Timothy 2:13 shows us that God remains faithful even when we are not, highlighting that our salvation is secure because of His faithfulness, not our ability to always stay faithful.

Faith is required for salvation, but salvation is secured by God’s grace through that faith, not by our own efforts to maintain it. If someone were to truly lose their salvation, it would suggest that God's faithfulness is dependent on our actions, which contradicts verses like John 10:28-29, where Jesus assures that no one can snatch us out of His hand.

So, while faith is vital, our salvation is ultimately grounded in God's unchanging faithfulness, not our fluctuating human faithfulness.

 

[Longing to kneel]

Ya know I can’t help but say that people keep quoting Ephesians 2:8-9 but then they translate 2 Timothy 2:13 to say the exact opposite of what Ephesians 2:8 says. And no that passage doesn’t say that you can’t lose your salvation because faith is a requirement for receiving it.

Lemmie ask you this -

When you screwed up royally with your father here on earth did you cease to become your father's son?

Did he forgive you and possibly even chastise you?

Are you any less of your father's son?

Spiritual birth can only occur once just as physical birth.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The passage in James 5:19-20 does indicate the importance of turning back to the truth in order to save someone’s soul from death, but it does not suggest that salvation is lost in a way that cannot be restored.

I’ve never said that anyone who has lost their salvation can’t regain it by turning back to Christ.

The key here is understanding that these verses are addressing the restoration of someone who has strayed from the faith. It’s not saying that salvation can be completely lost and cannot be regained.

If it couldn’t be completely lost then their soul could never be in danger of death. If James taught salvation can never be completely lost then he wouldn’t be saying that a believers soul can be in danger of death because those are contradictory statements. They’re literally polar opposites.

The emphasis is on the restoring of someone who has gone astray, and that through this process, their soul can be saved from spiritual death.

Their soul was already saved from death the first time they believed. Now that they’ve turned away their soul is once again in danger of death, and if they turn back to the faith their soul will once again be saved. If they were already a believer before they turned away then their soul was saved at that time. Amen?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Also, consider passages like John 10:28-29, which assures believers of eternal security: "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand." This suggests that those who are truly saved by grace are secure in Christ, even if they stray, because their salvation is ultimately dependent on God's grace, not on their own actions.

Not according to verse 27?

Why did you start with verse 28? Verse 28 starts with the word AND. You omitted the first part of that sentence in verse 28 by not including verse 27.

“My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.”
‭‭John‬ ‭10‬:‭27‬-‭28‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

The word “THEM” in verse 28 are those who fit the description in verse 27. And the Greek word Harpazo that is translated to “snatch” means to seize, to take by force or to rob which is referring to a third party. Verse 28 doesn’t say that a person cannot turn away from Christ nor does it say that they can’t be cast out from Christ. In John 15:2 Jesus said The Father cuts off every branch IN ME that doesn’t bear fruit. I explained this in the video on John 6:37-40.

◄ 726. harpazó ►

Strong's Lexicon harpazó: To seize, snatch, take away by force​ Original Word: ἁρπάζω Part of Speech: Verb Transliteration: harpazó Pronunciation: har-pad'-zo Phonetic Spelling: (har-pad'-zo) Definition: To seize, snatch, take away by force Meaning: I seize, snatch, obtain by robbery. Word Origin: Derived from a primary root; akin to 138 (haireomai, meaning "to take for oneself"). Corresponding Greek / Hebrew Entries: - H1497 (gāzal): To tear away, seize, plunder - H8610 (tāphas): To seize, capture, grasp Usage: The Greek verb "harpazó" conveys the idea of seizing or snatching away with force or suddenness. It is often used in contexts where something is taken quickly or forcefully, sometimes implying a rescue or deliverance. In the New Testament, it is frequently associated with divine intervention or the power of God.

 

[BNR32FAN]

This clearly emphasizes that salvation is a gift from God, not based on works or human effort.

No that’s not what it says because we are expected to have faith in order to receive grace.

 

[BNR32FAN]

It seems like there’s some confusion about how Ephesians 2:8-9 and 2 Timothy 2:13 relate to each other. Let’s clarify both passages in light of the broader biblical context.


Ephesians 2:8-9 says:"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, so that no one can boast."

This clearly emphasizes that salvation is a gift from God, not based on works or human effort. It’s through faith in Jesus Christ that we are saved, and this salvation is not dependent on our own actions to maintain it. This is foundational in understanding that salvation is not something that can be lost by failing to be faithful.


2 Timothy 2:13 says:"If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself."

This verse reassures us that even when we are faithless, God remains faithful. It’s not that God’s promises are dependent on our faithfulness, but rather that He is always faithful to His word. This is a reminder that salvation is not ultimately based on our ability to remain faithful but on God’s unchanging nature and promises. Even when we falter, God does not.

So, Ephesians 2:8-9 and 2 Timothy 2:13 are not in contradiction with each other. Ephesians 2:8-9 tells us that salvation is by grace through faith and not based on works. 2 Timothy 2:13 shows us that God remains faithful even when we are not, highlighting that our salvation is secure because of His faithfulness, not our ability to always stay faithful.

Faith is required for salvation, but salvation is secured by God’s grace through that faith, not by our own efforts to maintain it. If someone were to truly lose their salvation, it would suggest that God's faithfulness is dependent on our actions, which contradicts verses like John 10:28-29, where Jesus assures that no one can snatch us out of His hand.

So, while faith is vital, our salvation is ultimately grounded in God's unchanging faithfulness, not our fluctuating human faithfulness.

Then why FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DID PAUL WRITE IF WE DENY HIM, HE WILL DENY US? Where did Paul get this from?

““Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭10‬:‭32‬-‭33‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

What does it mean when Christ denies someone before The Father? Did you watch the video at all?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Lemmie ask you this -

When you screwed up royally with your father here on earth did you cease to become your father's son?

Did he forgive you and possibly even chastise you?

Are you any less of your father's son?

Spiritual birth can only occur once just as physical birth.

IF WE DENY HIM, HE WILL DENY US.

What does it mean?

Your explanation of verse 13 directly contradicts verse 12.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Lemmie ask you this -

When you screwed up royally with your father here on earth did you cease to become your father's son?

Did he forgive you and possibly even chastise you?

Are you any less of your father's son?

Spiritual birth can only occur once just as physical birth.

Was Adam spiritually dead before he ate from the tree of knowledge?

Was he spiritually dead afterwards?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Lemmie ask you this -

When you screwed up royally with your father here on earth did you cease to become your father's son?

Did he forgive you and possibly even chastise you?

Are you any less of your father's son?

Spiritual birth can only occur once just as physical birth.

Ok let’s use your same analogy with your dad. Would your dad throw someone into the lake of fire for refusing to believe in him?

Do you see how that comparison doesn’t work?

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

But Paul wrote in Colossians 1:21-23 that Christ has now reconciled them to The Father in order to present them before Him holy and blameless IF they remain steadfast in the faith.

“And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭1‬:‭21‬-‭23‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

So they’re reconciled now, and on Judgement Day He will present them holy and blameless before The Father, IF they continue in the faith.

I already gave the answer to the "if they continue in the faith" POV (i.e., the Perseverance of the Saints Doctrine) in my previous post, though I did not state it explicitly. So here it is explicitly... Nobody who believes in Jesus and has received eternal life from Him ever changes their mind and wants to go back to being lost and destined for hell. If they face all the persecution in the world, all it will do is prove the genuineness of their faith (1 Pe 1:7). As I said before, everlasting life lasts forever, otherwise it is not everlasting.

There’s also John 3:36

“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.””
‭‭John‬ ‭3‬:‭36‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Now the term “does not obey” in this verse is often translated as “does not believe” or “rejects”. And the result is that person will not receive eternal life and God’s wrath abides on him. This would suggest that if a believer stops believing then this verse applies to them.

​

Strong's Lexicon apeitheó: Disobey, be disobedient, refuse to believe​ Original Word: ἀπειθέω Part of Speech: Verb Transliteration: apeitheó Pronunciation: ah-pay-THAY-oh Phonetic Spelling: (ap-i-theh'-o) Definition: Disobey, be disobedient, refuse to believe Meaning: I disobey, rebel, am disloyal, refuse conformity. Word Origin: Derived from the Greek prefix "a-" (not) and "peithō" (to persuade or obey), meaning "not to be persuaded" or "to disobey." Corresponding Greek / Hebrew Entries: The concept of disobedience in the Hebrew Bible is often captured by words like מָרָה (marah - Strong's H4784) meaning "to rebel" or "to be disobedient," and סָרַר (sarar - Strong's H5637) meaning "to be stubborn" or "to turn away." Usage: The verb ἀπειθέω (apeitheó) is used in the New Testament to describe a state of disbelief or disobedience, particularly in relation to God's commands or the gospel message. It conveys a willful rejection or refusal to be persuaded by divine truth. This term often highlights the moral and spiritual rebellion against God's authority.

I thought I had written a post on ἀπειθέω in John 3:36, but I couldn't find it. Maybe I posted it on another forum. Anyway, the verse is contrasting one person who believes in Jesus and has eternal life with another person who refuses to believe in Jesus and will not see life and faces God's wrath. It's not about one person who believes today and disobeys tomorrow and loses eternal life as a result.

See the way I view the passages that speak of having eternal life is I see it as a current status. If you’re in Christ you have it but if you turn away from Him then you don’t have it. So you lost what you would’ve received if you hadn’t turned away from Him. Because there are passages that say we have eternal life, there are passages that say we will receive eternal life, and there are passages that say we have the hope or promise of eternal life. So eternal life isn’t only spoken of in the scriptures as one already possessing it.

I just searched the NKJV for all the instances of "eternal life" OR "everlasting life" in my Bible software. There were 45 verses in total (see below). Most of the instances did not have a specific timeframe associated with them (yellow text). But a few indicated possesion of eternal life in the present (green text), and a few had a future/escatological focus (red text). Nobody argues that there is no future aspect of eternal life (because most of our eternal lives will occur after the deaths of our physical bodies). And most people acknowledge that the lives we will live will be much different after we shed our clothes of flesh (1 Jn 3:2). But making the green text verses below refer to a promise that one day a person will receive eternal life (if he obeys to the end) is to turn the gramar on its head and applies a preconceived context that does not exist.

Besides all that, I know that I currently possess eternal life because I see it in me. I can see that I have eternal life in the here and now. It is something every Christian can observe (1 Jn 5:13), and I have observed that it exists in me.

• Dan 12:2And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt.
• Matt 19:16Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”
• Matt 19:29And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life.
• Matt 25:46And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
• Mark 10:17Now as He was going out on the road, one came running, knelt before Him, and asked Him, “Good Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?”
• Mark 10:30who shall not receive a hundredfold now in this time—houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions—and in the age to come, eternal life.
• Luke 10:25And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”
• Luke 18:18Now a certain ruler asked Him, saying, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”
• Luke 18:30who shall not receive many times more in this present time, and in the age to come eternal life.”
• John 3:15that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.
• John 3:16For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
• John 3:36He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
• John 4:14but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.”
• John 4:36And he who reaps receives wages, and gathers fruit for eternal life, that both he who sows and he who reaps may rejoice together.
• John 5:24“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
• John 5:39You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.
• John 6:27Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.”
• John 6:40And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
• John 6:47Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.
• John 6:54Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
• John 6:68But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.
• John 10:28And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
• John 12:25He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.
• John 12:50And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak.”
• John 17:2as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
• John 17:3And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
• Acts 13:46Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, “It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles.
• Acts 13:48Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.
• Rom 2:7eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
• Rom 5:21so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
• Rom 6:22But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.
• Rom 6:23For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
• Gal 6:8For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.
• 1 Tim 1:16However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life.
• 1 Tim 6:12Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.
• 1 Tim 6:19storing up for themselves a good foundation for the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
• Titus 1:2in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began,
• Titus 3:7that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
• 1 John 1:2the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us—
• 1 John 2:25And this is the promise that He has promised us—eternal life.
• 1 John 3:15Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
• 1 John 5:11And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
• 1 John 5:13These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.
• 1 John 5:20And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
• Jude 21keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

 

[BNR32FAN]

So here it is explicitly... Nobody who believes in Jesus and has received eternal life from Him ever changes their mind and wants to go back to being lost and destined for hell. If they face all the persecution in the world, all it will do is prove the genuineness of their faith (1 Pe 1:7). As I said before, everlasting life lasts forever, otherwise it is not everlasting.

So how does this line up with 2 Timothy 2:12? If we deny Him, He will deny us. Why is Paul warning Timothy of something that you claim is impossible for either of them to do?

 

[Longing to kneel]

Ok let’s use your same analogy with your dad. Would your dad throw someone into the lake of fire for refusing to believe in him?

Do you see how that comparison doesn’t work?

IF WE DENY HIM, HE WILL DENY US.

What does it mean?

Your explanation of verse 13 directly contradicts verse 12.

2 Timothy 2:12 ("If we deny Him, He will deny us") refers to a believer’s commitment and endurance in faith. If someone completely renounces their faith, they are essentially denying their relationship with Christ. Denying Christ in this context refers to a rejection of the faith—turning away from Christ entirely, which is a serious issue. This could be understood as apostasy, where someone willingly and deliberately rejects Christ after knowing Him.

But 2 Timothy 2:13 ("If we are faithless, He remains faithful") reassures us that even when we are faithless or struggle in our faith, God's faithfulness remains constant. This verse is about God’s unwavering commitment to us despite our human weaknesses. If someone falters in faith, God remains faithful, and His promises and grace don’t change because of our lack of faith.