How many Christians believe in the rapture? Is it a common belief?

[ARBITER01]

I don't think any here are saying believers will not ascend.
The debate is concerning the timing.

Is it?

5 virgins were allowed in the marriage feast and 5 virgins had the door shut on them,.... all were supposed believers.

Matthew 25 1-13 is directly connected to the coming of The Lord (The Groom) for his bride (The Church),.... ie the rapture.

 

[d taylor]

There is no verse in the Bible that says anything about Jesus spending years "in the clouds" before coming to earth. On the contrary, Revelation says that the Lamb is in Heaven, at the Throne, as the Seven Seals are opened.

-​

You should study the Olivet Discourse Matthew 24, it is explained there. Here is just a little explanation on Jesus second advent.
Start at verse 36 it is stated no one knows and this advent is described as sudden and unexpected as the flood was in Noah's day. Jesus plainly states His coming (parousia) is sudden and unexpected

“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

But this would not be true if Jesus' coming was at the conclusion of the Great Tribulation. Many mistakenly placed Jesus' second coming at Matthew 24: 29-30. Matthew 24: 29-31 does not use Jesus' special word (parousia). Matthew 24: 29-31 dos say the tribulation is immediately followed by unparalleled heavenly events involving the sun, moon and stars. These heavenly events are followed by the sign of The Son of Man. But the word parousia is not used.

But to see Jesus coming like this is not the same as describing His descent from the presence of God (The Father). In fact it can not precisely that.
At the time that the world sees Jesus this way (sign of The Son of Man) He is already the clouds that are found in the heaven (sky). But when did His coming from God's presence begin? When in fact does the parousia really began.

The parousia begins at the time God's judgments begin. The coming will be like the flood suddenly. Therefore the coming will occur at a time when uninterrupted human life is going on as usual. Just as it was before the flood. So this means the coming of Jesus can not actually be at Matthew 24: 29-31, as this is a most sever time on earth, that is these days were not cut short no flesh would have survived.

So the parousia begins without a sign, it is only after the tribulation of thoses days is the sign of The Son of Man is seen in heaven (the sky). The term parousia also does not simply refer to an arrival, it clearly covers a span of time, the time of the tribulation.

 

[Richard T]

Didn't mean to imply a choice.
I do not believe in "pretrib rapture." I think there may be a major disappointment and perhaps a falling away of those who aren't prepared.

I have a different perspective. I think that those who are seeking the kingdom to be set up here on earth are the ones that could fall away. Call it "kingdom now," "latter rain," "dominonism,_or "third wave" they are the ones looking for a kingdom here, but what will they find? Things just going backward and soon Jewish time will arrive. Will they give up? Are they more apt to be seeking a Messiah to come now?

How can the church still be here during the tribulation when we were given the authority of Christ? God has never before mixed Jewish time with Gentile time, favoring both groups simultaneously, though some Jews do become part of the church. That mix will occur during the millennial reign after the second coming. So the pre-trib rapture seems a safe bet but I am fine if it does not occur.

I have not studied it too extensively but there does seem to be evidence that Darby was not the first rapture believer. https://truthandtidings.com/2020/07/the-rapture-a-pre-darby-rapture/
Dispensations are a good way to break down how God relates to man during each period. It is a man-made scheme but it has sound reasoning. Yes, there is some disagreement as to what counts as a dispensation, but nonetheless the subsets of biblical time signal important periods and shifts. Failing to understand these shifts will hurt believers in correctly interpreting the next shift. Many will say dispensationalists are wrong about the rapture, so their view of the end is different.

So how is one to know besides varying interpretations of certain scriptures? We have an inner witness but I also
personally base it on fruit with demonstration of the power of God. I'm old school and sincerely appreciated Oral Roberts, Kenneth Hagin, T.L. Osborn, and the early charismatics Parham, (Assembly of God forerunner) Aimee Simple McPherson, (Foursquare Gospel) and Richard Spurling (Church of God, Cleveland TN), Reinhard Bonnke (Christ for all Nations). So what happened? Why are many newer Charismatics and Pentecostals following other end-time approaches including partial-preterist, a New Apostolic Reformation approach? Mike Bickle, (IHOP) Brain Houston (Hillsong), Bill Johnson (Bethel Church), Vineyard Church (John Wimber, who was post trib rapture, but the church beliefs now seem kingdom now).
So having personally seen the old versus the new group of Pentecostals and Charismatics (of course there are far more) I would have to choose the older group of rapture believers. They saw eye to eye with Southern Baptists and ministers like BIlly Graham on the rapture. They ushered in a wave that brought healing, tongues, the gifts of the spirit and mass evangelism. Most are too young to have seen any of the earlier Pentecostals. No doubt both groups pushed the envelope but why the eschatological change for the new group? What was it that brought in the change? Why this push for a kingdom now? Here is just one example from the Vineyard beliefs.
"The Kingdom Of God And The Final Judgment We believe that God’s kingdom has come in the ministry of our Lord Jesus Christ, that it continues to come in the ministry of the Spirit through the Church, and that it will be consummated in the glorious, visible, and triumphant appearing of Christ – His return to the earth as King." file:///C:/Users/Erin/Downloads/Vineyard-Core-Values-Beliefs.pdf

I will leave anyone doubting about the rapture to look to the late David Wilkerson, the pastor who God sent to NYC gangs. Experiential yes, but why can't it be that way when the correct interpretation of the bible is questioned by so many?

 

[Dale]

I have been studying this doctrine, there is a lot of debate about pre-tribulation rapture.

But do most Christians even believe in a rapture at all? What was the consensus among believers about this.

I have floored conservative Christians by pointing out that the Southern Baptist Statement of Faith does not endorse a Rapture.



From the website of the Southern Baptist Convention:

Baptist Faith and Message 2000 - The Baptist Faith and Message

Table of Contents I. The Scriptures II. God III. Man IV. Salvation V. God's Purpose of Grace VI. The Church VII. Baptism and the Lord's Supper VIII. The Lord's Day IX. The Kingdom X. Last Things XI. Evangelism and Missions XII. Education XIII. Stewardship XIV. Cooperation XV. The Christian and…

bfm.sbc.net

The Baptist Faith and Message

Quote

X. Last Things

God, in His own time and in His own way, will bring the world to its appropriate end. According to His promise, Jesus Christ will return personally and visibly in glory to the earth; the dead will be raised; and Christ will judge all men in righteousness. The unrighteous will be consigned to Hell, the place of everlasting punishment. The righteous in their resurrected and glorified bodies will receive their reward and will dwell forever in Heaven with the Lord.

End Quote

Notice that there is no mention of a Rapture, pre-Tribulation or otherwise.

 

[Richard T]

I have floored conservative Christians by pointing out that the Southern Baptist Statement of Faith does not endorse a Rapture.



From the website of the Southern Baptist Convention:

Baptist Faith and Message 2000 - The Baptist Faith and Message

Table of Contents I. The Scriptures II. God III. Man IV. Salvation V. God's Purpose of Grace VI. The Church VII. Baptism and the Lord's Supper VIII. The Lord's Day IX. The Kingdom X. Last Things XI. Evangelism and Missions XII. Education XIII. Stewardship XIV. Cooperation XV. The Christian and…

bfm.sbc.net

The Baptist Faith and Message

Quote

X. Last Things

God, in His own time and in His own way, will bring the world to its appropriate end. According to His promise, Jesus Christ will return personally and visibly in glory to the earth; the dead will be raised; and Christ will judge all men in righteousness. The unrighteous will be consigned to Hell, the place of everlasting punishment. The righteous in their resurrected and glorified bodies will receive their reward and will dwell forever in Heaven with the Lord.

End Quote

Notice that there is no mention of a Rapture, pre-Tribulation or otherwise.

Good information that Southern Baptists leave wiggle room in their congregations on ideas like the rapture. Most however, do believe in the rapture. Southern Baptist Eschatology Beliefs | Synonym
"The most commonly held Southern Baptist eschatology is known as "pretribulational premillennialism." In this view, Jesus will return to earth but not stay. He will rapture believers, removing them from Earth. Southern Baptists believe that a seven-year-long tribulation period will follow the rapture. They believe during the tribulation period that the Antichrist will conquer Earth, and they believe that Jesus will return again after the seven years and judge the living and the dead. Finally, they believe a 1,000-year-long Kingdom of God on Earth will follow."

From Billy Graham to scholars at Liberty University, rapture believing does seem entrenched but not required. https://digitalcommons.liberty.edu/...t=pretrib_arch#:~:text=by Thomas Ice A number

 

[Dale]

Good information that Southern Baptists leave wiggle room in their congregations on ideas like the rapture. Most however, do believe in the rapture. Southern Baptist Eschatology Beliefs | Synonym
"The most commonly held Southern Baptist eschatology is known as "pretribulational premillennialism." In this view, Jesus will return to earth but not stay. He will rapture believers, removing them from Earth. Southern Baptists believe that a seven-year-long tribulation period will follow the rapture. They believe during the tribulation period that the Antichrist will conquer Earth, and they believe that Jesus will return again after the seven years and judge the living and the dead. Finally, they believe a 1,000-year-long Kingdom of God on Earth will follow."

From Billy Graham to scholars at Liberty University, rapture believing does seem entrenched but not required. https://digitalcommons.liberty.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1034&context=pretrib_arch#:~:text=by Thomas Ice A number

My parents had a pamphlet on the end times put out by Billy Graham's organization in 1950. It made no mention of rapture. My impression is that most Baptists had not heard of Dispensationalism or rapture at that time. In my experience, most Baptists had not heard of rapture before Hal Lindsay's The Late Great Planet Earth, published in 1969. Lindsay didn't make much of a case for rapture, he just assumed it was true. He said that some churches call it this and some churches call it that. He had nothing to say on why anyone would take the idea seriously.

They tell me that Billy Graham's books were ghost written for him. Graham's early books contain no mention of rapture. As I said, it wasn't a popular idea among Baptists at the time. By the late 1970's, his books do mention the rapture. The books never say that he changed his mind, they just go with the flow of what was popular at the time.

 

[Richard T]

My parents had a pamphlet on the end times put out by Billy Graham's organization in 1950. It made no mention of rapture. My impression is that most Baptists had not heard of Dispensationalism or rapture at that time. In my experience, most Baptists had not heard of rapture before Hal Lindsay's The Late Great Planet Earth, published in 1969. Lindsay didn't make much of a case for rapture, he just assumed it was true. He said that some churches call it this and some churches call it that. He had nothing to say on why anyone would take the idea seriously.

They tell me that Billy Graham's books were ghost written for him. Graham's early books contain no mention of rapture. As I said, it wasn't a popular idea among Baptists at the time. By the late 1970's, his books do mention the rapture. The books never say that he changed his mind, they just go with the flow of what was popular at the time.

Well here is Billy Graham preaching the rapture and he looks pretty young. https://www.tiktok.com/video/7200864791416540458 His website also promotes the rapture. I do not know the history of the Baptist church, but here is one example I found. I also read that Scofield's bible influenced many Baptists towards the rapture.

"The Pre-Tribulation Rapture was taught by prominent Baptist leader Morgan Edwards. His Two Academical Exercises on the Subjects Bearing the Following Titles; Millennium and Last-Novelties was published in 1744 in Philadelphia.

Morgan Edwards was one of the most prominent Baptist leaders of his day. He was the pastor of the Baptist church in Philadelphia and the founder of Brown University, the first Baptist college in America. A summary of life was featured in the Baptist Encyclopedia. He was one of the first Baptist historians of repute, his Materials Toward A History of the Baptists (1770) providing a foundation for all subsequent works." Source:

When Was the Pre-Tribulation Rapture First Taught?

When Was the Pre-Tribulation Rapture First Taught?

www.wayoflife.org

 

[Dale]

Well here is Billy Graham preaching the rapture and he looks pretty young. https://www.tiktok.com/video/7200864791416540458 His website also promotes the rapture. I do not know the history of the Baptist church, but here is one example I found. I also read that Scofield's bible influenced many Baptists towards the rapture.

"The Pre-Tribulation Rapture was taught by prominent Baptist leader Morgan Edwards. His Two Academical Exercises on the Subjects Bearing the Following Titles; Millennium and Last-Novelties was published in 1744 in Philadelphia.

Morgan Edwards was one of the most prominent Baptist leaders of his day. He was the pastor of the Baptist church in Philadelphia and the founder of Brown University, the first Baptist college in America. A summary of life was featured in the Baptist Encyclopedia. He was one of the first Baptist historians of repute, his Materials Toward A History of the Baptists (1770) providing a foundation for all subsequent works." Source:

When Was the Pre-Tribulation Rapture First Taught?

When Was the Pre-Tribulation Rapture First Taught?

www.wayoflife.org

I don't believe that Morgan Edwards taught a rapture separate from the Second Coming. He was premillenial but that means that he believed that the Second Coming is before the Millennium. Many ministers today teach a rapture that occurs at the same time as the Second Coming, but that is not the same as believing that there is Rapture followed by seven years of Tribulation followed by the Second Coming.
There is no evidence that anyone taught a rapture separate from the Second Coming before 1830. Morgan Edwards died in 1792.

 

[RileyG]

I don’t.

For those who do, what if the rapture already happened and you weren’t chosen? What then?

 

[Richard T]

I don't believe that Morgan Edwards taught a rapture separate from the Second Coming. He was premillenial but that means that he believed that the Second Coming is before the Millennium. Many ministers today teach a rapture that occurs at the same time as the Second Coming, but that is not the same as believing that there is Rapture followed by seven years of Tribulation followed by the Second Coming.
There is no evidence that anyone taught a rapture separate from the Second Coming before 1830. Morgan Edwards died in 1792.

Here the exact words of Morgan Edwards: "I say, somewhat more —; because the dead saints will be raised, and the living changed at Christ’s “appearing in the air” (I Thes. iv. 17); and this will be about three years and a half before the millennium, as we shall see hereafter: but will he and they abide in the air all that time? No: they will ascend to paradise, or to some one of those many “mansions in the father’s house” (John xiv. 2), and so disappear during the foresaid period of time. The design of this retreat and disappearing will be to judge the risen and changed saints; for “now the time is come that judgment must begin,” and that will be “at the house of God” (I Pet. iv. 17)... (p. 7; the spelling of all Edwards quotes have been modernized"
3.5 years, I guess he is mid-trib. Source: https://digitalcommons.liberty.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1043&context=pretrib_arch

 

[Dale]

Well here is Billy Graham preaching the rapture and he looks pretty young. https://www.tiktok.com/video/7200864791416540458 His website also promotes the rapture. I do not know the history of the Baptist church, but here is one example I found. I also read that Scofield's bible influenced many Baptists towards the rapture.

"The Pre-Tribulation Rapture was taught by prominent Baptist leader Morgan Edwards. His Two Academical Exercises on the Subjects Bearing the Following Titles; Millennium and Last-Novelties was published in 1744 in Philadelphia.

Morgan Edwards was one of the most prominent Baptist leaders of his day. He was the pastor of the Baptist church in Philadelphia and the founder of Brown University, the first Baptist college in America. A summary of life was featured in the Baptist Encyclopedia. He was one of the first Baptist historians of repute, his Materials Toward A History of the Baptists (1770) providing a foundation for all subsequent works." Source:

When Was the Pre-Tribulation Rapture First Taught?

When Was the Pre-Tribulation Rapture First Taught?

www.wayoflife.org

I listened to the Billy Graham video and the rapture that he is talking about happens at the same time as the general resurrection, where Christians will be resurrected and go to heaven. That is not the same as the Dispensationalist rapture, where living Christians go to heaven and the dead stay in the ground. The Dispensationalist rapture is followed by seven years of Tribulation followed by the Second Coming.

One of the objections to the Dispensationalist rapture is that Jesus says that no one, not even the angels of heaven, knows the day of His coming. Yet if the rapture and the Second Coming are separated by seven years, once the rapture has happened, anyone could calculate the time of the Second Coming. Even those who do not follow Jesus could figure out the time of His coming. I have told that to Dispensationists and they wiggle out by saying that it isn't exactly seven years. Which doesn't make much sense to me.

 

[Richard T]

Perhaps later Graham amended to the pre-trib view. But it does not matter much when it comes to dispensationalism.
"While most dispensationalists believe in a pre-tribulational rapture, some hold to other rapture views such as mid-tribulational, pre-wrath, and post-tribulational. Thus, the pre-tribulational rapture view is not an essential doctrine of Dispensationalism even though most dispensationalists believe it. "
Source: Dispensational Theology

 

[Guojing]

I listened to the Billy Graham video and the rapture that he is talking about happens at the same time as the general resurrection, where Christians will be resurrected and go to heaven. That is not the same as the Dispensationalist rapture, where living Christians go to heaven and the dead stay in the ground. The Dispensationalist rapture is followed by seven years of Tribulation followed by the Second Coming.

One of the objections to the Dispensationalist rapture is that Jesus says that no one, not even the angels of heaven, knows the day of His coming. Yet if the rapture and the Second Coming are separated by seven years, once the rapture has happened, anyone could calculate the time of the Second Coming. Even those who do not follow Jesus could figure out the time of His coming. I have told that to Dispensationists and they wiggle out by saying that it isn't exactly seven years. Which doesn't make much sense to me.

Which dispy you know actually said there are exactly 7 years between the rapture and the 2nd coming?

 

[Dale]

Which dispy you know actually said there are exactly 7 years between the rapture and the 2nd coming?

Hal Lindsay certainly said that, and in my experience most Christians had never heard of the Rapture before Hal Linday’s The Late Great Planet Earth. It is true that some teach a mid-Tribulation Rapture, halfway through the Tribulation. Some teach that the worse part of the Tribulation will be the second half but God will spare believers this experience by removing them from the earth. Believing in a 3 ½ year gap between the Rapture and the (rest of) the Second Coming has the same logical difficulty as a seven year gap. Once the Rapture happens, anyone, including those who oppose Jesus Christ, could calculate the time of the Second Coming. We know that isn’t true.

Here are a few examples of those who teach a seven year period between Rapture and Second Coming.

“According to biblical prophecy, the Tribulation is a seven-year period that will begin immediately following the Rapture.”

What Is the Tribulation?


“Beginning with the Rapture of the Church and ending with the Second Coming of Jesus is a seven-year period on earth referred to as the Great Tribulation.”

Great Tribulation—What Happens After the Rapture — Harrison House


“The tribulation is a future seven-year period when God will finish His discipline of Israel and finalize His judgment of the unbelieving world. The church, comprised of all who have trusted in the person and work of the Lord Jesus, will not be present during the tribulation (Got Questions Ministries takes a pretribulational approach to eschatology). The church will be removed from the earth in an event called the rapture …”

What is the end times tribulation? How do we know the tribulation will last seven years? | GotQuestions.org

 

[Guojing]

Hal Lindsay certainly said that, and in my experience most Christians had never heard of the Rapture before Hal Linday’s The Late Great Planet Earth.

I suppose he did not used any scripture for this claim?

 

[Hazelelponi]

I have been studying this doctrine, there is a lot of debate about pre-tribulation rapture.

But do most Christians even believe in a rapture at all? What was the consensus among believers about this.

No, I don't have a rapture belief.

 

[Dale]

-​

You should study the Olivet Discourse Matthew 24, it is explained there. Here is just a little explanation on Jesus second advent.
Start at verse 36 it is stated no one knows and this advent is described as sudden and unexpected as the flood was in Noah's day. Jesus plainly states His coming (parousia) is sudden and unexpected

“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

But this would not be true if Jesus' coming was at the conclusion of the Great Tribulation. Many mistakenly placed Jesus' second coming at Matthew 24: 29-30. Matthew 24: 29-31 does not use Jesus' special word (parousia). Matthew 24: 29-31 dos say the tribulation is immediately followed by unparalleled heavenly events involving the sun, moon and stars. These heavenly events are followed by the sign of The Son of Man. But the word parousia is not used.

But to see Jesus coming like this is not the same as describing His descent from the presence of God (The Father). In fact it can not precisely that.
At the time that the world sees Jesus this way (sign of The Son of Man) He is already the clouds that are found in the heaven (sky). But when did His coming from God's presence begin? When in fact does the parousia really began.

The parousia begins at the time God's judgments begin. The coming will be like the flood suddenly. Therefore the coming will occur at a time when uninterrupted human life is going on as usual. Just as it was before the flood. So this means the coming of Jesus can not actually be at Matthew 24: 29-31, as this is a most sever time on earth, that is these days were not cut short no flesh would have survived.

So the parousia begins without a sign, it is only after the tribulation of thoses days is the sign of The Son of Man is seen in heaven (the sky). The term parousia also does not simply refer to an arrival, it clearly covers a span of time, the time of the tribulation.

Dtaylor: “You should study the Olivet Discourse Matthew 24, it is explained there. Here is just a
little explanation on Jesus second advent.”

Dtaylor quotes: “Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. Two
women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left.”

I am familiar with the Olivet discourse. The problem is that the Dispensationalists have “taken”
and “left” completely backwards.

John Gill (1697-1771) wrote famous commentary on the Bible. It is difficult to exaggerate his
learning for the time that he lived. In John Gill’s commentary, he comments on the Olivet
discourse while interpreting I Thessalonians 4:5:
<< … in the days of the son of man, which are said to be like those of Noah and of Lot: and these
are said to "remain", or to be "left", these will be a remnant, the residue and remainder of the
election of grace, and will be such as have escaped the fury of antichrist and his followers, or of
the persecutors of the saints... >>

It is those who are “left” who are still alive because they have escaped a gruesome death, by
God’s grace. Gill comments directly on Matthew 24:40, coming to the same conclusion. The
passage is about the destruction of the Temple and of Jerusalem by the Roman army in 70 AD.

<< Matthew 24:40
Then shall two be in the field
About their proper business, of husbandry, ploughing, or sowing, or any other rural
employment: the one shall be taken;
not by the preaching of the Gospel, into the kingdom of God, or Gospel dispensation; though such
a distinction God makes, by the ministry of the word, accompanied by his Spirit and power; nor
by angels, to meet Christ in the air, and to be introduced into his kingdom and glory; but by the
eagles, the Roman army, and either killed or carried captive by them: and the other left;
not in a state of nature and unregeneracy, as many are, to whom the Gospel is preached; nor with
devils at the last day, to be thrust down by them into the infernal regions; but by the Romans,
being by some remarkable providence, or another, delivered out of their hands .. >>

“Taken” means “killed” or taken captive, while “left” means “delivered.”

Links

https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/gills-exposition-of-the-bible/1-thessalonians-4-

15.html

Matthew 24:40 - Bible Verse Meaning and Commentary

What does Matthew 24:40 mean? Read commentary on this popular Bible verse and understand the real meaning behind God's Word using John Gill's Exposition of the Bible.

www.biblestudytools.com

 

[Dale]

I suppose he did not used any scripture for this claim?

Guojing, you have not given your position on rapture. I'm not the one who claims that Hal Lindsay knows what he is talking about. His logic is very sloppy.

 

[Guojing]

Guojing, you have not given your position on rapture. I'm not the one who claims that Hal Lindsay knows what he is talking about. His logic is very sloppy.

Since he did not use any scripture for his claim, he won't be a dispy.

That is my point.

 

[Dan Perez]

No, I don't have a rapture belief.

I will says that there is not Greek word for the word , RAPTURE in the bible .

Christ is COMING // PAROUSIA of out Lord , 2 Thess 2:1

In 2 Thess 2:3 EXCEPT the DEPARTURE should come FIRST // PROTOS , then the Man of Sin should be REVEALED , the SON

of DESTRUCTION , or Perdition , that means it PRE - TRI all the way .

There are many other words for CHRIST'S COMING , 1 Thess 4:17 , CAUGHT AWAY // HARPAZO .

Also in Gal 1:4 , is the word RESCUE // EXAIREO and is in the Subjunctive Mood .

Only those believeing what Paul , DISPENSATIONALISM are Pre - Tri , Pre- MILLENNIAL .

dan p