The Church started in the wilderness

[Aaron112]

It's really mind-blowing to me.

It is indeed and in truth devastating! Except for protection divine, we too perish. Many may gradually fall away not realizing they are departing from truth, since/when/ truth is not the standard.

 

[Leaf473]

Our mission should be to love and obey God the way He asks, not the way we think is best. Its why we are in this whole mess.

Adam and Eve thought a tree was just a tree,

Just to note, Eve saw that the tree was good for making a person wise

Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 3:6 - New Life Version

The woman saw that the tree was good for food, and pleasing to the eyes, and could fill the desire of making one wise. So she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave some to her husband, and he ate.

www.biblegateway.com

...but by their disobedience to God, it changed everything. People think the Sabbath is just another day, but sadly do not realize what it does to Christ Eze 22:26

I guess we will all find out soon enough if God meant what He said. I think He does, so my faith is in what He said not the popular teachings of man.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

No different when people today profane the Sabbath commandment- because all days alike- thinking their wisdom is above God's. God said and wrote Keep the Sabbath day holy, the seventh day is the Sabbath, Remember.

Man say nah, God never really meant that, we can forget what God said to Remember or edit it so much, it no longer even resembles God's commandment. Basically saying my wisdom is above His. Essentially making one their own god.

 

[Leaf473]

I don't think it's good to edit God's word, but there are issues of interpretation, aren't there?

Some people believe it's okay to drive on the Sabbath, other people say it's not

If it is okay to walk to your refrigerator, take something out, and put it in the microwave, is it okay to
walk into a grocery store, take something off the shelf, and pay for it at the self-checkout register?
One might say that you are engaging in buying, but when you run your microwave, isn't that buying electricity?

 

[Leaf473]

I don't think it says Eve thought her wisdom was above God's. She may have, but it doesn't say that

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Gen 3:2 And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; 3 but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.’ ”

4 Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was [a]pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate.

Basically in listening and trusting the "other spirit" instead of obeying God Eve broke a bunch of commandments

1. She stole something that was not hers. God told her she could eat from any tree but this one and she took it anyway.
2. She coveted something that was not hers
3. She broke the very first commandment to have no other gods before me, when she listened to someone other than God and thought she would be like God if eating something she was told not to in essence making herself her own god.

Lots of lessons to be learned from the first sin that separated man from God. Sadly man is still listening to the other spirit in the garden instead of being faithful to God to obey Him the way He said.

 

[Leaf473]

Adam and Eve definitely disobeyed, true!

 

[ralliann]

Adam and Eve definitely disobeyed, true!

They did not believe God, like Noah, Abraham, etc.

 

[Leaf473]

They did not believe God, like Noah, Abraham, etc.

Yes! And maybe as it relates to the Sabbath and the Law,

Bible Gateway passage: John 6:29 - New American Standard Bible

Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Bro.T]

Indeed. And what is Christ's commandments? It is the commandment to love each other.

Paul concerning the unchangeable Royal Law of God. (Rom. 13:7-10) (v.7) Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. (v.8) Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. That’s the biblical definition of love, the keeping of God’s law. (v.9) For this, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF. (v.10) Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

And that is what God’s holy commandments are all about; the first four tells you how to love God and the last six tells you how to love your neighbor. If you love your God you will not do any thing to offend him, like having other gods before him. You will do as he says like remember the sabbath day to keep it holy on the seventh day of the week. If you love him you will obey him when he tells you not to eat certain meats etc… And the same goes for your fellow man, if you love your neighbor you wouldn’t steal from him, you wouldn’t kill him, you wouldn’t try and sleep with his wife and so on and so forth. (See exodus 20: 1-17)

 

[ralliann]

Paul concerning the unchangeable Royal Law of God. (Rom. 13:7-10) (v.7) Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. (v.8) Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. That’s the biblical definition of love, the keeping of God’s law. (v.9) For this, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF. (v.10) Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

And that is what God’s holy commandments are all about; the first four tells you how to love God and the last six tells you how to love your neighbor. If you love your God you will not do any thing to offend him, like having other gods before him. You will do as he says like remember the sabbath day to keep it holy on the seventh day of the week. If you love him you will obey him when he tells you not to eat certain meats etc… And the same goes for your fellow man, if you love your neighbor you wouldn’t steal from him, you wouldn’t kill him, you wouldn’t try and sleep with his wife and so on and so forth. (See exodus 20: 1-17)

God did not tell the nations to eat Jewish Kosher.

 

[Bro.T]

The role of the Holy Spirit is intrinsic to Christian living, what exactly do you think the HS does?

Do you need me to post verses that we should keep in step with the HS?

John 16:13-15
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.

Do you ask the HS to reveal to you this truth? (Hint: It's why he is here)

2 Cor 3:3-4
You yourselves are our letter, written on our hearts, known and read by everybody. You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

What do you think written with the Spirit of the Living God means and not with tablets of stone but on our hearts? Do you think it means the tablets were verbatim etched into our heart? That conclusion would not require the Holy Spirit since the truth is already revealed to us. What's on our heart is of the HS, not of the tablets. Seek the HS for guidance, not the 10.

Let's take a look at Roman 8: 1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. This is true, because Jesus says in John 4: 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. Jesus also say in John 6: 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. So walking in the spirit is the word of God, which is keeping his Commandments. Jesus says in John 14: 15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

We still must obey all of God's laws and statues of conduct, from the ten commandments to the least commandment. We cannot choose to obey one without obeying the others. For instance, if it's still good to pay tithes (as many preach), then it is still good to obey God's dietary law (not eating pork, catfish, etc...Leviticus 11:1-47). Similarly, you cannot purposely trip a blind person (Leviticus 19:14) and claim to love your neighbor as yourself. Neither can you break God's Sabbath days (Leviticus 19:30) and claim to love God with all your heart, soul and mind.

Many fight to uphold man's traditional holidays (Sunday the 1st day as the Sabbath, Christmas, Easter and Halloween), but few are obeying God's Holy Days (Saturday the 7th day Sabbath, the Passover, Pentecost, etc...Leviticus 23:1-44). All of God's laws are still good and must be obeyed if we want eternal life. We might not be able to observe everything perfectly, but can fight a good fight. If we do this our prize awaits us at the end. "...if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments" (Matthew 19:17). Jesus says in John 14: 15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

 

[DamianWarS]

I guess we will all find out soon enough if God meant what He said.

This remark is inappropriate. We approach scripture differently but please don't suggest I don't honor God's words. Your remarks are hurtful as they suggest I dishonor God and don't care about what he desires for me. If you have nothing more to say that's fine... but don't say that.

 

[Bro.T]

I have never disputed with you that sin is a breaking of God's Law. That is not under debate. What is up for debate here is what God's Law is for us today versus what God's Law was before Christ. The two are very different.

Melchizedek was not High Priest. He was just a priest to God, and also the king of Salem. Jesus is like him in that Jesus is also both King and priest, but Jesus is High Priest, and King of Kings.

Again, I have never disputed that the Laws of God did not exist before the Law was given at Mt Sinai. And the laws against murder, adultery, lust, (1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, & 10 of the ten commandments) are all restated as being still part of the NT just as they were in the OT. But keeping the sabbath is not listed among the laws we must keep under the NT.

Baptism also initiates the continual cleansing that washes away all future sins as well.

Again, this is not under debate. We must keep the laws of God as they pertain to us today. But the keeping of the sabbath does not pertain to us today.

Going to church on Sunday, the pagan holidays of Christmas and Easter, praying to the Virgin Mary, I could go on and on. And most so-called Christians know these rituals have nothing to do with Jesus and the Bible, but a lot of work get put into them. But the Sabbath day is all through out the Bible and you going to trick yourself in believing the Sabbath day is done away with.

Jesus made it clear that the seventh day was made for mankind. (Mark 2:27-28) (v.27) And he said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath: Do we understand that, the Sabbath was made for us, not us for the Sabbath. (v.28) Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath. The Son of man (Jesus) is the Lord God of the seventh day Sabbath (Saturday).

Paul say in (1 Tim.4: 1) Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; The first day of the week, as the Sabbath day, is the doctrine of the devil. Satan is always trying to mimic God. So if it is not of God then it is of Satan. So if the seventh day Sabbath (Saturday) is a sign between God and His people. Then the first day (Sunday) is a sign between somebody and his people. You can’t have it both ways you are either in or out. Paul says in 2 Corinthians 11: 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Also Paul say in (1 Cor.10:20-22) (v.20) “and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils”. (v.21) Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils. (v.22) Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?

Not true. All of the OT was removed. The law of circumcision, which dates back to Abraham (400 years before the Law was given on Mt Sinai (Gen 17, Gal 5:2-6), is no longer relevant under the NT. The law of meat restrictions which was first given at Mt Sinai (Lev 11, Deut 14) is no longer relevant under the NT (Mark 7:18-19, Acts 10:9-16). The law of keeping the sabbath is no longer relevant under the NT (Col 2:16-17, Rom 14:5-9). The law restricting the priesthood to the Levites is no longer relevant under the NT (Heb 7:12).

Yes, walk in the commandments of God that are relevant to your time. Abraham walked in the commandments of God that were relevant to him. He was not circumcised until he was a very old man (not when he was 8 days old like those under the Law of Moses had to be). He could eat any meat that he pleased, because there were no dietary restrictions in his time. Melchizedek was priest to God, because there was no law restricting the priesthood to the Levites. And there was no sabbath keeping in Abraham's time. But during the time of the Law of Moses, these things changed. Now we are under only the NT laws. We are not subject to the laws given in the OT in any way, for it has been fulfilled, completed, swept away, and is no longer relevant to anyone living in the NT era.

 

[DamianWarS]

when he tells you not to eat certain meats

We still must obey all of God's laws and statues of conduct, from the ten commandments to the least commandment. We cannot choose to obey one without obeying the others. For instance, if it's still good to pay tithes (as many preach), then it is still good to obey God's dietary law (not eating pork, catfish, etc...Leviticus 11:1-47). Similarly, you cannot purposely trip a blind person (Leviticus 19:14) and claim to love your neighbor as yourself. Neither can you break God's Sabbath days (Leviticus 19:30) and claim to love God with all your heart, soul and mind.

This would be a commandment outside of the 10 which would be inconsistent on your part. What gives you the authority to hand pick what you call God's commandments and then sweep the rest under a rug? Is not circumscion God's commandment? It certainly was for Abraham as it is the sign of an everlasting covenant between him and God for generations to come, the same language used for the Sabbath (and explicitly in the flesh) It was for Moses as he was almost put to death for not being obedient to this commandment. How do you justify cutting one but not the other?

 

[Aaron112]

11 turn from evil and do good,
seek peace and chase after it.
12 For Adonai keeps his eyes on the righteous,
and his ears are open to their prayers;
but the face of Adonai is against
those who do evil things.”

 

[SabbathBlessings]

This remark is inappropriate. We approach scripture differently but please don't suggest I don't honor God's words. Your remarks are hurtful as they suggest I dishonor God and don't care about what he desires for me. If you have nothing more to say that's fine... but don't say that.

I’m not trying to be hurtful, so my apologies if it came off that way, but I do believe God meant what He said the way He said it. He spoke and wrote it, it truly cannot be made clearer. God placed the Sabbath commandment in the same category as only worship God and not to murder all placed inside the ark of the Covenant Exo 40:20

8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

I think it’s important to obey God the way He said and not make a variation of it, because He is God and we are to be His humble servants living by His every word. I do not believe God has a plan for us that goes against His Word Isa 8:20,. I also believe God will make known His Truth when He comes, I believe we can know this now by following His Word - His version.

 

[Aaron112]

I think it’s important to obey God the way He said and not try to make a variation of it.

That's what Jesus Says.

 

[JSRG]

the pagan holidays of Christmas and Easter,

There is actually very little evidence that either is pagan.

 

[Aaron112]

commercialized