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Blameless in the Law

Does Yahshua call us to the impossible?

  • Yes. Only Yahshua can follow the example that he called us to follow.

  • No. Become imitators of me, according as I also am of Christ.


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Dan Perez

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About 40 years ago give or take I was attending a service a young lady about 12/13 who had been to a skating party the night before was also in the service. The youth group had been playing a relay game at the rink. The young lady had fallen and broken her arm the Dr. had wrapped the arm and put it in a sling. During the service she was sitting across the aisle and one row back from me. She suddenly gabbed her arm and said where many of us could hear., "My arm feels funny." The next day the parents took her back to the Dr.. He xrayed her again and baffled he held up the 2 xrays the first xray showed a broken bone. The second xray showed no broken bone. The dr wrapped the arm again "Just to be on the safe side,"
And I have to stay at home as my wife fell at home and broke her hip in Nov 1 and has been many issues .

So the book of MATTHEW is not ALL written to Israel ??

How about the book of Revelation ??

dan p
 
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Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president
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And I have to stay at home as my wife fell at home and broke her hip in Nov 1 and has been many issues .

So the book of MATTHEW is not ALL written to Israel ??

How about the book of Revelation ??

dan p
2Ti_3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
 
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Dan Perez

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2Ti_3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
And Paul in 2 tim 2:15 is writing to the BODY of Christ or anyone saved by Grace of God , like Rom 10:9 and 10

and Eph 2:8 !!

And 1 Cor 11:1 we are to BECOME IMITATORS of Me ( meaning Paul ) just as I am of Christ , ONLY , not Peter

or John or and other n PERSON !!

dan p
 
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FredVB

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Sin had entered the world, they were no longer innocent, so they needed a blood covering.

I don't have to add to what scripture passages say for what I believe with my faith. The only effective covering for sins is the atonement we have from Jesus Christ, and that is it. I don't believe in sacrifices where they are not stated.
 
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Carl Emerson

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I don't have to add to what scripture passages say for what I believe with my faith. The only effective covering for sins is the atonement we have from Jesus Christ, and that is it. I don't believe in sacrifices where they are not stated.

Nor do I...

Much of what happens in the OT is a shadow of what was to come in the New Covenant.

Nor do I...
 
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bbbbbbb

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Nor do I...

Much of what happens in the OT is a shadow of what was to come in the New Covenant.

Nor do I...
Nevertheless, if the God revealed in the Old Testament is the selfsame God as revealed in the New Testament and they have the exact same character, then one naturally understands that God is either indifferent to the taking of animal life in the form of sacrifices or that He actually is quite particular about it.
 
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Carl Emerson

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Nevertheless, if the God revealed in the Old Testament is the selfsame God as revealed in the New Testament and they have the exact same character, then one naturally understands that God is either indifferent to the taking of animal life in the form of sacrifices or that He actually is quite particular about it.

He cares about animals - read the last verse of Jonah.
 
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bbbbbbb

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He cares about animals - read the last verse of Jonah.
Yes, and no. Yes, there is no doubt that as part of His creation, He cares for everything, including humans and animals. No, He did clearly command the sacrifice of animals in various forms of offerings in the Old Testament. It is not at all unreasonable to think that God could have commanded only fruit and grain offerings when, in fact, fruit and grain offerings are distinctly presented as inferior to animal offerings. Likewise, if God cared for people equally, then all would be saved, would they not?
 
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Strong in Him

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Likewise, if God cared for people equally, then all would be saved, would they not?
People have minds, and wills, of their own. We can choose to accept Jesus, listen to God, read his word, pray etc, or not.
God is love - for a definition of love see 1 Corinthians 13:4-7.
 
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Carl Emerson

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Yes, and no. Yes, there is no doubt that as part of His creation, He cares for everything, including humans and animals. No, He did clearly command the sacrifice of animals in various forms of offerings in the Old Testament. It is not at all unreasonable to think that God could have commanded only fruit and grain offerings when, in fact, fruit and grain offerings are distinctly presented as inferior to animal offerings. Likewise, if God cared for people equally, then all would be saved, would they not?
Yes, and no.
God's compassion for animals is clearly stated in Jonah.
 
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bbbbbbb

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God's commpassion for animals is specifically recorded on

God's compassion for animals is clearly stated in Jonah.
It is indeed. One verse taken out of context does not a doctrine make. The fact remains that God not only specified which animals Israel could kill and eat, as well as the fact that they could not be consumed raw or rare, but also which animals were required to be killed and sacrificed on Jewish alters.

It seems to me that killing is pretty much the antonym of compassion.
 
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bbbbbbb

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People have minds, and wills, of their own. We can choose to accept Jesus, listen to God, read his word, pray etc, or not.
God is love - for a definition of love see 1 Corinthians 13:4-7.
There is common grace, which God shows to His entire creation, but salvation is not common grace. It requires very specific beliefs and actions. God does, indeed, love all of His creation, including humankind, but His love is tightly limited. Hence, He does not entangle Himself in the results of sin - sickness, pain, death, woe, etc., except for very rare miracles, which are the exception rather than the rule of His love.
 
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Strong in Him

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There is common grace, which God shows to His entire creation,
True.
but salvation is not common grace. It requires very specific beliefs and actions.
It requires accepting Jesus. John 1:12, John 6:40, John 14:6, Matthew 26:28, Luke 19:10, Acts 4:12, Romans 10:13.
but His love is tightly limited.
Scripture?
Hence, He does not entangle Himself in the results of sin - sickness, pain, death, woe, etc., except for very rare miracles, which are the exception rather than the rule of His love.
He "entangled himself in our sin" to the extent that he sent his spotless Son to be born into a sinful world, and die so that we could be forgiven and reconciled to him.
God forgives our sin, he helps, encourages, guides, comforts us and can heal and answer our prayers.

I don't know how you define "miracle" - to me, each new day is a miracle. Childbirth is a miracle. A sinner/prisoner/adherent of another religion coming to faith in Christ, is a miracle.
That he still loves me, even after my doubts, fears, unbelief and so on, is a miracle - and that was before he healed me, overnight, from M.E.
 
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bbbbbbb

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True.

It requires accepting Jesus. John 1:12, John 6:40, John 14:6, Matthew 26:28, Luke 19:10, Acts 4:12, Romans 10:13.

Scripture?

He "entangled himself in our sin" to the extent that he sent his spotless Son to be born into a sinful world, and die so that we could be forgiven and reconciled to him.
God forgives our sin, he helps, encourages, guides, comforts us and can heal and answer our prayers.

I don't know how you define "miracle" - to me, each new day is a miracle. Childbirth is a miracle. A sinner/prisoner/adherent of another religion coming to faith in Christ, is a miracle.
That he still loves me, even after my doubts, fears, unbelief and so on, is a miracle - and that was before he healed me, overnight, from M.E.
God, indeed, does all of these things for His covenant people. For those who are not believers in Jesus Christ, God is under no obligation to do anything other than those things which He does as part of common grace.

To put that into perspective for you, the vast majority of mankind are lost and will be lost eternally simply because they do not (and cannot) believe in Jesus Christ. The vast majority of mankind, both living and dead, will never ever even hear the name of Jesus Christ, much less know what it is to exercise faith in Him.

As you yourself say, God can heal. As we all know, Christians do get sick and eventually die, but God does not miraculously heal all Christians all of the time. He is able to do so, but does not do so. Do you have any ideas why that is?
 
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Carl Emerson

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It is indeed. One verse taken out of context does not a doctrine make. The fact remains that God not only specified which animals Israel could kill and eat, as well as the fact that they could not be consumed raw or rare, but also which animals were required to be killed and sacrificed on Jewish alters.

It seems to me that killing is pretty much the antonym of compassion.
Good theology takes into account the whole of scripture - not just the verses that suit.

Do you think God was not loving when He directly initiated the killing of Herod, Ananias and his wife and many others?
 
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bbbbbbb

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Good theology takes into account the whole of scripture - not just the verses that suit.

Do you think God was not loving when He directly initiated the killing of Herod, Ananias and his wife and many others?
I rather doubt that Herod considered the Hebrew God to be loving. However, when Herod (not the same one) called for the slaughter of all the male infants in Jerusalem, I suppose God was none too pleased. Likewise, Pharaoh had a curious relationship with God. I imagine that the Egyptians who went to bed on the night of the Passover and awoke to find their first-born dead in the morning, did not consider the Hebrew God to be overly affectionate toward them, if, in fact, they were able to make the connection between the death of their sons and the Hebrew God. In fact, the Hebrew God specifically commanded the slaughter of lambs to provide fresh blood to apply to the lintels and jambs of the Hebrews' doors. Was it a particularly loving act to slaughter a newborn lamb?
 
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Carl Emerson

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I rather doubt that Herod considered the Hebrew God to be loving. However, when Herod (not the same one) called for the slaughter of all the male infants in Jerusalem, I suppose God was none too pleased. Likewise, Pharaoh had a curious relationship with God. I imagine that the Egyptians who went to bed on the night of the Passover and awoke to find their first-born dead in the morning, did not consider the Hebrew God to be overly affectionate toward them, if, in fact, they were able to make the connection between the death of their sons and the Hebrew God. In fact, the Hebrew God specifically commanded the slaughter of lambs to provide fresh blood to apply to the lintels and jambs of the Hebrews' doors. Was it a particularly loving act to slaughter a newborn lamb?
These are good questions that question our definition of what Love is.
 
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Strong in Him

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God, indeed, does all of these things for His covenant people. For those who are not believers in Jesus Christ, God is under no obligation to do anything other than those things which He does as part of common grace.
God is not "under obligation" to do anything.
He drove Adam and Eve from the garden after they sinned, but he also made them clothes from animal skins. He did not give up with them and destroy them. He punished, forgave and restored the Israelites again and again after their disobedience - he didn't have to do any of that.

To put that into perspective for you, the vast majority of mankind are lost and will be lost eternally simply because they do not (and cannot) believe in Jesus Christ.
They are lost, certainly. Whether they will be eternally lost after they die depends on how God judges them.
If someone has never heard the Gospel, I do not believe God will judge unfavourably or condemn them. Likewise, if they "cannot" believe. God knows their hearts and whether or not they have truly been given a chance to accept his Son.
And no, I'm not a universalist. I just don't believe God will punish someone who has genuinely not heard about his and his saving love through Christ.
The vast majority of mankind, both living and dead, will never ever even hear the name of Jesus Christ, much less know what it is to exercise faith in Him.
The vast majority will never hear of Jesus?
What evidence do you have for that; considering the number of languages the Bible has now been translated into, considering missions work overseas, considering the many, many resources - films, music or Christian books that are now available?

And if someone has no idea what it means to exercise faith in Jesus, why do you believe God will condemn them for something they do not know?
He might have something to say to US - we who have been told to go into the world to preach the Good News. We who have been told to pray for everyone, including our enemies. But how could someone be at fault if the Good News had never reached them?
As you yourself say, God can heal.
Can and does - either through direct, miraculous intervention, or through doctors and medicine. This latter method is still healing.
As we all know, Christians do get sick and eventually die, but God does not miraculously heal all Christians all of the time. He is able to do so, but does not do so.
But that doesn't mean that he can't, or won't, heal at all.

Some Christians seem to have a limited definition of healing - they regard it only as miraculous intervention by God. I've seen it on these very forums over the years; healing through doctors and medicine is sometimes dismissed as "natural recovery", "not really healing" or "it doesn't count." Yet God has given people the ability to discover, and create, medicines, train as medics and so on.

There are many, many testimonies of Christians being miraculously healed - and many more of God answering prayer, guiding, comforting.
So I don't know where you get your idea about God "not entangling himself in the results of sin."
 
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bbbbbbb

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God is not "under obligation" to do anything.
He drove Adam and Eve from the garden after they sinned, but he also made them clothes from animal skins. He did not give up with them and destroy them. He punished, forgave and restored the Israelites again and again after their disobedience - he didn't have to do any of that.
God is, indeed, under obligation not to destroy the world again by a flood. He made the covenant and, as a sign, set His bow in the sky. God has placed Himself in a similar position regarding various provisions for His creation.
They are lost, certainly. Whether they will be eternally lost after they die depends on how God judges them.
If someone has never heard the Gospel, I do not believe God will judge unfavourably or condemn them. Likewise, if they "cannot" believe. God knows their hearts and whether or not they have truly been given a chance to accept his Son.
You are certainly free to believe as you wish. Scripture is quite blunt about the fact that there is salvation in no one else than Jesus Christ and without faith in Him there is no salvation. The reality is that, as in the days of Noah when all except eight folks were destroyed in the Flood, so also those whom are not saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ will be lost. If, as Jesus said, when He returns it will be as it was as in the days of Noah, we ought not to expect large numbers of folks to be saved.
And no, I'm not a universalist. I just don't believe God will punish someone who has genuinely not heard about his and his saving love through Christ.
Again, you are assuredly free to believe whatever you wish.
The vast majority will never hear of Jesus?
What evidence do you have for that; considering the number of languages the Bible has now been translated into, considering missions work overseas, considering the many, many resources - films, music or Christian books that are now available?
One example might suffice. The Danish Bible Society translated the Bible into Urdu, the national language of Pakistan, in the nineteenth century and then printed 5,000 copies, believing their task was completed. Today, one can purchase an Urdu Bible for $90 USD. Do you know how many folks in Pakistan can afford to purchase a Bible in Urdu? How many folks in Pakistan are even literate in Urdu? The fact that it is a crime deserving the death penalty for a Muslim to convert to any other religion in Pakistan? Until the end of the twentieth century the demand was so minimal for Urdu Bibles, that the original print run of 5,000 had not been sold out.
And if someone has no idea what it means to exercise faith in Jesus, why do you believe God will condemn them for something they do not know?
Of course. Ignorance is no excuse in the sight of the law, as we believe. Also, everyone is considered to be innocent until proven guilty. According to the Bible (Psalms 14 and 53 and Romans 3) there is none righteous, not even one. In God's sight all are guilty and none are innocent.
He might have something to say to US - we who have been told to go into the world to preach the Good News. We who have been told to pray for everyone, including our enemies. But how could someone be at fault if the Good News had never reached them?
That is an excellent question. How can someone be held at fault who lacks the mental capacity to understand the gospel? How can those who die prematurely before encountering the gospel be held accountable?
Can and does - either through direct, miraculous intervention, or through doctors and medicine. This latter method is still healing.
The fact remains that God does not heal each and every person all of the time, nor does He intervene in everybody's life to save them from physical illness and death.
But that doesn't mean that he can't, or won't, heal at all.
True enough.
Some Christians seem to have a limited definition of healing - they regard it only as miraculous intervention by God. I've seen it on these very forums over the years; healing through doctors and medicine is sometimes dismissed as "natural recovery", "not really healing" or "it doesn't count." Yet God has given people the ability to discover, and create, medicines, train as medics and so on.
Again, quite true.
There are many, many testimonies of Christians being miraculously healed - and many more of God answering prayer, guiding, comforting.
So I don't know where you get your idea about God "not entangling himself in the results of sin."
When physical death, which is the wages of sin, is fully eliminated by God, then we will know with a certainty that God has, indeed, entangled Himself with the wages of sin. In the meantime, God has yet to spare anyone from those wages.

We can, however, put a spiritual spin on it, and define death in purely spiritual terms. God, through Jesus Christ, has eliminated the second death for believers, albeit not the first death. Mary Baker Eddy ran with that notion and eliminated the idea that there is anything that is physical. In Christian Science all is spiritual, so that the cessation of activity in this realm is not at all death.
 
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Carl Emerson

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When physical death, which is the wages of sin, is fully eliminated by God, then we will know with a certainty that God has, indeed, entangled Himself with the wages of sin. In the meantime, God has yet to spare anyone from those wages.

How about Moses on the mount - clearly saved by the timeless event of the Cross, and in his glorious body, yet a murderer. Saved by the blood of Jesus which broke the curse of the law that demanded eternal death. And I don't expect Moses and Elijah are the only resurrected saints in eternity already...
 
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