Flat Earthers: What They Believe and Why

[Apple Sky]

Still rather boring to listen to though.

Maybe this would suit you better, less boring

 

[Apple Sky]

Sorry folks this is the end of the road

NASA makes surprising discovery at the end of our universe

Astronomers have discovered three ultra-massive 'Red Monster' galaxies that formed within the first billion years after the Big Bang. But cosmological models say they shouldn't exist.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Gene2memE]

Sorry folks this is the end of the road

NASA makes surprising discovery at the end of our universe

Astronomers have discovered three ultra-massive 'Red Monster' galaxies that formed within the first billion years after the Big Bang. But cosmological models say they shouldn't exist.

www.dailymail.co.uk

It really isn't.

It shifts some of our current understanding about galaxy formation in the early universe. Specifically, the assumption that stellar mass baryon conversion rates for early star formation were roughly the same in the early universe as they were for later periods.

What appears to be the case is that baryon conversion rates may have been about two and a half times higher than expected (roughly 50%, against current estimates of about 17% to 25%).

EDIT: Link to the full paper in Nature https://www.nature.com/articles/s41...Gb9x32lsskKAz&tracking_referrer=www.space.com

 

[Simonides]

King James Bible
Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass? Job 37:18

New International Version
can you join him in spreading out the skies, hard as a mirror of cast bronze?

New Living Translation
he makes the skies reflect the heat like a bronze mirror. Can you do that?

Christian Standard Bible
can you help God spread out the skies as hard as a cast metal mirror?

Well then, you told him didn't you?
Have you seen the short documentary Heliosorcery? Well worth a watch.

 

[Simonides]

You are forgetting one important thing....

YOUR INTERPRETATION OF GOD'S WORD!!!

Yes, 'YOURS!'......

You interpret scripture to come out with things are not from God. God gave us a spherical earth my friend.

Step back from your keyboard and see reality, not untruths and fantastical interpretations of scripture!

Did the bible tell you the earth was a ball?
If not God or the bible, who did tell you the earth was a ball?
If you had no bible and no academicians, would your own senses have communicated to your mind that you were spinning on a ball that's moving in five different directions at the same time while rocketing through an infinite vacuum at 666,000 mph (or whatever the figure is this week)?
Remember, lying is a sin, so be honest.

 

[Apple Sky]

Have you seen the short documentary Heliosorcery? Well worth a watch.

An excellent watch. Thank you.

 

[Simonides]

I would like to read your description because it is you who are involved in the forum discussion. Also, you did not say what the Van Allen Belt is or where the name came to you from. Much is missing from your description. If you do not tell us what you mean by these words when you use them, how are we to know what you mean to be saying? You are not communicating.

That's really not fair. Did you watch the video? I did, the first one. And have it bookmarked to watch all three. The speaker could not have presented a more accurate description of biblical cosmology. I agree with every word so far. And there is no way I could have expressed my own thoughts any better. Apple is communicating, and quite well in this particular instance. It's not on Apple that you refuse to listen.

 

[Simonides]

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This video presents a false creation. Just like videos people make, stating a person must repent of sins to be saved (receiving God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation).

Which presents a false belief they have about receiving Eternal Life salvation. Where as your video, presents is a false belief about God's creation.

I haven't watched the video yet. But would you please clarify your position for me? Are you saying that repentance is unnecessary for salvation?

 

[Simonides]

It's Amazing AMAZING to me that 27 Different Early Church Writers Affirm A Geocentric Cosmology in the first 500 years of The Church and even left Literal Quotes for Us but that's not enough evidence for The Church today ....

Ambrose,
Aphrahat,
Archeleus,
Arnobius,
Athanasius of Alexandria,
Athenagoras,
Augustine,
Basil:,
John Cassian,
John Chrysostom,
Clement of Rome,
Cyril of Jerusalem,
Ephraim the Syrian,
Eusebius,
Gregory Nanzianzus,
Gregory of Nyssa,
Gregory Thaumaturgos,
Hippolytus,
Irenaeus,
Jerome,
John Damascene,
Justin Martyr,
Mathetes,
Memoirs of Edessa,
Methodius,
Tertullian,


There are others like Origen, Martin Luther and John Calvin also that came a thousand years latter.

Geocentric Early Church Writer Quotes

(Please Be Kind even if you don't agree so the thread stays open) • Ambrose: Worthy surely was he to stand forth as a man who might stay the course of the river, and who might say: “Sun, stand still,” and delay the night and lengthen the day, as though to witness his victory. Why? a blessing...

www.christianforums.com

This needs its own thread.

 

[Lost4words]

Did the bible tell you the earth was a ball?
If not God or the bible, who did tell you the earth was a ball?
If you had no bible and no academicians, would your own senses have communicated to your mind that you were spinning on a ball that's moving in five different directions at the same time while rocketing through an infinite vacuum at 666,000 mph (or whatever the figure is this week)?
Remember, lying is a sin, so be honest.

Look up into the sky. Do you see a round moon? A round sun? Round planets?

 

[Simonides]

Whew, there's an hour of my life I'm never getting back. I read the whole thread for some strange reason.
I didn't actually see a lot of debate. I did see quite a bit of condescension, condemnation, accusation, ad hominems, pejoratives, red herrings, false equivalencies, straw men, and my absolute favorite, appeals to authority.
If I'm gonna be completely honest, and I try very hard to be honest. Apple could have done a much better job presenting her(?) arguments. But in fairness, was greatly outnumbered for most of the thread, and her best arguments were completely ignored. And again, simply being honest here, the largest part of the above mentioned condescension, condemnation etc was coming from the helio centric side of the debate.

I'm not a young man, or a new believer, and I assure you, I have no delusions. I am however, completely committed to the geocentric model. And I'm in excellent company, as noted in the post above.

Now before you start telling me that these men lived in a different time long before modern scientific discoveries etc. Let me tell you something. I trust your science about as much as I trust the devil himself. And I judge your science by it's fruit. And when it comes down to putting my faith in what is clearly stated in Holy Writ, or what may of may not be implied in the text, I will adhere to the literal interpretation of scripture every single time. The bible is very much a science book, just because one cannot trust the science that God had revealed, because it does not offer enough of the desired details etc, matters not to me. The science IS there, if you can receive it.
Having said that, this is not a salvation issue, though I have read countless testimonies of our brothers and sisters who came to Christ as a direct result of learning that they had been deceived their entire lives by this heliosorcery, and thus began their journey into the Truth of Christ.

Curiously, Christ the man, almost certainly believed the Earth was the center of our cosmos, as did everyone else at that time. And on at least one occasion referred to the earth as Gods footstool, and heaven as his throne.

 

[Simonides]

Look up into the sky. Do you see a round moon? A round sun? Round planets?

No, I do not. I see circles of light. I see luminaries. Are they spherical? Perhaps. I've never been to the other side of any of them, and neither has anyone else. I have seen quite bit of computer generated imagery, and alleged photos from space. And then of course, there are the endless lies and contradictions from the so called space agencies. But hey Bro, you do you, its all good from where I'm standing, on this infinite immovable plane. Shalom Shalom

 

[d taylor]

I haven't watched the video yet. But would you please clarify your position for me? Are you saying that repentance is unnecessary for salvation?

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I sure am. The only condition God's requires to receive His free gift of Eternal Life salvation and the only way to become a permanent born again child of God is to believe in Jesus.

If you think repentance is required to become a born again child of God prove it from John 3 (Ch)

 

[Lost4words]

No, I do not. I see circles of light. I see luminaries. Are they spherical? Perhaps. I've never been to the other side of any of them, and neither has anyone else. I have seen quite bit of computer generated imagery, and alleged photos from space. And then of course, there are the endless lies and contradictions from the so called space agencies. But hey Bro, you do you, its all good from where I'm standing, on this infinite immovable plane. Shalom Shalom

Well, i guess you will remain in your bubble then.

 

[David Lamb]

No, I do not. I see circles of light. I see luminaries. Are they spherical? Perhaps. I've never been to the other side of any of them, and neither has anyone else. I have seen quite bit of computer generated imagery, and alleged photos from space. And then of course, there are the endless lies and contradictions from the so called space agencies. But hey Bro, you do you, its all good from where I'm standing, on this infinite immovable plane. Shalom Shalom

So are you saying that all the people who say they have sailed or flown around the world, all the explorers who say they have visited the South Pole without having to climb a barrier ice-wall, as well as everybody connected with moon landings and satellites orbiting the earth, are lying?

 

[d taylor]

So are you saying that all the people who say they have sailed or flown around the world, all the explorers who say they have visited the South Pole without having to climb a barrier ice-wall, as well as everybody connected with moon landings and satellites orbiting the earth, are lying?

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This person is a geocentrism believer, in other words he/she believes in a globe earth.

 

[David Lamb]

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This person is a geocentrism believer, in other words he/she believes in a globe earth.

In that case, I apologise to Simonides for my misunderstanding.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

This needs its own thread.

Check it out :

It got closed because people were flaming and spamming etc.

Maybe you can create another thread about Geocentric Early Church Writer Quotes :

Geocentric Early Church Writer Quotes

(Please Be Kind even if you don't agree so the thread stays open) • Ambrose: Worthy surely was he to stand forth as a man who might stay the course of the river, and who might say: “Sun, stand still,” and delay the night and lengthen the day, as though to witness his victory. Why? a blessing...

www.christianforums.com

 

[Job 33:6]

In that case, I apologise to Simonides for my misunderstanding.

Perhaps you can see.

There is a third option here. That the original authors of Genesis simply thought of the earth as flat (because they never had sailed the ocean or taken a rocketship to the moon).

And what you have are a lot of Christians who find this offensive (even though this is actually a well understood concept of the cultural context and traditions of all ancient nations), and you have people who further take the Bible and conclude that the earth must actually be flat because the Bible says so, without simply understanding that the Bible is not a science textbook.

It's the same thing with the Catholic churches persecution of Galileo playing itself out over and over and over again throughout history.

But in reality, it's just an ancient cosmology in the Bible because God didn't share future science with the original authors. (Nor did God need to).

The second half of this video gives some historical evidence:

 

[David Lamb]

Perhaps you can see.

There is a third option here. That the original authors of Genesis simply thought of the earth as flat (because they never had sailed the ocean or taken a rocketship to the moon).

And what you have are a lot of Christians who find this offensive (even though this is actually a well understood concept of the cultural context and traditions of all ancient nations), and you have people who further take the Bible and conclude that the earth must actually be flat because the Bible says so, without simply understanding that the Bible is not a science textbook.

It's the same thing with the Catholic churches persecution of Galileo playing itself out over and over and over again throughout history.

But in reality, it's just an ancient cosmology in the Bible because God didn't share future science with the original authors. (Nor did God need to).

The second half of this video gives some historical evidence:

What the human authors of the various books of the bible thought of the earth, or any other part of God's Creation (or, come to that, anything that they were inspired by God to write) matters little. Their human knowledge wouldn't have included God coming to earth as Man, in the Person of Jesus Christ, and dying on the cross to save sinners who believe in Him, for example. Most of the Jews of their day were expecting a sort of military Messiah to rid them of bondage to the Roman Empire. However, the bible is "God-breathed". As Paul wrote to Timothy:

“All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.” (2Ti 3:16-17 NKJV)