Hebrews 2:14 Why does satan seem to win ?

[Jeff Saunders]

In Hebrews 2:14 Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is , the devil. (NASB) / … that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil. (KJV) Why does satan “win” more people than Jesus when this verse to me says that Jesus defeated satan by the cross? Why do you believe satan is more powerful than Jesus? If you say man’s free will is why satan has more then why is man’s free will more powerful than the one who created him? Either Jesus defeated satan or he didn’t, you can’t have it both ways. Yes Jesus won the victory he trampled over satan and won a few , how great a savior, he saved a few. Either Jesus won or he didn’t and losing most of what he created is not winning.

 

[Der Alte]

In Hebrews 2:14 Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is , the devil. (NASB) / … that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil. (KJV) Why does satan “win” more people than Jesus when this verse to me says that Jesus defeated satan by the cross? Why do you believe satan is more powerful than Jesus? If you say man’s free will is why satan has more then why is man’s free will more powerful than the one who created him? Either Jesus defeated satan or he didn’t, you can’t have it both ways. Yes Jesus won the victory he trampled over satan and won a few , how great a savior, he saved a few. Either Jesus won or he didn’t and losing most of what he created is not winning.

Does your Bible have these vss. in Hebrews?

Hebrews 6:4-6​

(4) For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit,​

(5) and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come,​

(6) and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.​

 

[Aaron112]

See how easy it is for satan to win , to utterly deceive people who won't repent, who believe in ur.

Satan's victory over them is because of their blindness and their willingness to stay blind, or if they repented they could be free. Whatever sin in their lives is preventing their coming to the light , it works that way, to keep them in darkness (forever). Unless they get set free.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Does your Bible have these vss. in Hebrews?

Hebrews 6:4-6​

(4) For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit,​

(5) and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come,​

(6) and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.​

Yes that’s a great verse . The key is the part that says “have tasted of the goodness of the word of God and the powers of THE AGE TO COME” if you reject Jesus in this age falling away because you don’t understand the powers of the age to come , you won’t be “saved” in this age . I agree 100% . Those people have seen and tasted the goodness of God and went back into the worlds system and if they die in that stance they will be judged as not following Jesus and have to be corrected in the next age.

 

[Der Alte]

Yes that’s a great verse . The key is the part that says “have tasted of the goodness of the word of God and the powers of THE AGE TO COME” if you reject Jesus in this age falling away because you don’t understand the powers of the age to come , you won’t be “saved” in this age . I agree 100% . Those people have seen and tasted the goodness of God and went back into the worlds system and if they die in that stance they will be judged as not following Jesus and have to be corrected in the next age.

Sorry amigo I quit reading at the word "age." The writer of Hebrews said nothing about "age" in that vs. The word age occurs twice in Hebrews and both times it refer to the age of person.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Sorry amigo I quit reading at the word "age." The writer of Hebrews said nothing about "age" in that vs. The word age occurs twice in Hebrews and both times it refer to the age of person.

Look at your post I quoted it as you posted, it says age to came.

 

[Der Alte]

Look at your post I quoted it as you posted, it says age to came.

You added four more "ages." which the writer of Hebrews did NOT say.

"if you reject Jesus in this age falling away because you don’t understand the powers of the age to come , you won’t be “saved” in this age . I agree 100% . Those people have seen and tasted the goodness of God and went back into the worlds system and if they die in that stance they will be judged as not following Jesus and have to be corrected in the next age."​

I'm still looking for the scripture which teaches post death salvation.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

See how easy it is for satan to win , to utterly deceive people who won't repent, who believe in ur.

Satan's victory over them is because of their blindness and their willingness to stay blind, or if they repented they could be free. Whatever sin in their lives is preventing their coming to the light , it works that way, to keep them in darkness (forever). Unless they get set free.

Please show me why I am wrong! All I see is complaints about what you do not understand. If you think this UR is so dangerous please state why, don’t just complain. I have yet to see a post from you explaining why you think we are wrong.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

You added four more "ages." which the writer of Hebrews did NOT say.

"if you reject Jesus in this age falling away because you don’t understand the powers of the age to come , you won’t be “saved” in this age . I agree 100% . Those people have seen and tasted the goodness of God and went back into the worlds system and if they die in that stance they will be judged as not following Jesus and have to be corrected in the next age."​

I'm still looking for the scripture which teaches post death salvation.

As I am looking for those who say you can’t. Will you provide them? Don’t say Hebrews says It’s appointed for man to die once and then the judgement. I agree 100% with that but I don’t equate judgement as the same as the punishment they are two different things.

 

[Der Alte]

As I am looking for those who say you can’t. Will you provide them? Don’t say Hebrews says It’s appointed for man to die once and then the judgement. I agree 100% with that but I don’t equate judgement as the same as the punishment they are two different things.

So the judgement according to Jeff does not result in any penalty or reward?

 

[Jeff Saunders]

So the judgement according to Jeff does not result in any penalty or reward?

That’s not what I said . The judgement is not the same as the punishment. Just like our justice system. You are judged after that the sentencing. This is not hard to understand.

 

[Der Alte]

That’s not what I said . The judgement is not the same as the punishment. Just like our justice system. You are judged after that the sentencing. This is not hard to understand.

I agree with that.

Matthew 7:21-23​

(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.​

(22) Many [NOT a few] will say to me in that day,[judgement day] Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?​

(23) And then [judgement day] will I [Jesus] profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.​

When Jesus says "never' He does not mean some day by an by. I can think of a few TV personalities who fit vs. 22. Back in the '80s I applied for a job with one of them before I learned what they actually were.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

I agree with that.

Matthew 7:21-23​

(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.​

(22) Many [NOT a few] will say to me in that day,[judgement day] Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?​

(23) And then [judgement day] will I [Jesus] profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.​

When Jesus says "never' He does not mean some day by an by. I can think of a few TV personalities who fit vs. 22. Back in the '80s I applied for a job with one of them before I learned what they actually were.

Yes that’s true for this age.

 

[timothyu]

As far as humans go, the Adversary only has the power we give it by being adversarial also. If we are not willingly selfish also, it has no power over us individually. That is why God said put His will first, not ours, as ours is fickle. The 2nd commandment keeps us off the adversarial path as serving others does not serve self. So the Adversary seems to win simply because copycat man acts in unison with the Adversary and not God and they are always in the majority. But the Adversary has already lost because this world will be no more, and it has no place in the Kingdom to come. Jobless and homeless.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

As far as humans go, the Adversary only has the power we give it by being adversarial also. If we are not willingly selfish also, it has no power over us individually. That is why God said put His will first, not ours, as ours is fickle. The 2nd commandment keeps us off the adversarial path as serving others does not serve self. So the Adversary seems to win simply because copycat man acts in unison with the Adversary and not God and they are always in the majority. But the Adversary has already lost because this world will be no more, and it has no place in the Kingdom to come. Jobless and homeless.

How has the adversary lost if you believe in ECT ? According that idea God only “wins” a very small percentage of the humans he created and satan gets the lion share of humanity. That’s not winning in my book. Also if satan is defeated why does he get more people than God? That sounds more like satan winning to me.

 

[Der Alte]

Yes that’s true for this age.

Except for one tiny point nowhere in this passage does Jesus, who is speaking, say anything about the current or subsequent age or ages. As a matter of fact, the word age only occurs 7 times in the gospels and is never spoken by Jesus. Each time it occurs it refers to the age of a person/persons. This seems to occur a lot the word "age/s" seems to get inserted a lot where it does not occur in the text.

 

[timothyu]

How has the adversary lost if you believe in ECT ? According that idea God only “wins” a very small percentage of the humans he created and satan gets the lion share of humanity. That’s not winning in my book. Also if satan is defeated why does he get more people than God? That sounds more like satan winning to me.

The path is narrow not only because it is easy, but also less trodden. Think of all the people pre-Jesus who never heard of the kingdom or resurrection. Their merit is based on their attitude, selfishness or servitude to each other. The grain in the field is few compared to the tares. It's not so much a matter of the Adversary winning or losing, because if we think of it as the Tempter of Hebrew lore, it is just doing its job as it did with Jesus in the desert. this has always been a battle between the adversarial spirit and the spirit of servitude. The adversarial spirit ultimately loses as it will have no place in the Kingdom. The tares were never welcome either as it would have taken them little effort to act in servitude rather than selfishly. They've been warned since the Garden.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Except for one tiny point nowhere in this passage does Jesus, who is speaking, say anything about the current or subsequent age or ages. As a matter of fact, the word age only occurs 7 times in the gospels and is never spoken by Jesus. Each time it occurs it refers to the age of a person/persons. This seems to occur a lot the word "age/s" seems to get inserted a lot where it does not occur in the text.

In my Bible Aion is in a lot of verses, maybe you need to get a better Bible. My Bible says that blasphemy against the Holy Spirt is not forgiven in this age or the next. This would be hard if there is no next age.

 

[Der Alte]

In my Bible Aion is in a lot of verses, maybe you need to get a better Bible. My Bible says that blasphemy against the Holy Spirt is not forgiven in this age or the next. This would be hard if there is no next age.

"aion," a noun is NOT the same as "aionios," an adjective. Again if "age" occurs in the text, no problem. But I do object when "age," "this age", "the next age" etc. does not occur in the text but is inserted to make the text say something the writer did not say. Is "aion" ever defined as a period of time less than eternity? I know the answer.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

"aion," a noun is NOT the same as "aionios," an adjective. Again if "age" occurs in the text, no problem. But I do object when "age," "this age", "the next age" etc. does not occur in the text but is inserted to make the text say something the writer did not say. Is "aion" ever defined as a period of time less than eternity? I know the answer.

Matt 12:32 in your scripture does have the age or the one to come or the age to come?