Hebrews 2:14 Why does satan seem to win ?

[Der Alte]

Matt 12:32 in your scripture does have the age or the one to come or the age to come?

That is true but the word aion only occurs one time.

Matthew 12:32​

(32) And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this [aion] world, neither in the .... to come. The translator added the second word "world."​

We can note that the writer does not define the word "aion." Thus It can be figurative or hyperbole.
An example of aionios being defined.

John 3:16​

(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting [aionios] life.​

"aionios life" means "should not perish life" I'm quite sure Jesus did not mean "should not die" since.

Hebrews 9:27​

(27) And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:​

 

[Der Alte]

Matt 12:32 in your scripture does have the age or the one to come or the age to come?

I can make my post simpler if you are having trouble understanding it.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

In the age to come, in the future,
even in the future on earth still while people are still alive,
they/we will see , and have seen today, those who promote UR cursed, as God Says Plainly.

They are without Christ and without hope in the world. (and no hope for life in the future life)

Why? Because of their hidden sin as well as open seen sin. Unrepentant sin. Devastating sin. Daily sin.

So you believe I am going to hell because I believe CUR ? So I am going to stand before God and he is going to ask me - did you believe in your heart that Jesus died for your sin and you believe in your heart Jesus is Lord and you confessed this with your tongue? I say yes and God says you’re going to hell for believing that I am more loving than I am. Yes are you not infinite love , yes, then how can anything I believe about your love be greater than infinity? It can’t so why are you sending me to hell ? Because you didn’t believe that I would torture my creation, made in my own image, for all eternity so you must go there. If that’s the god you worship , no thanks , I will worship the God who became human and declared, I am Jesus savior of the world, lived a sinless life and died on the cross. And Jesus said “ If I be lifted up I will drag all men unto me” so if you think that sends you to hell , fine by me , my God doesn’t do abandonment, he said “Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord. So this is why I am going to hell?

 

[Jeff Saunders]

I can make my post simpler if you are having trouble understanding it.

I wish you would be intellectually honest because I can’t believe you can’t understand this . Here is an example that is very simple- if I said I was going to town this week and the next. The “week “ and the next are the same , not the same wording but anyone who can think would understand the the “next “ was week also . It’s not that hard , but I think you know that but you keep obscuring the subject because it doesn’t fit your preconceived tradition.

 

[timothyu]

Actions speak louder than words. What we want from God we must first give to others.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

God will not ask you anything. For now God Says plainly He does not even listen to your prayers. He Says in His Word you are already condemned because of unbelief in Jesus. (all those who believe in truth, in Jesus, do not accept the false gospel you have repeatedly promoted and obviously been deceived by)

It is because of false gospel to be condemned. UR is totally false gospel. No discussion with those who bring false gospel.

Well I am glad I will. be judged by Jesus and not you . You still have not told me what you think is false in my thinking. Show me why I am wrong. What is the gospel in your opinion? If you can’t do that that’s ok , but we are told that we should be able to give an account of what we believe, the very thing that I try to do , from you all I see is accusations no reason why you think I am wrong. Even Paul talked to pagans, which you think I am . So tell me what is the gospel?

 

[Der Alte]

Matt 12:32 in your scripture does have the age or the one to come or the age to come?

The vss. which I quoted and which I was discussing above, not Matt 12:32

Matthew 7:21-23​

(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.​

(22) Many [NOT a few] will say to me in that day, [judgement day] Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?​

(23) And then [judgement day] will I [Jesus] profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.​

When Jesus says "never' He does not mean some day by an by. I can think of a few TV personalities who fit vs. 22. Back in the '80s I applied for a job with one of them before I learned what they actually were.
To which you replied. "Yes that’s true for this age." A word for "age" does not occur in Matt 7:21-23. thus it is false to interject the word "age."

 

[Der Alte]

Matt 12:32 in your scripture does have the age or the one to come or the age to come?

That is true but the word aion only occurs one time.

Matthew 12:32​

(32) And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this [aion] world, neither in the .... to come. The translator added the word "world."​

We can note that the writer does not define the word "aion." Thus It can be figurative. I don't have a problem when the word "aionios" or "aion" occurs in the text. But when either word does not occur in the text and someone claims something refers to the next age etc.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

That is true but the word aion only occurs one time.

Matthew 12:32​

(32) And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this [aion] world, neither in the .... to come. The translator added the word "world."​

We can note that the writer does not define the word "aion." Thus It can be figurative. I don't have a problem when the word "aionios" or "aion" occurs in the text. But when either word does not occur in the text and someone claims something refers to the next age etc.

So according to your definition it should read neither in this eternity , neither in the ? To come . How can there be anything after eternity? I find it interesting that every place Aion is mistranslated as world you conveniently say it’s figurative. So now it’s my turn to say to you what’s your proof it’s figurative, show reference and scholarship on that please.

 

[Der Alte]

So according to your definition it should read neither in this eternity , neither in the ? To come . How can there be anything after eternity? I find it interesting that every place Aion is mistranslated as world you conveniently say it’s figurative. So now it’s my turn to say to you what’s your proof it’s figurative, show reference and scholarship on that please.

Luke 1:33​

(33) And he shall reign [basileuw verb] over the house of Jacob for ever; [unto aion] and of his kingdom [basilea noun.] there shall be no end.​

John 10:28​

(28) And I give unto them eternal [aionios] life; and they shall never [not never unto aion] perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.​

aion means not never perish and no man can pluck them out of my [God's] hand

Hebrews 7:24​

(24) But this man, because he continueth ever, [unto aion] hath an unchangeable priesthood.​

Continues unto aion means unchangeable.

1 Peter 1:23​

(23) Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.​

incorruptible and lives and abides unto aion eternity

1 John 2:17​

(17) And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.​

The world passes away but he that does the will of God abides unto aion.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Luke 1:33​

(33) And he shall reign [basileuw verb] over the house of Jacob for ever; [unto aion] and of his kingdom [basilea noun.] there shall be no end.​

John 10:28​

(28) And I give unto them eternal [aionios] life; and they shall never [not never unto aion] perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.​

aion means not never perish and no man can pluck them out of my [God's] hand

Hebrews 7:24​

(24) But this man, because he continueth ever, [unto aion] hath an unchangeable priesthood.​

Continues unto aion means unchangeable.

1 Peter 1:23​

(23) Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.​

incorruptible and lives and abides unto aion eternity

1 John 2:17​

(17) And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.​

The world passes away but he that does the will of God abides unto aion.

That didn’t answer my question.

 

[Der Alte]

That didn’t answer my question.

If you don't like what scripture says take it up with God. I only quoted what was written. Most unfortunate that scripture as written does not agree with your beliefs.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

If you don't like what scripture says take it up with God. I only quoted what was written. Most unfortunate that scripture as written does not agree with your beliefs.

Whose definition as written are you talking about, there are a number of literal translations that you reject. You should say as written and approved by me.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

If you don't like what scripture says take it up with God. I only quoted what was written. Most unfortunate that scripture as written does not agree with your beliefs.

So when scripture says “the hand of God” or when Jesus is called” the lamb of God “ do you really think God has hands and Jesus is a sheep? Scripture has symbolic, metaphorical, and figurative language throughout and we are all trying to figure it out. God being jealous is just that not literal but one of the others. If you don’t know Gods character and nature it is much harder to come to the correct conclusions.

 

[Hoping2]

In Hebrews 2:14 Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is , the devil. (NASB) / … that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil. (KJV) Why does satan “win” more people than Jesus when this verse to me says that Jesus defeated satan by the cross? Why do you believe satan is more powerful than Jesus? If you say man’s free will is why satan has more then why is man’s free will more powerful than the one who created him? Either Jesus defeated satan or he didn’t, you can’t have it both ways. Yes Jesus won the victory he trampled over satan and won a few , how great a savior, he saved a few. Either Jesus won or he didn’t and losing most of what he created is not winning.

Jesus did defeat the devil, who had the power of death.
But if one is not "IN" Jesus, that victory is not transferable.
Only those who maintain an allegiance to the devil, will be destroyed with him on the day of judgement.

 

[Der Alte]

Whose definition as written are you talking about, there are a number of literal translations that you reject. You should say as written and approved by me.

Jewish Publication Society JPS for the Old Testament and the Eastern Greek Orthodox EOB for the New Testament. Plus I have BDAG and BDB lexicons.

 

[Der Alte]

So when scripture says “the hand of God” or when Jesus is called” the lamb of God “ do you really think God has hands and Jesus is a sheep? Scripture has symbolic, metaphorical, and figurative language throughout and we are all trying to figure it out. God being jealous is just that not literal but one of the others. If you don’t know Gods character and nature it is much harder to come to the correct conclusions.

Even when God Himself is quoted as speaking you would rather rely on your own assumptions/presuppositions? Most unfortunate.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Jesus did defeat the devil, who had the power of death.
But if one is not "IN" Jesus, that victory is not transferable.
Only those who maintain an allegiance to the devil, will be destroyed with him on the day of judgement.

Hebrews 2:14 that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death. / Col 2:15 Jesus disarmed the rulers In heavenly places / Rom 16:20 Jesus crushed satan under his feet. Those verses seem to disagree with the statement “ Jesus did defeat satan it is a fact but no place does it say that it is not effective if you don’t believe that he did. Just as scripture says 2 Cor 2:15 Jesus died for all , therefore all died. Jesus died for all , now most do not come to that reality until the next age , but just because most don’t walk in that reality now doesn’t negate what has been done.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Even when God Himself is quoted as speaking you would rather rely on your own assumptions/presuppositions? Most unfortunate.

So you believe God has hands ? And Jesus is a sheep? When I read what has been posted it seems that is what I see you saying.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Jewish Publication Society JPS for the Old Testament and the Eastern Greek Orthodox EOB for the New Testament. Plus I have BDAG and BDB lexicons.

So are all other translations wrong?