Tom Homan Fires Back at Pope Francis for Calling Mass Deportations a ‘Disgrace’

[ozso]

The Holy Family fled to Egypt as refugees. Imagine if Trump had been Pharaoh guarding the gates. Salvation derailed!
I understand that there is rampant disinformation about immigrants. Statistically they commit fewer crimes than the general population.
The current president campaigned on hate and fear, of LGBTQ and immigrants. The typical immigrants are young marrieds with slightly more children than the rest of us. Churchgoing--that's a historic and current trait of immigrants.
Yes, there are bad immigrants--and bad native-born Americans.
In the same vein, lots of LGBTQ are parents, workers, professionals. My cousin's son adopted twin boys with his partner. They are loved and enjoying a happy secure childhood.
I don't decide who is good or bad based on the fear-mongering of political candidates. I learn for myself, through relationships with diverse friends.
Immigrants are almost all good people with bad options in untenable situations.
Like my grandparents...or yours.

Obama deported illegal immigrants to the point where he was nicknamed "Deporter-in-Chief". According to NPR Obama's administration deported more than 3 million people. Did you protest that as much as you're protesting this?

 

[chevyontheriver]

No.

No, but sentencing must be just. If we can confine a murderer, to protect innocent people, then the death penalty is not just

Depends.

Aha! You admit that crimes should have consequences, just consequences but nonetheless consequences. You waver a bit but you have admitted it. Is it therefore immoral to find and deport illegal aliens that have committed other crimes in this country? Is it immoral to deport illegal aliens that are members of violent foreign gangs? Are we a nation of laws that has an actual border like the Vatican has, where you get arrested for illegal entry you go to prison. The Vatican has walls and if you climb over them they catch you and incarcerate you. Is that immoral?

 

[chevyontheriver]

The same as he should do to all people.

Help them go home?

 

[Yarddog]

This isn't sentencing. It's simply sending them back over the border they illegally crossed.

Many of these people fled very harsh conditions. Sending them back isn't simple.

I have known many immigrants, both legal and illegal. I haven't met one that was a bad person and most of the money, that they made, was sent home to their families.

Many would return home and return the next year. But, some can't do that because of harsh conditions at home.

Each should be evaluated separately. There is no compassion when we are sending people back to die.

 

[ozso]

The same as he should do to all people.

It sounds like you don't know what you're talking about and you're just virtue signaling.

 

[ozso]

Many of these people fled very harsh conditions. Sending them back isn't simple.

I have known many immigrants, both legal and illegal. I haven't met one that was a bad person and most of the money, that they made, was sent home to their families.

Many would return home and return the next year. But, some can't do that because of harsh conditions at home.

Each should be evaluated separately. There is no compassion when we are sending people back to die.

Name the place they came from where they'll die if they're sent back to it.

 

[chevyontheriver]

I'm sure they can.

I would say no. The Episcopal Bishop did a good job in her sermon at Trump's inaugural prayer service, when she asked Trump to be merciful to immigrants. Most are very law biding after entry. They provide the US with many services.

You fail to distinguish between legal immigrants and illegal immigrants. There IS an ACTUAL difference. Legal immigrants work and pay taxes and contribute a great deal to this country. They sought out how to have the appropriate papers to either have a valid visa or a green card or even citizenship. On the other hand we have people who have entered illegally and whose remaining here is a continued crime. Some of these people are members of violent gangs. Some of them are foreign agents. Some are true refugees. They deserve consideration. The rest of the illegals should be expelled, kindly expelled of course, but expelled so they can try legal entry again.

 

[Yarddog]

Aha! You admit that crimes should have consequences, just consequences but nonetheless consequences. You waver a bit but you have admitted it.

Aha! I haven't changed anything. You finally read something, instead of assuming something.

Is it therefore immoral to find and deport illegal aliens that have committed other crimes in this country?

Depends on what crimes they committed. Most illegals came here legally both didn't go back after their Visa expired. They liked it here and didn't want to go back.

Is it immoral to deport illegal aliens that are members of violent foreign gangs?

I don't know all situations but I'd say no to most.

Are we a nation of laws that has an actual border like the Vatican has, where you get arrested for illegal entry you go to prison.

The Vatican has open borders with Italy. People can come and go without passports, of course, they are needed to enter Italy, that doesn't have open borders. There is a lot of misinformation out there.

What does the Catholic Church teach about immigration and immigrants?

The Catholic Church has long been an advocate and protector of immigrants.

www.catholicnewsagency.com

The Vatican has walls and if you climb over them they catch you and incarcerate you. Is that immoral?

There are restricted areas where one can be arrested for trying to enter. But if people are peaceful they can walk around in nonrestricted areas.

 

[chevyontheriver]

There is no compassion when we are sending people back to die.

There are people dying in the desert right now because they are trying to enter illegally. It is not merciful to allow them to be put at risk like that. They SHOULD try to enter legally. The border should be open to legal immigrants and closed to illegal immigrants. It's really kind of simple really. Now if you feel that immigration standards need to be changed, and they do need to be updated, then fine. But the rhetoric about beating up all immigrants and shipping them to their deaths in other countries by bad Trumpists is just a bit too much. I know the propaganda organs of the deep state are working overtime to get you and all immigrants scared witless but take a breath.

 

[Yarddog]

You fail to distinguish between legal immigrants and illegal immigrants. There IS an ACTUAL difference. Legal immigrants work and pay taxes and contribute a great deal to this country. They sought out how to have the appropriate papers to either have a valid visa or a green card or even citizenship. On the other hand we have people who have entered illegally and whose remaining here is a continued crime. Some of these people are members of violent gangs. Some of them are foreign agents. Some are true refugees. They deserve consideration. The rest of the illegals should be expelled, kindly expelled of course, but expelled so they can try legal entry again.

A person that enters the US, illegally, but turns themselves over to the Immigration service as fleeing and oppressive state becomes protected, under US law. The remain protected until they face an immigration judge, to see if the qualify as a refugee. It takes years, for many, to get a court date because immigration courts are so backed up.

Republicans have blocked attempts, by Democrats, to fix this matter by adding more judges to deal with the backlog.

Those courts are supposed to find those that need protection and those that are criminals. They can deport the criminals humanely.

 

[chevyontheriver]

A person that enters the US, illegally, but turns themselves over to the Immigration service as fleeing and oppressive state becomes protected, under US law. The remain protected until they face an immigration judge, to see if the qualify as a refugee. It takes years, for many, to get a court date because immigration courts are so backed up.

These folks will eventually get a hearing. One presumes they keep their appointments.

Republicans have blocked attempts, by Democrats, to fix this matter by adding more judges to deal with the backlog.

And Democrats have blocked proposals by Republicans to fix the system. Neither party really wants the problem fixed enough to work with the other side. So we get cheap labor, not taxed, without payments for Social Security, where the people aren't guaranteed minimum wage and they can be cheated with abandon because they are too scared to go to the cops. That is a bipartisan problem and has a bipartisan cause. It is not just the evil Republicans. It's more.

Those courts are supposed to find those that need protection and those that are criminals. They can deport the criminals humanely.

Those seeking refugee status and showing up to all of their hearings are not the problem. It's the ones who skip out on their hearings, or cross illegally and never come to the authorities, or the gang members who slip across, or the foreign agents who slip across, or who knows who that slip across. There is good money being made by folks who risk the lives of these illegals, stuffing them in unventilated containers where they can die. The situation needs to stop. Joe Biden didn't have the guts or the compassion to stop it. Now you complain when someone finally wants to stop it.

 

[ozso]

Those courts are supposed to find those that need protection and those that are criminals. They can deport the criminals humanely.

What's being done now that's inhumane?

 

[Fantine]

We are holding workshops so immigrants know their rights. They are filling out authorizations so if they are deported during the school day their children are not thrown into foster care. They have had a meeting at the biggest Catholic church, and are having several immigration lawyers come and speak.
We took up a collection to pay the lawyers, who are very reasonable but need some expenses covered.
It doesn't sound very humane to me.
They are looking for board members but my Spanish is minimal and I am on a few boards already. I will help here and there.

 

[ozso]

Obama took immigration control seriously and deported millions.

Trump took immigration control seriously.

Biden and border czar Harris did the opposite of taking immigration control seriously.

So now Trump has to double up on immigration control.

 

[ozso]

We are holding workshops so immigrants know their rights. They are filling out authorizations so if they are deported during the school day their children are not thrown into foster care. They have had a meeting at the biggest Catholic church, and are having several immigration lawyers come and speak.
We took up a collection to pay the lawyers, who are very reasonable but need some expenses covered.
It doesn't sound very humane to me.
They are looking for board members but my Spanish is minimal and I am on a few boards already. I will help here and there.

Was anything like that done when Obama was deporting millions?

 

[Richard T]

President Donald Trump’s border czar Tom Homan fired back at Pope Francis on Friday for calling the new administration’s mass deportation program a “disgrace,” charging the pontiff to focus on problems within the Catholic Church instead.

Homan shows himself to be an amateur rather than a true statesman, because he violated the very thing the American founders and various Supreme Courts have ruled on in the past concerning the separation of church and state. He throws stones and takes sides against the Catholic church. It is not necessary nor is it the act of a true statesman to respond by pointing out negative things in a religion. It does not matter if it is true or not, it was simply unnecessary and incendiary. If Holman fights back against certain Catholic beliefs, it opens the door for the US government officials to decide on what other religious stances are correct or incorrect. A better approach would be to suggest he is simply following the law; no religious overture is even needed.

 

[ozso]

Homan shows himself to be an amateur rather than a true statesman, because he violated the very thing the American founders and various Supreme Courts have ruled on in the past concerning the separation of church and state. He throws stones and takes sides against the Catholic church. It is not necessary nor is it the act of a true statesman to respond by pointing out negative things in a religion. It does not matter if it is true or not, it was simply unnecessary and incendiary. If Holman fights back against certain Catholic beliefs, it opens the door for the US government officials to decide on what other religious stances are correct or incorrect. A better approach would be to suggest he is simply following the law; no religious overture is even needed.

Francis was ungracious in his attack calling Homan's efforts a disgrace. The Pope got back what he dished out.

 

[Richard T]

Francis was ungracious in his attack calling Homan's efforts a disgrace. The Pope got back what he dished out.

Ok, so evil for evil. Not biblical from my reading of the bible. Government leaders should rarely criticize other's religions. The law certainly speaks for itself. The extra is to manage part of the Catholic church and it's affairs and beliefs? If you want divisive government this will just get worse. "Us versus them" is a poor plan.

 

[ozso]

Ok, so evil for evil. Not biblical from my reading of the bible. Government leaders should rarely criticize other's religions. The law certainly speaks for itself. The extra is to manage part of the Catholic church and it's affairs and beliefs? If you want divisive government this will just get worse. "Us versus them" is a poor plan.

Please, they had a tiff.

 

[Richard T]

Please, they had a tiff.

To me it is just organized showmanship and authoritarianism. I personally do not like over-reaching government. Biden did it with Covid shots and harboring illegals. Trump now doing it with unconstitutional executive orders. (Birthright citizenship for instance) and uneeded bureaucratic action. Just another flavor of government overreach. Even if just a tiff it plants a seed and introduces enemies.