Why we are not supposed to keep the Sabbath

[ozso]

So in your opinion Luke 22:20 means Jesus ended the Sabbath, despite this verse saying nothing of the sort, so the Sabbath according to you ended at His death?

Once again; Jesus God fulfilled His sabbath and all of His commandments of His old covenant to establish His/God's New Covenant.

He taught His New Covenant and He lived and died and rose again to fulfill and establish it.

You want to live part way under the old covenant and teach others to do likewise.

In Luke 22:20 Jesus speaks of the establishment of His New Covenant.

And apparently all of the Ten Commandments since the other 9 were also in the Holy of Holies- The Sabbath was not in a covenant by itself, it came with 9 other commandments written by the finger of God, that God placed in a unit of Ten by His design, so now according to you, we are free to worship other gods, free to murder, free to steal, free to vain His name, free to bow to idols, free to covet? Is this what you’re teaching and we are just ignore what Jesus taught in Mat 5:18-30 Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13 Mat 19:17–19 John 15:10 John 14:15 etc etc

The commandments God gave on Mt. Sinai were the old covenant He established with the Hebrews. However way before then idol worship, murder, theft, blasphemy etc was not sectioned by God. In other words God was against those things from Adam to Moses.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

In Luke 22:20 Jesus speaks of the establishment of His New Covenant.



The commandments God gave on Mt. Sinai were the old covenant He established with the Hebrews. However way before then idol worship, murder, theft, blasphemy etc was not sectioned by God. In other words God was against those things from Adam to Moses.

Yes, agreed, God gave an new covenant.

But what is it established on?

Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.

So the New Covenant is established on better promises, not better or new laws. You can’t make God’s perfect law converting the soul Psa 19:7 written by our perfect Savior Exo 31:18, more perfect, why the NC is established on His better promises, we can keep His perfect law through a right relationship with Christ.

God did not do away with His law as many teach in error, He only changed the placement. It went from tables of stone to tables of the heart.

Heb 8:10 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

It’s why Jesus taught not to break or teach others to break the least of these and in doing so one would be in fear of sin and Judgement Mat 5:19-30 Jesus loves us so much, through our love and faith in Him, He is the one enabling us to keep His commandments, we just have to cooperate.

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

Isn’t it a much better promises to know that through our love and faith in God He is the one enabling us to keep His commandments instead of depending on our own efforts? In the New Covenant Jesus is our High Priest and Mediator and when we slip and fall for breaking God’s law which is sin 1 John 3:4 James 2:10-12 instead of bringing an animal sacrifice, we can go directly to Him when we have a sorry heart and confess and repent of our sins, which means a change of heart and a change of direction and He will cleanse us of all sin and unrighteousness, but when He heals He says go and sin no more. Our salvation is from sin Mat 1:21 we are not saved in our sins Heb 10:26-30

 

[ozso]

Yes, agreed, God gave an new covenant.

But what is it established on?

His blood. Luke 22:20

Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.

So the New Covenant is established on better promises, not better or new laws. You can’t make God’s perfect law converting the soul Psa 19:7 written by our perfect Savior Exo 31:18, more perfect, why the NC is established on His better promises, we can keep His perfect law through a right relationship with Christ.

God did not do away with His law as many teach in error, He only changed the placement. It went from tables of stone to tables of the heart.

Heb 8:10 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

It’s why Jesus taught not to break or teach others to break the least of these and in doing so one would be in fear of sin and Judgement Mat 5:19-30 Jesus loves us so much, through our love and faith in Him, He is the one enabling us to keep His commandments, we just have to cooperate.

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

Isn’t it a much better promises to know that through our love and faith in God He is the one enabling us to keep His commandments instead of depending on our own efforts? In the New Covenant Jesus is our High Priest and Mediator and when we slip and fall for breaking God’s law which is sin 1 John 3:4 James 2:10-12 we can go directly to Him when we have a sorry heart and confess and repent of our sins, which means a change of heart and a change of direction and He will cleanse us of all sin and unrighteousness, but when He heals He says go and sin no more. Our salvation is from sin Mat 1:21 we are not saved in our sins Heb 10:26-30

That's latter-day unorthodox teaching via eisegesis.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

His blood. Luke 22:20

Agreed, yet after His Cross- the Sabbath was still a commandment Luke 23:56, Jesus said would be kept decades after and up to His Second Coming Mat 24:20 and the apostles all kept every Sabbath some 40 years after the Cross Acts 15:21, Acts 13:42 Acts 13:33 Acts 18:4 etc. just as Jesus told them to observe everything He commanded Mat 24:18-20

That's latter-day unorthodox teaching via eisegesis.

I wasn’t quoting me, I was quoting scripture, which seems to be what you are in disagreement is with.

Let me know when you can find one verse that God abrogated the Sabbath commandment. God blessed Num 23:20 man cannot reverse so one would need a thus saith the Lord.

You can read the Bible from cover to cover and not find this verse, so until then for me, I am going to follow what Jesus said, follow in His footsteps, who kept the commandments and the Sabbath and trust in doing so, its for my own good.

 

[Leaf473]

So in your opinion Luke 22:20 means Jesus ended the Sabbath, despite this verse saying nothing of the sort, so the Sabbath according to you ended at His death? And apparently all of the Ten Commandments since the other 9 were also in the Holy of Holies- The Sabbath was not in a covenant by itself, it came with 9 other commandments written by the finger of God, that God placed in a unit of Ten by His design, so now according to you,

we are free to worship other gods,

free to murder, free to steal, free to vain His name, free to bow to idols, free to covet? Is this what you’re teaching and we are just ignore what Jesus taught in Mat 5:18-30 Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13 Mat 19:17–19 John 15:10 John 14:15 etc etc

The issue that I see is that if a particular law does not apply to us, it does not mean that we are then free to do the actions prohibited by that law

Does that make sense so far?

Assuming that it makes sense, then it would follow that the Ten Commandments might no longer apply to us, yet at the same time we would not be free to worship other gods.

 

[ozso]

Agreed, yet after His Cross- the Sabbath was still a commandment Luke 23:56, Jesus said would be kept decades after and up to His Second Coming Mat 24:20 and the apostles all kept every Sabbath some 40 years after the Cross Acts 15:21, Acts 13:42 Acts 13:33 Acts 18:4 etc. just as Jesus told them to observe everything He commanded Mat 24:18-20

I wasn’t quoting me, I was quoting scripture, which seems to be what you are in disagreement is with.

Let me know when you can find one verse that God abrogated the Sabbath commandment. God blessed Num 23:20 man cannot reverse so one would need a thus saith the Lord.

You can read the Bible from cover to cover and not find this verse, so until then for me, I am going to follow what Jesus said, follow in His footsteps, who kept the commandments and the Sabbath and trust in doing so, its for my own good.

You always say "I wasn’t quoting me, I was quoting scripture" but everything in red is your words:

Yes, agreed, God gave an new covenant.

But what is it established on?

Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.

So the New Covenant is established on better promises, not better or new laws. You can’t make God’s perfect law converting the soul Psa 19:7 written by our perfect Savior Exo 31:18, more perfect, why the NC is established on His better promises, we can keep His perfect law through a right relationship with Christ.

God did not do away with His law as many teach in error, He only changed the placement. It went from tables of stone to tables of the heart.

Heb 8:10 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

It’s why Jesus taught not to break or teach others to break the least of these and in doing so one would be in fear of sin and Judgement Mat 5:19-30 Jesus loves us so much, through our love and faith in Him, He is the one enabling us to keep His commandments, we just have to cooperate.

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

Isn’t it a much better promises to know that through our love and faith in God He is the one enabling us to keep His commandments instead of depending on our own efforts? In the New Covenant Jesus is our High Priest and Mediator and when we slip and fall for breaking God’s law which is sin 1 John 3:4 James 2:10-12 instead of bringing an animal sacrifice, we can go directly to Him when we have a sorry heart and confess and repent of our sins, which means a change of heart and a change of direction and He will cleanse us of all sin and unrighteousness, but when He heals He says go and sin no more. Our salvation is from sin Mat 1:21 we are not saved in our sins Heb 10:26-30

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You always say "I wasn’t quoting me, I was quoting scripture" but everything in red is your words.


Yes, agreed, God gave an new covenant.

But what is it established on?

Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.

So the New Covenant is established on better promises, not better or new laws. You can’t make God’s perfect law converting the soul Psa 19:7 written by our perfect Savior Exo 31:18, more perfect, why the NC is established on His better promises, we can keep His perfect law through a right relationship with Christ.

God did not do away with His law as many teach in error, He only changed the placement. It went from tables of stone to tables of the heart.

Heb 8:10 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

It’s why Jesus taught not to break or teach others to break the least of these and in doing so one would be in fear of sin and Judgement Mat 5:19-30 Jesus loves us so much, through our love and faith in Him, He is the one enabling us to keep His commandments, we just have to cooperate.

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

Isn’t it a much better promises to know that through our love and faith in God He is the one enabling us to keep His commandments instead of depending on our own efforts? In the New Covenant Jesus is our High Priest and Mediator and when we slip and fall for breaking God’s law which is sin 1 John 3:4 James 2:10-12 instead of bringing an animal sacrifice, we can go directly to Him when we have a sorry heart and confess and repent of our sins, which means a change of heart and a change of direction and He will cleanse us of all sin and unrighteousness, but when He heals He says go and sin no more. Our salvation is from sin Mat 1:21 we are not saved in our sins Heb 10:26-30

Prove by scripture what I said is incorrect. Most of it was quoting or referencing scripture. For example

What I said:

So the New Covenant is established on better promises, not better or new laws.

What scripture says:

Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.

So how what I said was in error?

Prove it through the scriptures. Accusations are easy, proof on the other hand, not as easy.

 

[Leaf473]

Prove by scripture what I said is incorrect. Most of it was quoting or referencing scripture. For example

What I said:

So the New Covenant is established on better promises, not better or new laws.

Hi SB

It's not a necessary exclusion

The New Covenant could be established both on better promises and better or new laws

What scripture says:

Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.

So how what I said was in error?

Prove it through the scriptures. Accusations are easy, proof on the other hand, not as easy.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I am not interested in “could be’s”. God never wrote His Word on “what could be”

He tells us verbatim what its established on Heb 8:6, whether we choose to believe Him at His Word or not, is up to us.

But this is the reason people have such a hard time with scripture, they want to insert “what could be” instead of allowing Him to direct our paths, Pro 3:5-6 which He does through His Word, they way He said.

 

[Leaf473]

I am not interested in “could be’s”. God never wrote His Word on “what could be”

He tells us verbatim what its established on Heb 8:6,

But he doesn't say it is established only on better promises

whether we choose to believe Him at His Word or not, is up to us.

But this is the reason people have such a hard time with scripture, they want to insert “what could be” instead of allowing Him to direct our paths, Pro 3:5-6 which He does through His Word, they way He said.

 

[ozso]

Prove by scripture what I said is incorrect. Most of it was quoting or referencing scripture. For example

What I said:

So the New Covenant is established on better promises, not better or new laws.

What scripture says:

Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.

So how what I said was in error?

Prove it through the scriptures. Accusations are easy, proof on the other hand, not as easy.

It's latter-day unorthodox teaching via eisegesis of scripture, that the rest of Christianity has never taught.

Eisegesis is the practice of interpreting scripture by inserting one's own ideas, biases, or agendas into it.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

It's latter-day unorthodox teaching via eisegesis of scripture, that the rest of Christianity has never taught.

Ok, I see you’re not interested in having a disucsion on what the scripture actually say but want to cling to your pre-convinced notions of what it says.

Guess we will have to agree to disagree and all will get sorted out soon enough. I wish you well in seeking Truth to God’s Word.

 

[ozso]

Ok, I see you’re not interested in having a disucsion on what the scripture actually say but want to cling to your pre-convinced notions of what it says.

Guess we will have to agree to disagree and all will get sorted out soon enough. I wish you well in seeking Truth to God’s Word.

What the scriptures actually say is found in orthodox Christian teaching over the last 2000 years. Not in latter-day unorthodox teaching via eisegesis.

Eisegesis being the practice of interpreting scripture by inserting one's own ideas, biases, or agendas into it.

You're not teaching truth, you're teaching unorthodox falsehood. Trying to use God's Word to do so, just makes it worse.

 

[Leaf473]

I think what many of our seventh-day-observing brothers and sisters in Christ would like is a passage that says that the same laws in the Old Covenant are in the New Covenant

I don't think there is such a passage, but there is this

Galatians 5 The whole law is fulfilled in one word, in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself"

which says to me that the same laws are present, but practiced differently

 

[guevaraj]

the same laws are present, but practiced differently

Brother, a good example of such a difference is that circumcision continues as a cutting away of the sinful nature in Judaism by Jesus. It is still a circumcision not done by humans but by Jesus, where the Ten Commandments are kept by the far greater glory of Jesus' obedience as the son of Sarah, who is our model "Spirit" to do the same as, than to do the same disobedience of the Ten commandments by Judaism in the resulting sons of Hagar substituting the Ten Commandments with human law that disobeys the Ten Commandments as explained by Jesus in the following passage.

Then he said, “You skillfully sidestep God’s law (nomos)/Commandments (entolé) in order to hold on to your own tradition. For instance, Moses gave you this law (nomos)/Commandment (entolé) from God: ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and ‘Anyone who speaks disrespectfully of father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say it is all right for people to say to their parents, ‘Sorry, I can’t help you. For I have vowed to give to God what I would have given to you.’ In this way, you let them disregard their needy parents. And so you cancel the word of God in order to hand down your own tradition. And this is only one example among many others.” (Mark 7:9-13 NLT fixed)​

Christ performed a circumcision in Jesus' example of obedience to the Ten Commandments in the cutting away of Judaism's sinful nature. Judaism's disobedience of the Ten Commandments in the resulting sons of Hagar is replaced by the far greater glory of Jesus' obedience as our model "Spirit". Jesus is our model "Spirit" to do the same as Jesus, which helps us obey the glory of the Ten Commandments and more.

When you came to Christ, you were “circumcised,” but not by a physical procedure/human hands. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision—the cutting away of your sinful nature. For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead. (Colossians 2:11-12 NLT fixed)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

The issue that I see is that if a particular law does not apply to us, it does not mean that we are then free to do the actions prohibited by that law

Does that make sense so far?

Why would it not apply if it is good to do so, would you deny that this particular sabbath is good?

While the Ten Commandments summarize the moral law, it extends beyond them and includes various other laws in the Torah (the first five books of the Old Testament), such as prohibitions against lying, stealing, coveting, and bearing false witness, as well as directives for honoring parents, maintaining justice, and caring for the poor and the vulnerable.

The moral law in the Old Testament is seen as a reflection of God's nature and His desire for His people to live righteous, just, and holy lives. These principles are considered to be timeless, forming the foundation for ethical conduct that transcends specific cultural or historical contexts.

Does that make sense so far?

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

I think what many of our seventh-day-observing brothers and sisters in Christ would like is a passage that says that the same laws in the Old Covenant are in the New Covenant

I don't think there is such a passage, but there is this

Galatians 5 The whole law is fulfilled in one word, in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself"

which says to me that the same laws are present, but practiced differently

Leaf there is such a passage, Paul quoted from Jeremiah 31:31-34;

The New Covenant​

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.

Jer 31:32 It will not be like the covenant I made with their fathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt— a covenant they broke, though I was a husband to them,” declares the LORD.

Jer 31:33 “But this is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD. I will put My law in their minds and inscribe it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they will be My people.

Jer 31:34 No longer will each man teach his neighbor or his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ because they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquities and will remember their sins no more.”

is it written "I will put NEW laws?" NO it is written I will put MY LAWS.

Jesus was teaching the commandments so we know it is not NEW laws but the same Laws he said also they would not pass away until heaven and earth pass away.

 

[Leaf473]

Brother, a good example of such a difference is that circumcision continues as a cutting away of the sinful nature in Judaism by Jesus. It is still a circumcision not done by humans but by Jesus, where the Ten Commandments are kept by the far greater glory of Jesus' obedience as the son of Sarah, who is our model "Spirit" to do the same as, than to do the same disobedience of the Ten commandments by Judaism in the resulting sons of Hagar substituting the Ten Commandments with human law that disobeys the Ten Commandments as explained by Jesus in the following passage.

Then he said, “You skillfully sidestep God’s law (nomos)/Commandments (entolé) in order to hold on to your own tradition. For instance, Moses gave you this law (nomos)/Commandment (entolé) from God: ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and ‘Anyone who speaks disrespectfully of father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say it is all right for people to say to their parents, ‘Sorry, I can’t help you. For I have vowed to give to God what I would have given to you.’ In this way, you let them disregard their needy parents. And so you cancel the word of God in order to hand down your own tradition. And this is only one example among many others.” (Mark 7:9-13 NLT fixed)​

Christ performed a circumcision in Jesus' example of obedience to the Ten Commandments in the cutting away of Judaism's sinful nature. Judaism's disobedience of the Ten Commandments in the resulting sons of Hagar is replaced by the far greater glory of Jesus' obedience as our model "Spirit". Jesus is our model "Spirit" to do the same as Jesus, which helps us obey the glory of the Ten Commandments and more.

When you came to Christ, you were “circumcised,” but not by a physical procedure/human hands. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision—the cutting away of your sinful nature. For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead. (Colossians 2:11-12 NLT fixed)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Hello brother

It makes sense, then, that we would keep the Spirit of the law, not the outward ritual of Friday evening to Saturday evening

John 4:23
But the hour comes, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth

 

[Leaf473]

Why would it not apply if it is good to do so,

It's the same idea as how the laws of North Korea don't apply to me

Some of them may be good, some of them may be not, but they don't apply to me either way

...would you deny that this particular sabbath is good?

Do you mean the seventh day Sabbath? I agree that resting is good. But I don't see a moral difference between resting at Friday evening or Monday evening

While the Ten Commandments summarize the moral law, it extends beyond them and includes various other laws in the Torah (the first five books of the Old Testament), such as prohibitions against lying, stealing, coveting, and bearing false witness, as well as directives for honoring parents, maintaining justice, and caring for the poor and the vulnerable.

The moral law in the Old Testament is seen as a reflection of God's nature and His desire for His people to live righteous, just, and holy lives. These principles are considered to be timeless, forming the foundation for ethical conduct that transcends specific cultural or historical contexts.

Does that make sense so far?

It makes a great deal of sense

It requires that we have an innate understanding of what the moral law is, does it not?

Philippians 4:8
Finally, brothers, whatever things are true, whatever things are honorable, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report: if there is any virtue and if there is any praise, think about these things

 

[Bob S]

The moral law, that we speak of, the 10 commandments ARE the covenant and were placed in the ARK OF THE COVENANT.

Only nine of the ten commands in the 10 commandments dealt with morality, how the Israelites dealt with God and their fellow man. The Sabbath command was dealing with a day. It was ceremonial just as were the feast days, new moons, food laws and circumcision. Laws dealing with morality are forever. Those ceremonial laws were for Israel only.