The Church started in the wilderness

[SabbathBlessings]

There are many sabbaths that fall on days other than the seventh day. The Passover falls on the 15th of Nisan, which means that it could fall on any day of the week. Most years, the Passover will fall on a day other than the seventh day (six chances our of seven). And on one year out of seven Passover will fall on Friday, and another one out of seven it will fall on Sunday, both cases resulting in two sabbaths in a row (Friday and Saturday, or Saturday and Sunday). While this is not stated in Scripture, this is how calendars work. This year, Christmas is on Wednesday. Next year it will fall on Thursday, and in 2026 it will fall on Friday. This is what happens when a holiday falls on a certain day of the month, instead of on a certain day of the week, like Thanksgiving. Because God made Passover fall on the 15th of Nisan, each year it will fall on a different day. And then Pentecost will always, always fall on the day of the week AFTER the day Passover fell on. Pentecost falls on the 50th day after Passover, or seven weeks plus 1 day. This means that Jesus ate the Passover on Wednesday night, and was Crucified on Thursday, and then Friday was the High sabbath (First day of feast of weeks), and then Saturday was the normal seventh day sabbath, then Jesus arose on Sunday. Pentecost then fell on Saturday, 50 days after Passover.

		Day		Night
			10th of Nisan
Sunday	10th of Nisan	Jesus enteres Jerusalem Lamb selection day	11th of Nisan
Monday	11th of Nisan		12th of Nisan
Tuesday	12th of Nisan		13th of Nisan
Wednesday	13th of Nisan		14th of Nisan	Lamb sacrificed and eaten
Thursday	14th of Nisan	Jesus (the Lamb) died	15th of Nisan
Friday	15th of Nisan		16th of Nisan
Saturday	16th of Nisan		17th of Nisan	Jesus resurrected
Sunday	17th of Nisan	Jesus revealed alive

Jesus died on Thursday, the 14th of Nisan, and was resurrected early on the morning of the 17th (three days later). If He had died on Friday, then there would not have been three days and three nights between His death and resurrection (Matt 12:40).

It is clear from Scripture that even the Apostles, the closest students He had, did not understand all of what He told them when He said it. Peter still thought that some foods were unclean three years after Jesus' death when the Spirit of the Lord showed him the vision of eating "unclean" foods and sent him to preach to Cornelius. But Jesus had made all meats clean back in Mark 7:18-19.

I'm not sure if you are reading what is being stated, but yes, the annual sabbath (s) do not fall on the same day of the week always, but when they fall on the seventh day Sabbath it is a High Sabbath. Why Christ death was a High Sabbath it was the Passover and the weekly Sabbath which is a commandment of God, thus saith the Lord.

I would hate to be one of the poor souls when Christ comes Isa 66:17 thinking all foods are made clean when Jesus spoke in a parable in Mark 7 and told exactly what He was referring to that had nothing to do about food. Mark 7:21-22 but only used it as an illustration.

 

[Doug Brents]

I'm not sure if you are reading what is being stated, but yes, the annual sabbath (s) do not fall on the same day of the week always, but when they fall on the seventh day Sabbath it is a High Sabbath. Why Christ death was a High Sabbath it was the Passover and the weekly Sabbath which is a commandment of God, thus saith the Lord.

No, the "High" sabbath is a sabbath that falls on a day of the week other than the seventh day.

I would hate to be one of the poor souls when Christ comes Isa 66:17 thinking all foods are made clean when Jesus spoke in a parable in Mark 7 and told exactly what He was referring to that had nothing to do about food. Mat 7:21-22 but only used it as an illustration.

LOL, you really haven't studied the Scriptures, have you? You have read them, but you haven't really studied them.
God would never tell a person to sin. God is not the author of sin. Yet He directly told Peter to get up and eat of the "unclean" foods that He showed him in the sheet during a vision (Acts 10:9-16). But what does God tell Peter? "What God has cleansed, no longer consider unholy." Now, God was certainly talking about the Gentiles here, but He is using the example of the "unclean" foods that He had clearly made clean. There is no meat on Earth that is "unclean" spiritually, because there is no meat on Earth that, when eaten, goes into the soul and defiles it. What is eaten goes into the stomach and so into what is passed out of the body into the toilet; it never reaches the soul. It is what comes out of the mouth (what is in the heart of a man) that causes him to be unclean (sinful)(Mark 7:20-23).

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Acts 10​

​

Peter’s Vision​

9 The next day, as they went on their journey and drew near the city, Peter went up on the housetop to pray, about [e]the sixth hour. 10 Then he became very hungry and wanted to eat; but while they made ready, he fell into a trance 11 and saw heaven opened and an object like a great sheet bound at the four corners, descending to him and let down to the earth. 12 In it were all kinds of four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air. 13 And a voice came to him, “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.”

14 But Peter said, “Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean.” (so until the Cross years after Peter never ate anything unclean, Christ's covenant ratified at His cross nothing could change)

15 And a voice spoke to him again the second time, “What God has [f]cleansed you must not call common.” 16 This was done three times. And the object was taken up into heaven again.

Summoned to Caesarea​

17 Now while Peter [g]wondered within himself what this vision which he had seen meant, (not even Peter thought the vision was about food because it wasn't)

behold, the men who had been sent from Cornelius had made inquiry for Simon’s house, and stood before the gate. 18 And they called and asked whether Simon, whose surname was Peter, was lodging there.

19 While Peter thought about the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Behold, three men are seeking you. 20 Arise therefore, go down and go with them, doubting nothing; for I have sent them.”

21 Then Peter went down to the men [h]who had been sent to him from Cornelius, and said, “Yes, I am he whom you seek. For what reason have you come?”

22 And they said, “Cornelius the centurion, a just man, one who fears God and has a good reputation among all the nation of the Jews, was divinely instructed by a holy angel to summon you to his house, and to hear words from you.” 23 Then he invited them in and lodged them.

On the next day Peter went away with them, and some brethren from Joppa accompanied him.

Peter Meets Cornelius​

24 And the following day they entered Caesarea. Now Cornelius was waiting for them, and had called together his relatives and close friends. 25 As Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped him. 26 But Peter lifted him up, saying, “Stand up; I myself am also a man.” 27 And as he talked with him, he went in and found many who had come together. 28 Then he said to them, “You know how unlawful it is for a Jewish man to keep company with or go to one of another nation. But God has shown me that I should not call any man common or unclean. 29 Therefore I came without objection as soon as I was sent for. I ask, then, for what reason have you sent for me?”

30 So Cornelius said, [i]“Four days ago I was fasting until this hour; and at the ninth hour I prayed in my house, and behold, a man stood before me in bright clothing, 31 and said, ‘Cornelius, your prayer has been heard, and your [j]alms are remembered in the sight of God. 32 Send therefore to Joppa and call Simon here, whose surname is Peter. He is lodging in the house of Simon, a tanner, by the sea. [k]When he comes, he will speak to you.’ 33 So I sent to you immediately, and you have done well to come. Now therefore, we are all present before God, to hear all the things commanded you by God.”

Preaching to Cornelius’ Household​

34 Then Peter opened his mouth and said: “In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. 35 But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him. 36 The word which God sent to the [l]children of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ—He is Lord of all— 37 that word you know, which was proclaimed throughout all Judea, and began from Galilee after the baptism which John preached: 38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him. 39 And we are witnesses of all things which He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem, whom [m]they killed by hanging on a tree. 40 Him God raised up on the third day, and showed Him openly, 41 not to all the people, but to witnesses chosen before by God, even to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead. 42 And He commanded us to preach to the people, and to testify that it is He who was ordained by God to be Judge of the living and the dead. 43 To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission[n] of sins.”

The Holy Spirit Falls on the Gentiles​

44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And [o]those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.

Then Peter answered, 47 “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.

Not about food, but about calling man unclean.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Yes, it does mean that the commandments that are not mentioned are null and abolished. There are dozens of places where commandments from the OT are mentioned in the NT, but not a single NT Scripture references the fourth. As demonstrated in the grid a couple of posts back, the other nine have been restated in the NT as being law in the NT, but the fourth was not stated as law, so it is not binding on the NT Christ follower.

And there is no set day for worship (so no wrong day to worship by the way). There can be no "wrong way", if there isn't a "right way".

Doug, like I said they were all following the fourth commandment, the sabbath, they knew it well and were following it, have no doubt about it..

It is all over the bible, the commandments will not change and God that gave us the commandments do not change. Jesus said the same, GOD and Jesus his son said this clearly, why do you not believe them? Even in a future time, it is written in the book of revelations;
Rev 11:19 Then the temple of God in heaven was opened, and the ark of His covenant appeared in His temple. And there were flashes of lightning, and rumblings, and peals of thunder, and an earthquake, and a great hailstorm.

the ark of his covenant is the same as the israelites constructed and contains God's covenant, the 10 Commandments written by GOD himself in 2 tablets, the first tablet contains the first four commandments expressing ; ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’
the second tablets contains the last six commandments, they mean this; ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’

Deu 4:13 He declared to you His covenant, which He commanded you to follow—the Ten Commandments that He wrote on two tablets of stone.

 

[Doug Brents]

Doug, like I said they were all following the fourth commandment, the sabbath, they knew it well and were following it, have no doubt about it..

It is all over the bible, the commandments will not change and God that gave us the commandments do not change. Jesus said the same, GOD and Jesus his son said this clearly, why do you not believe them? Even in a future time, it is written in the book of revelations;
Rev 11:19 Then the temple of God in heaven was opened, and the ark of His covenant appeared in His temple. And there were flashes of lightning, and rumblings, and peals of thunder, and an earthquake, and a great hailstorm.

the ark of his covenant is the same as the israelites constructed and contains God's covenant, the 10 Commandments written by GOD himself in 2 tablets, the first tablet contains the first four commandments expressing ; ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’
the second tablets contains the last six commandments, they mean this; ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’

Deu 4:13 He declared to you His covenant, which He commanded you to follow—the Ten Commandments that He wrote on two tablets of stone.

I am not disputing that the ten commandments were part of the Old Covenant that God made with Abraham and then renewed with Moses on Mt Sinai when He gave the ten commandments with the rest of the Law to Israel.

But what you won't admit is that the Old Covenant is no longer the covenant under which we live today. Jesus instituted a New Covenant with mankind, all of mankind and not just Israel. The New Covenant replaces the obsolete Old Covenant. While all of what you wrote above was true while the Old Covenant was valid, it is all irrelevant today because we are no longer under the Old Covenant.

 

[Bro.T]

Yes, in the OT it was very clear that keeping the sabbath was a requirement. But we are not under the OT anymore (as has been demonstrated through Scripture (Gal 4:21-5:7). That constitutes Biblical proof.

This is true, but you have to be careful what commandments you include in this statement. The commands of the OT were impossible to keep for a human. It took God taking the form of a human and living as one of us to keep the OT commandments perfectly. It is because of our weakness that the OT was removed, and a New Covenant established that we could keep (Heb 7:11-21).

All of the bolded commandments you list above are restated in the NT, but the ones that are not bolded are not stated in the NT. So they are not law to the NT Christ follower.

And yes, the sabbath was Saturday (from sundown on Friday night to sundown on Saturday night). But that is not the day we are commanded to worship on today.

Sorry, but the OT commands are not still valid today. They were expunged because Jesus fulfilled them, and made them obsolete when He instituted the New Covenant.

I'm sorry but Jesus did fulfilled them Commandments, that's why Paul and the apostles kept laws, including the Sabbath day much after the Jesus death. In (Matthew 5:17), Jesus made the statement Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. He came not to destroy the law, or the prophets, but to fulfill. Now verse 18, Jesus Himself states For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Now you will find in a concordance that jot and tittle mean letter. Here Jesus clearly states that not one letter of the law will be changed as long as heaven and earth exist. We know that the law came from the Old Testament so based solely on (Matthew 5:18), it nor the Old Testament can not be done away with. There is clearly a discrepancy between what is being taught and what the scriptures say. The fact, that Jesus came to fulfill is known, because that is what is stated in (Matthew 5:17). But one needs to find out what He was to fulfill, since that is the condition put forth in (Matthew 5:18), when He said no letter would pass from the law until all is fulfilled.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

I am not disputing that the ten commandments were part of the Old Covenant that God made with Abraham and then renewed with Moses on Mt Sinai when He gave the ten commandments with the rest of the Law to Israel.

But what you won't admit is that the Old Covenant is no longer the covenant under which we live today. Jesus instituted a New Covenant with mankind, all of mankind and not just Israel. The New Covenant replaces the obsolete Old Covenant. While all of what you wrote above was true while the Old Covenant was valid, it is all irrelevant today because we are no longer under the Old Covenant.

Doug, The New Covenant does not abolish God’s commandments but rather writes them on our hearts, showing the internal and spiritual nature of this renewed covenant.

In Deuteronomy 4:13 (NKJV), it is clearly stated: "So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone." This verse identifies the Ten Commandments as the covenant itself—God’s moral law that reflects His eternal and unchanging character. This is critical because the moral law, being part of the covenant, is not something temporary or obsolete; it is everlasting.


In Jeremiah 31:31-33 (NKJV), God foretells the coming of the New Covenant: "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the LORD. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people."


God does not say He will change or abolish His law. Instead, He says He will write the same law (His Ten Commandments) on the hearts and minds of His people. Under the Old Covenant, the law was external—written on stone tablets and given to the people. Under the New Covenant, the law is internalized—written on the hearts and minds of believers. Like I explained before, this is a transformative process, leading us to love and obey God sincerely from within. The New Covenant does not introduce new laws or abolish the old ones. It renews the relationship between God and His people by empowering them to obey through His Spirit.

When Jesus instituted the New Covenant at the Last Supper, He said: "For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins." (Matthew 26:28 NKJV). This sacrifice provides forgiveness and a way for us to enter into the New Covenant. However, Jesus did not abolish the law. He affirmed its eternal nature: "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill." (Matthew 5:17 NKJV). In fulfilling the law, Jesus brought it to its full spiritual intent. For example, He explained that obedience is not just external (e.g., refraining from murder or adultery) but internal (e.g., avoiding hatred and lust).

The Old Covenant and New Covenant differ in important ways. In the Old Covenant, the law was external, written on tablets of stone, while in the New Covenant the law is internal, written on the hearts and minds of believers as promised in Jeremiah 31:33. Moses was the mediator of the Old Covenant, but Jesus Christ is the mediator of the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:6). Under the Old Covenant, the people tried to obey in their own strength, and they often failed, but in the New Covenant, through Jesus and the Holy Spirit, believers are empowered to obey God’s law from the heart (John 14:15-17). In the Old Covenant, sin was temporarily covered by animal sacrifices, but in the New Covenant, Jesus’ sacrifice provides complete and permanent forgiveness of sin (Matthew 26:28).

The foundation of God’s covenant—the Ten Commandments—remains unchanging. God’s character is eternal, and His law reflects that character. Jesus reinforced this in Matthew 5:18 (NKJV): "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled." Heaven and earth still stand, and so does God’s law. Under the New Covenant, the commandments are not abolished; they are written on the hearts of those who follow Christ.

The difference between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant is not the law itself but where the law is written and how it is obeyed. In the Old Covenant, the law was external, and the people failed to keep it. In the New Covenant, God writes His unchanging law (the Ten Commandments) on our hearts and empowers us, through His Spirit, to obey out of love and sincerity. The Ten Commandments are eternal and remain the foundation of God’s covenant with His people, both in the Old and New Covenants. The New Covenant fulfills the promise of Jeremiah 31:31-33, ensuring that God’s law is no longer just written on stone but engraved on the hearts and minds of His followers.

 

[Doug Brents]

I'm sorry but Jesus did fulfilled them Commandments, that's why Paul and the apostles kept laws, including the Sabbath day much after the Jesus death. In (Matthew 5:17), Jesus made the statement Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. He came not to destroy the law, or the prophets, but to fulfill.

What happens to a contract in which all the requirements for all parties involved have been fully fulfilled and accomplished? It becomes null and void. Why? Because there is no longer anything unfulfilled in the contract and it no longer has any power. That is what Jesus did to the Old Covenant. He fulfilled it completely for man's part, and the Father fulfilled it completely for God's part. It is now null and void, because there is no longer any part of it that still requires fulfilling by either side.

Now verse 18, Jesus Himself states For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Now you will find in a concordance that jot and tittle mean letter. Here Jesus clearly states that not one letter of the law will be changed as long as heaven and earth exist.

No, that is not what He said. He said it will not pass away until all of it is fulfilled. It was completely fulfilled by Jesus on the cross. That is why He was able to say, "It is finished!"

We know that the law came from the Old Testament so based solely on (Matthew 5:18), it nor the Old Testament can not be done away with. There is clearly a discrepancy between what is being taught and what the scriptures say. The fact, that Jesus came to fulfill is known, because that is what is stated in (Matthew 5:17). But one needs to find out what He was to fulfill, since that is the condition put forth in (Matthew 5:18), when He said no letter would pass from the law until all is fulfilled.

Jesus had to fulfill the Law perfectly. Keep every commandment, and not break a single one. Because even breaking the smallest commandment would make Him a breaker of the whole Law (James 2:10).

And yes, the Law came from the Old Covenant/Testament. And as Gal 4:21-5:7 says, the Old Covenant (complete with the Law) was wholly and totally cast out. Not just parts of it, but the whole covenant was fulfilled and thrown out.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

No, that is not what He said. He said it will not pass away until all of it is fulfilled. It was completely fulfilled by Jesus on the cross. That is why He was able to say, "It is finished!"

No scripture says this.

No, that is not what He said. He said it will not pass away until all of it is fulfilled. It was completely fulfilled by Jesus on the cross.

Should we ignore all of the scripture in the law or prophets that Jesus said He did not come to destroy like everything Zechariah and Isaiah prophesied that has yet to be fulfilled. Where does Mat 5:18 say until the cross. Jesus said until ALL is fulfilled why our disobedience to God's commandments affects our status in heaven Mat 5:19 (judgement Rev 22:14-15) not at the Cross we weren't even born yet, adding what is not there to God's Word is not a good idea because it changes His meaning and our words are nothing compared to what Jesus said and taught. All means just that when Jesus comes in the clouds and makes a New Heaven and New Earth as prophesied not fulfilled, until then not a jot or tittle can pass from God's law because no one is above God.

 

[guevaraj]

It was completely fulfilled by Jesus on the cross. That is why He was able to say, "It is finished!"

Brother, that is a human idea in contradiction to the word of God in the following statement, just like Sunday for the Sabbath in the apostate Roman Catholic Church, the mother of all protestant churches. If Jesus had fulfilled everything the prophets said of Him, Judaism would not reject Jesus as the expected Messiah, but the fact is, Jesus did not fulfill all that the prophets said of Him before His death. This means the law remains in effect till Jesus returns to fulfill everything the prophets said of Him as written in the following passage.

“Don’t misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose (the purpose of the Ten Commandments is to separate sin from our character). I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear (when God makes everything new), not even the smallest detail of God’s law will disappear until its purpose is achieved (to separate sin from our character). So if you ignore the least commandment (the Sabbath) and teach others to do the same, you will be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But anyone who obeys God’s laws and teaches them will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven. “But I warn you—unless your righteousness is better (Eleven Commandments) than the righteousness of the teachers of religious law and the Pharisees (Ten Commandments), you will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven! (Matthew 5:17-20 NLT)​

Without the resurrection allowing Jesus to be able to fulfill the rest that the prophets said of Him in the future, Jesus could not be the expected Messiah and, like Judaism, we should expect another. Jesus has not achieved everything the prophets said of Him and therefore the Ten Commandments remain as Jesus tells us above. The reason why Judaism does not accept Jesus is that Jesus has yet to hit the statue of Nebuchadnezzar: Jesus being the rock that will destroy all earlier kingdoms and establish a kingdom that will "never" end.

Jesus will accomplish this writing of the prophets when He returns for those who will take part in the first resurrection. Paul's use of the word law, without qualifying it, is twisted to take away the law of God in contradiction to Jesus' statement above, when Jesus had taken away the human law of Judaism which sabotaged the purpose of God's law, so that it did not fully separate sin from our character, when keeping the sin the law of God is meant to eliminate leads to death.

“During the reigns of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed or conquered. It will crush all these kingdoms into nothingness, and it will stand forever. That is the meaning of the rock cut from the mountain, though not by human hands, that crushed to pieces the statue of iron, bronze, clay, silver, and gold. The great God was showing the king what will happen in the future. The dream is true, and its meaning is certain.” (Daniel 2:44-45 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Doug Brents]

No scripture says this.

"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke of a letter shall pass from the Law, until all is accomplished!" Matt 5:18. Yes, that is exactly what Jesus said.

Should we ignore all of the scripture in the law or prophets that Jesus said He did not come to destroy like everything Isaiah Zechariah and Isaiah prophesied that has yet to be fulfilled.

No, we should not ignore it. But we should properly understand its place. It is still Scripture, and still valid for teaching and training, but it is no longer the requirement that we must live by today.

Where does Mat 5:18 say until the cross. Jesus said until ALL is fulfilled why our disobedience to God's commandments affects our status in heaven Mat 5:19 (judgement Rev 22:14-15) not at the Cross, adding what is not there to God's Word is not a good idea because it changes His meaning and our words are nothing compared to what Jesus said and taught, we weren't even born yet when Christ died. All means just that when Jesus comes in the clouds and makes a New Heaven and New Earth until then not a jot or tittle can pass from God's law because no one is above God.

Jesus completed the Old Covenant when He stated, "It is finished!" That is when the Old Covenant ended, and the New Covenant was established in His blood. The Old Covenant does not end when He comes again. If it did, then we would be living under two contradictory covenants at the same time. Then we would not know what we had to do to be saved.

 

[Doug Brents]

Brother, that is a human idea in contradiction to the word of God in the following statement, just like Sunday for the Sabbath in the apostate Roman Catholic Church, the mother of all protestant churches. If Jesus had fulfilled everything the prophets said of Him, Judaism would not reject Jesus as the expected Messiah, but the fact is, Jesus did not fulfill all that the prophets said of Him before His death. This means the law remains in effect till Jesus returns to fulfill everything the prophets said of Him as written in the following passage.

“Don’t misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose (the purpose of the Ten Commandments is to separate sin from our character). I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear (when God makes everything new), not even the smallest detail of God’s law will disappear until its purpose is achieved (to separate sin from our character). So if you ignore the least commandment (the Sabbath) and teach others to do the same, you will be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But anyone who obeys God’s laws and teaches them will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven. “But I warn you—unless your righteousness is better (Eleven Commandments) than the righteousness of the teachers of religious law and the Pharisees (Ten Commandments), you will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven! (Matthew 5:17-20 NLT)​

Without the resurrection allowing Jesus to be able to fulfill the rest that the prophets said of Him in the future, Jesus could not be the expected Messiah and, like Judaism, we should expect another. Jesus has not achieved everything the prophets said of Him and therefore the Ten Commandments remain as Jesus tells us above. The reason why Judaism does not accept Jesus is that Jesus has yet to hit the statue of Nebuchadnezzar: Jesus being the rock that will destroy all earlier kingdoms and establish a kingdom that will "never" end.

Jesus will accomplish this writing of the prophets when He returns for those who will take part in the first resurrection. Paul's use of the word law, without qualifying it, is twisted to take away the law of God in contradiction to Jesus' statement above, when Jesus had taken away the human law of Judaism which sabotaged the purpose of God's law, so that it did not fully separate sin from our character, when keeping the sin the law of God is meant to eliminate leads to death.

“During the reigns of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed or conquered. It will crush all these kingdoms into nothingness, and it will stand forever. That is the meaning of the rock cut from the mountain, though not by human hands, that crushed to pieces the statue of iron, bronze, clay, silver, and gold. The great God was showing the king what will happen in the future. The dream is true, and its meaning is certain.” (Daniel 2:44-45 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Sorry, but the "stone was broken off without hands" (which is Jesus) crushed these kingdoms during the time of those kingdoms. And those kingdoms are the Babylonian, Medo-Persian, Greek, and Roman empires. Jesus came during the fourth kingdom (Roman), and He established His Kingdom which will outlast them all, at that time. We are not still waiting on His Kingdom, nor are we still awaiting the fulfillment of this prophecy.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke of a letter shall pass from the Law, until all is accomplished!" Matt 5:18. Yes, that is exactly what Jesus said.

No, we should not ignore it. But we should properly understand its place. It is still Scripture, and still valid for teaching and training, but it is no longer the requirement that we must live by today.

Jesus completed the Old Covenant when He stated, "It is finished!" That is when the Old Covenant ended, and the New Covenant was established in His blood. The Old Covenant does not end when He comes again. If it did, then we would be living under two contradictory covenants at the same time. Then we would not know what we had to do to be saved.

So ignore Jesus in Mat 5:17 and destroy the fulfillment of the prophesies of Isaiah and Zechariah and other Prophets on things that have not been accomplished, and all doesn't mean all but means "some prophecies" and we can just add what it means instead of Jesus telling it what it means and ignore what Jesus said Mat 5:17-30 .

17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one [b]jot or one [c]tittle will by no means pass from the law till all ( add: the cross)is fulfilled

Mat 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Doesn't matter because man says God's law that God wrote and God spoke that He said He would not alter Psa 89:34 ended at the cross and mans ways are above God's ways.

Ok, guess we will see how that works out.

 

[guevaraj]

Sorry, but the "stone was broken off without hands" (which is Jesus) crushed these kingdoms during the time of those kingdoms. And those kingdoms are the Babylonian, Medo-Persian, Greek, and Roman empires. Jesus came during the fourth kingdom (Roman), and He established His Kingdom which will outlast them all, at that time. We are not still waiting on His Kingdom, nor are we still awaiting the fulfillment of this prophecy.

Brother, the empire of Rome still lives in the apostasy of the Roman Catholic Church. Although God has established one truth in His word for His people, the word of God reveals that there is a Mother of All Prostitutes who martyred God's people for not abandoning the truths they found in the word of God when they decided that it is better to obey God than humans. Many people of God who would obey the prophets if they had the truth, are scattered among the many daughters and in the "mother" of all prostitutes when they obey human traditions in contradiction to the word of God guaranteed by the prophets.

So the angel took me in the Spirit into the wilderness. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that had seven heads and ten horns, and blasphemies against God were written all over it. The woman wore purple and scarlet clothing and beautiful jewelry made of gold and precious gems and pearls. In her hand she held a gold goblet full of obscenities and the impurities of her immorality. A mysterious name was written on her forehead: “Babylon the Great, Mother of All Prostitutes and Obscenities in the World.” I could see that she was drunk—drunk with the blood of God’s holy people who were witnesses for Jesus. I stared at her in complete amazement. (Revelation 17:3-6 NLT)​

This is what God says to His people scattered among the many daughters and the "mother" of all prostitutes when God judges her on the return of Jesus to gather His people.

Then I heard another voice calling from heaven, “Come away from her, my people. Do not take part in her sins, or you will be punished with her. For her sins are piled as high as heaven, and God remembers her evil deeds. Do to her as she has done to others. Double her penalty for all her evil deeds. She brewed a cup of terror for others, so brew twice as much for her. She glorified herself and lived in luxury, so match it now with torment and sorrow. She boasted in her heart, ‘I am queen on my throne. I am no helpless widow, and I have no reason to mourn.’ Therefore, these plagues will overtake her in a single day—death and mourning and famine. She will be completely consumed by fire, for the Lord God who judges her is mighty. (Revelation 18:4-8 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Doug Brents]

So ignore Jesus in Mat 5:17 and destroy the fulfillment of the prophesies of Isaiah and Zechariah and other Prophets on things that have not been accomplished, and all doesn't mean all but means "some prophecies" and we can just add what it means instead of Jesus telling it what it means and ignore what Jesus said Mat 5:17-30 .

17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one [b]jot or one [c]tittle will by no means pass from the law till all ( add: the cross)is fulfilled

Mat 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Doesn't matter because man says God's law that God wrote and God spoke that He said He would not alter Psa 89:34 ended at the cross.

Ok, guess we will see how that works out.

The fulfillment of the OT does not destroy it. It completes it, just as He said He would. You want to put us back under the OT, when Jesus freed us from the OT through His blood. Good luck keeping the OT commands. If you tie yourself to even one of the OT commands, then you are condemned to keep EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM or be lost to Hell forever. How's that working out for you? Have you gone to Jerusalem and made the annually required sacrifices in the Temple with the Levite priests every single year your entire life? No? Then you have no hope of ever keeping the OT law perfectly. You have already broken it. Too bad for you.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The fulfillment of the OT does not destroy it. It completes it, just as He said He would. You want to put us back under the OT, when Jesus freed us from the OT through His blood. Good luck keeping the OT commands. If you tie yourself to even one of the OT commands, then you are condemned to keep EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM or be lost to Hell forever. How's that working out for you? Have you gone to Jerusalem and made the annually required sacrifices in the Temple with the Levite priests every single year your entire life? No? Then you have no hope of ever keeping the OT law perfectly. You have already broken it. Too bad for you.

Your words, not what Jesus said or taught. We are to follow Jesus and His example 1 John 2:6, He is the only way.

 

[Doug Brents]

Brother, the aspiring empire of Rome still lives in the apostate Roman Catholic Church. Although God has established one truth in His word for His people, the word of God reveals that there is a Mother of All Prostitutes who martyred God's people for not abandoning the truths they found in the word of God when they decided that it is better to obey God than humans. Many people of God who would obey the prophets if they had the truth, are scattered among the many daughters and in the "mother" of all prostitutes when they obey human traditions in contradiction to the word of God guaranteed by the prophets.

So the angel took me in the Spirit into the wilderness. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that had seven heads and ten horns, and blasphemies against God were written all over it. The woman wore purple and scarlet clothing and beautiful jewelry made of gold and precious gems and pearls. In her hand she held a gold goblet full of obscenities and the impurities of her immorality. A mysterious name was written on her forehead: “Babylon the Great, Mother of All Prostitutes and Obscenities in the World.” I could see that she was drunk—drunk with the blood of God’s holy people who were witnesses for Jesus. I stared at her in complete amazement. (Revelation 17:3-6 NLT)​

This is what God says to His people scattered among the many daughters and the "mother" of all prostitutes when God judges her on the return of Jesus to gather His people.

Then I heard another voice calling from heaven, “Come away from her, my people. Do not take part in her sins, or you will be punished with her. For her sins are piled as high as heaven, and God remembers her evil deeds. Do to her as she has done to others. Double her penalty for all her evil deeds. She brewed a cup of terror for others, so brew twice as much for her. She glorified herself and lived in luxury, so match it now with torment and sorrow. She boasted in her heart, ‘I am queen on my throne. I am no helpless widow, and I have no reason to mourn.’ Therefore, these plagues will overtake her in a single day—death and mourning and famine. She will be completely consumed by fire, for the Lord God who judges her is mighty. (Revelation 18:4-8 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

The prophecy in Daniel 2 has been completely fulfilled in Jesus' first coming. These prophecies do not pertain to the Roman Empire as it existed in Jesus' time. As Rev 17:5 states, it is not "Rome the Great" who is mother of all prostitutes. It is "Babylon the Great". Do not confuse your kingdoms here. The Roman empire was not great, cast in gold. It was iron and clay, and that is where the stone cut without human hands landed in the form of Jesus the Christ who established His Church/Kingdom 2000 years ago.

 

[Doug Brents]

Your words, not what Jesus said or taught. We are to follow Jesus and His example 1 John 2:6, He is the only way.

Believe what you will. I cast you back to the Judaizers that you follow after. I pray that your heart would be opened by Christ and filled with His mercy.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Believe what you will. I cast you back to the Judaizers that you follow after. I pray that your heart would be opened by Christ and filled with His mercy.

Doug, not all prophecies about Jesus were fulfilled, what about the prophecies of his second coming to restore the remnants of Israel see Jeremiah and below;

Zechariah 14:4-9 (BSB):

"On that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which faces Jerusalem on the east. The Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a very large valley, so that half of the mountain will move north, and the other half south. Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations, as He fights on the day of battle. On that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives... Then the Lord will be king over all the earth. On that day the Lord will be the only one, and His name the only one."

This did not happened has it?
what about;

Isaiah 9:6-7 (BSB):

"For to us a child is born, to us a Son is given; and the government will be upon His shoulders. And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Of the increase of His government and peace there will be no end, on the throne of David and over His kingdom, to establish it and uphold it with justice and righteousness from that time forward and forevermore."

Matthew 24:30-31 (BSB):

"Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the peoples of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other."

Luke 21:25-28 (BSB):

"There will be signs in the sun, moon, and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves. People will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken. At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near."

None of these prophecies were fulfilled so Yes, the Moral Law, the Ten Commandments are still valid today.

 

[guevaraj]

it is not "Rome the Great" who is mother of all prostitutes. It is "Babylon the Great".

Brother, something of all these former empires still remains in the Roman Catholic Church until Jesus destroys her at His return. “She will be completely consumed by fire” when the Lord “judges” her at His return.

Then I heard another voice calling from heaven, “Come away from her, my people. Do not take part in her sins, or you will be punished with her. For her sins are piled as high as heaven, and God remembers her evil deeds. Do to her as she has done to others. Double her penalty for all her evil deeds. She brewed a cup of terror for others, so brew twice as much for her. She glorified herself and lived in luxury, so match it now with torment and sorrow. She boasted in her heart, ‘I am queen on my throne. I am no helpless widow, and I have no reason to mourn.’ Therefore, these plagues will overtake her in a single day—death and mourning and famine. She will be completely consumed by fire, for the Lord God who judges her is mighty. (Revelation 18:4-8 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge