The Church started in the wilderness

[JesusFollowerForever]

To this I will reply.

It does not matter one bit whether Paul was an Apostle when Jesus said this or not. Paul's writings were Scripture, and acknowledged as such by Peter while both of them were still alive. That means that Peter was acknowledging that Paul's writings were directly inspired (God breathed, meaning they were authored by God) and so are 100% as reliable and authoritative as if Jesus had said them personally (because He did).

The authorship of 2 Peter has long been a subject of scholarly debate, with some scholars suggesting it might be a forgery. While there is no consensus, there are several arguments against its authenticity, which center around language, historical context, and theological concerns.

One of the main arguments is the late date of composition. Critics point out that the letter seems to reference the writings of Paul as scripture (2 Peter 3:15-16), which would imply that the letters of Paul were already widely circulated and recognized as authoritative at the time of writing. This seems anachronistic if 2 Peter was indeed written in the first century, as Paul’s letters had not yet been universally acknowledged as scripture during that period. Many scholars believe this suggests 2 Peter was written later, possibly in the early second century, after the death of Peter.

Another significant issue is the difference in writing style. The Greek in 2 Peter is much more sophisticated and polished than in 1 Peter. Some scholars note that the language of 2 Peter shows a higher level of rhetorical sophistication, which contrasts with the simpler, more “rough” Greek of 1 Peter. This difference has led some to suggest that 2 Peter was written by someone else, possibly a later writer, rather than the apostle Peter himself. Moreover, there are words and expressions in 2 Peter that appear in writings from the late first or early second century, such as those found in Jude and other early Christian texts.

The theological content of 2 Peter also raises questions about its authorship. Some scholars argue that the letter’s view of the delay of the Second Coming (2 Peter 3:3-9) reflects a more developed eschatology than would be expected from someone living in the first century, when early Christians still expected Christ’s return to be imminent. The emphasis on the delay of Christ’s return, along with the explanation that God is “not slow” but patient, seems more characteristic of a time when the Church had already experienced the prolonged delay of Christ’s return, which would place the writing in the second century.

The letter’s treatment of false teachers and its references to certain heresies also seem more in line with the concerns of the early second century, rather than the issues faced by the first-century church. These concerns about heresy, especially regarding the denial of Christ’s return, were more pronounced in the period after the apostles had passed away, leading some scholars to conclude that 2 Peter was addressing issues that did not arise during Peter's lifetime.

In addition, the letter’s late acceptance into the New Testament canon adds to the skepticism about its authenticity. Some early Christian writers, such as Origen, expressed uncertainty about the letter’s authorship, and it was not universally accepted as canonical until the fourth century. Church fathers like Eusebius categorized it as disputed, while others, like Athanasius, included it in their lists of accepted writings. This delayed acceptance raises questions about its authenticity, especially when compared to other New Testament books that were more widely recognized from an earlier date.

Another point of interest is the similarity to Jude. There are striking similarities in both language and content between 2 Peter and the book of Jude, such as warnings against false teachers and references to the punishment of fallen angels. Some scholars argue that 2 Peter may have been dependent on Jude, which would suggest that it was written after Jude, further supporting the theory that 2 Peter was written in the second century.

Only 2 peter 3:15 prevents paul's writings from being rejected, they are canon because of this verse only.

Jesus is the only way to eternal life not Paul.

 

[Doug Brents]

""Paul, according to the wisdom given him"" it could mean also paul had no wisdom or partial wisdom, it does not say paul's wisdom was from god.

Paul had no wisdom of his own, but he received the wisdom given to him by God (thus the inspiration of his writings) which makes them God's Word.

also truly you do not know that 2 peter is probably forgery? there are numerous serious papers on this please go have a look, they say 1 peter and 2 peter is not from the same author and there are proofs.

Man's opinions are duly noted, but is not God's truth. I choose to accept God's truth.

I have warned you to follow Jesus before paul, but that is on your head. you are completely wrong about the covenant being finished, the new covenant is just an internalization of GOD's laws in our hearts, yes the same laws minus the sacrificial system and a few others but never the 10 commandments, this is where you err.

see Jeremiah 31:31-34 that paul quotes from;
Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

The New Covenant is more than just an internalization of God's laws in our heart. It is a completely new covenant. Notice that the covenant made with Isaac is just a renewal of the covenant made with Abraham. And the covenant made with Jacob is again a renewal of the same covenant. And the covenant made with Moses is again a renewal of the same covenant. But the covenant made in Christ is a NEW Covenant, not a renewal of the covenant made with Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Moses. It is completely new, and is based on better promises, and contains ONLY those commandments that God applied to it, not all of what was in the Old Covenant.

sin is breaking the Law of GOD, the covenant, the 10 commandments.​

Deuteronomy 4:13
"So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone."

Believing in Jesus is more that just believe it is also to do what he asks of us.

Under the Old Covenant, you would be correct. But we are not now under the Old Covenant.

But we are going around in circles here, and it is getting us nowhere.
You don't believe that the New Covenant is real, or that the New Covenant Scriptures were inspired by God. That leaves us with no common ground for discussion. Because if the Scriptures are not the solid foundation that God says they are, then we are on a sliding scale and anyone can establish what he wants to be true as "truth".
I believe that all of the New Covenant Scriptures are God's Word, and are completely reliable, and trustworthy. I have staked my eternal soul on God's promises in the New Covenant Scriptures, and I will not be dissuaded, moved, or convinced otherwise.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Paul had no wisdom of his own, but he received the wisdom given to him by God (thus the inspiration of his writings) which makes them God's Word.

Man's opinions are duly noted, but is not God's truth. I choose to accept God's truth.

The New Covenant is more than just an internalization of God's laws in our heart. It is a completely new covenant. Notice that the covenant made with Isaac is just a renewal of the covenant made with Abraham. And the covenant made with Jacob is again a renewal of the same covenant. And the covenant made with Moses is again a renewal of the same covenant. But the covenant made in Christ is a NEW Covenant, not a renewal of the covenant made with Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Moses. It is completely new, and is based on better promises, and contains ONLY those commandments that God applied to it, not all of what was in the Old Covenant.

Under the Old Covenant, you would be correct. But we are not now under the Old Covenant.

But we are going around in circles here, and it is getting us nowhere.
You don't believe that the New Covenant is real, or that the New Covenant Scriptures were inspired by God. That leaves us with no common ground for discussion. Because if the Scriptures are not the solid foundation that God says they are, then we are on a sliding scale and anyone can establish what he wants to be true as "truth".
I believe that all of the New Covenant Scriptures are God's Word, and are completely reliable, and trustworthy. I have staked my eternal soul on God's promises in the New Covenant Scriptures, and I will not be dissuaded, moved, or convinced otherwise.

I want you to define for me the new covenant so I can understand you, since Jeremiah said I will put my laws in your heart, what are those laws? please quote the verses. you know and I know there is only one truth.

A covenant is a contract for both parties it does have a content, people sometimes use the new covenant but are not certain what it contains in this case a set of laws.

 

[Doug Brents]

I want you to define for me the new covenant so I can understand you, since Jeremiah said I will put my laws in your heart, what are those laws? please quote the verses. you know and I know there is only one truth.

There is much more freedom in the New Covenant than there was in the Old. There are very few "do this" and "don't do that" commands in the New Covenant.
John 17:3 - "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent."
Rom 12:1 - "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service."
1 Cor 11:25-26 - "In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me." For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death till He comes." This is the adaptation of the Old Covenant Passover sader into the New Covenant memorial of Jesus' death. He is our Passover lamb.
1 Cor 6:9-11 - "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor those habitually drunk, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God." Notice that under the Old Covenant, the punishment for any of these sins was immediate death by stoning, but there is forgiveness under the New Covenant.
Gal 5:16-24 - "But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. 17 For the desire of the flesh is against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, in order to keep you from doing whatever you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. 19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, 20 idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, 21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus crucified the flesh with its passions and desires."
Under the New Covenant, we have the Spirit of God dwelling within us, unlike those of the Old Covenant who had only the Spirit "with" them, not "in" them (John 7:39, 1 Cor 6:19, Rom 8:9, 11). And the Spirit within us works to produce the fruit of the Spirit in our lives. Under the Old Covenant it was the person's responsibility to produce the fruit.

Of the ten commandments (part of the Old Covenant Law), there is no restating of them as a single body of law. Most of them are restated individually, but not all of them are.

Commandment	Old	New
(1) Do not worship any other gods	Exod. 20:2-3; Deut. 5:7	Matt. 4:10; 1 Cor. 8:4-6
(2) Do not make idols	Exod. 20:4-6; Deut. 5:8-10	Acts 17:29-30; 1 John 5:21
(3) Do not use LORD’s name in vain	Exod. 20:7; Deut. 5:11	Matt. 6:9; 1 Tim. 6:1
(4) Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy	Exod. 20:8-11; Deut. 5:12-15	--
(5) Honor your father and your mother	Exod. 20:12; Deut. 5:16	Matt. 19:19; Eph. 6:1-2
(6) Do not murder	Exod. 20:13; Deut. 5:17	Rom. 13:9; 1 Pet. 4:15
(7) Do not commit adultery	Exod. 20:14; Deut. 5:18	Rom. 13:9; 1 Cor. 6:9-10
(8) Do not steal	Exod. 20:15; Deut. 5:19	Matt. 19:18; Eph. 4:28
(9) Do not give false testimony	Exod. 20:16; Deut. 5:20	Matt. 19:18; Rev. 21:8
(10) Do not covet	Exod. 20:17; Deut. 5:21	Rom. 13:9; Col. 3:5

But as stated, there are many more freedoms within the New Covenant, and sin can be of the making of each individual's mind. For example, for some it is/was sinful to eat meat that was sacrificed to an idol. They believed that the idol was something important, and that eating that meat made you a partaker in the idol. Thus, eating the meat of animals sacrifice to the idol would be sin. But for others of stronger/greater faith, they knew the idol was nothing, and so the meat was not polluted by the nothing, and so the meat was fine to eat without causing sin in the person eating (1 Cor 8). The only sin the person with stronger faith may encounter would be if his freedom caused the weaker person to eat also, therein causing both to be guilty of sin.

As Paul says, in 1 Cor 6:12, "All things are permitted for me, but not all things are of benefit. All things are permitted for me, but I will not be mastered by anything. 13 Food is for the stomach and the stomach is for food, however God will do away with both of them. But the body is not for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord is for the body."

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

There is much more freedom in the New Covenant than there was in the Old. There are very few "do this" and "don't do that" commands in the New Covenant.
John 17:3 - "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent."
Rom 12:1 - "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service."
1 Cor 11:25-26 - "In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me." For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death till He comes." This is the adaptation of the Old Covenant Passover sader into the New Covenant memorial of Jesus' death. He is our Passover lamb.
1 Cor 6:9-11 - "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor those habitually drunk, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God." Notice that under the Old Covenant, the punishment for any of these sins was immediate death by stoning, but there is forgiveness under the New Covenant.
Gal 5:16-24 - "But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. 17 For the desire of the flesh is against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, in order to keep you from doing whatever you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. 19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, 20 idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, 21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus crucified the flesh with its passions and desires."
Under the New Covenant, we have the Spirit of God dwelling within us, unlike those of the Old Covenant who had only the Spirit "with" them, not "in" them (John 7:39, 1 Cor 6:19, Rom 8:9, 11). And the Spirit within us works to produce the fruit of the Spirit in our lives. Under the Old Covenant it was the person's responsibility to produce the fruit.

Of the ten commandments (part of the Old Covenant Law), there is no restating of them as a single body of law. Most of them are restated individually, but not all of them are.

Commandment	Old	New
(1) Do not worship any other gods	Exod. 20:2-3; Deut. 5:7	Matt. 4:10; 1 Cor. 8:4-6
(2) Do not make idols	Exod. 20:4-6; Deut. 5:8-10	Acts 17:29-30; 1 John 5:21
(3) Do not use LORD’s name in vain	Exod. 20:7; Deut. 5:11	Matt. 6:9; 1 Tim. 6:1
(4) Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy	Exod. 20:8-11; Deut. 5:12-15	--
(5) Honor your father and your mother	Exod. 20:12; Deut. 5:16	Matt. 19:19; Eph. 6:1-2
(6) Do not murder	Exod. 20:13; Deut. 5:17	Rom. 13:9; 1 Pet. 4:15
(7) Do not commit adultery	Exod. 20:14; Deut. 5:18	Rom. 13:9; 1 Cor. 6:9-10
(8) Do not steal	Exod. 20:15; Deut. 5:19	Matt. 19:18; Eph. 4:28
(9) Do not give false testimony	Exod. 20:16; Deut. 5:20	Matt. 19:18; Rev. 21:8
(10) Do not covet	Exod. 20:17; Deut. 5:21	Rom. 13:9; Col. 3:5

But as stated, there are many more freedoms within the New Covenant, and sin can be of the making of each individual's mind. For example, for some it is/was sinful to eat meat that was sacrificed to an idol. They believed that the idol was something important, and that eating that meat made you a partaker in the idol. Thus, eating the meat of animals sacrifice to the idol would be sin. But for others of stronger/greater faith, they knew the idol was nothing, and so the meat was not polluted by the nothing, and so the meat was fine to eat without causing sin in the person eating (1 Cor 8). The only sin the person with stronger faith may encounter would be if his freedom caused the weaker person to eat also, therein causing both to be guilty of sin.

As Paul says, in 1 Cor 6:12, "All things are permitted for me, but not all things are of benefit. All things are permitted for me, but I will not be mastered by anything. 13 Food is for the stomach and the stomach is for food, however God will do away with both of them. But the body is not for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord is for the body."

so according to you paul remove the sabbath command? is this permitted? Does paul knows more than God?

do you see they are the same, why would have God removed one? can you explain this?

the sabbath is a sign between you and GOD of the covenant dont you see?

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

@Doug Brents

Exodus 31:12-17 (The Sabbath as a Sign of the Covenant)

"Then the Lord said to Moses, 'Say to the Israelites, "You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the Lord, who makes you holy. "'Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it is to be put to death; those who do any work on that day must be cut off from their people. For six days work is to be done, but the seventh day is a day of sabbath rest, holy to the Lord. Anyone who does any work on the Sabbath day is to be put to death. The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.'"

Do you see Doug the importance of the sabbath, How serious it is to GOD!

Doug, the penalty of death for those breaking these laws is paid as you know, however it does not mean that you should not obey the sabbath. God is patient and works with us to make us better in his image, God does want his people to be Holy as he is Holy, it is written. Nothing is impossible to God.

Many years ago I was also like you thinking that it was not important what day the sabbath was. but since then I have been following the commandments and I was transformed. and now I like the sabbath and look forward to it I would not go back. Give it a try and see, Obey God and see! you risk only to get closer to God!

Blessings.

 

[Doug Brents]

so according to you paul remove the sabbath command? is this permitted? Does paul knows more than God?

No, Paul did not remove anything. God removed the entirety of the Old Covenant when God initiated the New Covenant. NOTHING from the Old Covenant remains in effect for the NT Christ follower. Paul is just telling us in no uncertain terms that the OT is gone, over, done with, and no longer a factor in the NT Christ follower's life.

do you see they are the same, why would have God removed one? can you explain this?

the sabbath is a sign between you and GOD of the covenant dont you see?

The sabbath was a sign between God and the nation of Israel to separate them from the other nations on Earth, just as the kosher diet was to separate them from the other nations. Both of these separations have been removed, because there is now no longer any separation between Jew and Gentile; we are all exactly the same before God (Gal 3:28-29).

Exodus 31:12-17 (The Sabbath as a Sign of the Covenant)

Do you see Doug the importance of the sabbath, How serious it is to GOD!

Yes, I can clearly see that the sabbath was a sign of the Old Covenant between Israel and God, and that it was a way for God to separate Israel from the other nations around them. But that separation and the need for the sabbath is no longer in effect.

Doug, the penalty of death for those breaking these laws is paid as you know, however it does not mean that you should not obey the sabbath. God is patient and works with us to make us better in his image, God does want his people to be Holy as he is Holy, it is written. Nothing is impossible to God.

Many years ago I was also like you thinking that it was not important what day the sabbath was.

I have never said that the sabbath was not the seventh day. Of course the sabbath is the seventh day. But what I have said, as Scripture does as well, is that the keeping of the sabbath is no longer a requirement, because it was a tenant of the Old Covenant, and we are no longer under the Old Covenant. We are under the New Covenant, and the New Covenant does not require that we keep the sabbath.

but since then I have been following the commandments and I was transformed. and now I like the sabbath and look forward to it I would not go back. Give it a try and see, Obey God and see! you risk only to get closer to God!

Blessings.

You cannot get closer to God than to be in Christ. I have been adopted as a child of God, and have been cleansed of all my sins in Jesus' blood. I do not fear death, or Judgement, for I will stand before God with Jesus' blood as my witness, and the Spirit within me as my surety.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Here let me help find the forgotten commandment that is all over the NT scriptures

1. "You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve" (Matthew 4:10).
2. "Little children, keep yourselves from idols" (1 John 5:21). "Since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man’s devising" (Acts 17:29).
3. "That the name of God and His doctrine may not be blasphemed" (1 Timothy 6:1).
4. "He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: 'And God rested on the seventh day from all His works.' There remains therefore a rest ["keeping of a sabbath," margin] for the people of God. For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His" (Hebrews 4:4, 9, 10).
And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment. Luke 23:56
5. "Honor your father and your mother" (Matthew 19:19).
6. "You shall not murder" (Romans 13:9).
7. "You shall not commit adultery" (Matthew 19:18).
8. "You shall not steal" (Romans 13:9).
9. "You shall not bear false witness" (Romans 13:9).
10. "You shall not covet" (Romans 7:7).

For someone who keeps saying the Sabbath is "Old Covenant" there sure was a lot of Sabbath- keeping going on in the New Covenant. Still a commandment Luke 23:56 that remains for the people of God Heb 4:9NIV

At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.
- Matthew 12:1

But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.
- Matthew 12:2

Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
- Matthew 12:5

For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
- Matthew 12:8

And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.
- Matthew 12:10

And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?
- Matthew 12:11

How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.
- Matthew 12:12

But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
- Matthew 24:20

In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
- Matthew 28:1

And they went into Capernaum; and straightway on the sabbath day he entered into the synagogue, and taught.
- Mark 1:21

And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn.
- Mark 2:23

And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?
- Mark 2:24

And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
- Mark 2:27

Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
- Mark 2:28

And they watched him, whether he would heal him on the sabbath day; that they might accuse him.
- Mark 3:2

And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.
- Mark 3:4

And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands?
- Mark 6:2

And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,
- Mark 15:42

And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
- Mark 16:1

And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
- Luke 4:16

And came down to Capernaum, a city of Galilee, and taught them on the sabbath days.
- Luke 4:31

And it came to pass on the second sabbath after the first, that he went through the corn fields; and his disciples plucked the ears of corn, and did eat, rubbing them in their hands.
- Luke 6:1

And certain of the Pharisees said unto them, Why do ye that which is not lawful to do on the sabbath days?
- Luke 6:2

And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
- Luke 6:5

And it came to pass also on another sabbath, that he entered into the synagogue and taught: and there was a man whose right hand was withered.
- Luke 6:6

And the scribes and Pharisees watched him, whether he would heal on the sabbath day; that they might find an accusation against him.
- Luke 6:7

Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy it?
- Luke 6:9

And he was teaching in one of the synagogues on the sabbath.
- Luke 13:10

And the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because that Jesus had healed on the sabbath day, and said unto the people, There are six days in which men ought to work: in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day.
- Luke 13:14

The Lord then answered him, and said, Thou hypocrite, doth not each one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or his ass from the stall, and lead him away to watering?
- Luke 13:15

And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?
- Luke 13:16

And it came to pass, as he went into the house of one of the chief Pharisees to eat bread on the sabbath day, that they watched him.
- Luke 14:1

And Jesus answering spake unto the lawyers and Pharisees, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath day?
- Luke 14:3

And answered them, saying, Which of you shall have an ass or an ox fallen into a pit, and will not straightway pull him out on the sabbath day?
- Luke 14:5

And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.
- Luke 23:54

And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
- Luke 23:56

And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and on the same day was the sabbath.
- John 5:9

The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed.
- John 5:10

And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
- John 5:16

Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
- John 5:18

Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.
- John 7:22

If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?
- John 7:23

And it was the sabbath day when Jesus made the clay, and opened his eyes.
- John 9:14

Therefore said some of the Pharisees, This man is not of God, because he keepeth not the sabbath day. Others said, How can a man that is a sinner do such miracles? And there was a division among them.
- John 9:16

The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
- John 19:31

Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.
- Acts 1:12

But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.
- Acts 13:14

For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.
- Acts 13:27

And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
- Acts 13:42

And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
- Acts 13:44

For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
- Acts 15:21

And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.
- Acts 16:13

And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
- Acts 17:2

And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.
- Acts 18:4

 

[Doug Brents]

For someone who keeps saying the Sabbath is "Old Covenant" there sure was a lot of Sabbath- keeping going on in the New Covenant.

I didn't say that no one worshiped on the sabbath in New Covenant times, nor have I ever said that the sabbath was not mentioned numerous times in the New Covenant Scriptures. What I have said, and what you have yet to contradict, is that the New Covenant Scriptures do not contain any command to keep the sabbath. I'm not talking about examples of people worshiping on the sabbath. Or the Apostles teaching on the sabbath. But can you show me one single place where the command to keep the sabbath is stated in the New Covenant Scriptures.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Here let me help find the forgotten commandment that is all over the NT scriptures

1. "You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve" (Matthew 4:10).
2. "Little children, keep yourselves from idols" (1 John 5:21). "Since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man’s devising" (Acts 17:29).
3. "That the name of God and His doctrine may not be blasphemed" (1 Timothy 6:1).
4. "He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: 'And God rested on the seventh day from all His works.' There remains therefore a rest ["keeping of a sabbath," margin] for the people of God. For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His" (Hebrews 4:4, 9, 10).
they rested
And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment. Luke 23:56
5. "Honor your father and your mother" (Matthew 19:19).
6. "You shall not murder" (Romans 13:9).
7. "You shall not commit adultery" (Matthew 19:18).
8. "You shall not steal" (Romans 13:9).
9. "You shall not bear false witness" (Romans 13:9).
10. "You shall not covet" (Romans 7:7).

For someone who keeps saying the Sabbath is "Old Covenant" there sure was a lot of Sabbath- keeping going on in the New Covenant.

At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.
- Matthew 12:1

But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.
- Matthew 12:2

Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
- Matthew 12:5

For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
- Matthew 12:8

And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.
- Matthew 12:10

And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?
- Matthew 12:11

How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.
- Matthew 12:12

But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
- Matthew 24:20

In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
- Matthew 28:1

And they went into Capernaum; and straightway on the sabbath day he entered into the synagogue, and taught.
- Mark 1:21

And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn.
- Mark 2:23

And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?
- Mark 2:24

And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
- Mark 2:27

Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
- Mark 2:28

And they watched him, whether he would heal him on the sabbath day; that they might accuse him.
- Mark 3:2

And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.
- Mark 3:4

And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands?
- Mark 6:2

And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,
- Mark 15:42

And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
- Mark 16:1

And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
- Luke 4:16

And came down to Capernaum, a city of Galilee, and taught them on the sabbath days.
- Luke 4:31

And it came to pass on the second sabbath after the first, that he went through the corn fields; and his disciples plucked the ears of corn, and did eat, rubbing them in their hands.
- Luke 6:1

And certain of the Pharisees said unto them, Why do ye that which is not lawful to do on the sabbath days?
- Luke 6:2

And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
- Luke 6:5

And it came to pass also on another sabbath, that he entered into the synagogue and taught: and there was a man whose right hand was withered.
- Luke 6:6

And the scribes and Pharisees watched him, whether he would heal on the sabbath day; that they might find an accusation against him.
- Luke 6:7

Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy it?
- Luke 6:9

And he was teaching in one of the synagogues on the sabbath.
- Luke 13:10

And the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because that Jesus had healed on the sabbath day, and said unto the people, There are six days in which men ought to work: in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day.
- Luke 13:14

The Lord then answered him, and said, Thou hypocrite, doth not each one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or his ass from the stall, and lead him away to watering?
- Luke 13:15

And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?
- Luke 13:16

And it came to pass, as he went into the house of one of the chief Pharisees to eat bread on the sabbath day, that they watched him.
- Luke 14:1

And Jesus answering spake unto the lawyers and Pharisees, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath day?
- Luke 14:3

And answered them, saying, Which of you shall have an ass or an ox fallen into a pit, and will not straightway pull him out on the sabbath day?
- Luke 14:5

And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.
- Luke 23:54

And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
- Luke 23:56

And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and on the same day was the sabbath.
- John 5:9

The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed.
- John 5:10

And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
- John 5:16

Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
- John 5:18

Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.
- John 7:22

If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?
- John 7:23

And it was the sabbath day when Jesus made the clay, and opened his eyes.
- John 9:14

Therefore said some of the Pharisees, This man is not of God, because he keepeth not the sabbath day. Others said, How can a man that is a sinner do such miracles? And there was a division among them.
- John 9:16

The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
- John 19:31

Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.
- Acts 1:12

But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.
- Acts 13:14

For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.
- Acts 13:27

And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
- Acts 13:42

And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
- Acts 13:44

For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
- Acts 15:21

And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.
- Acts 16:13

And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
- Acts 17:2

And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.
- Acts 18:4

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

I didn't say that no one worshiped on the sabbath in New Covenant times, nor have I ever said that the sabbath was not mentioned numerous times in the New Covenant Scriptures. What I have said, and what you have yet to contradict, is that the New Covenant Scriptures do not contain any command to keep the sabbath. I'm not talking about examples of people worshiping on the sabbath. Or the Apostles teaching on the sabbath. But can you show me one single place where the command to keep the sabbath is stated in the New Covenant Scriptures.

All these people , Jesus the 12 disciples , paul were Jews, they lived as Jews and followed it, just like christian going to church on sunday ( wrong day by the way) you dont think about it you just go.

Paul and Jesus were quoting the commandments on some occasions as you know for have cited this yourself. They enumerate a few so people know what the topic is, Note that they never have given the full list of the 10 so does it mean that the unmentioned commandments are nul, abolished? Of course not!

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The New Covenant is made only with Jews! Heb 8:10 God never identified the Ten Commandments as the commandments of the Jews- God claimed them as His- My commandments Exo 20:6. God’s people keep God’s commandments through love and faith 1 John 5:3 Rev 14:12

Guess we need to figure out how to be part of God’s Israel so we can be grafted into God’s Church. Disobedience is not the way.

We can find excuses why not to follow Jesus, or we can just follow Him like we are told, the choice is ours. Whoever we obey is the path we end up on. Better to obey God the way He said because....He is God and we should love Him enough to do what He asks and trust what He asks of us is because He knows its for our own good. It’s what faith is all about, doing something God asks even if it doesn’t make sense to us but trust He will reveal why when we follow Him and He does and has all which is revealed all throughout His Word.

One path leads to sin, breaking God's law 1 John 3:4 unto death Rev 22:15, the other path leads to righteousness, keeping God's law Rom 6:16 and reconciles us with God Rom 6:16 Rev 22:14

Its all about our choices.

 

[Bro.T]

Was the lady and her children to whom this letter is addressed a Jew? It is unlikely at this point in history (there being by the end of the first century (when this letter was written) many more Gentile Christ followers than Jewish ones). So when was the beginning that she heard the commands of God? When she heard the Gospel of Jesus. John is not talking about her knowing the OT Scriptures, but the NT commands of Jesus that the Apostles and other disciples taught. Yes, she needs to continue to walk in the commands of God, "in the truth", and not in any false doctrines like the Judaizers tried to spread even in the first century.

I need Biblical prove of what saying because the Bible is clear about keeping Commandments, which includes the Sabbath day on the seventh day of the week, from Genesis to Revelation.
The commandments of God are not hard to keep (I John 5:3) and furthermore, they teach us love in the highest degree. If you love Jesus you will keep his commandments (St. John 14:15). You will not displease the Lord by: Worshipping other gods, having graven images, taking his name in vain, breaking his Sabbath day (which is Saturday not Sunday), or dishonoring your parents. On the other hand, if you love your neighbor as yourself you will not kill him, commit adultery with his spouse, steal from him, falsely accuse him, or covet anything of his.

This is true love, and if obeyed how much better would our world be? This is why Jesus said that the two greatest commandments are loving the Lord with all your heart, soul, and mind; and loving your neighbor as yourself (Matthew 22:35-40). These two commandments are the foundation of the entire law. Many reject the law, but it is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good (Romans 7:12) even today.

 

[JSRG]

The authorship of 2 Peter has long been a subject of scholarly debate, with some scholars suggesting it might be a forgery. While there is no consensus, there are several arguments against its authenticity, which center around language, historical context, and theological concerns.

Okay, let's look at some of these arguments from this post that for the most part looks very suspiciously like it were written up by an AI generator rather than a human.

One of the main arguments is the late date of composition. Critics point out that the letter seems to reference the writings of Paul as scripture (2 Peter 3:15-16), which would imply that the letters of Paul were already widely circulated and recognized as authoritative at the time of writing. This seems anachronistic if 2 Peter was indeed written in the first century, as Paul’s letters had not yet been universally acknowledged as scripture during that period. Many scholars believe this suggests 2 Peter was written later, possibly in the early second century, after the death of Peter.

It is not clear why this would mean it was written later; all that would be required is that the author of Peter be aware of the fact Paul wrote some letters.

Another significant issue is the difference in writing style. The Greek in 2 Peter is much more sophisticated and polished than in 1 Peter. Some scholars note that the language of 2 Peter shows a higher level of rhetorical sophistication, which contrasts with the simpler, more “rough” Greek of 1 Peter. This difference has led some to suggest that 2 Peter was written by someone else, possibly a later writer, rather than the apostle Peter himself. Moreover, there are words and expressions in 2 Peter that appear in writings from the late first or early second century, such as those found in Jude and other early Christian texts.

Either you (if you did write this) or your AI generator makes a very noticeable error here: It makes the claim that the "Greek in 2 Peter is much more sophisticated and polished than in 1 Peter". Say what? It's the opposite! 1 Peter is the one with better Greek, which is where the argument comes from. This is really basic information, and it speaks poorly of your AI generator to goof this up (or, if this wasn't AI-written, it speaks poorly of your own knowledge). It's true the basic argument remains the same (the claim the letters are written differently) but this just shows lack of knowledge on the subject.

However, there is a reasonable explanation for this difference in writing style found in the letters themselves. In 1 Peter 5:12, it is stated "With the help of Silas, whom I regard as a faithful brother, I have written to you briefly, encouraging you and testifying that this is the true grace of God." No such statement is found in 2 Peter. Thus we have an explanation right here for why 1 Peter has better Greek than 2 Peter; Peter had assistance with the former. That is indeed what is argued by this essay.

In addition, the letter’s late acceptance into the New Testament canon adds to the skepticism about its authenticity. Some early Christian writers, such as Origen, expressed uncertainty about the letter’s authorship, and it was not universally accepted as canonical until the fourth century. Church fathers like Eusebius categorized it as disputed, while others, like Athanasius, included it in their lists of accepted writings. This delayed acceptance raises questions about its authenticity, especially when compared to other New Testament books that were more widely recognized from an earlier date.

Another point of interest is the similarity to Jude. There are striking similarities in both language and content between 2 Peter and the book of Jude, such as warnings against false teachers and references to the punishment of fallen angels. Some scholars argue that 2 Peter may have been dependent on Jude, which would suggest that it was written after Jude, further supporting the theory that 2 Peter was written in the second century.

Even if we suppose that similarities mean one letter was influenced by the other, why could Jude not be later the later one and based on 2 Peter?

Only 2 peter 3:15 prevents paul's writings from being rejected, they are canon because of this verse only.

This also contradicts your earlier claim that "This seems anachronistic if 2 Peter was indeed written in the first century, as Paul’s letters had not yet been universally acknowledged as scripture during that period." So if the argument is that 2 Peter was written later because Paul's letters had to be universally acknowledged first, then how is it they are only acknowledged because of 2 Peter? You're claiming that Paul's letters were canon only because of this verse, but then you're also saying that this verse could only have been written after Paul's letters were canon.

This same issue applies to your appeal to how 2 Peter wasn't universally accepted as canonical. But the same people who appear to have expressed uncertainty regarding 2 Peter's authorship and canonicity did accept Paul's letters; they clearly didn't require 2 Peter's statement to accept Paul's letters.

So it's obvious they are not canon because of this verse only.

 

[Doug Brents]

All these people , Jesus the 12 disciples , paul were Jews, they lived as Jews and followed it, just like christian going to church on sunday ( wrong day by the way) you dont think about it you just go.

Paul and Jesus were quoting the commandments on some occasions as you know for have cited this yourself. They enumerate a few so people know what the topic is, Note that they never have given the full list of the 10 so does it mean that the unmentioned commandments are nul, abolished? Of course not!

Yes, it does mean that the commandments that are not mentioned are null and abolished. There are dozens of places where commandments from the OT are mentioned in the NT, but not a single NT Scripture references the fourth. As demonstrated in the grid a couple of posts back, the other nine have been restated in the NT as being law in the NT, but the fourth was not stated as law, so it is not binding on the NT Christ follower.

And there is no set day for worship (so no wrong day to worship by the way). There can be no "wrong way", if there isn't a "right way".

 

[Doug Brents]

I need Biblical prove of what saying because the Bible is clear about keeping Commandments, which includes the Sabbath day on the seventh day of the week, from Genesis to Revelation.

Yes, in the OT it was very clear that keeping the sabbath was a requirement. But we are not under the OT anymore (as has been demonstrated through Scripture (Gal 4:21-5:7). That constitutes Biblical proof.

The commandments of God are not hard to keep (I John 5:3) and furthermore, they teach us love in the highest degree. If you love Jesus you will keep his commandments (St. John 14:15).

This is true, but you have to be careful what commandments you include in this statement. The commands of the OT were impossible to keep for a human. It took God taking the form of a human and living as one of us to keep the OT commandments perfectly. It is because of our weakness that the OT was removed, and a New Covenant established that we could keep (Heb 7:11-21).

You will not displease the Lord by: Worshiping other gods, having graven images, taking his name in vain, breaking his Sabbath day (which is Saturday not Sunday), or dishonoring your parents. On the other hand, if you love your neighbor as yourself you will not kill him, commit adultery with his spouse, steal from him, falsely accuse him, or covet anything of his.

All of the bolded commandments you list above are restated in the NT, but the ones that are not bolded are not stated in the NT. So they are not law to the NT Christ follower.

And yes, the sabbath was Saturday (from sundown on Friday night to sundown on Saturday night). But that is not the day we are commanded to worship on today.

This is true love, and if obeyed how much better would our world be? This is why Jesus said that the two greatest commandments are loving the Lord with all your heart, soul, and mind; and loving your neighbor as yourself (Matthew 22:35-40). These two commandments are the foundation of the entire law. Many reject the law, but it is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good (Romans 7:12) even today.

Sorry, but the OT commands are not still valid today. They were expunged because Jesus fulfilled them, and made them obsolete when He instituted the New Covenant.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Luke 23:56
And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment.

Heb 4:9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;

The rest in this verse literally translates into keeping of the Sabbath

so there remains a keeping of the Sabbath for the people of God
because God’s people keep God’s commandments- His version Exo 20:6 Rev 14:12 Rev 22:14 not what was changed we are warned about Dan 7:25

sabbatismos: Sabbath rest
Original Word: σαββατισμός
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Pronunciation: sab-bat-is-mos'
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Definition: Sabbath rest
Meaning: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.

God wrote and God spoke these Words- who is greater than God to change a jot or tittle?

Exodus 20:1010 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God

Man says forget the Sabbath

God wrote and God said
Exo 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Whoever we obey is who we serve Rom 6:16

The only way one comes to the conclusion the Sabbath is not a commandment in the NT and kept by everyone we are to follow is if they take a black marker to what Jesus taught and lived and start removing God’s Word The Church started in the wilderness. But in doing so there are some warnings Pro 30:5-6 and one would be following “self” and holding “traditions of man” over the commandments of God making the Word of God of no effect something Jesus warned about Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13

What Christ deemed righteous Psa 119:172 Isa 56:1-6 stays righteous Psa 119:142 Rev 22:11 we need to come out of our false teachings Rev 18:4 before its too late because once Jesus comes in the Clouds all decisions are final Rev 22:11

 

[Doug Brents]

Luke 23:56
And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment.

First off, Jesus had not yet risen from the dead yet, so the argument could be made that the New Covenant had not yet started. I don't have a solid stance on this, as the NT could have stared when He died, or when He arose three days later, and the case could be made either way.

Secondly, what sabbath was this? John 19:31 tells us that the day following Jesus execution was a High sabbath, "for that Sabbath was a high day". This means that it was not the seventh day sabbath that immediately followed Jesus' death. It was Thursday when he died, the following day being a Friday (High sabbath), and then the normal Saturday sabbath following that. Then Jesus arose on the third day (Sunday).

Heb 4:9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;

Yes, there remains a sabbath rest, after the seventh day sabbath has been removed, and that sabbath rest that remains is in the person of Jesus.

The only way one comes to the conclusion the Sabbath is not a commandment in the NT and kept by everyone we are to follow is if they take a black marker to what Jesus taught and lived and start removing God’s Word. But in doing so there are some warnings Pro 30:5-6 and one would be following “self” and holding “traditions of man” over the commandments of God making the Word of God of no effect something Jesus warned about Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13

What Christ deemed righteous Psa 119:172 Isa 56:1-6 stays righteous Psa 119:142 Rev 22:11

What was righteous under the OC may or may not be righteous under the NC. Just because it was God's command under the OC does not make it a command under the NC. You have done a good job of showing that keeping the sabbath was a command under the OC, but you have yet to demonstrate that it is a command under the NC. When you make up the Scripture that says that it is, then we can take and I will show you how you made it up. But there is no Scripture that shows that the command of the OC to keep the sabbath is still valid in the NC.

we need to come out of our false teachings Rev 18:4 before its too late because once Jesus comes in the Clouds all decisions are final Rev 22:11

Very true. I hope you come out of your falsehoods into the Light before then.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

First off, Jesus had not yet risen from the dead yet, so the argument could be made that the New Covenant had not yet started. I don't have a solid stance on this, as the NT could have stared when He died, or when He arose three days later, and the case could be made either way.

Secondly, what sabbath was this? John 19:31 tells us that the day following Jesus execution was a High sabbath, "for that Sabbath was a high day". This means that it was not the seventh day sabbath that immediately followed Jesus' death. It was Thursday when he died, the following day being a Friday (High sabbath), and then the normal Saturday sabbath following that. Then Jesus arose on the third day (Sunday).

Yes, there remains a sabbath rest, after the seventh day sabbath has been removed, and that sabbath rest that remains is in the person of Jesus.

What was righteous under the OC may or may not be righteous under the NC. Just because it was God's command under the OC does not make it a command under the NC. You have done a good job of showing that keeping the sabbath was a command under the OC, but you have yet to demonstrate that it is a command under the NC. When you make up the Scripture that says that it is, then we can take and I will show you how you made it up. But there is no Scripture that shows that the command of the OC to keep the sabbath is still valid in the NC.

Very true. I hope you come out of your falsehoods into the Light before then.

A high Sabbath means it was on one of the annual feast days as well as the seventh day Sabbath

When Jesus rested on the Sabbath in death, which it was the Sabbath rest according to the commandment Luke 23:56 but it was also the Passover John 19:14 hence why it was called a high Sabbath.


There is no scripture that says this

Yes, there remains a sabbath rest, after the seventh day sabbath has been removed, and that sabbath rest that remains is in the person of Jesus.

or this:​

What was righteous under the OC may or may not be righteous under the NC. Just because it was God's command under the OC does not make it a command under the NC.

I would be careful friend Pro 30:5-6


Jesus ratified His covenant at His death which was Friday.

You would think if Jesus was going to change one of His commandments He would have told His very close followers and friends, but did He do that? No of course not which is why even in death they faithfully kept the Sabbath according to the commandment Luke 23:56, because it was just that a commandment and its what God's people do, they follow Christ example and obey Him through faith and love. There is no scripture that says the Sabbath is not one of God's commandments- this argument is against God, because He said it was Exo 20:6 Exo 20:8-11 and Jesus said not a jot or tittle can pass because no one is above God. Its a very sad argument indeed.


Jesus in His own Words said the Sabbath would be kept up to His Second Coming Mat 24:20 so I am going to live by every Word God says instead of what man teaches. Even the apostles taught this Acts 5:29

 

[Doug Brents]

A high Sabbath means it was on one of the annual feast days as well as the seventh day Sabbath

When Jesus rested on the Sabbath, which is according to the commandment Luke 23:56 but it was also the Passover John 19:14 hence why it was called a high Sabbath.

There is no scripture that says this

There are many sabbaths that fall on days other than the seventh day. The Passover falls on the 15th of Nisan, which means that it could fall on any day of the week. Most years, the Passover will fall on a day other than the seventh day (six chances our of seven). And on one year out of seven Passover will fall on Friday, and another one out of seven it will fall on Sunday, both cases resulting in two sabbaths in a row (Friday and Saturday, or Saturday and Sunday). While this is not stated in Scripture, this is how calendars work. This year, Christmas is on Wednesday. Next year it will fall on Thursday, and in 2026 it will fall on Friday. This is what happens when a holiday falls on a certain day of the month, instead of on a certain day of the week, like Thanksgiving. Because God made Passover fall on the 15th of Nisan, each year it will fall on a different day. And then Pentecost will always, always fall on the day of the week AFTER the day Passover fell on. Pentecost falls on the 50th day after Passover, or seven weeks plus 1 day. This means that Jesus ate the Passover on Wednesday night, and was Crucified on Thursday, and then Friday was the High sabbath (First day of feast of weeks), and then Saturday was the normal seventh day sabbath, then Jesus arose on Sunday. Pentecost then fell on Saturday, 50 days after Passover.

or this
Jesus ratified His covenant at His death which was Friday.

		Day		Night
			10th of Nisan
Sunday	10th of Nisan	Jesus enteres Jerusalem Lamb selection day	11th of Nisan
Monday	11th of Nisan		12th of Nisan
Tuesday	12th of Nisan		13th of Nisan
Wednesday	13th of Nisan		14th of Nisan	Lamb sacrificed and eaten
Thursday	14th of Nisan	Jesus (the Lamb) died	15th of Nisan
Friday	15th of Nisan		16th of Nisan
Saturday	16th of Nisan		17th of Nisan	Jesus resurrected
Sunday	17th of Nisan	Jesus revealed alive

Jesus died on Thursday, the 14th of Nisan, and was resurrected early on the morning of the 17th (three days later). If He had died on Friday, then there would not have been three days and three nights between His death and resurrection (Matt 12:40).

You would think if Jesus was going to change one of His commandments He would have told His very close followers and friends, but did He do that? No of course not which is why even in death they faithfully kept the Sabbath according to the commandment, because it was just that a commandment and what God's people do, they follow Christ example and obey Him through faith and love.

It is clear from Scripture that even the Apostles, the closest students He had, did not understand all of what He told them when He said it. Peter still thought that some foods were unclean three years after Jesus' death when the Spirit of the Lord showed him the vision of eating "unclean" foods and sent him to preach to Cornelius. But Jesus had made all meats clean back in Mark 7:18-19.