Tom Homan Fires Back at Pope Francis for Calling Mass Deportations a ‘Disgrace’

[Yarddog]

Again, asking for evidence Homan is a cafeteria Catholic.

If he doesn't believe in treating immigrants with mercy and love then he rejects Catholic teaching.

 

[chevyontheriver]

If he doesn't believe in treating immigrants with mercy and love then he rejects Catholic teaching.

What does it mean to you to treat immigrants with mercy and love? Does that mean approving of illegal immigration?

 

[mourningdove~]

If he doesn't believe in treating immigrants with mercy and love then he rejects Catholic teaching.

I hear your concern for mercy, but does the Catholic Church teach that breaking federal laws is okay?

I'm asking seriously.

Is it a sin, in the Catholic Church, to break the law and enter into a country illegally?

I would think it would be a sin, but perhaps I am mistaken.

 

[Fantine]

I hear your concern for mercy, but does the Catholic Church teach that breaking federal laws is okay?

I'm asking seriously.

Is it a sin, in the Catholic Church, to break the law and enter into a country illegally?

I would think it would be a sin, but perhaps I am mistaken.

Perhaps you should ask the Catholics who block abortion clinics instead of our good Pope. They have been flouting laws for years, and if they are justified, so are human rights activists.

 

[mourningdove~]

Perhaps you should ask the Catholics who block abortion clinics instead of our good Pope. They have been flouting laws for years, and if they are justified, so are human rights activists.

I don't understand what you are saying.

Can you tell me simply, if the Catholic Church considers breaking federal laws to be a sin?

Does the Catholic Church see those who illegally enter a country to be sinning?

I'm not asking a tricky question. I want to understand. I was raised traditional Catholic, with a strong sense of moral right and wrong, but will admit that I was never told that breaking a federal law was a sin. I assumed it would be, but am I wrong?

 

[mourningdove~]

If he doesn't believe in treating immigrants with mercy and love then he rejects Catholic teaching.

Help me to understand.

What I hear you saying is that an American Catholic has to decide whether to obey the rules of the country, or obey the pope.

Is that how it is for Catholics in America? Is that why there has always been concern about Catholics getting into government positions ... the fear that those Catholics in government will obey the pope rather than the laws of the country?

Applying that logic, then I can see why the pope and Biden got along so well during his presidency, and why those Catholics obeying the pope would have seen Biden as a good president. Biden was running immigration according to Catholic belief (in obedience to the pope), and not according to the laws of America.

... and if all that is so, then I can see how you would see Tom Homan as a cafeteria Catholic, because he is not obeying the pope.

 

[Fantine]

My own opinion is that non-violent civil disibedience in response to unjust or immoral laws is virtuous. Pro-lifers have done this for decades and resisting unjust deportations is in the same category.

 

[mourningdove~]

My own opinion is that non-violent civil disibedience in response to unjust or immoral laws is virtuous. Pro-lifers have done this for decades and resisting unjust deportations is in the same category.

Well, I appreciate your taking the time to respond, and hope that Yarddog will do so also.

You both sound very sincere about your faith; 'talking it out' is helping me to better understand your comments in these discussions.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Help me to understand.

What I hear you saying is that an American Catholic has to decide whether to obey the rules of the country, or obey the pope.

Is that how it is for Catholics in America? Is that why there has always been concern about Catholics getting into government positions ... the fear that those Catholics in government will obey the pope rather than the laws of the country?

Applying that logic, then I can see why the pope and Biden got along so well during his presidency, and why those Catholics obeying the pope would have seen Biden as a good president. Biden was running immigration according to Catholic belief (in obedience to the pope), and not according to the laws of America.

... and if all that is so, then I can see how you would see Tom Homan as a cafeteria Catholic, because he is not obeying the pope.

I think you should compare US immigration laws and the newly enacted immigration laws of the Vatican. At the Vatican they take illegal entry seriously. So seriously that they imprison illegal entrants, not just deporting them. The Vatican tells us that we are supposed to be merciful to illegal aliens but they are harsh to illegal aliens, arresting and convicting and imprisoning them when it happens in their own territory.

If this WERE a matter of doctrine or moral teaching the Vatican law that applies to Vatican territory would be the same as the woke liberals in the USA are demanding. But it's not. Pope Francis has a political opinion that was in resonance with Biden and the wokists. We DO have an obligation to refugees and immigrants BUT how we accomplish that obligation is a matter of prudent choice. The wokists are NOT being prudent. And pope Francis is being prudent with respect to Vatican territory but not US territory. In Vatican territory they arrest illegal aliens who sneak into their territory.

 

[Yarddog]

What does it mean to you to treat immigrants with mercy and love? Does that mean approving of illegal immigration?

Depends on why they had to come here illegally. As children of God, we are required to love all people.

 

[chevyontheriver]

My own opinion is that non-violent civil disibedience in response to unjust or immoral laws is virtuous. Pro-lifers have done this for decades and resisting unjust deportations is in the same category.

So gang members who come illegally into the USA and engage in gang activities here are engaged in non-violent civil disobedience? Enlightening.

And the does the Vatican have unjust and immoral immigration laws that it is virtuous to disobey? Just wondering how you would feel if the USA copied Vatican immigration law.

Depends on why they had to come here illegally. As children of God, we are required to love all people.

Does loving all people mean not holding anyone accountable for anything? Does loving a murderer require that there be no consequences for that murder? Does loving an illegal immigrant require that we ignore their illegal entry?

 

[Yarddog]

I hear your concern for mercy, but does the Catholic Church teach that breaking federal laws is okay?

No, but we are still required to love.

I'm asking seriously.

Is it a sin, in the Catholic Church, to break the law and enter into a country illegally?

I would say that it depends on why one felt they had to come here illegally.

I would think it would be a sin, but perhaps I am mistaken.

I would say it would be a sin in most cases but being a sin doesn't remove our requirement to be compassionate.

 

[chevyontheriver]

I would say it would be a sin in most cases but being a sin doesn't remove our requirement to be compassionate.

Can one be compassionately deported? Or is it just evil to deport an illegal immigrant under any circumstances?

 

[Yarddog]

Help me to understand.

What I hear you saying is that an American Catholic has to decide whether to obey the rules of the country, or obey the pope.

We should never sin. Just because something is legal doesn't mean that it is okay to do. If a country demanded a Christian to worship their leader, we should be ready to die and refuse.

Is that how it is for Catholics in America?

The Pope can be wrong, so we don't have to do what they say just because they say something.

Is that why there has always been concern about Catholics getting into government positions ... the fear that those Catholics in government will obey the pope rather than the laws of the country?

This has been the case, in the past. Many people felt this way. Our alligence is to God and the Church is to help us understand God, just as when the Apostles were teaching the people about God.

Applying that logic, then I can see why the pope and Biden got along so well during his presidency, and why those Catholics obeying the pope would have seen Biden as a good president. Biden was running immigration according to Catholic belief (in obedience to the pope), and not according to the laws of America.

Biden is a very kind person but he isn't obedient to the Pope or God in all issues. The Church is Pro-life, in all matters, while Biden has become pro choice over the years.

Life and Dignity of the Human Person

The Catholic Church proclaims that human life is sacred and that the dignity of the human person is the foundation of a moral vision for so...

www.usccb.org

... and if all that is so, then I can see how you would see Tom Homan as a cafeteria Catholic, because he is not obeying the pope.

Cafeteria Catholics pick and choose which doctrines to embrace. This would mean that both, Homan and Biden, are be this.

 

[ozso]

Does he show compassion to immigrants?

What should the head of immigration control be doing to show compassion to illegal immigrants?

 

[Yarddog]

Does loving all people mean not holding anyone accountable for anything?

No.

Does loving a murderer require that there be no consequences for that murder?

No, but sentencing must be just. If we can confine a murderer, to protect innocent people, then the death penalty is not just

Does loving an illegal immigrant require that we ignore their illegal entry?

Depends.

 

[Fantine]

The Holy Family fled to Egypt as refugees. Imagine if Trump had been Pharaoh guarding the gates. Salvation derailed!
I understand that there is rampant disinformation about immigrants. Statistically they commit fewer crimes than the general population.
The current president campaigned on hate and fear, of LGBTQ and immigrants. The typical immigrants are young marrieds with slightly more children than the rest of us. Churchgoing--that's a historic and current trait of immigrants.
Yes, there are bad immigrants--and bad native-born Americans.
In the same vein, lots of LGBTQ are parents, workers, professionals. My cousin's son adopted twin boys with his partner. They are loved and enjoying a happy secure childhood.
I don't decide who is good or bad based on the fear-mongering of political candidates. I learn for myself, through relationships with diverse friends.
Immigrants are almost all good people with bad options in untenable situations.
Like my grandparents...or yours.

 

[ozso]

No.


No, but sentencing must be just. If we can confine a murderer, to protect innocent people, then the death penalty is not just

Depends.

This isn't sentencing. It's simply sending them back over the border they illegally crossed.

 

[Yarddog]

Can one be compassionately deported?

I'm sure they can.

Or is it just evil to deport an illegal immigrant under any circumstances?

I would say no. The Episcopal Bishop did a good job in her sermon at Trump's inaugural prayer service, when she asked Trump to be merciful to immigrants. Most are very law biding after entry. They provide the US with many services.

 

[Yarddog]

What should the head of immigration control be doing to show compassion to illegal immigrants?

The same as he should do to all people.