Why we are not supposed to keep the Sabbath

[SabbathBlessings]

Just to be clear, we think SDA teaching is primarily the result of Ellen G White. Just as LDS teaching is primarily the result of Joseph Smith, JW teaching is primarily the result of Charles Taze Russell, Christian Science teaching is primarily the result of Mary Baker Eddy etc. All of which spang up in 19th century America.

I have not once quoted EGW, my teachings come from scripture. God gave the Sabbath commandment, not EGW. Jesus kept the Sabbath and said follow Me, not EGW. So again, you seem to take issue with the Text. Who cares if someone tells us to obey God the way He said, everything should be tested by scripture.

 

[ozso]

I think rejecting information because it comes from SDA or Messianic is rather biased in itself. Even if you don't agree with them doesn't mean their research is in error.

The suggestion of "never mind the source" immediately puts up a red flag. For conformation on the subject I'd refer it to someone I know who knows all about Eastern Church history, who would have nothing to gain or lose in giving me the unvarnished facts.

 

[ozso]

I have not once quoted EGW, my teachings come from scripture. God gave the Sabbath commandment, not EGW. Jesus kept the Sabbath and said follow Me, not EGW. So again, you seem to take issue with the Text. Who cares if someone tells us to obey God the way He said, everything should be tested by scripture.

No your teachings are based on an eisegesic interpretation of proof text scripture, which I know you didn't come up with on your own, because it's too much like what I've read from others over the years. I know it so well by now I could crank it out myself.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

No your teachings are based on an eisegesic interpretation of proof text scripture, which I know you didn't come up with on your own, because it's too much like what I've read from others. I know it so well by now I could crank it out myself.

I'm not quoting me, I am quoting verbatim what God said and believe it. This is something you are going to have to address with God. God wrote and God spoke His Sabbath commandment, not anyone else. Jesus kept the Sabbath, the apostles kept the Sabbath. we are made in the image of God to be His followers. If you don't want to keep because someone thought we should keep in the 1900 century thats up to you, but it doesn't change what God said on God's Authority. The Catholic church changed the Sabbath commandment to Sunday, so if you would rather obey Rome over God, that's your choice. Whoever we obey if who we serve Rom 6:16

 

[Jerry N.]

The 19th century US religious movements claim their doctrines to be given by supernatural revelations, visions etc.

The word "research" implies a different way - rational, logical, data-based scholarly approach, which is not what happened, there.

If the Council of Laodicea tried to stop keeping the Sabbath on Saturday in canon 29, it must have been a common practice.

 

[ozso]

I'm not quoting me, I am quoting verbatim what God said and believe it. This is something you are going to have to address with God. God wrote and God spoke His Sabbath commandment, not anyone else. Jesus kept the Sabbath, the apostles kept the Sabbath. we are made in the image of God to be His followers. If you don't want to keep because someone thought we should keep in the 1900 century thats up to you, but it doesn't change what God said on God's Authority. The Catholic church changed the Sabbath commandment to Sunday, so if you would rather obey Rome over God, that's your choice. Whoever we obey if who we serve Rom 6:16

Come on now. You're adding commentary to scripture, virtually the same commentary that's written by others as well, and was originally written out by the SDA church, which was taken from the writings of EGW.

See I go to a Pentecostal church, but that doesn't keep me from acknowledging that Pentecostalism originated from Charles Fox Parham in, you guessed it, the 19th century. And that subscribing to it means agreeing with what's read into scripture to support it. When you have to push aside facts to be a part of a sect or denomination, there's a problem.

 

[ozso]

If the Council of Laodicea tried to stop keeping the Sabbath on Saturday in canon 29, it must have been a common practice.

A counsel having to put a stop to a thing, usually isn't a good endorsement for that thing.

 

[Minister Monardo]

Your post is not a reply to the post you quoted. So I am not sure how to continue.

I apologize. I wanted to make a distinction between 'entering His Rest', and a Sabbath observance.
I posted a follow-up after receiving a response from someone else.
I will refrain from further posting on the topic with one comment:
"All things are legal, but not all things edify". I have no concerns over the divisions concerning
observance of days, or otherwise, just 'the heart of the matter', which you seem to comprehend.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Come on now. You're adding commentary to scripture, virtually the same commentary that's written by others as well, and was originally written out by the SDA church, which was taken from the writings of EGW.

See I go to a Pentecostal church, but that doesn't keep me from acknowledging that Pentecostalism originated from Charles Fox Parham in, you guessed it, the 19th century. And that subscribing to it means agreeing with what's read into scripture to support it. When you have to push aside facts to be a part of a sect or denomination, there's a problem.

I'm sorry you see God's Words through the eyes of other people. I believe He speaks to us so plainly.

He not only spoke, He wrote His law. Written out plainly by design.


Exo 20:3 “You shall have no other gods before Me.
4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor [b]serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting[c] the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
7 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
13 “You shall not murder.
14 “You shall not commit adultery.
15 “You shall not steal.
16 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”

 

[Minister Monardo]

I'm sorry you see God's Words through the eyes of other people. I believe He speaks to us so plainly.

He not only spoke, He wrote His law. I believe a 8 year old can understand what these mean.


Exo 20:3 “You shall have no other gods before Me.
4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor [b]serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting[c] the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
7 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
13 “You shall not murder.
14 “You shall not commit adultery.
15 “You shall not steal.
16 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”

Do you actually think that the righteous requirements of the Law are met by "not doing" these things?
"Lord, all these I have observed from my youth".
The covenant at Sinai with Israel is based on this revelation:
Deuteronomy 5:24 And you said: ‘Surely the Lord our God has shown us His glory and His greatness,
and we have heard His voice from the midst of the fire. We have seen this day that God speaks with man; yet he lives.
Jeremiah 7:
22 For I did not speak to your fathers, or command them in the day that I brought them
out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices.
23 But this is what I commanded them, saying, ‘Obey My voice, and I will be your God,
and you shall be My people. And walk in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well with you.’

The Lord established a covenant previously with Abraham under which we all receive the promise.
On what basis was Abraham established by faith"
Genesis 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
So, we find that we keep the Lord's charge, his commandments statutes and laws by learning to hear His Voice, by the Spirit.

And yet, we are not required to circumcise to be in covenant. Why not?
Genesis 17:11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

Therefore, we find there is a covenant of the flesh, and of the Spirit.
John 7:
22 Moses therefore gave you circumcision (not that it is from Moses, but from the fathers),
and you circumcise a man on the Sabbath.
23 If a man receives circumcision on the Sabbath, so that the law of Moses should not be broken,
are you angry with Me because I made a man completely well on the Sabbath?
24 Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”

We are a different priesthood based on the Promised Spirit, not the land of Israel.
Matthew 12:5 Or have you not read in the law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath, and are blameless?

The covenant made at Sinai has nothing to do with the Elect but is based on the covenant with David.
The Laws of Moses were for the sanctity of the land and the people as an Ecclesia after they entered in.
Deuteronomy 4:
13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments;
and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.
14 And the Lord commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments,
that you might observe them in the land which you cross over to possess.

A brother at Corinth was sent away from the Fellowship for a time for being an adulterer. 1 Co 5
Paul did not say "Take him outside the city and stone him to death", as required by the Law. Why not?
Because that Law was for the Holy Land, not the New Covenant.

Furthermore, the Levitical Law was added because of transgressions.
Galatians 3:19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions,
till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made, appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.
This Law is done away with in Christ.

Do we actually believe that Jesus was talking about Sinai when He said we must keep His commandments?
John 12:48 He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—
the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Do you actually think that the righteous requirements of the Law are met by "not doing" these things?
"Lord, all these I have observed from my youth".
The covenant at Sinai with Israel is based on this revelation:
Deuteronomy 5:24 And you said: ‘Surely the Lord our God has shown us His glory and His greatness,
and we have heard His voice from the midst of the fire. We have seen this day that God speaks with man; yet he lives.
Jeremiah 7:
22 For I did not speak to your fathers, or command them in the day that I brought them
out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices.
23 But this is what I commanded them, saying, ‘Obey My voice, and I will be your God,
and you shall be My people. And walk in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well with you.’

The Lord established a covenant previously with Abraham under which we all receive the promise.
On what basis was Abraham established by faith"
Genesis 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
So, we find that we keep the Lord's charge, his commandments statutes and laws by learning to hear His Voice, by the Spirit.

And yet, we are not required to circumcise to be in covenant. Why not?
Genesis 17:11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

Therefore, we find there is a covenant of the flesh, and of the Spirit.
John 7:
22 Moses therefore gave you circumcision (not that it is from Moses, but from the fathers),
and you circumcise a man on the Sabbath.
23 If a man receives circumcision on the Sabbath, so that the law of Moses should not be broken,
are you angry with Me because I made a man completely well on the Sabbath?
24 Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”

We are a different priesthood based on the Promised Spirit, not the land of Israel.
Matthew 12:5 Or have you not read in the law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath, and are blameless?

The covenant made at Sinai has nothing to do with the Elect but is based on the covenant with David.
The Laws of Moses were for the sanctity of the land and the people as an Ecclesia after they entered in.
Deuteronomy 4:
13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments;
and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.
14 And the Lord commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments,
that you might observe them in the land which you cross over to possess.

A brother at Corinth was sent away from the Fellowship for a time for being an adulterer. 1 Co 5
Paul did not say "Take him outside the city and stone him to death", as required by the Law. Why not?
Because that Law was for the Holy Land, not the New Covenant.

Furthermore, the Levitical Law was added because of transgressions.
Galatians 3:19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions,
till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made, appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.
This Law is done away with in Christ.

Do we actually believe that Jesus was talking about Sinai when He said we must keep His commandments?
John 12:48 He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—
the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.

So you quote that we should "obey My voice"

God spoke the Ten Commandments

So are we to ignore God's voice or obey Him according to you?

 

[Minister Monardo]

So you quote that we should "obey My voice"

God spoke the Ten Commandments

So are we to ignore God's voice or obey Him according to you?

Not the point at all.
Galatians 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Essentially a no-brainer that if you by the Spirit heed the Lord's voice,
for it is by the Holy Spirit we are led into all truth, that you will fulfill the 10.
Would the Holy Spirit lead one to commit adultery? Do I have to hear
"thou shalt not" in my head to keep the Law?
You have not heard the Voice from a burning mountain,
you have read about it and are drawing the wrong conclusions.
That was the basis for the covenant with the nation of Israel.
The covenant with the Elect is the sure mercies of David.
Truly a shame so many are unaware. You are not helping.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Not the point at all.
Galatians 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Essentially a no-brainer that if you by the Spirit heed the Lord's voice,
for it is by the Holy Spirit we are led into all truth, that you will fulfill the 10.
Would the Holy Spirit lead one to commit adultery? Do I have to hear
"thou shalt not" in my head to keep the Law?
You have not heard the Voice from a burning mountain,
you have read about it and are drawing the wrong conclusions.
That was the basis for the covenant with the nation of Israel.
The covenant with the Elect is the sure mercies of David.
Truly a shame so many are unaware. You are not helping.

Not the point? You just quoted that we should obey God's voice, but seem to be saying not to obey God's voice when it comes to God's voice asking for us to obey His law. That sounds like double talk to me. Jesus told us quoting from the OT to live by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God Mat 4:4 so it very much is the point to obey God.

If one is being led by the Spirit, they would not be breaking God's law. Disobeying God's voice is not coming from the spirit we want to follow Isa 8:20


1 John 3:24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

Acts 5:32 And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”

 

[Minister Monardo]

If one is being led by the Spirit, they would not be breaking God's law.

Exactly what I said.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Exactly what I said.

It also means obeying God's voice in Exodus 20

 

[trophy33]

Not the point? You just quoted that we should obey God's voice, but seem to be saying not to obey God's voice when it comes to God's voice asking for us to obey His law.

Quote a verse in the Bible saying God asks Gentiles or Christians to obey the Old testament law.

If you have none, you should refrain from such misleading claims.

 

[trophy33]

It also means obeying God's voice in Exodus 20

Ex 20 is not addressed to us at all. Do not ignore context.

You use verses to fit into the 19th century White's teachings. But we should read them to fit the original Christian teachings.

 

[HIM]

The suggestion of "never mind the source" immediately puts up a red flag. For conformation on the subject I'd refer it to someone I know who knows all about Eastern Church history, who would have nothing to gain or lose in giving me the unvarnished facts.

You make a lot of subjective comments without actually addressing anything posed to you objectively. For example you were posted a fact that the Eastern Church was keeping the Sabbath. Then you posted as a response, your feelings about it. Feelings don't negate fact friend.

Sad really

 

[HIM]

But now through the Rest. the Gospel of Christ we can keep it holy. If we heed to His voice.

Keep what holy? A day of the week, or our daily life in Christ?!!!

Us and thereby the day that God sanctified and deemed we not defile it.

We clearly do not cease from daily work. That work is redefined and is spiritual, not physical.

Not according to the text anywhere. Especially Hebrews 3 and 4.

There are two things being brought up in Hebrews 4. The rest which is the Gospel. And we who have entered into this rest ALSO cease from our own work AS, God did from His.

The word also means in addition and as means just like.

we are expected to make every effort to serve the Gospel daily, without regard for our personal physical needs.

Spiritual work when done in the Spirit is not neglecting our physical needs. We are nurtured and sustained by it. Moses in the mount twice and Jesus in the desert after His baptism attests to this.

The Context starts in respect to Hebrews 4 basically starts in chapter 2. Please follow along

Jesus succors, helps us that are tempted. Wherefore, because of this, we are called to consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus. Who is faithful over all His House, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and rejoicing of the joyful expectation firm unto the end. So hear His voice now when you are tempted. Harden not your hearts as in the day of temptation in the wilderness. For some who had heard did provoke and he was grieved due to their sin, so their carcasses fell in the wilderness and they did not enter into the promise land, the fruit of heeding to His voice, His rest due to their evil heart of unbelief hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. So fear lest any of us should come short of entering into His rest. For the GOSPEL this rest, the Good News was preached to us as well as unto them. But it did not profit them due to them departing from the living God, not heeding His voice because of the deceitfulness of sin. But we which have believed do enter into the rest, the Gospel and thereby are succored when we are tempted because we heed His voice. This rest for which the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. Including the works for the rest which we have believed enter, which is the Gospel.


Before we continue, Are you with me so far?

 

[HIM]

Ex 20 is not addressed to us at all. Do not ignore context.

You use verses to fit into the 19th century White's teachings. But we should read them to fit the original Christian teachings.

1Tim 1:8 The law if used lawfully is for the sinner.

So if we sin then what you say isn't true.